Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

ruking1

My Honda Civic 4 door automatic came without a tach.

andysandiego

I like my '04 Civic EX auto sedan, BUT recently learned that a new Accord LX would cost only about $1,500 more. Wouldn't that have been a better buy - with 5 speed auto, double wishbones front and rear, 160 h.p., EPA 24/34 very close to the Civic's, and more? Edmunds "True Cost to Own" states that the Accord LX would cost only $1,447 more over 5 years! I drove the Accord the other day and it definitely feels like it has better acceleration, and I think a better ride.

What do you think?
Andy

anonymousposts

If you don't want the sunroof or alloys then you may have been happier with the Accord LX. But if you like your Civic enjoy the sunroof and the few extra MPG and don't worry about it.

ruking1

Off the top, having just done the analysis etc., I would have to say no. Given the identical situation and the line up of models both in the Civic and Accord line, I got the 2004 Civic 4 door auto vp. (value package) If I had gotten the Civic LX, off the top of my head, I think that would be an extra 1500, just for the trim line "upgrade" The sales folks were more than cordial in recommending the upscale escalator to the Accord. This in your case would be an additional 1500 dollars. If we add this up we are now talking about 3,000 dollars!?

It is a bit like comparing apples to oranges, but that does not mean it is not a valid comparison, especially from an economic or dollar point of view.

While I can't tell you what SHOULD be important to you over the whole plethora of variables, perhaps the question: does the money (1500-3000) feel better in your pocket invested at 13% over 5 years (plus 1125 to 1925) vs what you are actually getting for the money expended and the interest rate (3%) you would PAY over 5 years (-45 to -90 per year x 5years or minus-225-450?

Another structural thing is the difference in mph over 5 years 24/34 (as you say, for the Accord) vs 29/38 epa for the Civic. So say you are an average driver that puts in 12,000-15,000 miles per year. Over 5 years that would be 60,000-75,000 miles.

So at todays price of 2.25 just the differences in the epa mpg ratings can cost you an extra 522-1212 dollars. You also might want to compare the difference per year in insurance, tax, license, etc.

So for example, I am on track to put on 26,000 miles per year. Again the savings alone over 5 years in mpg at 2.25 per gal can be 180-418 per year x 5years = 405-2092.

weiser

I'm wondering if there should be any difference in a Honda Civic made in Turkey, versus one made in England. Our dealer carries both, and the one from Turkey costs less. Is this just because of labor and shipping costs as they claim, or should I be concerned?

andysandiego

I like my '04 Civic EX auto sedan, BUT recently learned that a new Accord LX would cost only about $1,500 more. Wouldn't that have been a better buy - with 5 speed auto, double wishbones front and rear, 160 h.p., EPA 24/34 very close to the Civic's, and more? Edmunds "True Cost to Own" states that the Accord LX would cost only $1,447 more over 5 years! I drove the Accord the other day and it definitely feels like it has better acceleration, and I think a better ride.

What do you think?
Andy

backy

Hmmm... if I were the president of Honda and I could make Civics in Turkey that were the same quality as those made in the UK, and they would cost less even considering shipping charges, guess where I would make all of them? Or if they were the same quality, why not charge just as much for the Turkey-made cars and make more profit?

blueiedgod

I like my '04 Civic EX auto sedan, BUT recently learned that a new Accord LX would cost only about $1,500 more. Wouldn't that have been a better buy - with 5 speed auto, double wishbones front and rear, 160 h.p., EPA 24/34 very close to the Civic's, and more? Edmunds "True Cost to Own" states that the Accord LX would cost only $1,447 more over 5 years! I drove the Accord the other day and it definitely feels like it has better acceleration, and I think a better ride.

What do you think?
Andy

You are looking at it from a wrong perspective. Were you in the market for a compact car or a midsize car? If you were in the market for a compact, then the Accord was not in your sights.

If you were in the market for a mid-size sedan, why were you even considering the Civic then?

