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Comments
I thought the GLI would be the same as my GLS 1.8T, but I guess it was not.
Passat seems to be extremely stylish and very German, even the tires were made in Germany.
Lexus has excellent warranty and reliability and high resale value...anyone? I am leaning towards Passat at this point due to the fact the Passat is a fun car to drive and as stylish
as come at around $26K for a 1.8 T GLS loaded with leather and sunroof. I also seem to have
a tough time deciding on which color combinations I like the most, blk on blk is awesome, so
the blk(inside) on silver and finally grey interior on blk exterior...anyone? Finally and finally,
if I was to buy the Passat I would like to at least upgrade the wheels to 16 or 17 inchers, 15s
are nice tires(after some researches on TireRack.com) but they seem too small for a non-compact car, has anyone upgraded their 15s on GLS to 16s or 17s?? What kind of tires
did you use, all season or performance? I didn't see too many 17s out there that are all season
tires, I prefer to have a somewhat LOWER profile look and LARGER alloys but not over board
like a street racer. Has anyone noticed that the VW accessory alloys are priced very very high
like $250-$350 a piece. This is probably due to the fact they are Audi parts, I saw that Audi
has exact same design and part names. Any comments welcome!
Of the three combinations you listed, I would go for the black/grey. It is also my top choice - tied with Blue Anthracite/Grey.
/vb
The gray leather didn't do it for me either. It looked "cheaper" than the black leather. Again, my personal opinion (no offense to those with either of those colors).
While I don't necessarily LIKE black leather interiors (I had one in the past - burns the buttocks in the summer time), personally, I think it's the best interior color (if going with leather).
I love the beige interior of our '01 RX300. If the Passat's beige was the same color, I'd have gotten that in a heartbeat.
-Craig
contrast. On the other hand, black does seem to be more rich and yes will burn my [non-permissible content removed] in
the summer but still has a slight edge in my book, it just seems that German sporty cars
that are black with black leather stands out in a crowd. As to prices , the GLS 1.8T auto,
monsoon luxury and leather sunroof is listed exactly at $26800 and I believe Edmund's
invoice is right around $24500 and this price includes 2% dealer hold back. I have gone to one dealership in Kansas City MO, I ask what the car is selling for they told me only around $500 off sticker, that's a bunch of %&$... My father just brought a brand new MB C-class and they give him $500 off just for good business. Passat is nice and moving upscale but it will be a long time before they can charge sticker or anything near it with ease. I have gone to another dealer ship weeks before they had $2700 off stick on all of their Passat cars. I have noticed that there are
plenty of Passat on the dealer lots, lots of GLX and just about same for GLS you should have
no problem offer the dealer $300-$400 may plus some reasonable fees, around $500 is what I
figured to get a out of door price. Any dealership hasn't let their ego gone over their head would
take this kind of offer any day. Shop around you will be surprised.
'02 GLS 1.8T, 5 speed, Leather, Luxury, Monsoon
One was Indigo/Black
One was Silverstone Gray/Black (the one I bought)
Both were $24,000 including port/ad/floor fees of $267. This was $16 below Edmunds TMV (purchased on 4/6/02).
Tax, title, doc, etc. were extra.
Have 510 miles on the odometer. Loving every mile.
-Craig
Thanks,
Scott
However, if I were you, I'd think twice before putting down that much money on a lease. Sure, it lowers your monthly payment... but if by some stroke of ill fate you're in a car accident and the car is totaled, you're completely out the down payment. Gap coverage will pay the balance owed on the vehicle only. And now you've got to buy a new car, and you have nothing to put down.
Instead of putting $5500 down, why don't you try to get a lease with NO money down? You can put the $5500 into a savings account, and withdraw a portion of it each month (for instance, 1/24th of it, if you do a 24 month lease) to send toward your car payments.
You can play around a bit with figures on leasecompare.com, too. You should check it out, and try putting in different down payments or lease terms.
No money down.
Term (24, 30, 36, 39) months that is appropriate (but never 48 months, unless you are really low low milage annually)
Put the cap cost reduction away in a income producing device (i.e., put your down payment into an investment -- even passbook savings)
Make the payment you would have made as if you had made the cap cost reduction (down payment) and withdraw the difference from your "income producting device" over the period of the lease.
