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Comments
For a 4 cylinder, it's charactistics are remarkably refined. The power delivery itself is more of a rush compared to the V6, but I define smooth as a lack of vibration and harshness. It effortlessly winds up to red line with any hint of strain. It idles like it's not even running.
Compared to a Dodge Neon (and almost every other 4 cylinder out there), the 1.8T is silky smooth and quiet.
-Craig
6 disc changers...aftermarket is available (Crutchfield)...I've seen online VW dealers (Drewparts.com, with clubb5 discounts) come in at $280 plus shipping. I'd definitely look at both, they both work thru the HU, not RF mod. VW sourced seems the best option to maintain warranty coverage.
Engines...I got the 1.8T. I did tons of research before buying. Two weak points are the coilpacks (bad supplier) and new models come with the revised version (I think with build dates after August 2002). The fix is easy and under warranty. However, parts are in short supply at some times and in some places. The other weak link is the head cover gasket (different and much more accessible than the headgasket), which has a tendency to seep. Also addressed under warranty for most people. 1.8T is more frugal on fuel and less expensive to maintain, at least overtly. The 1.8 engine has a reputation for being bulletproof, very solid and capable of withstanding considerably higher horsepower (pressure).
15" inch wheels...can the average consumer actually differentiate between a 15" and 16", from the driver's seat? Maybe it's me, but I've driven both and really couldn't tell the difference in day-to-day driving (may not apply to hard-driving or track time). I do, however, like the positive price difference in favor of 15" tires.
wheels: I can tell the difference in the amount of grip the tire provides. There is a big enough difference between 15" and 16" tires that you can tell the difference in fast cornering (the larger tires hold on to the pavement better and don't squeal as much).
Changers: There is an in-dash changer available through VW, I have seen it on Vortex. It won't fit the newer models with double-DIN radios though, and it's about $550 including shipping. Crutchfield sells a cheaper changer than the VW factory one, that works with an adapter. I don't know which one it is though.
Wheels...I didn't push the cars that hard during my back to back, tires were brand new with 20 or 30 miles on them; hardly the ideal test situation. Everyone complains about the 15" Conti's for squealing. So if that brand was on the car, I don't know if that was a fair test for you. The cars I tested both had the Michelins on alloys. As an aside, on our Honda, I went from Michelin MX4's to Dunlop D60 A2's in the same size (was tempted to zero plus size them, but didn't), and it was a night and day difference in grip, noise and resistance to squealing. The Dunlop's just beat the Michelin's in every category.
Regardless, I view our car as a family wagon...I don't kid myself that it's a sport wagon, ala some of the BMW offerings. It has some sporting pretenses, but...
Seats...yeah, I've had back problems for a couple of decades now, some I'm real careful about car seats. Our Passat beats our Honda Accord seats for comfort, in my view. Once I dial everything in, I'm good and comfortable. The heated seats are an added plus.
YMMV.
PS: On the back pain, I actually started doing the exercises that the doctor prescribed on a regular basis, and it made a huge difference in my life. Strong abdominals cut my back pain by at least 95%, and I seldom worry about my back when working, shoveling snow, or driving. Worth a try!
in the meantime, can someone clue me in as to how to set the seat memory?
A 185/65/15 or a 185/60/16 both have a tire width of 185mm. You have no additional grip because of more tire contact patch with the 16" tire.
What you do gain is the second tire listed above has a lower sidewall and that gives a lesser tendency to roll under during had cornering.
Is it worth the more expensive tire to go to the 16" replacement? That is an individual choice.
I don't drive a car hard enough any more that it makes a difference. I like the less expensive 15" replacement tires.
Speaking of tires, it seems that a lot of people are replacing their OEM tires due to wear in the 30,000 mile range. I have just over 40,000 on the original Conti's. I rotated front to back at 30,000 when the fronts were down about 50% in tread. I usually get 60,000 to 70,000 from a set of tires and don't see these being any different. A fair amount of my driving is on the highways around St. Louis, maybe that accounts for my extended tire life.
Although 16" or 17" do look better on the Passat (fill the wheel well better).
For me? I'm sticking with 15". Too many potholes here in New England. The slightly higher sidewall causes less harshness.
-Craig
motor, much better than most other 4 cylinder
engines, although I have not driven a honda
or toyota modern 4 cylinder engine car.