Sounds like you were just looking for A CAR and any car with 4 wheels and an engine would have sufficed.

I drove the new Accord when I just came out in the fall of 2002. Although it is nice, and the manual shifter in the 4 cylinder LX is buttery smooth, the car is the size of my grandma's Buick. Way too big for me to consider. Luckily, Honda also makes a 160 hp Civic, and that was the end of my search. Yes the Accord LX with manual is probably as much as the Civic EX auto, but they are in different classes of cars. A used Accord is EX auto is cheaper than new Civic EX, I can go on comparing apples and oranges all day.

blueiedgod

I'm wondering if there should be any difference in a Honda Civic made in Turkey, versus one made in England. Our dealer carries both, and the one from Turkey costs less. Is this just because of labor and shipping costs as they claim, or should I be concerned?

I assume you are not in the US. We only get US made, Japan made, Canada made and UK made Hondas. I have a UK made Honda, and it had some teething problems that were fixed by the dealer, but nonetheless, it was a pain to get such low craftsmanship from a Honda. I assume Turkey made car was meant for the Mideterranian/Middle Eastern sales, and may come with a weaker heater and stronger A/C, and beefed up cooling system. Whereas a car made for Nordic sales would come with a stronger heater and may have no A/c.

Each country may have its own requirements for a vehicle. Because US is so big we get heater and A/c in the north and south. But Canadian cars are slightly different that US, as far as optional and mandatory equipment (low washer light, and heated mirrors come to mind)

mauto

I want the stonger heater and A/C as both are not that great in my 02 Civic EX.

I seriously doubt whether the heater or A/C are different. The US Civic is the same throughout North America and the climate differences are huge, nevermind the Middle East. Yes, Hondas in Canada may get heated mirrors, etc., but a stonger heater? I'd like to see how that's done.

mthexuma

When you say you should have bought the Honda Accord over the Honda Civic because it was only a little mroe you are giving up the alloy wheels, sunroof and good mpg of the civic. You are also taking a big car. I personally think an accord is to big for me since I put 90 pecent highway miles and 90 percent of the time it is just me in the car. I don't want the parking hastle of the accord, my civic is much jumpier and easier to park. If you are a commuter like me I would say go with the civic, if you have a family I would say go with the accord. - There's my 2 cents. Also - I love how quickly my civic's A/C works on hot days and how quickly my car heats up in the winter. - I have a 2004 Civic EX sedan.

FYI - Everyone should register on Hondas website. Under there Honda's Owner's Link when you register your car that you own automatically comes out with all reccomendations by honda and will answer questions with right answers as opposed to many wrong ones I see on here - I listed below answers to two frequently asked questions

Honda strongly reccomends not doing the oil change till at least 5000 miles since there ARE special additives in the oil for engine break in.
It also says that there is absolutly no advantage to using a higher octane than recommended in the manual.
Please everyone read your manual - why spend thousands of dollars and not take a few hours to read?

weiser

right blueiedgod. i am in jerusalem, which is why turkey is closer than england. i'm not as concerned about the air/heating systems, as about more general issues. i guess it is the pricing differnce that makes me wary.

in general though, the one from turkey is a sedan, and the one from england is a '5door' ie - hatchback. that's another question. plus, the jazz is available here. the small size and gas milage are nice, but the civic isnt that much more expensive. this is similar to the discussion on accord v. civic, though i dont see as big a difference in size between the jazz and civic.

blueiedgod

Doesn't Jazz come with a turbo 3 cylinder? If you get Jazz in Israel, you are probably getting the HR-V. Although I only know of one instance when it snowed in Jerusalem, the HR-V is a wagon with AWD. I loved it when I lived in Japan.

As far as UK made vs. Turkey made goes, I can tell you that UK made car I have is inferior to Japan made, Canada made, and US made (in that order). Almost all of the warranty issues I had were due to sloppy assembly work. Yes it was the first year the Swindon plant was producing cars for global market, but they should have worked out the problems before releasing the vehicles to the public. The 2003's made in UK have had less prblems reported than the 2002.