My CPA (not that this makes him a car buying genius) told me to either buy outright or lease with no money down -- not finance, not make a down payment -- buy or lease. He said leasing makes (generally) the most sense for someone who has a legitimate case for some business use of the car. He leases his cars -- I started leasing in 1978. I have been very happy.
This may not apply to you -- to each his own. But a down payment on a lease just doesn't compute.
But, it does seem that you have a good deal otherwise.
Very snooty if you ask me - joe consumer.
Totally bad example but the Ford Explorer option to go from V6 to V8 is only $800
The 330i is at this new Vdub pricepoint and no amount of hp makes the Vdub come even close to the total BMW package. Sorry, almost 40K for a VW??? Uh Uh
I'm very disappointed. I so wanted that car. $33 was my company lease cap.
the price structure of the W8...I am also sorry
that the BMW is about $7500 above your *Lease Cap* as well...Gee...according to www.bmwusa.com
a/o about 5 minutes ago, a 330i Without All Wheel
Drive, and of course a 6 vs. the 270HP W8, and with $2500 Drive Off, the payment is only $789.00
a month, Plus tax...
Maybe you would be better off with a FWD GLX
Passat for about $32,125.00
The content of the Passat W8 (as reported in magazines and web sites) makes it perhaps (for one year at least) the biggest bargain in European cars going (in the US).
As I have noted before, it is way under anything that could even be reasonably called comparable from BMW -- and here is the kicker -- it is way under a comparable Audi (which makes me ask "does VW intend to 'eat its young'?")
I think you (John) should re-evaluate the content and performance of the US bound W8 when compared to Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Saab, Volvo, etc. I think VW will "sell out" of the 5,000 W8's allocated for the US. In fact, if it is possible, I think Vw of America and its dealers and customers will beg for more -- and I think the first 5,000 will go for full MSRP (hopefully no additional dealer markup).
Now, I say all of these things as a loyal Audi (and several VW's) owner for the past quarter century. I do not know how they can bring so much car (the Passat W8) to the customer for so little money.
Value for money arguably is the Passat's most appealing attribute. It offers a combination of virtues not found elsewhere in the low-to-mid $20K's range; but that value already is diluted at the low $30K's where a GLX 4Motion wagon can be found. At $40K+, there are other appealing cars without the lingering question mark concerning long-term reliability, and without the great variability in the quality of the dealership network.
From reading the posts on this board, it would seem that a good number of people see their car(s) primarily as either a status symbol or, worse, that which that defines who and what they are. These folks are not going to get $40K+ worth of ego stroking or personal identity from driving a VW. If you go to VW Vortex and read the VW-Audi press release puffery written about the W8 and the Phaeton, it is obvious that this status-driven customer is precisely at whom the marketing of these cars is directed.
The W8 Sedan has an MSRP of $37,900...Not $40,845.00...This is a $6325.00 premium, but the point is not really in comparing this car to a
GLX...We are not competing against our own products..
As Mark mentions, in the world of 8 Cylinder, All
Wheel Drive cars; with one of the best Safety Records out there, and with one of the best Warranty Packages...This car stands pretty much alone...
And although the 5,000 unit count has been tossed
about frequently, more up to date intel, puts this
number closer to 2,000...
I am first and foremost impressed with the value (apparently) that the Passat W8 brings simply because it appears to "outdo" cars that should be at least considered in its "peer group."
vwguild can probably cite rhyme and verse the features and content of the new Passat (and compare them to a GLX 4Motion Maxed out).
Besides, when you look (for example) at an Audi A4 with a V6 and then at the then available S4 with a turbo V6, the price was about $5500 more for the S4 than the A4. $5500 for 60HP you might say -- demand was not an issue, the S4 like the upcoming Passat W8 was (is) also a bargain in my opinion. And, it is just an opinion. Your opinion is also valid.
I do not wish to fight over the point, although a decent argument could be fun -- I say if you are looking at a high $30K car and do not consider the W8 Passat, you may regret it!
also debating on which kind tire would give me a lower profile look as well as durability...
My father said that most of the low profile tire would only give 20K tread life. Is this true?
