Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

jawanda

No, by my reasoning, 70/9 means 70 total litres, or 18.5 gallons for the wagon, and 80/10 means 80 total litres for the sedan. (I realize there is a slight difference in how the data is presented, but they both give capacity, including reserve.)

cce182 - It is a generic E-class manual, which is why I don't trust it much, but my salesman, and Richard's salesman and tech dept. claim 21.1 gallons. I think they are wrong, and I'm getting more and more tempted to just run dry and find out once and for all. Going on a road trip this weekend(along with probably 100 million others) and may just do it.

-AJ

vadimb

I had a similar problem with my 2000 E320 (13K miles): BAS/ABS/ESP lights were on, computer reported 3 malfunctions; no malfunctions reported after restart. Happened twice in 2 days. Came to the service center for troubleshooting.
They indicated that the steering angle sensor has to be replaced, ordered a part and scheduled appt in 3 weeks. Assured that vehicle safety and performance are not in doubt.
Anybody having similar problems?

alirob

I had the exact problem on my e320 wagon only last week. The cause was that I inadvertently hit the BAS/ABS/ESP button on the center console. After a few minutes of driving the computer began alerting me that there was a malfunction. After turning off the engine and restarting (rebooting) everything was back to normal.

srusmantijo

Has anyone heard about the new 2003 E320/400? I checked with the local MB dealer; they told me to call back in another 9 months or so.
Do you know if the car is available sooner through the European delivery? Thanks.

rg6

I have read enough posts that talk about what to clean the seats with and what to polish the exterior with. My question is, what should I clean the side panels in the doors and other plastic parts of the interior? I have found that in my Java interior fabric/felt areas, there are a lot of scuff marks (mostly from shoes). Anybody have any pointers on what works well (other than taking it to the cleaners, I mean detailers?)
Thanks.
RG

drew_

vadimb

Alirob,

Thanks for your reply. Experience you had was quite similar to mine with the only difference: the electronic stability system (ESP button) was on all the time.
I am not sure why this button exists at all. Probably someone needs this system off time to time?

rab5

Just finished a 2200 mile trip. About 1/2 was 75-80 mph with airconditioner on.The other half maybe 65 mph w/o a/c. Total mpg for trip was 30.3. Car is 1999 E320.

wniel

I have been using Simple Green on a clean rag. Rub the affected area and the dirty scuff marks clean right off. I was told that this is what my dealership used to clean the same. I have been using this for a year now since I took delivery of my E430 with ash interior.
I hope that this helps.
Wally

habitat1

I test drove a pair E320 Wagons (RWD & 4-matic) yesterday and spoke at length with the GM of a local Washington DC area dealership.

He indicated that the new 2003 E-class will likely be hitting US showrooms in April-June of next year. Wagons and AWD models may be delayed slightly. European delivery will not likely be available until after cars first start showing up here. For example, the CLK and new S class model was not available by ED until several months after they first hit US showrooms.

For what it's worth, he indicated that the significant discounts currently available for remaining 2001 E-class cars will probably continue almost uninterupted through the 2002 models when they are available in a couple of months. I was nearly prepared to pay $44,800 for a brand new E320 Wagon yesterday, just to get the approximately $6,700 discount of MSRP ($2,200 under invoice). However, when I indicated that my preference was for a different color combination w/ some different options, the GM pulled me aside and sent me home with his assurance that I would be able to get a new 2002 model exactly as I wanted it at a similar savings in 4-5 months. Pretty classy move compared to 98% of the other dealership personnel I have dealt with over the years.

mbdriver

COMAND CD Map # 7 Trade

- Sorry I misposted a week or so ago regarding trade of out-of-date CD. I'm in the D.C. area and have last year's CD Map # 8 for the Mid-Atlantic. I'd be glad to swap you for your out-of-date CD # 7. My e-mail address is included in my profile -- let me know.

mbdriver

I'm also in the Washington D.C. area and would be extremely interested in which dealership had the "class act GM." If you can respond but prefer to keep things private, please e-mail me. I have a '00 E320 and won't be in the market for a new MB soon, but you have my attention in this! There's one particular dealership here that seems to be generating a lousy reputation and working hard at it! I didn't buy my Benz there and won't deal with them at all. But it would be refreshing to learn that the class act GM is theirs and may turn things around. I also understand that this particular dealership was sold recently to new ownership.

cce182

I would strongly advise against deliberately running your car to fuel exhaustion.