If you want to make a rought judgement call on quality of UK made vs. Turkey made. Go to the dealer lot and measure the panel gaps and the variation. Japan made car would have very minimal gaps and very minimal variations, where as my UK made Civic has bigger gaps and they are varied throughout the car. It has to do with the pride employee takes in his/her work. Japanese workers generally have more pride in what they do.

I am not sure about the Irael laws, but make sure either the UK or Turkey made vehicle is certified for sale in Israel, as opposed to gray market vehicle. Honda will not honor warranty if the car is gray market. If I, as US resident went over to Canada and bought a Honda to bring back to US. Honda US will not honor the warranty on the car.

ruking1

And they talk of globalization of world trade!

More on topic, I'd get a Honda diesel product in a heartbeat if the proponents of world trade would let a Honda diesel product into this country!

blueiedgod

I don't think Honda has its own diesel, as of yet. The current diesel offered in EU is actually an Izusu diesel that Honda gets from GM by trading the V6's for the Saturn Vue. If you remember the problems Honda was having with the Passport, which was rebadged Izusu Rodeo, I would stay away from Izusu diesels. I would in a heartbeat buy Honda engineered diesel though.

ruking1

There is a Honda engineer (Japanese guy, dah?)that just recently lead the design team to build and implement the HONDA diesel.

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=136769

But you are right, I also would avoid the Izusu diesel.

I anticipate, according to what I have read, the Honda diesel to be better than the VW diesel. I do however enjoy the VW TDI. It still absolutely amazing to me to cruise 600 miles at 85,95 mph with passing bursts to 100 mph on I 70 south in Utah, fuel in Las Vegas NV and get 48 mpg!!!

blueiedgod

I think I was wrong, initially. Honda maye have released the Honda engineered diesel. Here is the UK advertizment for it (right click to save as, DO NOT PLAY FROM FTP SERVER http://members.aol.com/vasia/diesel.mpg

andysandiego

Thank you to those who replied. I posted the same question on the Accord Owners Forum. More people there agree with me that you can compare value for money between the two cars. The question isn't which is a better car.

ruking1

I am glad you got the answers to the questions you have asked.

mauto

"the new 2.2 i-CTDi engine which powers it is the first car diesel unit to be fully designed and developed in-house by the company."

Doesn't sound like Isuzu had anything to do with the Honda diesel to me.

mauto

"It has to do with the pride employee takes in his/her work. Japanese workers generally have more pride in what they do."

If that's the case, why did a Japanese company (Honda) build a plant in the UK? Sounds like Honda wasn't too proud after all if they let the Brits put their cars together. I've heard the opposite, that the UK Honda plants are top-notch. Still, after checking the panel gaps on one Si, you must know more than the industry.

blueiedgod

"the new 2.2 i-CTDi engine which powers it is the first car diesel unit to be fully designed and developed in-house by the company."

Doesn't sound like Isuzu had anything to do with the Honda diesel to me.

post 3669 was the retraction of the statement I made earlier with a nice movie file, if you missed it.

blueiedgod

If that's the case, why did a Japanese company (Honda) build a plant in the UK? Sounds like Honda wasn't too proud after all if they let the Brits put their cars together.

It has to do with the cost of labor in Japan. UK, Canada and US to Japan is what Mexico is to US and Eastern Europe to Germany, developing industrial country with cheap labor. Still, most of the cars for JDM are made in Japan, except a few that are imported back to Japan. All of the world's Civic hatchbacks are supposedly made in UK.

gfedchak

There's a preview picture of what the 2006 Honda Civic is supposed to look like in the December issue of MOTOR TREND that came in the mail today.

I'd be interested in hearing what other people think of the new design. Looks a lot like the current Prius, of all things!

backy

Well, maybe...