The VW V6 is just a little smoother and quieter than the 4, although I bet from a stop, the turbo 4 is quicker till the cars get up to some speed.
I suppose the turbo would be great in the mountans, where the air gets thin, since the turbo will just boost the pressure up.
For me, I am not looking for a race car, but want
something very quiet and smooth, with a nice smooth power delivery, like a luxury car.
I took another long test drive in a 2002 glx,
with 4000 miles on it (demo), and found...
Rattle/squeak in drivers door trim,
Throttle operation slightly odd,
Slightly rough feeling idle after the hiway drive.
I did not notice any of these problems in the new
2003 I test drove a while ago.
The squeak does not worry me, the throttle
(drive by wire) I hope is something they improved,
the rough feel a idle is something else I hope
was improved.
Brett
With all of the VW and Passat enthusiasts that post here I don't read about owners with high mileage and long ownership periods.
Is that because as enthusiasts we get new cars more often and don't keep them to high miles? Or is it a function of the demographics of the internet or Edmunds that people who keep cars longer are not hanging out here?
This is hardly a revelation, just one of the obscure thoughts that hit on the eve of a holiday while droning away the hours at work.
Happy and safe New Year to all our Passat Friends!
R. J.
Wheel/tire combos are a mixed bag - maybe the "average consumer" would not be able to tell the difference between 15" & 16" sets, but would expect most 'enthusiasts' to be able to distinguish between, say, a Cheap 'commuting' 15" tire and a well-designed 'performance' 15" tire. Differences in road noise, ability to hold a curve, grip on wet or snowy roads - or even BETWEEN acceleration, braking & handling characteristics on various road surfaces (wet, snowy, dry) are often apparent - and sometimes seem almost contradictory (ie: tires that accelerate and brake well on wet &/OR snow, but don't Corner well under same conditions, as opposed to a different set that seems to corner just fine, but doesn't brake &/OR accelerate very well...). And, of course, it should be apparent to anyone who OUGHT to be driving that SOME change has taken place if you put them on a snow/ice track first with a set of 'summer only tires' and next with a set of Blizzaks (?SP?).
The real question is not whether or not it is possible to tell the difference between two sets of tires - even if the same size - but rather how FINE of a difference a particular driver is able to distinguish. This latter question probably hinges a lot on the amount of experience with each set of tires (over differing road, weather & driving conditions)as well the area(s) AND degree to which that driver 'pushes the limits.' (Do you brake hard? Corner hard? Accelerate hard? Always seek max MPG? Value 'comfort' above all else?)
The 'natural' +1 change for the base Passat is from 195/65/15" to 205/55/16"; if, in the process, you also change from a 'touring' to a 'performance' tire, I would expect the vast majority of 'enthusiasts' to be able to tell the difference, GIVEN sufficient experience with each set of wheel/tire combinations. (Back-to-back tests would be best. You might not always be able to tell WHICH set of tires was mounted, but, again, given a wide enough variety of road surfaces / conditions / curves, most drivers should at least be aware that A Change has taken place. Extreme example again: some tires simply Stop better on wet roads than others - you might not know which set of tires was mounted, but you would certainly be able to tell the difference in the stopping distances if you slammed on the brakes...)
In any event - and just in case we haven't yet beaten this to death - there was a considerable change in the on-road characteristics of my Passat after changing from the stock 15" Michelins (All Season Touring, H-rated) to 16" Dunlops ("All Season Ultra-High Perf" Z-rated, with new wheels, of course...).
The only negative has been a slight drop in MPG - all of the other 'performance' aspects (acceleration, handling, braking) have improved, on both wet and dry roads, and the Dunlops are at least as competent in the snow as the Michelins (I believe that they are better, but that is based on only limited snow driving as yet. Superior design/softer rubber apparently makes up for the slight increase in width).
As a side note, the Dunlops also represent the third time I have gone from a Sym. to an Asym. tread design on the same vehicle (although it is the first time that also involved a diameter increase as well): in each case, the result has been much better OVERALL 'performance,' although always with a noticeable loss in at least one area (MPG in this case; with my SHO, the loss was ultimate ("9/10ths +") DRY ROAD cornering: went from "Z" rated Michelins to "H" rated "HiPerf All-season" tires on that car. But was so much happier with wet/snow performance that the decrease on dry road cornering seemed a fair compromise, so I stuck with a 2nd set of the same tires, which are still mounted on the car.