Reason: While I am not familiar with the specific design of M-B fuel systems, most Bosch-designed fuel-injected cars have a high-pressure electric fuel pump between the tank and the engine. A pressure relief valve returns the unused fuel back to the tank in a closed-loop system, with the fuel for the engine drawn off the pressure manifold as commanded by the engine controller. This electric pump is actually submerged in fuel (yes, there's electricity in contact with the fuel): the bearings in this pump get their lubrication from the fuel. Running such a system dry causes the lubrication to be lost and can quickly compromise the bearings in the pump. The pump may run OK when the engine is refueled, but the bearing friction could be higher, causing the pump to draw more current, and eventually causing the pump to fail, its fuse to fail, or the relay that controls it to burn up. IMHO, such an experiment is not worth the informationl gained from it. Do what you want, but I know people to whom this has happened.

varig

Do both the E320 and C320 share the same engine? If so, does the C handle better than the E since it is a smaller car? Any pros & cons for either would be much appreciated. Thanks.

walto

After a cold start the air injection pump is clearly audible as a kind of high-pitched, high-speed "electric motor" sound. This pump is injecting fresh air into the exhaust manifold to increase the heat and get the catalytic converter up to operating temperature quickly. This will stop after two or three minutes and is not audible on a warm start. Converter temperature is also the reason that the shift pattern is different after a cold start (lower gears are held longer).

cce182

Why not go to your friendly M-B dealer and try them?

I'm sure any dealer would be happy to accomodate you, especially if your ploy is to drive there in your Buick Park Avenue, shop for a C, try it out, surmise out loud that "it might be a little small - could I try the E?" Sales people get all excited about upgrading customers (downgrading scares the crap out of 'em), and you'll get the fun of driving two cars. Besides, not all contributors to this board (including me) are trusted experts in handling analysis - - you need to try for yourself. I sure would before I dropped $40k or more on a car. Make an afternoon out of it!

Both cars, I would expect, are pretty good at handling. But, I'd not be surprised that the C is more "spritely" than the E, which in turn is more spritely the S. All that inertia!

I think the choice is really size and usage. I test any car I'm contemplating for purchase by getting in the front seat (I'm 6'0" tall) setting the driving position to my liking, and then I get in the back seat, assessing the rear seat for entry ease, legroom, and comfort. Then, I size up the trunk, which isn't all that generous in ANY M-B cars compared to their U.S. Competition. All this depends on whether you ever carry anyone in the back seat or fill the trunk, tho - and if you don't, then your comparing the wrong cars - look at a CLK.

shepherd5

I am looking at a 97 E420 -- 5 years old (bought in May 96) and 90k miles.

What are some of the problems that owners have experience with this model -- and how much was the damage to your wallets?

Would you even touch this car? It seems very well maintained -- about 70k of the 90k was driven in the first 30 months -- the car sat in the garage pretty much all of '99 and '00.

The car looks like it is in excellent condition --MBZ dealer serviced, full AMG body kit and exhaust -- 18" Carlsson 3 piece and an excellent after market stereo.

I am deathly afraid of the high mileage though -- given that I'd put in another 18k a year.

Any thoughts?

vs4

Two things have been bothering me about my 2001 E430. Steering column is tilted to left and the car pulls towards right.

I showed this to my dealer and he told me that steeing column is like that because of the safety reasons and he showed me another E320 in the lot and that also had its steering column tilted to the left and pulling towards to the right he blamed on tires(GoodYear Eagle F1) and the roads.

I was not satisfied by there answer so I had my car looked at by a Canadian dealer(I live close to the border). The machanic did not know why the steering column was tilted to the left, he said it could be because of the design of USA based E-class as the Canadian E class's steering column was preety much centered. Pulling to the right - they did the alignment and checked the tire pressure but it still pulls to the right.

So I do not know if the Steering column should be tilted to the left as some E-class(Canadian model) have it centered and some do not(USA model). Pulling to the right - Is it because of the GoodYear Eagle F1 tires or/and roads or something else wrong.