MotorTrend has recently provided a "sketch" of the 06 Si coupe in their December 2004 issue. Is it accurate you may ask? Very unlikely. Due to some of their past forecasts we would recommend waiting for information from other, more credible sources.

http://www.hondapreview.com/civic/

weiser

the turkey made civic is not grey market, they are from the liscenced honda dealer here in jerusalem. the sedan is from turkey, 5 door from UK. i'm not sure where the jazz is made.

as for the HRV, it is available, but we already have the honda shuttle (old model odessey in US) and are looking for something smaller.

and it has snowed more than once in jerusalem, things shut down when it does, and it melts pretty quickly too :-)

kdog

I have a 04 civic bought in January this year and has only 6000 miles on it. I haven't change the oil yet. The owner's manual says under normal driving conditions to change the oil every 10,000 miles or 1 year ,whichever comes first. Is this reliable information?
Also it recommends using 5w-20 oil, how about using 10w-30? I live in the SF bay area so the weather here is not a concern. Thanks

blueiedgod

Does your driving fall under the normal conditions? Do you ever get stuck in stop and go traffic? Do you ever go up and down hills? Or whatever else is listed as severe schedule in the manual. Then you would have to change oil at 5000 miles. I would not recommend going up the viscosity (10W-30), but you can go down to Mobil 1's 0W-20. By using thicker oil (10W-30) you are probably going to put more strain on the engine at start up and it will also decrease your fuel economy. There are plenty of 5W-20's out there from Exxon, Motorcraft (Ford), Honda (made by Exxon/Mobil, I was told) and Mobil 1 0W-20, which is the fully synthetic equivalent of 5W-20.

thunderbird

This is the first time I have come to the Honda Civic board. Perhaps a current owner would be best to answer this: Is this engine relatively weak at 115 HP. The ex model has 127 HP, but has less power than a 130 HP focus or corrola engine. This one factor has kept me from seriously considering this vehicle. I test drove a 2001 civic and it was a poor performer.

ruking1

The answer is yes and no! Perhaps the best would be to ask what are you wanting/needing and of some of all of the attributes what will you be able to live with and or afford?

For example: What is poor performance? What other vehicles get 35/38 mpg EPA?

mthexuma

Here is my conclusion since I bought my civic in mid July this year and now have 5100 miles on it. I LOVE my car. It is the greatest car with tons of neat features. By the way, for all you buying the Ford Focus, my cousin bought one about 6 months ago and laughed at me because I paid more for my civic. Guess what? Her transmission blew up!!!! I still laugh at her when I see her. Just to let everyone know, I don't understand how people get 35-40 mpg. I consistantly get about 29 mpg on each tank and I drive a lot of highway. I really drive my civic though. It is automatic but I step on the gas enough so it shifts around 3500 rpms when accelerating. I also travel at about 70-80 on highway where it really sucks up gas. That is a drawback - I was hoping for 30's in fuel economy. Another thing I hope Honda does for the 2006 civics is add a little power. About 150 HP for the EX would be perfect. Does anyone know anything yet about 2006 civic? I really want a picture!

ruking1

During the break in (600 miles) I "flogged" the engine (up and down reving) . In the handling department I took it fairly easy for the real goal of that part of the break in is to let all the parts smoothly work together. The engine can/is a bit different in that while you want it to mesh well; you also want to establish good to little consumption patterns and experience the full range of engine performance up to and including redline. I used the air conditioning for higher load potentials etc and got app 35-36 mpg. At 2,000 miles we are getting between 36-39 mph in a mostly highway 50 mile daily R/T commute. The actual times are between 30-45 min so you can estimate the "average" mph.

blueiedgod

It is automatic but I step on the gas enough so it shifts around 3500 rpms when accelerating.

Too bad it is auto, only if you knew how much power your Civic has at or above 5000 rpm, you would wish you bought a stick. Try and hold that pedal until the tach goes above 5000 and close to the readline.

This is the first time I have come to the Honda Civic board. Perhaps a current owner would be best to answer this: Is this engine relatively weak at 115 HP. The ex model has 127 HP, but has less power than a 130 HP focus or corrola engine. This one factor has kept me from seriously considering this vehicle. I test drove a 2001 civic and it was a poor performer.

