Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

robr2

VW has a reputation for being sticklers. A coworker cooked a 1.8T in his Jetta. He couldn't produce proof of oil changes as he has them done outside the dealership. He bought himself a rebuild on the engine 6 months before the lease expired.

traceya

Volkswagen's behavior is criminal!

The reality is they should have required synthetic oil on the Passat...just like the Audi does and this would NOT be a problem.

Now they have changed to a strongly recommend.

I am the tip of the iceberg. With their recent press release this is just going to go on and on.

passat4mo

traceya,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. You should not have been denied based on your service history, at least by any reason. Although you were not perfect, you were not even close to neglectful.

You may still have the ability to force the dealers hand, but you'll need some luck, and all the facts, and be ready to fight. You are going to have to call in question the competency of the dealer. It won't be VW paying for it under warranty, but the dealer... here we go.

The oil sludge issue has been responded to by VW by extending the warranty on 1.8T engines to 8-years regardless of owner for damage from sludge.

The link below is a scan of the consumer notification, and has some nice details to it (it's big...1.5M, so be patient).

Of particular note is page 3. It lists all the approved oils for use on the 1.8T. For ease, here is the list:

Castrol Syntec 5-40
Chevron Supreme Synthetic 5-40
Elf Excellium LDX 5-40
Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic 5-40
Mobil-1 0-40
Pennzoil Synthetic European Formula 5-40
Pennzoil Synthetic European Formula Ultra 5-30
Quaker State Synthetic European Formula 5-40
Quaker State Synthetic European Formula Ultra 5-30
76 Lubricants 76 Pure Synthetic 5-40
Texaco Havoline Synthetic 5-40
Total Quartz 9000 5-40
Valvoline Synpower 5-40 & 5-30

Of particular note:

1. There are only 3 30 weight oils listed.
2. All the oils listed are synthetic.
3. Some of the oils on the list are not available in the US (really inconsequential as long as some are, but then why list them)

99% of US VW dealers do not use synthetic oils without it being requested and of course charging more (reasonable, since it costs more).

There is a great chance that your dealer did not use an oil on this list (I guarantee it!) Many use a standard 30 weight oil.

This is going to be a problem for VW (IMO).

So. Call the dealer. Ask EXACTLY what oil they used for your oil changes. Once you verify that it's not on the list. Call VWoA, and tell them that the dealer that did all your oil changes is not using the recommended oil from VWoA. Ask for the corporate rep's name for your area. Tell him the same thing. Call the dealer, tell them the same thing. Call the BBB, tell them the same thing. Call you attorney, tell him the same thing.

The dealer not using the proper oil is a larger problem then you adding a couple of thousand miles to a couple of oil changes.

Best of luck.

fish8

I just called my local VW Dealer and asked what oil they use for the 1.8t engine and they stated Castrol 10w-30.

How many quarts of oil does this engine use?

altair4

The 2003 model uses the smaller filter and only takes about 3.9 qts of oil; the current model (2004) takes 4.2 or so (with the larger filter). That's part of the problem: small sump + hot turbo + plus indifferent servicing + non-synth oil = sludge. Sludge = clogged oil screen. Clogged oil screen = death to engine.

I agree with Passat4mo...dig in and fight. And the best ammunition you have right now is the dealer probably didn't use synthetic (unless Traceya's oil changes were costing something north of $50).

traceya

How do I dig in and fight??

Any suggestions on finding an attorney?

Service dealer at Volkswagen told me they do not use synthetic oil unless requested. He said that that is the problem and until Volkswagen makes it mandatory they can only suggest.

So, I am sure it will be in 2005.

So...now I am at a road block with Volkswagen of America. The dealer say it is their decision (which sounds logical).

Can't talk to anyone at Volkswagen because you have no access except with the lowly phone rep.

So...What now?

I am at a loss on what to do next.

Volkswagen of America is going to be facing a lot of these claims. Service mgr and dealer told me it is a big problem.

