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Comments
It sounds like you want to start a "mutiny".
Seriously, it's a great car, I love driving it and this is really my first problems. It's just a pain to have no radio reception and no taillghts on a car that is less then 2 years old and only has 35k miles on it... out of warranty. These are the classic "electrical problems" that VW is infamous for.
The reason I leased it was because it was my first VW and I was leary. I admit that I'm glad I don't own it.
All I'm saying is buy an extended warranty. Maybe you won't need it, but if you do, it could save you a lot of money.
you might be very surprised at the result....
Since we have moved to our new platform, we no longer have the requirement to stop and restart discussions after the numbers of posts exceed a certain limit. Since this discussion can continue as long as anyone has anything to say about Passats, there is no longer a need for the "Part VIII" that has been included in the discussion name. Down the road, that could confuse our newer members so I have removed it.
Also, please check out the Additional Resources Box on the left sidebar. You can read Edmunds favorable "First Look" at the restyled 2002 Passat, as well as check out pricing information on the current (2001) models.
Pat
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Please give me more credit then that. I've been super fair on the forums about this problem. I'm not dumping it at all.. it's a lease, it will go back when scheduled.
It is annoying to have 2 different electrical problems happen at 35k. They shouldn't happen, and with any other manufactureer, it would be coverded under the standard warranty. Does it give me pause? Yup. Am I frustrated and annoyed? Yup, but I'll fix it and hope for the best.
My headlight switch will be here today, bought from a helpful Club B5'er for 1/3rd what the dealership wanted. I'll look into fixing the antenna lead myself, or get a stereo shop to do it.
I haven't TRASHED this car once, not even a bit. I've only noted my problems and expressed frustration. We've traveled these forums "together" for a long time Rick and I can't help feeling a bit flamed by your unfair comments. Sorry.
Dave
Now to get the radio problems fixed. I am going to take VWGUILD's advice and try to politely push my dealer to do this under warranty. Since they changed this connection with the new cars, VW clearly knows it is a problem. I'll keep you posted.
You know what gripes me about you tail light problem is that the cause seems so piddling. Your radio is the same way, but it is certainly not a safety issue. It's not that it's a system-wide failure. It's just one of those sensor/relay/widget annoyances, which if VW ever corrects (i.e. new suppliers) would clear up many of the reliability issues.
It's not that the Passat is only one plagued by these annoyances. Owners of the New C-Class have been reporting difficulty with opening their trunks and needing software presets for their $43,000 vehicles.
First a little history: I bought my first new Passat in 1976, a Dasher Wagon with a 1 year warranty. Electrical systems were very problematic as well as the skill level of the dealership. I always had to take the car there twice for any servicing. The second time was always either to fix the original problem right or a problem created by the first servicing. After the first 6 months I always made 2 appointments 2 to 3 days apart. I always needed the 2nd appointment and the service department never got it.
The point of the above is that it is just not the dollar cost of fixing something out of warranty, it is also a matter of time and convienence. (We also owned a little red VW Polo wagon when we lived in France for 3 years,'84 to'87, that was no problem what-so-ever.)
In '87 on return from France, we bought 2 Honda's, an Accord and a Civic. I had decided that I would only buy cars of better than average reliabiity at that time as determined by Consumer's Union. If you look at this Consumer Union's April Car issue on reliability, VW's and other European Cars are now at the reliability level of '87 Honda's. Although rated average on reliability, if my new Passat approached the trouble free ownership of those 2 '87 Hondas I will be a really Happy Camper.
be taken of by VW...
Why do you always sound so angry??? And naive? What is the expression?
**** Happens?
Checked out Edmunds TV for this model. The invoice is $27,737 and the TV is $28,723. The MSRP is $30,375. Thus, there almost a $1000 mark-up for the TV. Is Edmund's TV too much of a mark-up? Seems like some people in this discusion group are getting Passats $700 over invoice.
Planning to buy a 2001.5 Passat Sedan and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with putting a roof bike rack on their Passat Sedan. I know it won't do anything to enhance it's appearance, but I am a bike fanatic.
I am a bit worried about the bike rack interfering with the sun-roof's operation. Could this be a problem?
I was also planning to add the wind-shield scoop that lies close to the sun-roof. Would that intefere with a bike rack?
Regardless of the bike rack is this wind-shield effective? I was planning to buy it because I think it would cut down on noise when the sunroof is open. I am very sensitive to sounds as I have to wear hearing aids when people are driving with me. Thanks for your responses.