And to the person asking about Corolla and a Civic and whether the 127 HP was less than 130 hp. Go with a Corolla. Honda engines are not for every day people who want point and shoot power. Honda engines are revvers and require some forcasting as to where you want to be in the RPM range when you make a maneuver. Honda is an engine company, automatics are not Honda's strong point and most of the automatic transmissions kill the fun factor that high revving engine can provide in a clutch environment with its precise shifting and engagement. Also, Honda's manual tranmissions are sometimes rated higher than BMW's which is the standard for most other "fun driving" vehicles.
So, yes, a Civic will run cirles around a "more powerfull" (3 hp, can anyone notice that?) in the hands of a skilled driver. If you want a car to get you from point A to point B then get a Corolla. Unless you are looking at Corolla XRS (or GTS) one of them 180 hp Corolla's with a high revving Yamaha engine and 6 spd manual. Those are revvers too, and require more neural activity.

ncampbell2002

The latest issue of Motor Trend has a sketch of what the 2006 Civic SI might look like but I haven't seen what the coupe and sedan. However it looks as Honda may be going with a coupe for the SI for 06 so I would look for similar body styles for the regular coupe and sedan. Let's put it this way, if the 06 SI comes out similar to the way the sketch looks and if it comes w/ the 210 HP RSX type S engine/6spd. like the article hints, then it'll make me want to trade in my current 03 EX!!!!

imidazol97

"more powerfull" (3 hp, can anyone notice that?)"

It's the torque rating at low range that most people should look at. If you can find a published graph of the torque rating/curve vs rpm, the car with the torque highest in the 2-3K range is what most drivers will rate as the better engine.

Horsepower is only at rpms like blueie is talking about. Most of us don't drive cars like that. I used to compare horsepower when I was young buying Mustangs, but later I realized it's the torque that you use from a stoplight and stopsigns that makes the car feel strong.

"Honda is an engine company, automatics are not Honda's strong point"

You can sure say that again with all the trans recalls and extended warranties they had to give for Odyssey and Accord v6 transmissions through the last ?10 years...

jaa37

Does that mean I should change my oil after the first 5,000 miles, or wait until 7,500 or 10,000 and then every 5,000? I think my dealer recommended 7,500 at the beginning.

imidazol97

The dialogue back and forth here hinges on the tenet that everyone should have the same oil change interval: whatever is in the Book of Honda owners manual.

But different driving styles and seasons for those of us who have snow and summer or high temps for those in the hot-hot southern climes mean that everyone really should change their oil at different intervals.

I watch my oil's "contaminant" load by putting 3 drops on a piece of kitchen paper towel. When the oil spreads it leaves behind a center dark area of dirt and oxidation. If that center patch is about the size of a dime after letting the oil spread for 5 or 10 mintues, I start thinking about changing it.

This varies from 2500 miles in winter with my wife's short drives to 3000 on my older car in winter (Ohio). In summer I just went 4500 miles on the newer car with two 700 mile trips and longer drives through the summer mixed in with 5-mile trips to my wife's school.

The oil change indicator in the computer indicated 25% left on the oil. So I'm real comfortable with using my paper towel method.

If you care enough about your car to ask here what you should do, I suggest that you try the paper towel with oil from a hot motor and see how it matches up with the change interval you select.

BTW: I change filter every time. I do my own oil changes.

blueiedgod

Does that mean I should change my oil after the first 5,000 miles, or wait until 7,500 or 10,000 and then every 5,000? I think my dealer recommended 7,500 at the beginning.

It depends on what your driving conditions are. If you fall under SEVERE then you should change at 5000 and then every 5000. If you fall under Normal conditions, then change at 10,000. Anything in between is your call. It is your car after all.