I saw a 01 Beetle Sport on display at the mall, it had some special 17s alloys with dark color
very very sharp, I wondered if they would look good on the Passat GLS. These alloys and Michelins had the look that I was going for. Would these alloy and tire combo work on Passat as far as installation goes?? Any comments appreciated. The link to the pictures of the
17s is http://www.scottvw.com/news/news_19.html
If they are summer tires or all season tires, there are trade offs. I have used, with good results, ultra high performance all season tires and maximum performance summer tires. I live in Cincinnati -- which has "moderate" winters most of the time.
Both of these tire types do not provide "long" tread life. Personally I would be happy to get 20,000 miles out of this type of tire. I would not count on it, however. You get great performance not long tread life. At this point in technology it basically goes with the territory.
As they say you can usually have the following great performance, long tread life, and/or reasonable price -- pick two.
Most of us go for great performance and reasonable price. And, frankly, I don't know of too many tires that offer great performance and long tread life at any price point.
Realistically, for that premium - what more (other than the HP) do you want in the car? The car is perfect - thus my argument.
And, of course, re-badging doesn't always work - look at the Catera and the Cimmaron - Commodores and Cavaliers couldn't be made into luxury sport sedans any more than sow's ears can be turned into silk. People have enough trouble accepting a $30K "PeoplesCar", one at, or close to $40K will be an even harder sell, IMO.
I probably will buy another Passat just before the change-over to a Golf, rather than an Audi platform, but it probably will be another 1.8 Turbo. I really like the idea of high value for money, and the 4 cylinder Passat is hard to beat at that game.
I have owned several VW products -- I have owned dozens of Audi products. I like them both very much, and to this day consider them both to offer the highest value of the European (especially German) brands.
A W8 Passat when compared with/to a maxed out Passat GLX w/4Motion is some 20% more money. The "content" as I have noted still makes them a major bargain when compared to anything that is in the "content" range of the W8.
I know the BMW lovers will howl, but the W8 Passat can be compared to the BMW 330xi in many "content" and several performance ways -- but the BMW will cost much more. And, if the Passat is offered with a sport package option (which knowing VW would probably be between $750 - $1,500) some of the handling prowess that it lacks (when compared to the BMW) will be greatly enhanced. It would still be a bargain. For those who care little for the hood ornament, which I think is pretty much true of Audi and VW owners in geneal, the Passat will be a magnet.
It is not just the motor, there are other features that if they were optional on a Passat GLX would raise the price there too. Bigger wheels and tires, Bi-Xenon lights are but two of said features.
I will go so far as to say that I think the Audi A4 -- and probably the A6 3.0 quattro -- will feel the competition from thw W8 Passat (at least for one year, while the new Audi A6 and A8 are readied for market).
I think the W8 Passat will be a sell out.
On the other hand, the Phaeton seems like it might be priced too close to the Audi A8 and the Mercedes S class -- the motivation to buy the Phaeton might be AWD if that is the case.
The Phaeton needs to compete more with the Mercedes S class than with it's first cousin the Audi 8 series.
We may continue to disagree -- and your desire to spend $37 - $39k for a VW Passat is just that YOUR DESIRE -- I cannot imaging the W8 Passat being anything less than a major hit for VW -- and then the prices WILL really go up.
Y'all can say what you want about its price, but it is the LOWEST PRICED 8CYL GERMAN SEDAN SOLD IN THE US. Is it expensive for a VW? Yes. Is is expensive for what it is? No. It is twice more car than a C320, and 3 times more car than an X-Type. Don't take my word for it, drive the car.
No more Candy White, Ink Blue, Blue Silver, Pine Green and Colorado Red Colors for W8: Black, Fresco Green, Mojave Beige, Silvertone Grey, Indigo
Blue, Reflex Silver, Pacific Blue and Blue Spirit
Homelink navigation in luxury package
Standard cold-weather package for all Passats
Standard side-curtain airbag protection for GLX
V6 4MOTION for GLX only, no longer for GLS
No more Monsoon stereo upgrade as stand-alone option
No more grey interiors (includes cloth, leather
Also, GLS will be called GL and Sunroof will be standard on all GL for 2003, as well as a double din sized stereo cd player.
Does anyone know the pricing info? And if a sports package will be offered on the 03s??
However for my money a 1.8t Passat w/ leather for about 22,000 is still way more car than I really need. It will handle just as well if not better than a w-8, It will get much better fuel mileage, the interior is still great, it is much faster than I will ever need, or care to go. It is quiet enough inside, and isolates me plenty well from bumps etc. If you offered me the two at the same price I would still choose the basic Passat, but then I am really not into the whole my car has a bigger engine than your car thing, and I have no need or desire for AWD.
