We bought a Honda a few years ago. (at Invoice with no trade and our own financing through the credit union...) needless to say they were not making much off of us.
Anyways.. the finance guy tried to sell us every imaginable upgrade there was... we said no.. no .. no .. no. It got pretty funny after a while. Finally I said .."can we go now"
We've been Passat owners for all of 28 hours!!! (and I'm listening to Moby right now). Here's some initial observations:
1. Just how in the world is it shorter than our 96 Accord, yet have so much leg room? It fits better in the garage, yet I get sit in the back and have a boatload of leg room (I'm only 5'5" anyway, but the Accord has a serious lack of rear leg room).
2. Oh my maude, how freaking cool are the dash colors?
3. It was chilly here in the Norfolk area...gotta love the heated seats.
4. Indigo Blue with the gray leather looks very sharp! I'm so happy we sold the Accord and are able to afford the leather.
5. We've developed the paranoia that comes with owning a new car...how far out can we park and how *dare* anyone park next to us!
6. After driving an automatic for two years, it's so nice to get back into a 5 sp. Sure, the Toyota truck and Civic are sticks, but to have a car like this in a 5 sp is wonderful!
Out the door, our Indigo/gray leather 5 sp 1.8T w/Monsoon (fought that one but hey, it's okay. Used to having a Rockford/Fosgate MP3 in the Civic) was $25K at Greenbrier VW in Chesapeake, VA. It was one of the easiest deals we've ever made; the SM and I made the deal over the phone and he didn't try to add any sneaky fees. Sure, the FM tried to sell us the extended warrantee but nope, not buying it. I drove it home (damn traffic on 64!) and DH has been driving since. We told our 2 yr-old son it'll be his car in 14 years!
So for those of you in my neck of the woods, keep an eye out for EVL PNTY! And we are looking forward to taking it to Ohio next weekend to visit my SIL (who's insanely jealous...bwahahahahaha!).
"No one can stop us now "Because we are all made of stars" ~ Moby
Anyone know anything about this? Goto the bottom of the link page. So far this pic has been denounced as a fake or at best a doctored pic of a Skoda Tudor showcar from the Geneva autoshow. Looks like a pretty nice evolution of the Passat platform to me. If true it might get my wife to finally give VW a look, for her next car.
I am still waiting for the seller to obtain title and then it's mine! Hopefully it will come in the mail on Monday. I even called VW credit myself to check on the progress so I wouldn't have to ask the seller what was happening every second. I was extremely anxious when we came to the agreement on price, but I had to settle down since I couldn't sleep and I was having dreams about it. This waiting is killer! I can't remember the last time I was so excited. You would think I was buying a brand new car.
Am I now going to be a faithful VW owner? I've never owned one before and I'm wondering if the next time I can afford a new car, will I go back to looking at my initial interest which was BMW. When I first started thinking of getting another car, I had my heart set on a BMW. Nothing else excited me besides the Caddy Catera and the Maxima. I realized over time that I simply can't afford what I want. So when the '99 Jettas came out, I said "hmmmmm that's nice looking car" and my eye followed it for over 2 years. I figured I would wait for my other car to die and then settle for the Jetta. Well, I wouldn't call it settling now, I call it a smart choice and although I changed my mind again and got the Passat, I am thrilled all over and I have no regrets and my old love (BMW)is forgotten.
Are there any current or previous BMW owners that now drive VW and like it just as much or better?
I'll let you know when I get it. The first thing I'm doing is letting my mechanic do the front rotors and then I'm set.
My boy friend and I are going to Boston from Friday (5/24) to Sunday (5/26) to watch the Yanks kick butt, so I hope the car makes the trip ok. I'm sure it will be better then driving in his Jeep Wrangler for 4 hours. Yikes! What a bumpy, noisy ride.
Dont listen to that site...it is just some wannabe car guy looking for some attention. He photoshops nearly everything, and throws in a few real concepts to give himself credibility.
I'm the proud owner of a new passat glx 5 speed. I must say that that so far I absolutely love the car. But I have a question, it seems that literally EVERY switch, button, thumbwheel etc. lights up at night with one exception-the moonroof controls. Are they supposed to light up also? They don't in my car so I was just wondering. I couldn't find anything about it in the manual. Please post if anyone knows. DRAS
I can confirm that my W8 has lighted controls for the Moonroof. Cheers, - Ray Who now knows where another $1.98 of the cost diff. over a loaded GLX went . . . !!
I have again read the May 16th Wall Street Journal article pertaining to Audi and VW. Then I read the July European Car magazine, Road and Track and Motor Trend -- all the print about VW (and Audi) lead one to the conclusion that VW's are going to push upmarket, up price and that the W8, the upcoming SUV and the Phaeton (all of which should be in the US within the very near future) are the first forays into this rarefied (price wise) market.
Yet, here on the Passat town hall, I read so many posts that claim the W8 is overpriced, under-differentiated and other "put downs." Now, granted the VW dealer body has some 'splainin' to do -- but all this upmarket push and VW/Audi differentiation should be, IMO, applauded by all of us VW/Audi customers and prospects.