Someone made a comment about smaller tires = better acceleration, due to less weight. While that seems logical, the dynamics are much more complicated of course: were that strictly true, all of the drag racers would be running on 155/12" tires (LOW WEIGHT!), and that is obviously not the case: you need enough grip to transfer the power to the road, without fruitlessly spinning the tires - which was a frequent problem on the Passat with the stock Michelin's. Stickier rubber on a same-sized tire would have helped - but stickier rubber on a wider, lower-profile tire helps even more, and more than offsets any extra weight (which can itself be minimized, or eliminated, by buying lightweight wheels).
--> If you have a back-library, recall Road & Track making some pertintent comments about tire size/design and performance on wet vs dry roads during a comparison test between A4 & Passat wagons a couple of years ago or so. If time can be found, will try to look that up & test how well memory still works....
Also, Tire Rack has a reprint of an article on the effects of Plus Sizing on track performance (lap times) - which presumably reflects the overall balance between acceleration, braking & cornering capabilities - showing the change over about 4 different dia. sizes.
As a comparson:
195/65-15 to 205/60-15 would be 1.2% too fast
195/65-15 to 205/55-15 would be 4.4% too fast
Too fast refers to:
1.2% = speedo reads 60mph when traveling 59.3mph
4.4% = speedo reads 60mph when traveling 57.4mph
For more comparions:
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
-Craig
Unsprung weight hurts a lot. If you mention getting "light weight" 17" rims, why can't we get even ligher weight 15" rims?
If one runs 245/50/15's and one runs 245/50/17's, where's the difference in the contact patch? All I see is less weight with the 15's. And one can't really go more than 245's on a Passat without the tire rubbing (and 245 may even be too much - it was just a hypothetical situation).
And I really wouldn't compare a dragster with 1,000hp with a 200hp Passat.
-Craig
Note: You need to make sure the red button next to the 1, 2, and 3 buttons is pressed "on." There have been numerous times I accidentally pressed that by mistake, which deactivated the seat settings. Just turn it back on and the settings are still there.
By the way, if you ever disconnect the battery, you'll need to re-set the automatic seats. Power loss wipes out the settings.
I'v had my 2002 passat 1.8T for almost a year and I still love it.
Has anybody noticed and/or can explain why the mpg computer generally indicates better gas mileage in warmer weather. I am guessing because less gas is consumed in warmer weather because the air is less dense. This seems a little far-fetched to me...
Thanks
You'll see your best mileage in the spring and fall, when the weather is warm, but not hot. At that time you're not running the air conbditioner as much and the car is typically fairly warm when you start it.
Putting this into perspective I was told I could drive home approx 3 miles no highways. I called VW of america and they apparently were aware of this problem. They were helpful and arranged to have a coil placed aside for me when they arrive and would allow me $35.oo a day towards a rental. My question to you all is, If They know that this part is substandard should"t there be a voluntary recall, and When they replace this coil do they replace all of them, or do I have to wonder when i will get stuck again with the others burning. Also VW told me not to drive the car at all and that I should have left it at the dealership, which in NYC is a gamble in and of itself.
Any comments,suggestions are gladly appreciated.
In closing I still love the car and driving it despite this second electrical related breakdown within 10,000 miles.
Were also stock size mounted on early A4s with 2.8 engine.
Size calculators I have seen indicated a small change when going from 195/65/15s to 205/55/16s: along the lines of .004, or 4 TENTHS of 1%. I relied upon the "Passat/A4 Tire Shopper," manufacturer specs, + advice from Tire Rack when making change decision, and did some 'mileage marker" testing along freeway that suggested not enough error to bother with.
Was surprised to see 4.4% calculation, so visited the Miata site referenced: plugging these two sizes into their calculator returns Diameter change of 25 to 24.9 & Revs/mi of 807 to 811 (15s to 16s in each case). Both of these figures compute to a change of approx .004, which agrees with the earlier 4 TENTHS of a percent error (.04 would equal a 4% error).