In order to verify if your E-class's steering column is tilted to left is by checking the area where the column meets the dash area. Try to put fingers between the space to the left and to the right - you may find out that the space between both sides is not equal (if the column is tilted to the left).

Please advice what should I do, take it to another dealer or all of this is by design and just live with it.

Thanks.

mck5770

It is ironic that you posted this message now, as I just realized (after over a 1.5 years of driving my e430) that my steering column also VERY SLIGHTLY tilted to the left (less than 10 degrees, or, say 2/60 of circle). It has not bothered me at all as there is NO pulling to any side, and I don't think there should be!

saamg

Are there going to be any rebates on the 2001's now that the 2002's are on their way.

dwgrizzle

Anyone know of a source for a one piece floor
mat for the rear seat of a 01 E320? The hump
in the middle is going to be impossible to keep
clean when my 2 year old twins start riding in
the car and not the SUV! Also are there any
good accessory sites out there?

kenyee

CatchAll may make one for the E-class. I have it for my M-class and it's great (except the front's are fit for the 98/99 instead of my 01 model so it bulges a little on the passenger side. The rear covers the hump nicely.

tendons

vs4...the E55's steering column is perhaps 2-3 degrees off centered, to the left, not horribly annoying and I've really gotten used to it, but it's there.
My car drifts to the right, not pulling, taking about 2-300 feet to get into the next lane. I've got the 18 inch tires, Dunlop sp9000 and wondered if that might be the reason. Alignment they said was fine.
It's also not really annoying, but at times a little. The roads are built slightly slanting to the right for drainage purposes, but even when I ride over the center there is still that drift.

landinggear

Thanks for the tip. Do these folks have a website?

habitat1

Re: 2001 "rebates" - check out my previoue post #1911. According to my dealer, there is a $2,000 cash back incentive (as of late June) on 2001 E's; however, he speculated that the incentives will likely continue straight through 2002 models in preparation for the new 2003 cars which will hit showrooms in about 10 months.

Therefore, you may want to wait for a 2002 model and still get a good deal.

jawanda

cce- Thanks for the info/advice, I had no idea how the pump etc. works. I wasn't really planning on running dry.

For my second fill on my wagon, it again stopped at approx. 17.5 gallons, and seemed full after I gave the pump handle a couple of squeezes. Then, I decided what the hell, and I'll fill 'til it overflows, so I lifted the nozzle out until it was barely passed the fuel filler flap thingy, and proceeded to pump away until I added another 2.8 gallons. The indicator still said 18.4 gallons, so I guess I'll have that fixed/replaced soon. I drove about 110 miles before the display changed to 18.2 gallons.
It seems strange that many(most? all?) wagons are calibrated this way, based on the few data points in this group. Thanks for all the responses and info.

-AJ

drew_

Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/mercedeschat.html


Drew
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simonc1

I have a brand new 2001 E320 and the steering wheel slightly vibrates when the car is stopped at intersections. I believe the actual vibration is coming from the engine and the vibration disappears when the car starts moving or when I put the gear to parking.

Please advise.
Thanks

drew_

Topic: July 3rd: "Ford & Firestone - Major Malfunction... or Media Monster?"

varig

Has the E Class had a good reliability record? I don't want to pay $$$$$$ only to have problem$ .
thanks

cce182

Saw your post and would make the following comments.

Sedan Gas tank is behind the rear seat, standing vertically. The filler neck for the fuel is probably less than one foot long. When it's full, it's full.

Since behind-the-seat isn't a design option for a wagon gas tank, I would assume the wagon tank is either under the floor in front of the rear suspension(safest place), or (gasp!) a "saddle bag" in one rear fender (I'd not like this at all - recall the GM truck saddlebag gastank flap with NTHSB and ABC news that was in the press a few years ago).

All gas tanks have an expansion space designed into them since gas expands as it gets hot and the gas is cool in the underground tanks at the filling station. A design that spills gas out of a full tank in hot weather is considered uncouth by the EPA. I think you filled the expansion space (2.5 gallons is less than 1/3 cubic foot) when you forced the additional fuel into the tank. The manual warns you against this in any event. There have been numerous posts on this board in the past about fuel spitting out of the tank and getting all over you and the car when they've pulled the nozzle out of the filler pipe. Bad deal when it happens. Whether these were only Wagons, I could not say.