Moreover, the W8 is "only" about $5K more than a fully loaded GLX 4Motion -- it still seems like "nothing else even comes close" . . . for the price. And, even though there is only a 4% cross over (thus far) between VW and Audi (in that when a VW customer "outgrows" a VW Passat, only 4% of them move to the Audi family), it seems like the Passat W8 with 6spd manual and sport package (especially) will be a -- perhaps THE -- bargain of the decade and possibly "noticed" by some potential Audi A4 3.0 and Audi A6 3.0 customers.
Why all of the bashing? My dealer either has his already sold his lone W8 or it is always out on test drive -- yet the few W8 posters on this board seem to really like their new Passats. And, I assume they believe they have found that the W8 is a bargain to boot!
If I ever move up , eg - promotion, this will be on the top of my shopping list. To me the perfect luxury/performance mixture w/o the snob-tag assoc with the Bimmers, Benz, etc,
I just test drove both the Passat 1.8T and the A4 1.8T today, but unfortunately, the Passat was Tiptronic, and the A4 a manual. According to specs, both are nearly the same weight, yet the A4 really flew, while the Passat just didn't pick up as quickly, even in manual mode. I have a question for Passat 1.8T owners with manuals or for people who test drove both of the above cars: Is the Passat's (relative) sluggishness a product of the transmission from my test drive? My wife's Jetta 1.8T (Tiptronic and 10 more hp, 8 (I think) more ft-lbs torque) feels like a rocket, much like the manual A4. The Passat accelerated well, but not as strongly. Do your manual Passats really "get up and go?"
Regarding the question of whether or not a W8 is worth $38K (or whatever you can negotiate below that MSRP) and whether or not such an ‘up charge’ is worth it for such a visually similar (un-differentiated?) vehicle compared to other Passats:
Some comparative numbers that I find interesting, in this context:
325i to 330i is a $17K spread and therefore, the ‘loaded’ 330i can be over 60% greater in MSRP than a 325i.
And the spread of a 325i to a loaded M3 can be well over 100%! I happened to see 2 silver 3 series parked next to each other at the BMW dealer a week or so ago. One was a 325i coupe w/Sport package and the other was an M3. Staring at them from the rear: Except for the larger quad exhaust outlets on the M3, they looked VERY, VERY similar. (Gee, my W8 has quad exhaust outlets, too!) This particular M3 had a bunch of options, and the MSRP was about $57K!
Now, it appears to me that there are people who don’t have a problem paying over twice the price ($30K more) for an M3 that looks nearly the same (except to those who really care about and pay attention to such things) as a 325i. The question, then, is why would someone looking for performance and not externally obvious ‘flash’ or distinctively different looks have a problem with paying $17K more (and around 80% more?) for a W8 over a GLS 1.8T. Or, perhaps more realistically, about $6K (approx. 18 or 19%) more than for a ‘loaded’ V6 4motion w/Tip.
(Closer to home, I suppose that one could also look at the Audi A6 product line – running from an A6 3.0 FWD at $36K to the 2.7TT at about $40K to the 4.2 Q at $50K – and then the S6 wagon at $60K.)
At any rate, my personal answer to this question (since I bought a W8) is obvious. I could not possibly care less what anyone else thinks I paid for my car. Or how they might judge me based on whatever car I might be driving. And I very much like both the exterior and interior appearance of my car.
Now, I hasten to add that I do not consider my W8 to be comparable to an M3 in many respects. The point here is only that there is very little external / visual difference between two cars with dramatically different driving dynamics – and dramatically different prices.
The motor, the exhaust note (really addictive!), the brake upgrade, the bi-xenons, and all the rest (lighted moonroof controls!!!) make the additional price (once discounted) a rather attractive package. And I actually like the fact that it looks very similar to a lot of other Passats on the road. I believe that it is a very handsome car, certainly in a rather restrained way. And that happens to be fine with me.
[BTW: I drove a relatively loaded new Passat GLS 1.8T w/ Tip for about a week and 600+ miles while I waited for the W8 with the color combination I wanted to be released from the port in Brunswick, trucked to the dealer and prepped. And coming directly from this ‘loaner’ to my W8, the similarities and differences were quite interesting.]
Rumor has it that: A W8 Sport Package is coming. And a six-speed manual is coming. Some have expressed disappointment that these are not available (or standard) right now. The Sport wheels are likely to provide at least a measure of visual distinction for the W8.
I would not personally buy the six-speed. For several reasons. And the larger diameter wheels and wider tires that are expected to be part of the Sport Package might or might not be to my taste. We’ll see.
In the meantime, I will buy exactly what I want to replace the OEM Conti tires shortly. And I may also replace the wheels - with exactly what I like the looks of (probably 17” diameter) at the same time. Still deciding on how to proceed here. Or I may just buy a lower profile 16” tire (probably 225 / 50 Ultra High Performance A/S Dunlops or Michelins) and have them installed on the OEM wheels. And store the Contis for when I trade in the car.