HELP!

taft4

If VW has had their final say you may have to go the legal route. Hiring an attorney can be expensive. Better to look into the Small Claims Court procedures in your state first. You will not be able to go after all your $6,000 but some states allow a case up to $5,000.00 and the filing costs are small. You would have to give up anything over the limit. Use Google under "Small Claims Court" and see if your state has a site. If not, check with your local court about the limit.

12bluex

Traceya,

I feel your furstration and hopefully it can be resolved.

Few more suggestions before you go to the time consuming lawsuit direction (I apologize if I missed some of the previous posts and asking questions that may have already been answered).

1. Has dealer officially diagnosed it as the oil sludge problem?

2. Can you post the mileage for each oil interval changes and who performed the oil changes? (we may be able to give you advice from 3rd party point of view)

3. Type of oil used prior to the notice sent out is more than likely irrelevant since the original owners manual just recommened API, etc. etc. which dino oil 5W-30 qualified. The latest oil sludge notice just superceded that so along as you now use VW.502 approved oil (=synthetic) from here on out, warranty for 8 years is still valid.

4. Quickest solution is always working with the manufacturer instead of attorneys. It sounds like you didn't get past the phone rep which is bit unusual (but not unheard of). If you're polite, you should be able to get the name of the VWofA Regional Rep. I would still go towards the negotiation route before you go towards the nasty route (which can be combination of lawasuit, media, etc.)

5. Is there anything else wrong with the Passat other than engine seizing?

If you can post some more facts on this board, we may be able to better help you.

600kgolfgt

After reading these posts, I made a call to my dealer this morning and asked the service department rep what brand and grade of motor oil they use to service the 1.8T engine (I have a 2003 Wolfsburg Jetta with the 1.8T). The rep said they use Castrol 5w-30. I asked if it was Castrol Syntec, and the rep said "not necessarily". Disturbing. Looks like I will go the oil change route of my 97 Jetta and insist on synthetic (until the warranty runs out). After that (assuming I keep this car), I will go to my trusty VW mechanic (who uses the proper oils and filters). The VW dealership will not see me again in life.

imidazol97

It might be interesting to have another car dropped off at the dealer that's supposed to get the synthetic oil like the Passat 1.8t and then have someone knowledgeable check to see if synthetic was put into the engine by that dealer.

Could be relevant negligance if customer wasn't getting oil required by VW in the past which contri buted to sludge buildup.

I would certainly want to know that in court if I were a juror deciding how to split damages here.

traceya

Thanks to all for your responses.

12bluex...here are my answers.

1. Yes, the dealer officially diagnosed sludge problem.

2. I don't have the mileage intervals handy. They are at work. But, suffice it to say it was every 5-8,000 miles.

3. Currently VW's strongly recommends Synthetic oil. That is it. I am sure they don't want to open themselves up and say Oops! Now you need synthetic oil.

4. Actually my inability to get past a phone rep is not unusual with Volkswagen. During my research I have been doing it is actually quite common. They have a very bad system in terms of customer response and basically shut you out. I am angry but I was NOT unreasonable or abusive at all to their people. I was trying to be logical and curteous the whole time. They just have major roadblocks to helping people.

5. Nothing else wrong with the Passat.

As a follow-up to previous info. Volkswagen has denied my claim. Service manager at the dealer is suggesting I not fix the car (the value with what I owe and the cost of the repair makes this whole deal very upside down financially). He is working on providing me the best quote possible for repair if I decide to go that way. He recommends trading it in and taking a $3,000 hit from a dealer rather than investing $6,000 more dollars.

The whole thing is a big mess. I bet in 6 mos. there will be 1,000 of people with my issue. Now they have put a name on the issue it will be more apparent.

traceya

Thanks to all for your responses.

12bluex...here are my answers.

1. Yes, the dealer officially diagnosed sludge problem.

2. I don't have the mileage intervals handy. They are at work. But, suffice it to say it was every 5-8,000 miles.

3. Currently VW's strongly recommends Synthetic oil. That is it. I am sure they don't want to open themselves up and say Oops! Now you need synthetic oil.