Is the W-8 better than a basic Passat? I am sure 99.9% would say yes (I am a rare exception). Is it 73% better (the amount extra over a base Passat) I doubt it, but then the amount we pay for cars isn't linear.
As you go up in price you pay more and more for less and less, until you get to the point where you are paying for such intangables as name, mystique, heritage etc.
I must also say that as an architect it frustrates me that some people are so willing to pay so much for a car that has capabilities they will never need or use, but when it comes to a house (that they will spend much more time in than the car) they have no problems w/ vinyl siding, cheap fixtures, hollow doors, general ugliness etc. etc. Probably has something to do with the fact that you can't be seen while you are in your house.
I am being general, of course there are many many exceptions.
Off of soap box.
No more Candy White, Ink Blue, Blue Silver, Pine Green and Colorado Red Colors for W8: Black, Fresco Green, Mojave Beige, Silvertone Grey, Indigo
Blue, Reflex Silver, Pacific Blue and Blue Spirit
Homelink navigation in luxury package
Standard cold-weather package for all Passats
Standard side-curtain airbag protection for GLX
V6 4MOTION for GLX only, no longer for GLS
No more Monsoon stereo upgrade as stand-alone option
No more grey interiors (includes cloth, leather
Also, GLS will be called GL and Sunroof will be standard on all GL for 2003, as well as a double din sized stereo cd player.
Does anyone know the pricing info? And if a sports package will be offered on the 03s??
Here's the link to VWvortex's 2003 VW Model Change listing. The Passat information is at the bottom: http://www.vwvortex.com/news/index_my2003_1.html
GLS will have more standard equipment and less option with the added sunroof. Too bad
there is no mention of price increase. Also, howcome the horsepower remain the same when
Jetta's 1.8T get 180 horsepower? This doesn't make sense to me. Was ESP offered on 2002
GLS?? I think the 2002 GLS with 1.8T, leather, monsoon, sunroof, homelink, and auto was stickered at $26880. Will the new GLS with all of the same equipment be more in price?
I wondered if they had put in a double din sized more upscale audio unit and larger wheels
this year.
1. The 4 cylinder turbo takes 1 second to accelerate after hitting the gas
2. Seems like alot of people are having alot of squeeks and rattles.
Are these true? I've heard of turbo lag, but they're saying the car won't even move for a second after hitting the gas....what's up with that?
Thanks!
(Turbo lag with the 5-spd. is not an issue).
Second question - are they discontinuing the Blue Silver exterior in 2003? This doesn't seem to be a very popular color here on the West Coast, though I really like it.
color for 2003...Only deletions are Ink Blue &
Pine Green...
And Dirito has no 5 Speeds as of this morning...
I now own it, and it is sold...But they will be happy to order a 2003 for you...
the same engine is configured to make 180 in Jetta and the new Beetle? Also, has anyone noticed that with the 15s on the GLS the car has plenty of wheelwall space so has anyone
tried to lower it and installed bigger tires(16s or 17s)? I seen the 16s on the Passat GLX they
don't look as lower profile then say Acura TL or some BMWs. I also noticed that on the W8 Passat the ugly Euro anntenna is gone replaced by a small platstic dome object and to me it does look more sophsicated. I am eger to see all of the final revisions to Passat for 03s other than what has already posted on VWVotex.com, such as pricing info, options, design revisions.
Any comments welcome!
Now as far as "what's up with that" from a technical standpoint, I do know that this engine is very capable of being tuned to a minimum of 350HP and in non street legal form (one must presume) over 400HP. European car magazine will, from time to time, feature this engine with some turbo, exhaust, other breathing aparatus and chipping changes at HP ranging from 195 to 400HP. My wife's 2001 TT has 225HP as does the European Audi S3.
If any engine deserves the name "the little engine that could" it is this one.
Now that the quasi engineering stuff is behind us, I would venture two reasons for the HP variations 170 & 180. One is breathing -- in some cars, the breathing (i.e., intake and exhaust) is such that more HP "just comes naturally." In some configurations it is likely that the HP that has been wrung out of a given displacement was the "optimum" design at that point in time. The breathing argument, however, seems a bit unlikely NOW -- i.e., I cannot think of any technical reason a 225HP 1.8T could not be put in a Passat or an Audi A4. I also can't think that such an engine would be much of a reliability concern either.