I love driving this car, it really does "feel" so much better then my previous Honda and Mazda. But with 35k miles and less then 2 years since new, the headlight switch shouldn't just burn out, and the radio connections shouldn't just corrode.
Now, on top of the time I have already spent, I need to fight with my historically inept local dealership to get them to fix something that is clearly a design flaw and not my fault. I'm not looking forward to it, believe me.
I love my VW, and I'm not dumping on it at all, but the b2b warranty is clearly substandard. So if you want the extra touches that VW offers, I recommend you cover your bets and pick up some extra b2b warranty. I've spent quite a bit of time looking through dealer's leftover '01 Passat for a possible great deal, to buy, to replace my leased car. If I find what I want, and get the deal I want, I will extend the 2b2 to 5 years, 60k miles.
In particular, I'm looking into 4cyl wagon/manual. Please advise.
The new Passats have 170hp 9though some suspect it is 180) and are only a few pounds heavier, so as long as you have a manual tranny, the 1.8T should be more then enough.
The wildcard is your towing needs. Not sure about that but suspect the V6 might be better for it.
VW's are quality cars. If they were not, they could not command the premium prices and still sell like hotcakes...simple logic there. If a car is bad, the market will find out, and it won't sell so well. Yugo - sold at first - then no more. Excel - same. Audo 5000 when the "automatic acceleration" scare happened - same thing happened. VW is only selling more and more and more cars each year. Everybody does not think that VW's are crap...and the warranty must not be of much of an issue either. I personally think it is not so much because they are better, but because Honda/Toyota quality is slipping. Without the bulletproof reliability, there is no reason to pick an Accord/Camry over a Passat....and the public is realizing that as time goes on...
http://www.auto.com/autonews/cwirh17_20000517.htm
VW's cars are pleasing to drive and sit in and even to view. But its quality control is undeniably low.
BTW, high sales numbers have little to do with the public's perception of quality...Fords, GMs, etc all are renown for poor build quality yet the number one selling SUV for the past five years (the Explorer) ranks 139th out of 200 cars. Obviously people aren't that interested in quality otherwise Ford wouldn't move so many Explorers.
That means the car is actually a good, fun, safe, and stylish car. Just think - people buy them KNOWING that the quality might be spotty, the warranty is not so great, etc. What does that say? Also - keep in mind - the powertrain warranty is one of the LONGEST in the bus....10 yrs/100k miles...
BTW, I do think the 1.8T is one of the best engines ever. Longterm reliability in CR shows that with the A4.
i do agree that the explorer has a bad rep. but look at the people that buy them. a lot of them are into buying american. the explorer is by far the best AMERICAN midsize SUV. Durango and Blazer are horrific. same with Mustang - not the best car, but holds up much better than the american competition.
I have owned my share of Camry's, Maxima's and various other Asian makes and have had excellent luck with them. I feel that I am more than qualified to comment on the quality, or lack of it, of my wifes '00 Passat V6.
The car is built as good, if not better, than some of the "benchmarks" that I owned in the past. My advise is this, put down the Consumer Reports, or whatever other data source that you are using and buy what you find is most appealing to you.
If one is willing to take the chance, then so be it, but I can't see myself gambling 25k on say an American car ever. As for the Passat, it's middling numbers in JD Power Initial Quality and the CR recommendation do make it a pretty safe choice (though the dismal warranty is still cause for concern). It's a darn nice car.
Researched what? The thing that CR says is the best to buy? No thanks, I made the money, I will spend it on what I want. Let me ask you, if Governments can be bought, what makes you think 'ole JD himself is above that? That firm seems to pass awards out for anything that someone is willing to pay for. Just what is "initial quality" anyway. If you really analyze the term, it is sort of an oxymoron. Quality is a judgement passed onto a product AFTER it has withstood the test of time, not 6 months after ownership. Just ask the folks who bought Hyundis in the late '80's. The perception of quality is what you see when you purchase an item.
Tell me, since you do all of the reading and make it clear that you do not buy Fords as a result, what would you buy that would substitute for an Expedition? A Tahoe?
Suppose towing capacity was not an issue for me and I needed someone to make up my mind for me and read the owners "comments" on the Sequoia board. That might be enough to scare me from that vehicle as well.
You know what they say about opinions...........
"The firm’s quality and satisfaction measurements are based on actual customer responses from over one million consumers annually. "
Empirical evidence is pretty hard to deny. As for Consumer Reports, I've yet to see any proof that their data gathering is flawed either.