4. Actually my inability to get past a phone rep is not unusual with Volkswagen. During my research I have been doing it is actually quite common. They have a very bad system in terms of customer response and basically shut you out. I am angry but I was NOT unreasonable or abusive at all to their people. I was trying to be logical and curteous the whole time. They just have major roadblocks to helping people.

5. Nothing else wrong with the Passat.

As a follow-up to previous info. Volkswagen has denied my claim. Service manager at the dealer is suggesting I not fix the car (the value with what I owe and the cost of the repair makes this whole deal very upside down financially). He is working on providing me the best quote possible for repair if I decide to go that way. He recommends trading it in and taking a $3,000 hit from a dealer rather than investing $6,000 more dollars.

The whole thing is a big mess. I bet in 6 mos. there will be 1,000 of people with my issue. Now they have put a name on the issue it will be more apparent.

12bluex

Traceya,

Sounds like you did what you can so far correctly. Another word of caution is the trade-in offer from the dealer. They may be sincere or they may have other motives.

Here's what I would do next:

1. Call the office of VW of America (not the customer service line). Their phone number is 248-340-5000. Ask for either Mr. Gerd Klauss, President of VW of America, Mr. Frank Witten, CFO, or Mr. Steve Keyes, Director of Corporate Communications, in those orders. What will more than likely happen is that they will not be available but you'll probably be redirected to the higher customer service director/manager/supervisor than who you been speaking to so far.

2. Explain your situation stating the oil sludge problem, your maintenance record (although not perfect but not neglect like how it was stated in the Wall Street news release of owners going 20K miles without oil change) and you feel that your repairs should be covered by the warranty. See how they respond.

3. Make sure you document the conversation, including who you spoke to, their title and their direct phone line, if any, and provide copies to them. Get the person's information prior to start of the conversation about the issue. Their fax # is 248-754-4930. Their mailing address is 3800 Hamlin Road, Auburn Hills, MI 48326. Make sure you print the transmission confirmation for fax and/or certified mail with return receipts (I would recommend mail more than fax or do both). This is to communicate to them that you're documenting everything, preparing for the "next step", if necessary.

4. If they continue to deny, neglect your claim, then I would get clarfication on the letter that we all received to see if they are taking position that if you don't change oil exactly at 5,000 miles or before AND that you have to show detailed proof for all of the oil changes, all claims will be denied? Write all of this down and if they are not willing to work with, I would then suggest (after all of the above has been documented) that you'll foward the paperwork to the journalist who covered the VW notice at Wallstreet Journal and hint at the possibility that this is VW's marketing gimmick rather than taking responsibility for the design flaw.

Again, I don't think you'll have to get to threats. There are more than likely will work with you to solve your issue.

I would also pursue the small claims court route to if all of the above falls. But make sure you document everything from who you spoke to (if you haven't already so far), what time, the content of conversation, what was quoted by them, word for word, just in case.

These are all suggestions but you're the one who has to take the time, spend bit of money (phone bills, certified mail, court fees, etc)so you'll have to ultimately decide what you want to do.

I have managed to solve lot of my issues in life with steps like above (although stressful and time consuming).

Please keep us posted how this goes.

snarks

You abused the car and mistreated it. So no, VW should not pay whatsoever for your engine. You went over the required oil change mileage by over 50%. Of course the normal oil would turn to sludge. I would not fault VW in your neglect on with your car.

I could understand maybe 1000 miles or less over the change interval. VW is correct in their response news statement that most owners encountering this issue went well beyond the recommended oil change interval with conventional oil. Toyota stated the same thing.

traceya

Snarks...do you get out much???

Abused? That is comical. Please do not respond to my posts again.

Thank you.

snarks

Sorry wrong word, should be neglected not abused. And no VW should not pay as they would go bankrupt paying for engines that owners did not take care of.

dudleyr

I think you will find the oil change interval in Europe is more like 10k. An occasional 8k is not abuse if the level is kept at full.

snarks

Yes if Synthetic oil was used and its speced for European models 10k is fine(they have much higher quality oil there). However VW recommended 5000 miles partially because owners may take it to the quick lube and get sub par oil in the sump.