As a side note, the list price of my previous car was: $38,135 (+ destination / delivery charges of: $560) And after some negotiation, I paid almost exactly the same price out the door for the W8 as I did on my Y2K Lincoln LS8 Sport two and a half years ago - in Nov. 1999.
Just my $.03 worth. (Adjusted upward 50% - to account for inflation.)
Anyway – that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it . . .
(YMMV)
Cheers, - Ray Who is still straining to adhere to the W8 ‘break-in’ schedule . . .
I just got the 1.8T Passat three weeks ago, everything's been great but the last few times when I started the engine, I noticed the engine was a much louder than it use to be, the noise lasts about a minute or two. Is this normal? Any ideas?
In addition to your powerful statements, let me include a list of items that further differentiate the W8 from the Passat GLX: 1. 4Motion - Standard 2. ESP - Standard 3. Bi-Xenons with Auto-leveling - Standard 4. Head lamp washers - Standard 5. Rear Window Mounted Antenna with additional amplifiers - Standard 6. Larger Disc Brakes(discs&calipers) - Standard 7. Rear Vented Discs - Standard 8. Extra Fuel Tank(5.28gals.) - Standard Total fuel capacity 21.1 gallons 9. Special Body reinforcements - Standard 10. Hydraulically dampened engine mounts - STD. 11. Upgraded: front wheel bearing housings, bearings, hubs - Standard 12. Upgraded rear wheel bearing housings with track -rod guides at both ends - Standard 13. Larger rear track width - Standard 14. Water-cooled generator - Standard
Plus the subtle styling changes...and of course, the PowerPlant...
I would just like to add that I very much agree with Ray's post regarding the W8. I think the W8 is a very intriguing and appealing vehicle. If I had $40k to spend on a new car I would much rather have a W8 Passat than a BMW, or even an Audi. However, make mine a 6 speed sport package please.
It is truly a testament to the overall quality of the Passat's design and construction that so many people on this list get so worked up arguing about how much better "their" Passat is than anyone elses. The 1.8t adherents have in the past been quite vocal, to the point of really putting down the V6, and now the W8. Hey, I'm sure the 1.8t is a great engine. However, I love my V6/5speed and frankly I'm not sure my wife would agree to trade it for the 4cyl even if I wanted to. Ray loves his W8 and probably saved a good deal of money over other cars that might have been on his list. I say to each his own. If you are reading this and wondering which engine/trans. combo to buy I suggest driving them all and picking the one that you like best and can afford. They are all good, and that speaks volumes about the total Passat package.
As for VW going upmarket: this does concern me a bit. I hope they still continue to offer products in all price ranges, as I doubt I will ever be able to afford $40k or more for a vehicle. The Passat already commands a premium price over similarly equipped competition (Accord, Camry, Taurus, etc.). I gladly paid that premium and am satisfied with what I got for my extra money. Just hope it doesn't become out of reach someday soon.
I just filled the tank on my new W8 for the first time. The trip computer calculated 19.6. My Excel Spreadsheet calculates 20.9. Of course I am not certain exactly how the dealer filled my car, but I just rounded the pump up to the nearest nickel. The second tank will be a more accurate indication, BUT:
So far, I am quite please with this gas mileage on a 'green' engine. I am trying very hard to follow the 'break-in' guidelines. I am varying highway speed, not using WOT, etc. And I used the cruise control for only long enough to verify that it works.
This first fill represents typical driving for me - 310 miles in and around the Metro Atlanta area. Highway speed from 0 (!) to just over 80 mph.
If things improve in this area as the miles pile up, I will be a VERY happy camper.
The rest of the car is also quite impressive.
Cheers, - Ray Who looks forward longingly to the sound and the feel of the W8 at WOT . . .
I hear the engine noise as well and my car (the same model and type) is almost a month old now. I think its a normal thing, although I have no technical reason behind it.
I have noticed a lot of brake dust settled on the rear wheel. I was told that the front wheels gather more brake dust than the rear one's. Is it normal with a Passat?
Hi, I visited another VW dealer who stated you should use no more than 87 gas and that 93 could actually hurt the engine. The premium rule only applies to Europe. This is the 2nd dealer who's told me this. I'm getting ready to buy a 2002 Passat GLS and I want to make sure I use the right gas no matter what the cost.
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.
Both the gas gap door and manual say Premium Fuel. VWGuild, I believe, has said Premium Fuel. My dealer said Premium Fuel. The advertising brochures say Premium Fuel. I never heard that higher octane fuel could damage an engine, only the reverse. What gives VWGuild? (I've been using 93 Octane since I got my 1.8T Passat a year ago and perceive no problems.)
I believe that VW wants to take its IMAGE upscale.
Here is what I remember from my graduate school marketing class.