Pesonally, I do 5000 miles on Mobil 1 and change filter very time. I have a 7 mile commute with most highway. The car never gets warm enough, not like it used to when I had a 60 mile commute. But, either way, I was doing 5000 mile intervals with Mobil 1 and Honda OEM filter, until the warranty expires. Then I will switch to Mobil 1 filter and may go 7500 miles. My main reason for doing 5000 miles was questionable media used in Honda OEM filter. Although Honda recommends changing the filter every other time, I highly doubt that recycled toilet paper media can withstand 10,000 miles of pressure fluctuations (accelerate to red line, decelerate)

gregoryc1

Here is an important question! ----Why would people who own Honda vehicles believe in extended oil changes as stated in the "Book of Honda", (owner's manual), and then, question the "quality" of the Honda Oil Filters that were designed by the same engineers that developed the extended oil change intervals? If the owners feel that the quality of the Honda Oil Filter cannot perform as recommended in the owner's manual, what makes them think that the oil will perform as recommended in the same owner's manual? You see, you cannot have it both ways. Extended oil and filter changes are pure propaganda! It is simply a marketing tool that all manufacturers use to show a low cost of vehicle maintenance. Honda recommends, (under normal driving conditions), changing the engine oil every 10,000 miles, and changing the oil filter every other oil change. QUESTIONS: ---What would the filter be like at the end of 20,000 miles? Do you think it would be doing it's job, or would it be by-passing the oil through the engine because it is clogged?

imidazol97

Why use Mobile 1 at 6 times the price if you're going to change oil at 5K or 7.5K? The purpose of the US type synthetics (which are actually blends, not synthetics from what I read in the Passat discussion) is to allow extended oil change intervals. I recall 20K mentioned: why not use that extended interval?

I personally will use regular oil and change frequently by some's standards. Cheaper and it gets contaminants out of the system.

Oil filters: I read that Honda filters are made by Fram. Point made.

I don't know where the 'toilet paper media' reference comes from. The medium used for filtering is made from materials of which I don't know the content. They may look like toilet paper, but if you put toilet paper in there, you'll quickly have nothing left, same as putting toilet paper in the toilet: it dissolves into separate fibers. The reference may come from the 50 and 60s when someone sold filter holds for toilet paper rolls for engines. These were like some of the original filters in the 50s which were tanks where a filter was dropped in that was about the size of toilet paper rolls.

Oil pressure: cars have a pressure relief valve that prevents the oil pressure from going above a certain level. Revving the engine fast may reach taht maximum output of the pump and start dumping the excess oil to keep the pressure at the maximum allowed. These rarely, if ever fail to control max pressure. More often they drop resistance and start dumping at lower pressures.

imidazol97

The point Greg makes I agree with about oil change intervals. Use regular oil, save the extra money marketing departments have made you think you need to spend on mixed synthetic/dino oil. Use that for premium oil filters that do a better job than the adequate Fram, Honda, and other base filters.

See Bobtheoilguy.com where tests have been done on filters in a somewhat scientific method. I'll change mine every oil chanage, thank you...

I'll use the money I save to buy better filters for the oil and for the air that goes into the motor. That's the source of some dirt that ends up in the oil.

john500

The best indicator of driving performance is to get the power/weight ratio for all of the cars you are interested in. The highest power/weight ratio within a class will generally accelerate better. Keep in mind that a 70 hp motorcycle can run the quarter mile in less than 12 seconds. Why? Primarily because it weighs 300-600 lbs.

imidazol97

Torque to weight or horsepower to weight?

The torque to weight would be involved in the
driving most people do in stop and go and suburban traffic. Horsepower to weight would be for those doing 1/4 mile drags where they rev the engine up to 5K.

The gear ratios of the transmissions and final drive ratios would be at play here too.

ruking1

I think the neatest thing about todays products is they are more robust that ever before. I think this is one of the myraid of reasons why you can have a pick and chose service interval at for example: severe/normal.

I also follow the Bobstheoilguy web site. One thing is clear about the scientific method that is missing: They do not do comparative oil analysis measurement across filters to see which one is actually filtering better/worse and more importantly at what levels does it matter/not matter. It is very clear for example they do a construction quality analysis comparison but then again how does this affect effect actual oil analysis!??