600kgolfgt

Based on the info given about the 5000-8000 mile intervals, I would have to agree with snarks' statement (although it could have been worded better) that VW shouldn't have to pay due to owner's neglect. I can see a 5000-6000 mile interval (for conventional oil) to be within a reasonable margin. Anything over that range, and you're basically cooking the oil (think of what happens to cooking oil when you add it to a frying pan that is too hot - it turns from amber to brown in nothing flat). Sorry...

luckyjedi

Hi guys. I am in the middle of a purchase of a used 04 4motion glx with 1800 miles and I got it at a very good price ($25k) and I have searched everywhere to see if there was anything wrong with the car and couldnt come up with any dirt. The car has come up clean on every search. Wondering if any of you might know anything of this car. Here is the vin# WVWTH63B14P141890. Any info would be much appreciated. I just dont want to end up with a dud. ATM the only reason I can think of why the car is so cheap is that the car is a wheat beige color. Btw I am buying this car off ebay. I hope there is no dirt to be found. Just to let you know the price was a buy it now price and wasnt a time ending auction.

Thanks.

platola

Skipping back a couple of pages to the manual transmission issue. FYI Mark, I was told by 3 Audi dealers in my area (L.A.) that they didn't have a single manual transmission A4 on their lots. I was told that although manual isn't officially being phased out, local dealers are ordering very few.

I completely understand that many...make that most...people prefer to drive automatics these days, but I'm saddened to see manual transmissions becoming extinct. I agree that it's primarily the result of low demand -- which honestly surprises me with regard to the Passat, since virtually every review of the car indicates the 1.8T with manual trans. is the best combination for this car. Having test driven the Passat in various trims and transmissions 6 separate times during the last couple of months, I have to agree that the 1.8T manual was, to me, just more fun to drive than any other combination, even in rush-hour traffic.

Alas, I can't agree that the tiptronic is an adequate substitute, at least for those who really enjoy driving manual transmissions. Which isn't to say that it isn't useful and even kind of fun to use, but it really isn't the same thing.

In any event, I bought a new Passat this week. I got the V6 with automatic transmission -- I figured if I can't find a 5-speed with the options I want, I might was well go with the bigger engine. So despite mark's urging to buy manuals to keep them alive, I've given in to the majority. To be honest, it also had to do with what another poster (sorry, I can't remember who) suggested -- age related physical limitations that have made using the clutch a little more difficult than it used to be.

I've only driven my new car about 150 miles so far, so I'm not ready to give a full review yet. I'm enjoying the powerful engine and quiet ride (it's worlds away from my '94 Honda), but I have to admit that so far the Passat GLX is a bit...well, boring. With the car doing virtually everything for me, including controlling the A/C, locking its own doors under certain circumstances and accelerating to 80 mph with barely a nudge, there's just nothing much to think about while operating this car. Something tells me I can get used to all this luxury, though...

taft4

I smiled when I read luckyjedi's posting about his pending purchase of an 04 4-Motion when he wrote, "ATM the only reason I can think of why the car is so cheap is that the car is a wheat beige color."

When we purchased our 04 GLX V6 in April we had our dealer search the Chicago area for a sedan in wheat beige. In the whole area there was only one and we were delighted to get it.

Our choices are always so subjective and it must drive the manufacturers nuts in trying to figure out what most of us want.

dudleyr

Sad about manuals. Self fulfilling prophecy though. Dealers don't order any because most people don't want them. This makes them hard to find, and people who would buy them buy the automatic instead, thus further reducing the demand.