Sony -- a Japanese brand, in an era when many things Japanese were thought of as "junk" or cheap or flimsy or just plain crap -- brought forth the "holy grail" of TV: the Trinitron. They were expensive -- truth be told, in most stores that sold Sony they were THE most expensive TV set the store carried. Over time, Sony has managed to keep its upscale image even though they are now sold at Sams and Wal-mart and Circuit City, etc etc etc. Furthermore, Sony has come out with some really cheap (inexpensive) products and have even differentiated their products with names that are known by those who are real fans of the brand. There is "plain" Sony and there is the Sony Reference Series. There are Sony "regular" TV's and Sony XBR TV's -- one costs a few hundred dollars and the other costs thousands. The name on the front of the product is the same, with the same logo -- SONY.
It is my belief that VW wants to create both an IMAGE and a market niche that is in some ways as my marketing professor described like Sony's. This probably means that all VW's will go upscale and up price -- but it does not mean IMO that a VW Jetta base price will leap to $29,995, even if such Jettas over time evolve. Conversely, I do believe that the method to the madness is that Audi will be at "X" price with the most sporting luxury image and that VW (at least for a few more years after the next step in the evolution -- The Phaeton) will be at "X-20%" with the most "classic" luxury image (accross the range).
I believe that VW's in the not too distant future will, universally, go up market and that their base prices will increase. Yet, I believe as this happens the "content" of the car will likewise increase. Perhaps, just as an example to make a point, the "base" Passat will be what we now consider to be a GLX and that it will go up from there.
For many reasons, and not limited to financial reasons, I am probably never going to be a candidate for anything Porsche sells -- and I know there are a couple of the models that I can afford. They are just not "saying anything" to me that would make me part with money. The Boxster is a great car and is good looking -- but for my money and my needs an Audi TT Roadster will get my money long before the Boxster -- even if they were identical (+/- 5%) in price.
There may be people who feel they will "never" be able to afford or "don't want" to afford any $40,000 car -- they may stop considering VW's as they march steadily up market.
Some people will never see themselves plopping down the money for a Sony TV -- even the cheapest one -- because there are still many competing brands that are WAY less (can you say Samsung?).
As the VW's evolve upmarket, up price, perhaps some folks who currently buy 1.8T Passats will find the same money (adjusted for inflation) that used to be able to buy a Passat will now buy a Jetta (although the content of the Jetta will be much higher than today's version).
VW is also, like every good capitalist company, looking to increase their unit profit. Generally speaking there is more profit the "higher up" you go in the range, becuase the premium in price that will be tolerated is generally only incrementally more expensive to make. Remember the days when only "rich people" had cars with power windows, door locks and cruise control? I think I have not seen even a Chevy Cavalier that lacks most power accessories these days -- the reason is they are pretty cheap, so they have become virtually standard equipment and standard expectations. Ditto A/C, power brakes, AM/FM stereo radios with either cassette or CD or both. The list goes on.
VW will be more profitable, have a better image, force dealership issues to fade into memory when they raise the price (but not without concomitant content improvements and dealership experience improvements) of their cars. It often works out that way. The end of the "cheap" VW has begun.
I am with Pkradd. Everything associated with the Passat 1.8t specifies premium fuel. My dealer also advised on the use of premium gas. Look at it this way, it is currently a benefit for manufacturers to advertise their engines can utilize standard 87 octane. Don't you think VW would want to do the same if they could? It's not like they are saving money by using the same manual in the U.S. as they use in Europe so they just left in the premium fuel reference. They print English (non-metric) manuals for our market anyway so they would surely change the premium fuel reference. Stick with the fuel recommended by the manufacturer.
Because of the increased compression of the 1.8T, Premium fuel seems to be the way to go...The $1.40 savings at the pump is promptly lost to decreased fuel economy. Additionally, I would suggest that any Dealer stating that it will run just fine on regular is trying to prempt an objection to the use of 91-93 Octane fuel. The engine certainly will not damaged, but why get a 1.8T if the 10 cents a gallon will be a burden?
Volkswagen's entry into this new market is based on a very simple philosophy...We want to keep our customers...
The VW Customer for decades has typically been the younger driver...However; as that driver reaches a certain stage in life we have had a void...and the customer has been forced to leave the Brand for an SUV, or a Sport Sedan, or a true Luxury Car...
Beginning with the W8, and with the Touareg, and with the Phaeton, we will be able to keep the VW Customer, poetically, from the cradle to the grave...:)
Thanks vwguild and arjay!! It looks like I need to try another VW dealer in Atlanta who's more honest. Unfortunately Metro Atlanta has only 5 dealers. Does anyone recommend an honest dealer in Atlanta?
Im curious, what steps is Volkswagen taking to improve dealership experiences that are so mandatory in todays premium car sales? It seems to me like a lot of VW dealerships are not equipped and not staffed up to premium dealership levels, and the only way to change would be to implement change directly from VAG headquarters.
vwguild: "Beginning with the W8, and with the Touareg, and with the Phaeton, we will be able to keep the VW Customer, poetically, from the cradle to the grave...:) "
Interesting.
Well - it happens that my first car was a 1961 [old?] beetle, purchased (VERY) used in 1969, while I was in college.
And now 30+ years later I just bought another one - a new W8.
There have been many (MANY) cars in between - but no other VWs.
