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coverage if you go to *MSG #460...In addition, #203-#224, #485-#506, #565-#588.
And Cliff is certainly correct in his last, but that is what makes it fun! Enjoy!!!
Checked Lasher and Niello today and still no sign of the "set-up" I'm looking for. Oh well, there's always next weekend.
Although resale value is a factor (I always thought that Camry had a very good resale value but I guess not quite as high as an Accord or a Passat), my main concern is reliability. I think if it weren't for the fact that CR gave the Passat a lower reliability score, in spite of excellent scores everywhere else, I would be scraping together the bucks to get a Passat hands down. It's hard to be reassured about that, however, I realize that it involves many different things, such as comfort in taking risks. No car is perfect and I'm sure not all Passats are complete "lemons". But looking at the overall picture, I have to think hard about this whole reliability thing. And is it more expensive to maintain the Passat as well?
Other more general questions: what does the length of the wheelbase really mean in terms of driveability and handling? Is a longer wheelbase better? Or does it depend on the vehicle? For example, I did a comparo (either on Edmunds or cars.com) on the Camry, Passat and Accord, which have wheelbases of 105.2", 106.4', and 106.9" respectively. So which is best in this regard?
Also, I have always wanted to understand what the difference between horsepower and torque is. I have heard many different explanations that didn't make much sense, so may someone here can finally clarify this for me. In that same comparo that I did for the 3 cars, the results were:
Camry: 194hp@5200/torque 209@4400
Passat: 190hp@6000/206@3200
Accord: 200hp@5500/195@4700
All 3 cars in my comparo were V6 engines. I'd love to know what these figures really mean in terms of performance, speed, and takeoff.
As usual, any and all feedback is welcome and appreciated. I have plenty of time before deciding on which car to buy, but I want to understand all the angles before moving toward a decision. I must admit that it kinda sounds like the Accord might be my best bet, but I'm still not sure. So, bring on the comments!!
Regards,
SilverCrown
Sounds like you get new cars often(2000 camry) so the whole reliability thing might not mean a lot in your situation. As far as maintanence...who knows?..I've never drove away from a major service on a vehicle of ANY BRAND and thought to myself "WOW! that was cheap"
As for performance I think that the Accord V6 might be a little faster but that you would find the Passat the most rewarding to drive. If performance is what you REALLY care about...get the Nissan Maxima.
High torque at low rpms gives good low end grunt(low speed acceleration).High horsepower gives higher top mph,not very useful in the US.
Silvercrown,you sound like me in considering cars.Resale is an economic issue,but selling any car with meaningful life still in it is not economically practical.So I would think resale would be a non-issue,in that a thrifty buyer knows he will have the car for quite a while.
The Passat will most cost more to run most definately,and i am also fairly sure it will be the least reliable over,say, 8 years.
But to me the Passat is light years more fun than either the Accord or the Camry.If you are a car lover,buy the Passat.Trust me,you will not regret it for a minute.I have no rational explanation,but I think the VW is one of the wisest buys on the market in that it is just so much fun to drive! All the major Japanese cars I respect, espically the Maxima,but I don't love any of them.The Passat I consider a 4-door Miata.
I am a couple of days away from leasing a Passat(GLX w/out 4 Motion). What is the standard money factor and residual. Also, could you provide me with a calculation of what my monthly payment would be if I were to lease this car($1000 over invoice).
thanks,
Did you really buy a Catera?
Whats a VW Taurus?
So, finally drove the Audi A4 1.8t Quattro and Passat GLX 4Motion this weekend. Wow, to say there was a substantial difference between these two and the Subie would be an understatement.
First, the Passat. Incredible room, front and back, never would have thought it possible. Power and performance were more than adequate, it was just fun to drive. Looks, well, I love the looks. Aside from the fact that I see too damn many of them on the road. Tiptronic was convenient and fun. BUT...here are the problems I have with the Passat. I want the 4Motion. I live in WI and have learned the value of AWD over the years. It's worth every extra penny. Yet, with the Passat, if you choose the 4Motion you lose 5 cubic feet in the trunk AND the 60/40 folding rear seats. With kids on the way, this bites.....HARD. AND, what's up with the 2 year/24,000 mile warranty? I've read all the postings before me so I see I'm not alone in my concern. And reliablity? I'm not getting any warm fuzzy feelings from the last 40 postings either.