If the indicator didn't change after you started stuffing gas in after the first full-shutoff, I'd bet you were filling this expansion space where the gas gauge, by design, has no need to make a measurement. If you dribble it in slowly enuf, you can probably fill this expansion space, but again, the manual says not to do it.

I'd still get the dealer M-B, or whoever to tell me how much gas my car is supposed to be carrying, then decide whether it's broke and needs fixin'.

I'd bet on the following outcome at this point.

1. Capacity is 70/9 per earlier discussions.
2. Tank gauge assumes full at 18.4 and is not designed to show higher.
3. Your gauge is working fine.

Now I know why I didn't get a wagon.
1. Only available with V6 (I got a 430)
2. Gas tank is smaller than in sedan.

BTW, there are very few American or Japanese cars that carry more than 18.5 gallons, and at 21/30, the mileage. and thus the range, on the E320 ain't bad.

Now, if I could just buy this car with a ski-bag thru the rear seat armrest, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, sedan gas tank mounting position prevents this.

CCE

mbnut1

While you may think it unfortunate that the gas tank location blocks a ski bag pass thru, it is located there to give the tank the maiximum protection in the event of a collison.

prevostxlv

MBUSA of NA came back to me Tuesday and said that the sedan and wagon have the same tank 21.1 -- 18.5 plus a 2.6 reserve. I laid all the thoughts out to them but they insist it is 21.1, whether you buy a sedan or a wagon (MY2001). Hmmm.... will any one know the true story.

jawanda

Interesting info on expansion, etc. It's too much of a nuisance to dribble gas into the tank, so I won't be doing that too often. That said, 12-15% expansion sounds like a lot. I would imagine the sedan should have a similar expansion space.
Regarding engine, the 320 is surprisingly peppy, but I would certainly have opted for a 430 if they offered it here, or maybe even an E55(both of which are availabe in Europe). I needed the extra seating option, as I got rid of my SUV. The E320 is faster than most sport-utes...

Regarding milage, my wagon is getting lousy mileage, but it is brand new, and I did a fair bit of driving with a Rocketbox and bicycle on top, which has obvious impact, but 23mpg highway is very poor, I hope it improves dramatically under normal conditions. With 18.4 gal and 23 mpg, I'm looking at a 400mi. range, but if I get upper 20's I'm looking at 500mi. or so. Much better.

-AJ

41864

I have a 99' E320 4 matic. My first trip in it(2000 miles round trip) I got 24 mpg @ an average speed of about 75mph. It only had about 6000 miles on it at that time. I just took another trip last week (1500 miles round trip) 31.8 mpg @ average speed of 75 mph but I have 26,000 on speedometer this time. It will get better.

albell

The MPG on the wagon does get better with more miles on the odometer. I have a 2000 with approximately 15k miles and now average 25 mpg overall and 28+ mpg on most highway trips. For the first 10,000 miles, the average was considerably lower, about 22 mpg overall. I consider this pretty outstanding, given the size, weight and capacity of the vehicle, whatever the tank capacity may be...

bargamon

When I have my ski box on top of my ML, It drags 1-2mpg off. ML 320 gets 19 in mixed use, 23 on highway with A/c. I do believe outside tempeture has some to do with it. Really hot or cold weather effects many things.

My e-430 with 8k now gets 21.5mpg in mixed use. About 24-25 on highway. It got much better after 5k.

mbnut1

Pulled this from the C-Class forum. It was claimed that that it isn't a photoshop rendition.

http://members7.clubphoto.com/andreas402309/Jul_4_2001/

jawanda

Thanks albell and 41864.
I expected an improvement, and I hope it's comparable to your experience. Virtually all cars improve from new, and I just didn't know how much.
I agree that upper 20's mileage is great for a car of this size, weight, and power. The brochure claims that in 2000, it had the highest EPA mileage for a 6-cyclinder car in the US. Pretty impressive, considering 221 hp and 3991 lbs!

habitat1

Need a feel good comparison? We are looking to trade in our Isuzu Trooper for a 2002 E320 4-matic Wagon. The Trooper has averaged barely 14 miles per gallon since new and the very best we've ever gotten is 19 at 70 mph with a tailwind! Friends of ours have a 2000 Wagon (RWD) that averages 24 mpg and a 1999 E300 Turbodiesel that averages over 30.

drew_

vs4

Does anybody know if you can order different kind of windows on E-class from factory. Is tinted-window available as as option or you just get clear window with an E-class.