Cheers, - Ray Who is relatively certain that this is not exactly what VW has in mind . . .
Dead people don't buy cars! All kidding aside, I hope VW continues to make the Passat affordable. It seems to me by adding an entry-level GL model they are trying to do this. Upscaling the car doesn't mean massive price increases. Look how Toyota and Honda upscaled the Accord and Camry without going through the roof price wise. Maybe someday VW will manufacture the Passat or another midsize car in the U.S.?
I have not been there in years, but Dwight Harrison in Snellville was good to my wife with her Jetta. They recently moved to their new location out 78 from Stone Mountain. I won't be in the market again until at least next summer, so I have not been there lately; but they treated her well a few years ago. Jim Ellis does not seem to want to help much. Maybe they are too busy trying to be nice to the Audi and Porsche customers instead of the VW customers. Porsche is moving to a new facility, so maybe they will have more room to be nicer to their VW customers. Which dealer did you have trouble with so I'll know for future reference? Thanks.
Much more succinct than mine -- but how appropriate. He obviously "gets" what is happening and my take is that he eagerly awaits the next steps in the VW's transformation. I, for one, hope that VW IS able to crank the prices up up up. But not for the current product, I am crazy but I am not insane!
The entire product line goes upscale and up price -- VW and its new and some of its current customer base will benefit. Funny, Caddy's customers are "too old" and VW's are too young [sic] -- well not exactly, but in spirit. VW will improve its profitability by providing its customers an upscale path. Generally speaking, no one wants to drive a cheap car.
Our local TV stations have been running "stories" on "what your car says about you." You may think this is shallow or at least not worthy of TV news time -- but what it says is that for a significant portion of our population -- a car is part of their image. VW wants to be part of the image of -- ummmm -- "moving forward," "moving upward," "growing affluence." It is hard to do without driving the product and the dealers who represent it to new heights and to raise the expectations of the consumers.
The Phaeton, IMO, will be the "next big thing!"
I read that it will be priced LESS than an Audi A8 -- now, if this is true, this makes the Phaeton start to seem like a bargain (relatively speaking). Of course, thus far, without the pleasure of a test drive, I still think the W8 is a "gift" from VWoA to the consuming public.
And, thankfully, I'm starting to read a lot more W8 pleasers than bashers.
I have not been there in years, but Dwight Harrison in Snellville was good to my wife with her Jetta. They recently moved to their new location out 78 from Stone Mountain. I won't be in the market again until at least next summer, so I have not been there lately; but they treated her well a few years ago. Jim Ellis does not seem to want to help much. Maybe they are too busy trying to be nice to the Audi and Porsche customers instead of the VW customers. Porsche is moving to a new facility, so maybe they will have more room to be nicer to their VW customers. Which dealer did you have trouble with so I'll know for future reference? Thanks.
Does anyone know for sure when the '03 models will be available. I am interested in a GLX 4-motion wagon. The dealer told me that the '03 will be another six months wait. Is that true? Because the '02 4-motion/wagon is pretty rare in the Seattle area already. Especially in the exterior/interior color combo that I wanted. Also anyone know what's new with the '03?
Comments
We bought a Honda a few years ago. (at Invoice with no trade and our own financing through the credit union...) needless to say they were not making much off of us.
Anyways.. the finance guy tried to sell us every imaginable upgrade there was... we said no.. no .. no .. no. It got pretty funny after a while. Finally I said .."can we go now"
--good luck!
1. Just how in the world is it shorter than our 96 Accord, yet have so much leg room? It fits better in the garage, yet I get sit in the back and have a boatload of leg room (I'm only 5'5" anyway, but the Accord has a serious lack of rear leg room).
2. Oh my maude, how freaking cool are the dash colors?
3. It was chilly here in the Norfolk area...gotta love the heated seats.
4. Indigo Blue with the gray leather looks very sharp! I'm so happy we sold the Accord and are able to afford the leather.
5. We've developed the paranoia that comes with owning a new car...how far out can we park and how *dare* anyone park next to us!
6. After driving an automatic for two years, it's so nice to get back into a 5 sp. Sure, the Toyota truck and Civic are sticks, but to have a car like this in a 5 sp is wonderful!
Out the door, our Indigo/gray leather 5 sp 1.8T w/Monsoon (fought that one but hey, it's okay. Used to having a Rockford/Fosgate MP3 in the Civic) was $25K at Greenbrier VW in Chesapeake, VA. It was one of the easiest deals we've ever made; the SM and I made the deal over the phone and he didn't try to add any sneaky fees. Sure, the FM tried to sell us the extended warrantee but nope, not buying it. I drove it home (damn traffic on 64!) and DH has been driving since. We told our 2 yr-old son it'll be his car in 14 years!
So for those of you in my neck of the woods, keep an eye out for EVL PNTY! And we are looking forward to taking it to Ohio next weekend to visit my SIL (who's insanely jealous...bwahahahahaha!).