Next, the A4 (...kinda ironic how I keep correcting myself from typing A$). Love the looks, handling was superb, 1.8T had plenty of spunk for my tastes, and darn nice gas mileage. Layout of interior was very nice, as was the Passat. Trunk space actually blew the Passat away, plus you got the 60/40 fold down seats in the A4. Oh yeah, you also get the CD player standard. And the 4 year/48,000 mile ALL-inclusive warranty, pretty dang nice. SO, what's my prob with it? Room; back seat is almost non-existent. I'd be quite embarassed to have to ask someone to sit back there. Yet, how often does this EVER happen. We're a young family, it'd be years before the kids would start squeeling about not enough room, so why should I care about a few times a year when someone has to bend into a pretzel to sit in the back?
As for price, the A4 and Passat, as driven, had almost identical stickers. I'm guessing I could move a little more on the Passat than I could on the A4, but won't know for sure until I get down and dirty with'em.
OK, long-winded I know, but consider it my plea for help. My wife and I are very torn over this one and any input would be VERY welcome. Particularly points that I could be completely overlooking.
Thanks for any help,
JB
Those are the Factory Scheduled ones at 5K, 10K, 15K, and 20K...The
Customer's only expense is a Tire Rotation...$20-$25 at 5K & 15K, and this is
required to be compliant with the Tire Warranty provisions...Tire Rotations are
covered in the 10K & 20K services.
So, finally drove the Audi A4 1.8t Quattro and Passat GLX 4Motion this weekend. Wow, to say there was a substantial difference between these two and the Subie would be an understatement.
First, the Passat. Incredible room, front and back, never would have thought it possible. Power and performance were more than adequate, it was just fun to drive. Looks, well, I love the looks. Aside from the fact that I see too damn many of them on the road. Tiptronic was convenient and fun. BUT...here are the problems I have with the Passat. I want the 4Motion. I live in WI and have learned the value of AWD over the years. It's worth every extra penny. Yet, with the Passat, if you choose the 4Motion you lose 5 cubic feet in the trunk AND the 60/40 folding rear seats. With kids on the way, this bites.....HARD. AND, what's up with the 2 year/24,000 mile warranty? I've read all the postings before me so I see I'm not alone in my concern. And reliablity? I'm not getting any warm fuzzy feelings from the last 40 postings either.
Next, the A4 (...kinda ironic how I keep correcting myself from typing A$). Love the looks, handling was superb, 1.8T had plenty of spunk for my tastes, and darn nice gas mileage. Layout of interior was very nice, as was the Passat. Trunk space actually blew the Passat away, plus you got the 60/40 fold down seats in the A4. Oh yeah, you also get the CD player standard. And the 4 year/48,000 mile ALL-inclusive warranty, pretty dang nice. SO, what's my prob with it? Room; back seat is almost non-existent. I'd be quite embarassed to have to ask someone to sit back there. Yet, how often does this EVER happen. We're a young family, it'd be years before the kids would start squeeling about not enough room, so why should I care about a few times a year when someone has to bend into a pretzel to sit in the back?
As for price, the A4 and Passat, as driven, had almost identical stickers. I'm guessing I could move a little more on the Passat than I could on the A4, but won't know for sure until I get down and dirty with'em.
OK, long-winded I know, but consider it my plea for help. My wife and I are very torn over this one and any input would be VERY welcome. Particularly points that I could be completely overlooking.
Thanks for any help,
JB
And the only real world difference is that one has a trunk and the other has a tail-gate!
Take one for a drive...You will LOVE IT!
I bought my Passat GLS 1.8t w/ auto,leather, sunroof, and cd in Dec. It is by far the best car I've ever driven. My brother has a BMW 328ci and it doesn't even compare (I also love that car). The PAssat is such a solid car. I'm also so glad I didn't get the V6. anyone that says the turbo isn't enough is crazy. Of course, the V6 has more power but the 1.8T is great. I had a 1986 Mustang GT and at times I feel like I'm driving that again. I hope you all enjoy your Passats as much as I do.
Passat designed and built in Germany.
Camry in the U.S.
Read the Camry forums before you decide that the Camry is more reliable, in the real world, than the Passat.