Here is reason #2, IMO, that we see these HP ratings of apparently identical engines: (broadly speaking) Marketing. Moreover, I think there are some "mistakes" that have been made recently that will sooner or later be corrected.
Some positioning thought needs to be incorporated into some of what is done with respect to bringing a certain "product" to market. For example, it was "OK" to bring a TT to market with 180HP from its version of the 1.8T -- at that time, the only company that was put in a less favorable light than it might like to have been put in was Porsche. The 1.8T was in an Audi S3 at 225HP, it was in the (short) pipeline to come out in a TT. So? The Boxster, which costs thousands more than a TT could feel Audi's hot breath on its neck -- ta da the Boxster S to the rescue. Face saving in some respects, in my opionion.
Couple such things with the German laws regarding how cars are taxed (size & HP, etc) and we have totally non technical reasons why HP ratings for essentially the same engine are all over the board.
Now, for right or for wrong, the pecking order in the VW/Audi world places Audi over VW. The Audi 1.8T engine is the VW 1.8T engine. Anyone that says otherwise is trying to decide the precise meaning of the word is.
Here is what would be no surprise to see happen. With respect to the "sportiest" of the Audi and VW vehicles -- well they will probably always wring out more HP from an otherwise virtually identical engine, much like the TT came to the table with 180HP on day one, when the other Audis (the A4 in the US) got 170HP.
The sportiest VW's will, for marketing reasons, have some bragging rights on HP over, for example, a Passat. Clearly it is marketing, because there is plenty of real estate under the hood of a Passat to have a 225HP 1.8T with room to spare. In other words, it has noting to do with the technical capability of VW to engineer the 1.8T for all current US VW's to have the same power output (or, much higher).
I would rather have a 225HP 1.8T Passat than the 2.8V6 with 190HP. And, I would also take a 180HP 1.8T over the 190HP 2.8. Uh oh sales of the V6 might be hurt. Marketing to the rescue. Keeping the paper difference between the two engine offerings further apart "protects" (in some respects) the V6's sales -- even though, as noted, a 225HP 1.8T in a Passat would be fantastic (better balance, better economy, better performance all around than the 2.8V6).
Chalk all this up to positioning, politics and protectionism. The three P's perhaps.
The 3 P's are the reason(s) I predict that there will be in the next few years further efforts to clearly differentiate one model from another and one sibling from another. A Passat W8 will be less money than an Audi A6 3.0. A Passat W8 will be less money than an Audi A4 3.0. These could be troublesome especially for those of us that are not impressed simply by the brand name of the car. A Passat W8 will be FAR less than a BMW 330xi and probably about the same as a 325xi. When this comparison is made this is a good thing for VW, when the prior comparison is made it is possibly a bad thing for Audi, which even though it IS a separate company is at least a first cousin and at most a fraternal twin.
These things will have to be sorted out to protect Audi -- and Audi cannot be seen as having VW be more, bigger, better, cheaper -- especially when the family blood lines are so evident. I mean just look at a Passat and an Audi A6 (current models) -- the family heritage is oh so apparent.
Having a W8 Passat go head to head with an A6 3.0 and "win" the horsepower battle is bad enough, but when the W8 -- on paper -- "beats" the A6 2.7T in HP and cylinder count -- ouch, that's gotta sting (Audi).
The A6 is slightly bigger than the Passat, the A4 is slightly smaller. The Passat could be an A5 if such a thing existed. The fact that the W8 version has both HP and cylinder bragging rights and is thousands of dollars less than both the A4 and A6 (with 6 cylinders) causes problems.
I am certain I am technically incorrect, but IMO, the W8 Passat is THE BIGGEST BARGAIN in (4 door sedan) cars on the planet -- by a wide margin.
This cannot stand, when one of those beaten by said margin is a close personal relative.
Get your W8's while they are not only high value, but "cheap." It just cannot last.
+ Is the 2.8L V6 a variant of the 2.8L motor previously available in the Audi A4 and A6, or is it a variant of the VR6?
+ How much does the manu-matic Tiptronic sap power from the 1.8T? I've heard many complaints from Audi A4 Quattro 1.8T owners.