Long term reliability data is available from both CR and JD Powers, thus one can compare and see if the same glaring problems arise. Say a vehicle is new on the market, well checking the data from the company's other products could also hint at possible problem areas.
I didn't say buy only what either JD or CR suggests. But utilizing those tools I think more informed buyers would avoid problem makes or at least be forewarned what problems to expect with a model.
As for your query about SUVs, I don't know as I rarely read anything on them (no use for SUVs). I know Toyota recently released its own versions (Highlander and Sequoia) of those behemoths and Nissan supposedly has one coming too. Although off hand the best substitute for a Expedition/Tahoe might be the Toyota Sequioa version as the manufacturer has established itself as a leader in quality vehicle manufacturing and initial reviews have been stellar.
Above all, people should buy what they want, but I think most people make that purchase uninformed.
It boils down to a few things, but one is: can you live with knowing that you wanted an awesome VW but bought a Camry instead? When your buds at work get in your car at lunch and ask why you did not get the Passat you were salivating over, what are you gonna say? That JD POWER liked the Camry better? Get ready to hear crap about that for the rest of your life. Everytime you see on the road the car that you wanted, you will hate yourself. I know from experience....
I will sum it up like this...Both Consumer Reports AND JD Powers would rate ME far from perfect, in need of entirely too much maintence and terrible in the gas department BUT my wife would not trade me for the world (or so she says).
My point: when you are passionate about something (while a material object is no substitute for a mate) you deal with its problems.
Trust me, after almost 300k on 3 different very competent Asian sedans, there is very little there to be passionate about. The Passat on the other hand........
While I'm sure Consumer Reports does mostly good work--they definitely have problems and biases. An example of a problem is when they give disparate ratings to identical components/systems on cars which use identical parts (ie: different GM divisions). An example of a bias and "flawed" data gathering was the absolute hatchet job they did on the Isuzu Trooper a few years ago. Isuzu won that case (but wasn't awarded damages).
By the way, how many of you have the 2001.5 Passat? It looks good!
I've done more than my share of research on buying this Passat (I've had my eyes set on it since the redesign in 99) and put simply, it's a sharp car. The warranty length is bad (big deal), some people have problems, some don't, etc. etc. etc. There are plenty of people without problems and people with vehicles that have 4/48k warranties and still have numerous problems after the warranty is up.
I feel you're basically flipping a coin when buying a car when it comes to quality and dependability. It's one of the many journeys in life!
I think Passats are wonderful cars regardless of the puny warranty, BTW. Fun, nice looking, great interiors. Really love the feel of current VWs.
BTW, someone asked what makes a Passat different from a Camcord...The interior first off. VW's have feeling, from the silicone in the grab handles, to the dashboard layout and lighting to the steering wheels. The cars don't feel quite as cookie-cutter as their Japanese competition. It feels European, reminding some of MB and BMW.
The drivability is also quite different. It's not just about numbers. There is a solid-ness and purposeful stance/road holding that the Passat and all VWs seem to have when compared to direct competitors.
I was talking with a friend about VW's and he said, "It's the little thoughtful things that set them apart." Take one for a spin and you see it. drive it in twisties and at night. Get a feel for it in different settings. You'll see.
I'm a designer, so how things look, the asthetic, is high on my list. I liked how clean and "strong" the Passat looked. The short overhangs, the complete lack of extraneous flash and extra plastic... great lines. :-) The interior felt so much nicer then the JPN competition too, much "richer." Whereas the Accord interior looked and felt like an 11/10ths Civic interior. Not "special" in any way with more hard, shiny plastic then a Tonka factory.
Probably the #1 reason I chose this car was the interior space. I simply fit better then in the Accord, Camry or Maxima. I'm a big buy so it's a major factor for me. The wide range of seat and steering wheel adjustments were best in class in my opinion. The Accords's seat height adjuster gives you about an inch of travel... the Passats is easily 3 times that. Also, of the Accord, Camry, Maxima and Passat, only the Passat allowed me to sit as comfortably upright as I like. The Accord had me in a full lean... way too uncomfortable. The Max and Camry were a bit better. With the Accord, Camry and Maxima, my seat is all the way baack. With the Passat, there is room to spare.
So it's a great choice for a big guy! :-)
As everyone else says...drive one and you will see!
Carguy says the 6 is much quieter. Granted I didn't test drive the 6 but I did not notice a lot of engine or wind noise with the 1.8.
I think the real difference though is in the $$ and MPG.
Take them both for a drive and see what you think. Only you can really make that decision.
Good Luck!