Buy what you like. No car is reliable. Each car will have it's problems.
The Passat is the most attractive sedan on the road,bar none.I've admired them since they came out in 98.The high arched roof espically gives it a very modern feel,instead of a real hokey "modern"like the Cadillac Evoq concept.So i hate the idea of wood inside-that was stagecoach trim.
I had great reservations about turbo motors,but the back of my mind was probably just remembering things like the early 80s Mustang turbo 4-remember that handgernade,anyone?A lot of talk of turbo motor oil "cokeing".But in the end I just decided to stop trying to consider all the angles and just buy the car.And I have to say that with the 5spd this car is making me insanely happy.I feel I should be working-I think the car is just AWESOME!Anyone thinking of buying one and who is a car nut(I realize a lot on this board have a more consumerist outlook)should just buy it.
Really not sure what I'm going to do. Honestly, from what I've seen, the looks of the 2002 A4 don't thrill me at all. Looks like a mini-A6, and in my mind, that's not a compliment. I much prefer the current styling.
And VWGuild......as for your comment about the Passat wagan. If I had half a brain, I do exactly what you suggested. However, "the boss" isn't thrilled about a wagan. She'd really like a sedan; wagan makes her feel old. A fact we should probably just "get over." The perfect choice would probably be the GLS Passat wagan with 4Motion and a few do-dads added on for good measure. Price is acceptable.....just that damn 2 yr./24000 mile warranty. Anybody know how much it is to extend?
JB
When it came time to replace the old 92 BMW 3 series in 2000 I was set on an A4 or another 3 series BMW - until I discovered the Passat - you can't beat it's value. I've done $7k in performance upgrades to the Passat and still don't have $30k in it, amazing performance and value - I enjoy terrorizing 325's/ 330's, IS300's,
I found Alexandria VW to be rude. I thought that Stohlman had the best selection and prices....they are the third largest dealer of VW in the U.S.... Springfield seemed to have a nice selection as well. Fairfax VW/Volvo was okay, but again, they insulted me with their negotiation process. I felt like Stohlman did not really want to pussyfoot around, just as I didn't. All the other dealers were so typical.
Just my experience of course...
and are negotiable; shoot for a number under $1000. And make sure that
you stick with that Brand name...Accept no substitutes. There is only one
VW endorsed product...And there are Warranties out there that are in
fact only pieces of paper. If your Dealer is not an authorized Masterguard Dealer
there will be another in town who is...
Want to *jazz up* the wagon look? Go to www.tirerack.com
and check out the wheel upgrades that you can do...Chrome BBS are nice..17"
So you haven't had ANY problems with Passat? And, is it correct, VW pays for schedule maintenance for 2 year/ 24,000, similar to Audi (just 2 years shorter).
For the record, here's what they're telling me right now. The local VW dealer has gotten in a load of 2001.5 Passats, but still has about 6-8 2001's, of which, two are 4Motions (1 GLS all loaded up in Silver, 1 GLX in white). The GLX sticker is about $31500 and the GLS is about $30500. Dealer claims he won't move from the sticker on 2001.5's, but is willing to wheel and deal on both of these 4Motion 2001's. I didn't have time to dicker with him that day, but plan to check them out. Anybody have any guesses on what I could expect to pay for either the GLX or the GLS ($ over invoice). I've figured out the invoices and notice VW has a 2% hold back.
Heck, if I could find a GLS without leather, in 4Motion with most of what I want on it, I'd certainly live.
Last thing, is there any way to find out everything that IS included in the 10yr/100,000mile powertrain warranty?
JB
www.stohlmanvw.com
I would go talk to some other dealers. At least in NC, for the sedan, it is normal at this time to get within $500 of invoice including all fees. Just add tax and tags.
Dave
The base C-Class starts just under $30k. For the same price or less, one can get a fully-optioned Passat GLX w/ 4-Motion. The only advantages offered by MB is a longer b2b warranty and more prestige. I enjoy driving a "sleeper".
cliffyb: just to clarify a point, although my Camry is fairly new, I'm looking to buy a car next year that I will want to keep for a long time. I like my car well enough, but I can already see that I don't want to keep it for the long haul. That's why reliability is still such an issue for me.
merckx: thanks so much for the explanation on the wheelbase/torque issue. It made a lot of sense and now I can evaluate the cars better.