If you want a manual, then insist on it. If you settle, then you are hurting all of the rest of us who want one. : ^ )

luckyjedi

I know alot of people seem to have trouble with the 1.8 4cyl version of the passat but has anyone had any trouble with the glx 4motion variety? I just really want this passat! I want to get this car with full knowledge of the vehicle, good and bad. I fell in love with the passat when I test drove it at the dealership just couldn't commit to their deal of wiping my bank account and my wallet out along with stripping me of my clothes. I am so psyched about getting this car that I am even driving it back 1000 miles from where I am picking it up.

BTW I am just wondering if it is possible to replace whats in the center console with a nav system. Not that I will or will not get one but just curious if I can.

machaan

My friend had a '99 Maxima for which he once did not change oil for 16k miles. It was still running like a top when he sold it at 85k.

If VW is blaming oil changes at 8k for engine seizure, it speaks volumes of their quality and engineering.

ivan_99

I see nothing wrong with 8K oil change intervals...or even required 3-4K intervals.

I think manufactures end up dropping the ball when marketing starts to dictate engineering policies/practices.

Every manufacturer would like to say their automobile requires less maintenance (therefore less $) than the other, but it seems that by "over estimating" the interval they've hurt their reputation more than if they just stated "change the oil every 4K".

It would seem, to me anyway, it is more desirable to have a higher maintenance car than to have one that is unreliable and potentially fail, just to save the consumer an extra 25-50$ per year.

snarks

VW slightly admits they should have been stronger in recommending A3 spec oil (synthetic in US). Most cases you will find cheap oil coupled with extended intervals beyond 5k were used. They have stepped up to the plate and are warrantying engines for 8yrs/unlimited mileage. The engine is hard on oil especially due to small oil sump(design flaw). The sump is small so most owners who never check oil stress it when there is only 3 qts or less available to lubricate the motor. VW should have just speced synthetic oil only in the first place as this holds up fine at extended intervals.

Lastly, a major factor is type of driving. If its nearly all short city hops and in a cold climate then this is very hard on any oil on any car.

imidazol97

The major factor may be driving style with shorter trips that don't help remove contaminants from the oil with periods of hot engine driving. The second is the use of cheaper oils by quick change places, even the name brand ones. The third is the extended interval some drivers think are okay. The fourth is probably some hot spots in the engine where the oil travels as in the Toyota problem.

I'll be no one who changed their own oil between 3 and 5K and used a name brand out of the bottle has had engine failure, despite short trips and/or hot spots.

307web

It's not just the oil. If you use the extended oil change intervals recommended by some manufacturers (7,500 to 10K miles), you need to use a very high quality oil filter. Either the OEM filter or a high-end aftermarket oil filter (not a cheap generic or Fram filter etc.).
If you exceed the maximum intervals recommended by the manufacturer, you give them justification to void your warranty.

birdboy1

I am looking for a suggested company to consider when my 2002 1.8t passat hits 50,000mi. I have had my share of the reported problems with her and would feel better if the warranty was extened , especially considering what repair costs are on this car.. thanks

600kgolfgt

14K between oil changes.

Hmm, let's see:

99 Nissan Maxima - V6 (non turbo)

1.8T engine (turbo)

Big difference.

Normally aspirated engines generally do not produce as much heat as turbocharged engines do. So running 14K between oil changes will result in greater consequences for the 1.8T than the V6.

altair4

You wrote:

I think you will find the oil change interval in Europe is more like 10k. An occasional 8k is not abuse if the level is kept at full.

Is that 10k miles or kilometers? Post a link?

imidazol97

"I think you will find the oil change interval in Europe is more like 10k"

Is that the easy highway recommendation or the severe service driving that most people do?

dudleyr

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/company/press/lower_polo

http://www.vw.co.uk/services/servicing/longlife_service_regime

There are plenty of refferences to the extended oil change intervals in Europe, but the two above are for VW. One articles says up to 30,000 miles with synthetic.

imidazol97

of sensors in those articles, and lots of "up to" terminology. I also see CAstrol GLX LongLife II oil mentioned, a specific, single oil recommendation???

Hardly makes me think this is for Chicago driving to and from work in summer or winter mileages...

dudleyr

Many US cars have sensors now as well. BMW, some higher end GM cars, MBenz. Yes they are talking up to 30,000 miles and that is not the norm, but they jsut have different standards there (yet the same engines).