"No one can stop us now
"Because we are all made of stars" ~ Moby
Kitten
http://www.thehollywoodextra.com/cars/cars.html
http://usatoday.com/money/columns/healey/2002-05-17-passat.htm
Am I now going to be a faithful VW owner? I've never owned one before and I'm wondering if the next time I can afford a new car, will I go back to looking at my initial interest which was BMW. When I first started thinking of getting another car, I had my heart set on a BMW. Nothing else excited me besides the Caddy Catera and the Maxima. I realized over time that I simply can't afford what I want. So when the '99 Jettas came out, I said "hmmmmm that's nice looking car" and my eye followed it for over 2 years. I figured I would wait for my other car to die and then settle for the Jetta. Well, I wouldn't call it settling now, I call it a smart choice and although I changed my mind again and got the Passat, I am thrilled all over and I have no regrets and my old love (BMW)is forgotten.
Are there any current or previous BMW owners that now drive VW and like it just as much or better?
I'll let you know when I get it. The first thing I'm doing is letting my mechanic do the front rotors and then I'm set.
My boy friend and I are going to Boston from Friday (5/24) to Sunday (5/26) to watch the Yanks kick butt, so I hope the car makes the trip ok. I'm sure it will be better then driving in his Jeep Wrangler for 4 hours. Yikes! What a bumpy, noisy ride.
BFN
(And yes, it is way too chilly here for this time of year!)
DRAS
Cheers,
- Ray
Who now knows where another $1.98 of the cost diff. over a loaded GLX went . . . !!
Yet, here on the Passat town hall, I read so many posts that claim the W8 is overpriced, under-differentiated and other "put downs." Now, granted the VW dealer body has some 'splainin' to do -- but all this upmarket push and VW/Audi differentiation should be, IMO, applauded by all of us VW/Audi customers and prospects.
Moreover, the W8 is "only" about $5K more than a fully loaded GLX 4Motion -- it still seems like "nothing else even comes close" . . . for the price. And, even though there is only a 4% cross over (thus far) between VW and Audi (in that when a VW customer "outgrows" a VW Passat, only 4% of them move to the Audi family), it seems like the Passat W8 with 6spd manual and sport package (especially) will be a -- perhaps THE -- bargain of the decade and possibly "noticed" by some potential Audi A4 3.0 and Audi A6 3.0 customers.
Why all of the bashing? My dealer either has his already sold his lone W8 or it is always out on test drive -- yet the few W8 posters on this board seem to really like their new Passats. And, I assume they believe they have found that the W8 is a bargain to boot!
Why all this animus?
Bring on the Phaeton!
If I ever move up , eg - promotion, this will be on the top of my shopping list. To me the perfect luxury/performance mixture w/o the snob-tag assoc with the Bimmers, Benz, etc,
Regarding the question of whether or not a W8 is worth $38K (or whatever you can negotiate below that MSRP) and whether or not such an ‘up charge’ is worth it for such a visually similar (un-differentiated?) vehicle compared to other Passats:
Some comparative numbers that I find interesting, in this context:
BMW MSRPs:
325i ‘stripped’ - $28K
330i ‘loaded’ - $45K
M3 ‘loaded’ - $57K
325i to 330i is a $17K spread and therefore, the ‘loaded’ 330i can be over 60% greater in MSRP than a 325i.
And the spread of a 325i to a loaded M3 can be well over 100%! I happened to see 2 silver 3 series parked next to each other at the BMW dealer a week or so ago. One was a 325i coupe w/Sport package and the other was an M3. Staring at them from the rear: Except for the larger quad exhaust outlets on the M3, they looked VERY, VERY similar. (Gee, my W8 has quad exhaust outlets, too!) This particular M3 had a bunch of options, and the MSRP was about $57K!
Now, it appears to me that there are people who don’t have a problem paying over twice the price ($30K more) for an M3 that looks nearly the same (except to those who really care about and pay attention to such things) as a 325i. The question, then, is why would someone looking for performance and not externally obvious ‘flash’ or distinctively different looks have a problem with paying $17K more (and around 80% more?) for a W8 over a GLS 1.8T. Or, perhaps more realistically, about $6K (approx. 18 or 19%) more than for a ‘loaded’ V6 4motion w/Tip.
(Closer to home, I suppose that one could also look at the Audi A6 product line – running from an A6 3.0 FWD at $36K to the 2.7TT at about $40K to the 4.2 Q at $50K – and then the S6 wagon at $60K.)
At any rate, my personal answer to this question (since I bought a W8) is obvious. I could not possibly care less what anyone else thinks I paid for my car. Or how they might judge me based on whatever car I might be driving. And I very much like both the exterior and interior appearance of my car.
Now, I hasten to add that I do not consider my W8 to be comparable to an M3 in many respects. The point here is only that there is very little external / visual difference between two cars with dramatically different driving dynamics – and dramatically different prices.
The motor, the exhaust note (really addictive!), the brake upgrade, the bi-xenons, and all the rest (lighted moonroof controls!!!) make the additional price (once discounted) a rather attractive package. And I actually like the fact that it looks very similar to a lot of other Passats on the road. I believe that it is a very handsome car, certainly in a rather restrained way. And that happens to be fine with me.