-->> NOTES: 1) we may be speaking apples & oranges here: my actual tire change, as noted in my earlier post, was from 195/65/15 to 205/55/16s.
outrun's reply cautions against 4+% error in going from "195/65-15 to 205/55-15" - my first assumption (always a danger...) was that he INTENDED to show the change as being to '205/55-16' and simply mistyped the dia as "15." Would agree that change from 195/65/15 to 205/55/15 would probably produce an error in the 4 - 5% range.
2) Am equating "+1" sizing with an increase in wheel diameter of 1inch from the stock size. "+2" would then be a 2inch increase. This understanding of the concept of "plus sizing" seems compatible with TireRack, Discount Tire, and other references I am familiar with.
OK, I'll eat that one: wouldn't care to have to 'stand behind' such a comparison either! Example was intentionally EXTREME, intended to drive home opinion that stock Michelin 195/65/15s were woefully pathetic in terms of any 'sporting' use - but should have tried harder to present goal of overall Balance as opposed to competency in only one area (ie: acceleration) [Which was intent behind reference the track testing of various "plus" tire sizes agains stock size.]
Suspect there are 'downsides' to sticking on ultra-wide small-dia tires (handling comes to mind), but it is way too late for any more coherent thought...
(Happy New Year!)
-Craig
I plan on getting dedicated winter tires/rims one of these days (TireRack seems to be out of stock on a lot of them). And then get summer tires mounted to my 15" rims. Happy medium between sport and comfort.
-Craig
thus, +2 on a Passat GL or GLS is the 225/45 r17 combo.
Though note, the W8 has 215/55 r16, but +1 is 225/45 r17
-Craig
I wonder if spraying some armorall or son of a gun type silicone stuff on the coils and keeping them clean would prevent problems, or if the problem is internal...
Spark plug gap can also have a big impact on
possible problems, the wider the gap, the more likely other parts are to arc.
On tires, my local dealer will give me the choice of the michelen or continental tires on a new car.
From reading the tire rack info, and info on this
list, both are poor tires, but I would go with the
michelens, as they cost more at least.
I have dunlop SP5000 tires on the Jaguar, and really like them for being smooth and quiet, good in the wet, soft sidewalls makes them a bit sloppy
during hard cornering on such a heavy car
(4000 Lb) but they GRIP real well.
For handling, I liked the pirelli p4000 super touring tire, strong and great grip, but noisy
and somewhat stiff....the low price is nice.
The difference between both tires was VERY dramatic, the dunlops being MUCH quieter, and
the very noticable sloppy hanndling, but I got
used to that, and dont notice it any more.
While test driving the passats, the continental
tires seemed to be unable to grip well enough for even a moderatly fast takeoff.
Any brisk takeoff had the wheel spinning....
One test drive with the continentals had a strong
vibration above 60 mph, the michelens were smooth.
Its a shame VW could not put some better tires on the new cars. Seems the stock tires are quality
enough, but not very performance.
If I have to get poor tires, I might as well get the expensive smooth ones!
About 8 weeks till I can get my new passat.
I count the days...
Brett
You should see the Jaguar list,
(www.Jag-lovers.org), you would think problems with the cars are MUCH more common, but actualy,
the cars are very reliable, its just that the only people posting are the ones with problems, so all you see is problems, problems, problems.
Only a few problems around here.
I dont expect to have a trouble free car, no matter what type it is, I just dont want LOTS of problems, or SERIOUS problems....
Its a very good sign to me that this list is not
full of complaints!
Brett
It sucks but if they replace every single coilpack on your car, there wouldn't be parts for someone else.
Also this problem only affects models built during a specific time frame (while the bad coilpack design was being used). If anyone reading this is concerned, check the vortex or clubb5 for more detailed info. It's been discussed to death there...
same rim, wider tire = +0
Krzys
PS According to my knowledge, of course.
Many water pump failures at low miles (electric),
oil leak/smell problems, electrical problems, coil pack problems, radio problems, door switch problems, many people report poor service response at dealers (waiting for weeks for parts), many of these problems at under 40,000 miles, very low miles for a modern car.
Also reported that you have to remove the plastic shield under the car to change the oil, a real pain in the butt.
The passat is the only new car I like at all, and now I find out its likely to be in the shop a lot, for a long time. Another bad thing is that the valves impact the pistons if the timing belt slips or breaks, or if you are in a front impact accident. Why not a chain?
What am I to do?
I want a new car, and they all have teen styling inside, and/or are filled with really crappy looking plastic.