+ How durable are the velour seats versus leather, and how difficult is it to keep black velour clean?
+ Is the Passat assembled in Germany, or in Mexico?
+ How is visibility when changing lanes and backing up?
+ Do both available motors "require" premium unleaded fuel?
Thank you.
I have sat in a Passat, and the rear visibility was not that bad. Of course, I am 6'3 so pretty much anything's easy to see out of for me.
I have used regular gas for my 1.8T (premium is so expensive!) and it runs fine. The Tiptronic automatic does sap some power, but not alot from the 1.8T engine.
Also, I am pretty sure the Passat is assembled in Germany.
And lastly, the velour is hard to keep the lint off. That seems to be the problem with it. I would get the leather though, but I did in my Jetta.
The relatively anemic 2.8 at 190HP is often the second choice of those who have driven a manual Passat with the excellent 170HP (wink wink) 1.8T @ 170HP (wink wink). Some say the 1.8T in the Passat is claimed at 170HP but that it is really 180HP.
the next buyer of 1.8T hesitate or have concerns when comes to purchase a turbo car?
I have read that this is one of best turbo out in the market place and has proven to be
a winner even for the long haul. I am concerned that the resale value would not hold up
as good when compared to a non-turbo or V6 car. I am trying to decide between pre-owned
Lexus ES300 and Passat GLS. Both have many upsides, the obvious is that ES is a Lexus
with awesome CPO warranty and still a pretigeous label that holds its value, Passat is
more beatuiful in every aspect, drives like a true German and looks like an Audi especially in
blk on blk. Any comments? Thanks
As I from time to time click on the participants on this board, I (unscientifically) see (apparently) a lot of first time VW owners and a fairly large portion of "tire kickers" who currently have Japanese cars.
The history of "your" car purchases perhaps says a lot about the car companies and their products (in your mind). And, again it seems like VW is attracting a fair amount of first time VW buyers. On the one hand this is good for VW but on the other it may be telling that people do not repeat buy the VW brand or if they do they are not participating on this board (perhaps?).
Passat Sedan & Wagon
---------------------------------------------------------------
Like most of the other VW models, the Passat GLS models now have a sunroof as standard equipment. A Passat GL model has been added to the lineup which is available only with a 170hp 1.8T in 5-speed manual or 5-speed Tiptronic. The GL model is only available with Velour interior and offers Electronic Stability Program (ESP), Cold Weather Package and Monsoon Sound System as the only options. Fog lights have also been deleted from the GL model.
Big news at the end of 2002 model year was the 274hp W8 Passat Sedan and Wagon which carryover to 2003 with few if any changes. A Sport Package with 17" Alloy Wheels and Tires and manual six-speed transmission should eventually be added to the W8 lineup in coming months.
GL - Available with 170hp 1.8T in either 5-speed manual or 5-speed Tiptronic. GL options include Electronic Stability Program (ESP), Cold Weather Package and Monsoon Sound System.
GLS - Available with a 170hp 1.8T or 190hp 2.8l V6 in either 5-speed manual or 5-speed Tiptronic. Options include Electronic Stability Program (ESP), Cold Weather Package (heated seats and heated windshield washer nozzles), Leather Package (includes Cold Weather Package), HomeLink, and Monsoon Sound System. 4motion is no longer an option on the GLS model.
GLX - Standard with a 190hp 2.8l V6 with a 5-speed Tiptronic. GLX options include Electronic Stability Program (ESP) and 4motion all-wheel-drive.
W8 - Standard with a 270hp 4.0l 8-cylinder with a 5-speed Tiptronic or 6-speed manual (delayed intro).
Also that new car is going to have a full warranty, while the used car will just have what is left of the warranty - if anything. Compare the bumper to bumper warranty on the CPO Lexus, not the powertrain warranty. Any powertrain can make 100,000 miles these days.
The Passat needs more power from the 4 and V6. The 4 cylinder with manual is decent, but nothing special. VW is probably just keeping the power lower so it won't be in Audi (more sporty) territory. The other thing it needs is at least 16" tires on standard models. The interior is great though and it rides smooth. Why can't an automaker make a perfect car??
Not buying until the Fall, but I'm also considering the Altima 3.5, Maxima SE 6 speed, and Toyota Solara V6.