[BTW: I drove a relatively loaded new Passat GLS 1.8T w/ Tip for about a week and 600+ miles while I waited for the W8 with the color combination I wanted to be released from the port in Brunswick, trucked to the dealer and prepped. And coming directly from this ‘loaner’ to my W8, the similarities and differences were quite interesting.]
Rumor has it that: A W8 Sport Package is coming. And a six-speed manual is coming. Some have expressed disappointment that these are not available (or standard) right now. The Sport wheels are likely to provide at least a measure of visual distinction for the W8.
I would not personally buy the six-speed. For several reasons. And the larger diameter wheels and wider tires that are expected to be part of the Sport Package might or might not be to my taste. We’ll see.
In the meantime, I will buy exactly what I want to replace the OEM Conti tires shortly. And I may also replace the wheels - with exactly what I like the looks of (probably 17” diameter) at the same time. Still deciding on how to proceed here. Or I may just buy a lower profile 16” tire (probably 225 / 50 Ultra High Performance A/S Dunlops or Michelins) and have them installed on the OEM wheels. And store the Contis for when I trade in the car.
As a side note, the list price of my previous car was: $38,135 (+ destination / delivery charges of: $560) And after some negotiation, I paid almost exactly the same price out the door for the W8 as I did on my Y2K Lincoln LS8 Sport two and a half years ago - in Nov. 1999.
Just my $.03 worth. (Adjusted upward 50% - to account for inflation.)
Anyway – that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it . . .
(YMMV)
Cheers,
- Ray
Who is still straining to adhere to the W8 ‘break-in’ schedule . . .
include a list of items that further differentiate
the W8 from the Passat GLX:
1. 4Motion - Standard
2. ESP - Standard
3. Bi-Xenons with Auto-leveling - Standard
4. Head lamp washers - Standard
5. Rear Window Mounted Antenna with additional
amplifiers - Standard
6. Larger Disc Brakes(discs&calipers) - Standard
7. Rear Vented Discs - Standard
8. Extra Fuel Tank(5.28gals.) - Standard
Total fuel capacity 21.1 gallons
9. Special Body reinforcements - Standard
10. Hydraulically dampened engine mounts - STD.
11. Upgraded: front wheel bearing housings,
bearings, hubs - Standard
12. Upgraded rear wheel bearing housings with
track -rod guides at both ends - Standard
13. Larger rear track width - Standard
14. Water-cooled generator - Standard
Plus the subtle styling changes...and of course,
the PowerPlant...
It is truly a testament to the overall quality of the Passat's design and construction that so many people on this list get so worked up arguing about how much better "their" Passat is than anyone elses. The 1.8t adherents have in the past been quite vocal, to the point of really putting down the V6, and now the W8. Hey, I'm sure the 1.8t is a great engine. However, I love my V6/5speed and frankly I'm not sure my wife would agree to trade it for the 4cyl even if I wanted to. Ray loves his W8 and probably saved a good deal of money over other cars that might have been on his list. I say to each his own. If you are reading this and wondering which engine/trans. combo to buy I suggest driving them all and picking the one that you like best and can afford. They are all good, and that speaks volumes about the total Passat package.
As for VW going upmarket: this does concern me a bit. I hope they still continue to offer products in all price ranges, as I doubt I will ever be able to afford $40k or more for a vehicle. The Passat already commands a premium price over similarly equipped competition (Accord, Camry, Taurus, etc.). I gladly paid that premium and am satisfied with what I got for my extra money. Just hope it doesn't become out of reach someday soon.
So far, I am quite please with this gas mileage on a 'green' engine. I am trying very hard to follow the 'break-in' guidelines. I am varying highway speed, not using WOT, etc. And I used the cruise control for only long enough to verify that it works.
This first fill represents typical driving for me - 310 miles in and around the Metro Atlanta area. Highway speed from 0 (!) to just over 80 mph.
If things improve in this area as the miles pile up, I will be a VERY happy camper.
The rest of the car is also quite impressive.
Cheers,
- Ray
Who looks forward longingly to the sound and the feel of the W8 at WOT . . .
I have noticed a lot of brake dust settled on the rear wheel. I was told that the front wheels gather more brake dust than the rear one's. Is it normal with a Passat?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.
Here is what I remember from my graduate school marketing class.
Sony -- a Japanese brand, in an era when many things Japanese were thought of as "junk" or cheap or flimsy or just plain crap -- brought forth the "holy grail" of TV: the Trinitron. They were expensive -- truth be told, in most stores that sold Sony they were THE most expensive TV set the store carried. Over time, Sony has managed to keep its upscale image even though they are now sold at Sams and Wal-mart and Circuit City, etc etc etc. Furthermore, Sony has come out with some really cheap (inexpensive) products and have even differentiated their products with names that are known by those who are real fans of the brand. There is "plain" Sony and there is the Sony Reference Series. There are Sony "regular" TV's and Sony XBR TV's -- one costs a few hundred dollars and the other costs thousands. The name on the front of the product is the same, with the same logo -- SONY.