Here the norm is/was 3-5,000 or so and there it is more like 8-10,000. Yes they have a higher grade of oil, but we have synthetic, and synthetic blends here as well. In fact the new 5w-20 that Ford and Honda use is synthetic blend.

imidazol97

Are the engines required to have the same emissions control on them as in the US?

snarks

The synthetic we have in the US is a much lesser quality than what is sold in Europe. Mobil 1 and a few others (Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple) are true synthetic. The others are called synthetic in the US but would not meet European spec whatsoever and could only be called conventional. If you notice on the bottles of synthetic here of most except Mobil 1, they state not for sale outside the US.

mrjette

Did anyone recently get the $1000.00 customer loyalty rebate on a new VW? The build a VW website lists it when building a passat, but my dealer has all sorts of limitations on it's use.

Basically, an '05 Passat GLS TDI for $26,000. They will give me $13,800 on an '02 Jetta GLS TDI with 29K miles. The rebate is the stumbler as of today.

Any thoughts? Thank you.

craigeric

The rebate is available with VW financing....however, you should be able to finance for a very short period (say 3 or 4 months) then pre-pay and still get the rebate. Finance a minimum amount for a minimum period.
Your dealer should be able to work with you since its no sweat off his neck...its a VW rebate.
At least that's the 411 in the NE region.

fish8

I was able to take advantage of the VW Loyalty rebate. You can use it when you lease a VW as well.

What restrictions are being placed on the rebate?

mrjette

The web shows a $1000 loyalty rebate for trading in a VW on a VW. It does not say it is only for financing through VWCI (at a higher rate than my local credit union) nor does it specify model years (2004 vs. 2005). It just shows that the customer is entitled to a $1000 rebate. Period.
 
If you visit the incentives and rebates section of Edmunds website, there are no stipulations or limitations listed there either. That tells me that the information released from VWoA is not specific enough. Look at any other rebate listed and the manufacturer is very clear about limits and stipulations. Why would VW put information out there, and get people thinking they have some money coming to them, only to lead to disappointment in the salesroom?
 
I think this is deceptive and an aweful business practice. Hardly a good idea when the product is fairly good.

mattman

I have a 2000 Passat and the batteries in the key died. I replaced the batteries with the same series and now neiter of the keys will work to lock/unlock the doors or the trunk.

Is there something that needs reset or something?

fish8

I would call the dealer to confirm, but I would think the remote will need to be reprogrammed. Which can be done at any VW Dealer.

onlysurfer

Checked under the hood and noticed that 2002 Passat V6 4motion has low fluid in the Reservoir with green cap. Is this power steering fluid ? Can I buy it from a local autoshop ? (I have misplaced the manual and would like to save a trip to the dealer)

Thanks in advance for your help.

mrjette

Is there an image on the cap? That may guide you.

onlysurfer

Thanks for the follow up.

IIRC, there was an image which looked like steering wheel but it wasn't too obvious. If this is power steering then which fluid should I buy. The reservoir is on the right side, about a foot behind the front head lights.

mrjette

I'm leaning toward windshield washer fluid. On the '05, that is the color and location for the bug juice. They tend to put consumer refill items in an easily accessed place, while items that rarely need to be touched (steering or brake fluids) are out of the way near the firewall. Look at the size of the container; if it holds like a half gallon, it is not power steering fluid.

Instead of a steering wheel, could the image be a windshield with fluid squirting onto it?

altair4

Ummm, I think the windshield fluid has a blue cap, at least on my '03. I'm guessing that the green cap is power steering fluid (which should be topped off with VW spec fluid).

onlysurfer

Now the the "check Engine" light came on, I will be taking her to the dealer. The remaining fluid inside doesn't look like windshield washer. Not sure if the check engine and this are related. The car is serviced well, regularly at about every 5k miles. Hopefully this will be one of those "wait while they fix" repair...