The truth is that you can go the other way and get preoilers and bypass filters which in theory can cut down total wear by 50-80% OVER what you think you are cutting down wear by unneeded more frequent oil changes and so called "BETTER" filters.

blueiedgod

...and then, question the "quality" of the Honda Oil Filters that were designed by the same engineers that developed the extended oil change intervals?
I agree with you GregoryC, I should be following Honda recommended one filter change for two oil changes. Maybe I will try it next time, and see what happens.

The purpose of the US type synthetics (which are actually blends, not synthetics from what I read in the Passat discussion) is to allow extended oil change intervals.
Not all synthetics are created equal. Mobil 1, German made Castrol, Red line, Royal purple (or whatever the name is) and Amsoil are all pure synthetics with a controlled olefin chain length. Valvoline, US made Castrol, Quaker state, Pensoil are very highly purified dyno oils that have a better chain distribution than regular oil, but not as perfect as artificially made true synthetics.

The cost of Synth to quality dyno oil is 3-4X. But synth will flow instantly at sub freezing temps, because its rheology is not affected as much by temperature as dyno oil. Mobil 1 0W-20 has almost the same viscosity at 200°C as it does at -30°C, as per Mobil 1 specifications. Exxon's own superflo 5W-20's viscosity varies greatley with temperature. What that means for someone who lives in Buffalo NY? You don't need to have an oil heater when it is -30°F and your car is outside. The oil will flow the instant you crank the engine. Whereas dyno oil will take a second of dry running before the pistons get lubrication in the engine. With time all these seconds will add up and you lose compression. No, there is no need to warm up the engine. It only takes a second to get the dyno oil flowing, but synth would not have an issue.
Also, in the souther climates the synth will not deteriorate with higher operating temps, although the cooling system should keep the engine temps in check.
...but if you put toilet paper in there, you'll quickly have nothing left, same as putting toilet paper in the toilet: it dissolves into separate fibers.
One thing you forgot is that toilet paper is made/designed to dissolve in water. It should hold up pretty well in anhydrous conditions, such as engine oil, which may have very low percentage of water.

sek4mlk

I would like to add CD capability to my 2001 Civic LX. Seems there are two options:

1. Retain current factory AM/FM/tape unit and add Honda single CD player ($120 from H and A).
2. Replace factory unit with aftermarket unit that incorporates CD player in head unit. I'd like to spend $200 or less.

Option 1 thoughts
- Seems to be cleaner cosmetically. Retains original styling.
- Satisfied w/ factory head unit (Majestic says made by Alpine). Ample power for my purposes and OK audio quality.
- Lose storage bin below head unit (never use)
- If head unit ever fails, costly to replace. Honda CD player only works with factory head unit.

Option 2 thoughts
- Requires adapter faceplate. Anyone used the adpater offered by Crutchfield?
- Perhaps better audio quality
- Added features (better display, satellite?)

Any comments appreciated. BTW, rear deck speakers have been replaced with Polk coaxials, front speakers are factory.

ruking1

Given your parameter of $200., the 120 dollar Honda aftermarket/OEM sounds like the best bet! For as staggering as the aftermarket choices are. I am thinking an audio shop would be spinning its wheels with a budget of 200.

brendah

where is the world is the gauge to adjust my dashboard lights? I have a 2004 civic and my dashboard is extremely bright. In fact so bright that at night it appears that I have my headlamps on when I really don't.

sek4mlk

Assuming it's like the 2001 (not sure), check the left side of the instrument guage cluster. Looks just like the trip odometer reset button on the right side but you twist it instead of pushing it.

3c3

I would recommend an aftermarket unit. You can get a CD with MP3 for less than $200. I have purchased many car receivers from Crutchfield.

As for the speakers, you replaced the rear but kept the factory front? I would think the front speakers are more important for you as the driver.