Why MUST they use a failure prone, hard to replace electric coolant pump?
Why must they leak oil?
Its 2003 now, and my 1990 Jaguar with 140,000 miles on it does not leak a drop of anything, have we gone no place in 13 years?
I am VERY disapointed in VW.
Brett
Brett, save your disappointment for 1st hand experience. These sites are loaded with postings of all the things that go wrong but lack the good. Human nature, [non-permissible content removed] but never compliment.
I change my own oil and the plastic shroud under the engine is not that difficult to remove and it protects a lot of pieces from underside damage.
No problems so far and this is my third VW.
These sites make you think that every VW purchased has all these problems. Are the odds of a problem higher than an Accord, maybe. The way I look at it, my Passat with no problems has the exact same reliability as an Accord with no problems. And I get a car with character.
It's a personal choice. If you need all the assurance possible that your car will be problem free, get a UJA (Universal Japanese Auto). If you can live with a little risk, I think very little, and want character get a VW.
Anyone willing to risk a Jaguar with Lucas electronics has to be willing to go with a VW.
Look at any manufacturer thread here on Edmunds. It's one complaint after another, Hyundai to Honda, Volvo to Volks. That's what these sites are for. Read thru the threads and make an informed decision. Looking for bulletproof reliability? I don't think it exists...cars are more complex every year. If you can't face the uncertainty, do yourself a favor and go UJA (Love that, gotta remember it!). It won't be as entertaining, but you'll rest easier.
By the way, try Clubb5.com...it's a little less bitchy and a little more enthusiast. Even 'Vortex readers think that.
Also, buying a car involves taking risks. If you feel you don't want to do that, then I am sure Honduh/Toyota/Nissan will be there to sell you an appliance on wheels...
I think that there should be a voluntary recall as I am now insecure about this happening again. I will take the matter further and I hope that all those others affected with this problem will also . At this point in auto evolution and company image, there is no room for this kind of game playing.
I heard, there are performance coil sets avalable, it might be a good idea to replace all the coils with the performance set and be done with it.
($400.00?)
If I get a passat, and it looks like there is no
other choice at all after looking at hondas, nissans, toyotas, Jaguars, I will likely
get a backup electric water pump (V6) and keep
it in the trunk.
I am the type of person who will not go back for warentee repairs unless its real expensive or a big job, I have better things to do than wait on the dealers.
Better to just do the work at my convienience.
My 1990 Jaguar has never been in any shop except
tire places, now at 143,000 miles.
Hopefully, the VW will be servicable...
I dont expect a flawless car for 80,000
miles, but there were a LOT of reports of water
pump failures at low miles....just as there are
LOTS of 4 and 8 cyl cars waiting for coils.
Do the V6 coils ever go?
Brett
clean things up, and apply it to all moving parts, and the back of the brake pads.
They sell sticky stuff you spray on the back of the pads, but I never had any luck with that, it just made a huge sticky mess.
I put the grease on the pad edges where they contact the calipers, on the caliper guide pins,
back of the pads, etc.
The grease comes in a little tub, high temp disk
brake grease, although other types like copper
grease, or even molly grease may work.
Quality pads also help prevent problems, and I never use pep boys and other parts store pads
as I ALWAYS had problems with them of one sort
or another.
Ferodo, mintex, axxis? jurid, semi metalic pads
would be good, the softer the pad, the stronger,
smoother, and quieter the brakes, with less disk wear, but at shorter pad life and more dust.
Brett
You probably have the one reliable Jaguar built that year. Most require that the operator carry around a case of oil and a bag of spare parts in the trunk.
Experience with any individual car does not allow one to generalize. My '02 Passat 1.8T now has 79K trouble-free miles - a better record than the Subarus, Toyotas and BMWs I've had over the last 20 years or so, and they all were much more reliable than the Ford, Chrysler and (shudder) GM products I've owned or used as office cars.
Just over 12k on my '02 1.8T.
-Craig
I am not sure what can be done but I would hound the dealer about it. Have them explain that if it is because of the pads, why doesn't every car on the lot squeal. Make them change components until the squeal is gone. This almost makes you yearn for the days when brake pads had asbestos.
Duane
That doesn't mean that you are guaranteed to have the coils go out. But you might. Just like me, with a June 2002 build date. So far, so good!