I still have lots of time and there's really no rush to make a hasty decision. I guess the next thing to do is to take some test drives and see for myself. I'm dyin' to see what makes the Passat so much "fun to drive". A "4-door Miata"? Look out!!! :-)
I plan to test drive an Accord and a Passat in the next couple of weeks. I will post my impressions on how they compare to my Camry and to each other. I guess this is the fun part ....
Regards,
SilverCrown
I really enjoy hearing all the comments on the Passat. It's been great in helping me focus and know what questions to ask and what to look for.
Good luck!
Oh, the service at Stohlman was just like any other place. So-so. Depends on the day.....they never screwed me over if that is what you are asking. They seemed nice.....I never really had any experience with them, luckily.
You seem very in favor of the VW Masterguard Warranty. Care to elaborate? Figuring out the warranty is one of the last things I have before I get my 2001.5!
I just wanted to interject into your conversation on DC dealerships.
I travelled all over DC and got a feel for the price of a Wolfsburg Jetta and ended up squaring a deal with Farrish in Manassas VA.
I think they are an excellent dealership to deal with because they are way out there, and the volume of customer is less. They are itching to sell - contact Alex or Jeff
I'm a week away from buying a 2001.5 LX with 4Motion for $30,500.
I'm looking for Silverstone Gray with Beige leather, which is very hard to find in the NY area, so I'll have to order. Could someone suggest what an appropriate deposit amount to put down would be (on credit card off course)?
Also, is the Masterguard warranty better than the major after-market brands? Any thoughts on what it might cost?
Thanks for the input.
I really like Mercedes, but the value of the Passat wins hands down IMO.
Seems like a good deal if you can get it.
Andrew
regarding the existing VW Warranty's 2year/24000 B2B...as opposed to
more typical 3/36 or 4/48. My response has always been that this concern
can be easily put to rest by adding a VW Masterguard Extended...Why
Masterguard?
Well, first of all, it is a VW sponsered product, and will be honored at any
Volkswagen dealership in the US or Canada...no questions asked! In addition,
it is put together in such a way that it complements the Factory Warranty.
It is also real! I continually find it hard to believe, but there are people out there
who are driving around with *extended warranties* that are little more than pieces
of paper. There is nothing behind it...absolutely nothing. Money was received and
that is the end of that. Dealers just take the money, and send it off shore, I guess.
Kind of a secondary retirement plan.
A Manufacturers Warranty is always the way to go, whether it be VW, Ford, or
MBZ or GM. To me it is just the smart thing to do if you are looking to add
that additional level of protection.
However,I take delivery of my Passat tomorrow and I am actively considering the possibility for the first time. My Credit Union offers an extended warranty by Intercontinental underwritten by the Gulf Insurance Group (Traveler/Citigroup). One of the main advantages of this extended warranty is the ability to have extended warranty service performed by any mechanic of my choosing, dealer or otherwise. (Where I live there are a couple of very well respected VW independent specialists). With this source, I can also decide to buy this coverage anytime prior to reaching 18,000 miles without penalty. I do not know the purchase grace period if any for the VW extended. I hope there is one so I can study the details of each and have the time to make a good comparison. In addition it gives me some time with the car to make some judgment if I really want the coverage.
Can you shed any light on this? Thanks
Dave
to *term life*...the older you get the more expensive it becomes.
If you are picking up your car tomorrow; take the inf. that you have from
Gulf with you to the Dealership and compare it to the Masterguard
contract. The Finance & Insuracnce Manager will be able to help
you with that.
This will also be the time that you can probably negotiate the best
financial arrangement because the car is brand new.
the store...And I cannot tell you how pleased I am that you passed...Way too
much money for a No Name Brand...Too much Money for the real thing!
Congratulations on your Great New Ride !!!! Good for you...Welcome to the
land of VW Blue...No Poem intended; just came out that way.
Talk to you tomorrow...PS
with a major world bank the best *Due Diligence* is done by the client...after all,
it is your money, and you are the client. All I can do is respond to your question.
You asked for my opinion and I gave you my steadfast reply...If I buy something
at Cartier; I don't go to Tiffany's to get it fixed...You make the call...