Thanks for your help.

gadom

I just got an E320 with only the E2 package. I was wondering if there are any reasonably priced after market cd players compatible with the car. Also, any other good after market sites for comfort/convieninence items. Thanks. FYI, I leased for 1k under invoice,39 mo, residual 32,067, MF .00359. Only one dealer in Atlanta would even talk to me about a deal under invoice.

drdan976

I have a 1998 E320 and am looking for insight on if this can be done. The mirrors will physically fit, and I think the hardest thing to do is to route 2 more wires. Has anyone done this??

email me directly or post if you have any further info.

Dan Wang
drdan976@aol.com

gsenthil

I am thinking of buying a used E or LS400. Budget <12k. Have driven a couple of 1990-1993 Lexus LS400s and they are all well maintained and drive fast smooth & silent. I know they have a very good reliability record.

Have been warned about 190E so thats outta question.

I need some info in 1990-1995 E Class. I am more interested in reliability. I like the body style, especially the black/gray combination. How much can I expect to spend on maintenance on E class cars with 100k+ mileage.

Also, whats the difference between 300E and E320 apart from engine size and nomenclature?

Thanks for your help.

Senthil
Phoenix AZ

mbnut1

My spin of the 90-95 E-Class is as follows. In Barretts' illustrated buyers guide he refers to this chassis as the best used Mercedes value period. Some people feel this may be the best car Mercedes ever made.
I would get a 91 or newer because they changed the transmission to start in first gear and lowered the rear end ratio to give quieter cruising. In 93 the engines were changed from single overhead cam motors to dual overhead cam. The newer 3.2 liter motor has close to 220 HP vs 180 for the single OHC motor. There have some reports of head gaskets leaking oil with the dual OHC motors. The single OHC motor usually needs the head redone around 180K miles. The bottom ends are very solid. In '94 they changed the designation from 300E to E320 and made changes to the hood and trunk styling. They replaced the chrome radiator shell to make the E-Class look more like the S-Class of that era.
Mercedes continuously improves their cars so the later the better. These are wonderful, solid cars. Mercedes in every sense of the word.

drew_

My family has owned four of these W123 and W124 vehicles. Three sedans and a wagon, the very first one being a 200-series (overseas) and the others all 300-series. They were great cars and all had over 150K kms on the odometer when we sold them, but they did have their fair share of small problems...radiator, oil leaks (probably due to the head gasket problem), speedometer dying, etc.

When the current W210 E-class came out and we tested it, it was just heads and shoulders over the predecessor, both interior and exterior-wise. Took a while to get used to the radical (but retro) goggle-eyed quad headlamps though! I absolutely hated it when it first came out since it looked so different from what I was used to for an entire decade. I felt that the turn signals built into the upper part of the low beam headlamps were especially alarming. However, I think it looks great now though, and the W211, if that picture is real, is even better.

As for the best MB ever made, I would probably have to say that it's the previous generation S-class. However, it represented an era where MB vehicles were expensive as heck (probably why they were so prestigeous), big and bulky, and way over-engineered. Some more traditional and long-time MB buyers, such as my father, feel that this is a good thing. Personally, I love the new S-class a heck of a lot more. ;-p


Drew
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jnee

Hi Drew. Just sent you an email but posting this just in case you might see this first. I'm about to make a deposit on the 2001 E320 4matic(way out of my league) tomorrow. I keep my cars for up to 10years. Do you think the 4matic may cause me problems later on? Any advice or opinion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

dkatlanta

For those who have praised the improvements generated by upgrading to 17" wheels and tires, can you say which wheels you've purchased? Are the wheels you purchased 7-1/2" or 8" wide?

drew_

Well, all I can say is that since the current 4-matic system has made its debut (in 1997) on the M-class and the E-class, I have heard and read of no major problems with the system here in Town Hall and or elsewhere. I think that's pretty good, don't you? The nice thing about the system is that it's not very complex but yet it works extremely well in all conditions.

FYI, over 50% of the E-classes sold in Canada are equipped with the 4-matic system.


Drew
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