It is my belief that VW wants to create both an IMAGE and a market niche that is in some ways as my marketing professor described like Sony's. This probably means that all VW's will go upscale and up price -- but it does not mean IMO that a VW Jetta base price will leap to $29,995, even if such Jettas over time evolve. Conversely, I do believe that the method to the madness is that Audi will be at "X" price with the most sporting luxury image and that VW (at least for a few more years after the next step in the evolution -- The Phaeton) will be at "X-20%" with the most "classic" luxury image (accross the range).
I believe that VW's in the not too distant future will, universally, go up market and that their base prices will increase. Yet, I believe as this happens the "content" of the car will likewise increase. Perhaps, just as an example to make a point, the "base" Passat will be what we now consider to be a GLX and that it will go up from there.
For many reasons, and not limited to financial reasons, I am probably never going to be a candidate for anything Porsche sells -- and I know there are a couple of the models that I can afford. They are just not "saying anything" to me that would make me part with money. The Boxster is a great car and is good looking -- but for my money and my needs an Audi TT Roadster will get my money long before the Boxster -- even if they were identical (+/- 5%) in price.
There may be people who feel they will "never" be able to afford or "don't want" to afford any $40,000 car -- they may stop considering VW's as they march steadily up market.
Some people will never see themselves plopping down the money for a Sony TV -- even the cheapest one -- because there are still many competing brands that are WAY less (can you say Samsung?).
As the VW's evolve upmarket, up price, perhaps some folks who currently buy 1.8T Passats will find the same money (adjusted for inflation) that used to be able to buy a Passat will now buy a Jetta (although the content of the Jetta will be much higher than today's version).
VW is also, like every good capitalist company, looking to increase their unit profit. Generally speaking there is more profit the "higher up" you go in the range, becuase the premium in price that will be tolerated is generally only incrementally more expensive to make. Remember the days when only "rich people" had cars with power windows, door locks and cruise control? I think I have not seen even a Chevy Cavalier that lacks most power accessories these days -- the reason is they are pretty cheap, so they have become virtually standard equipment and standard expectations. Ditto A/C, power brakes, AM/FM stereo radios with either cassette or CD or both. The list goes on.
VW will be more profitable, have a better image, force dealership issues to fade into memory when they raise the price (but not without concomitant content improvements and dealership experience improvements) of their cars. It often works out that way. The end of the "cheap" VW has begun.
Enjoy.
Look at it this way, it is currently a benefit for manufacturers to advertise their engines can utilize standard 87 octane. Don't you think VW would want to do the same if they could? It's not like they are saving money by using the same manual in the U.S. as they use in Europe so they just left in the premium fuel reference. They print English (non-metric) manuals for our market anyway so they would surely change the premium fuel reference.
Stick with the fuel recommended by the manufacturer.
Premium fuel seems to be the way to go...The $1.40
savings at the pump is promptly lost to decreased
fuel economy. Additionally, I would suggest that
any Dealer stating that it will run just fine on
regular is trying to prempt an objection to the
use of 91-93 Octane fuel. The engine certainly will not damaged, but why get a 1.8T if the 10 cents a gallon will be a burden?
Volkswagen's entry into this new market is based
on a very simple philosophy...We want to keep our
customers...
The VW Customer for decades has typically been the
younger driver...However; as that driver reaches
a certain stage in life we have had a void...and
the customer has been forced to leave the Brand
for an SUV, or a Sport Sedan, or a true Luxury
Car...
Beginning with the W8, and with the Touareg, and
with the Phaeton, we will be able to keep the
VW Customer, poetically, from the cradle to the grave...:)
Thanks again!!
Interesting.
Well - it happens that my first car was a 1961 [old?] beetle, purchased (VERY) used in 1969, while I was in college.
And now 30+ years later I just bought another one - a new W8.
There have been many (MANY) cars in between - but no other VWs.
Cheers,
- Ray
Who is relatively certain that this is not exactly what VW has in mind . . .
It's stated in the owner's manual for both engines.
Some dealerships will say regular is fine (knock sensors tell the ECU to retard its timing). So dealership to dealership response may vary
The entire product line goes upscale and up price -- VW and its new and some of its current customer base will benefit. Funny, Caddy's customers are "too old" and VW's are too young [sic] -- well not exactly, but in spirit. VW will improve its profitability by providing its customers an upscale path. Generally speaking, no one wants to drive a cheap car.
Our local TV stations have been running "stories" on "what your car says about you." You may think this is shallow or at least not worthy of TV news time -- but what it says is that for a significant portion of our population -- a car is part of their image. VW wants to be part of the image of -- ummmm -- "moving forward," "moving upward," "growing affluence." It is hard to do without driving the product and the dealers who represent it to new heights and to raise the expectations of the consumers.
The Phaeton, IMO, will be the "next big thing!"
I read that it will be priced LESS than an Audi A8 -- now, if this is true, this makes the Phaeton start to seem like a bargain (relatively speaking). Of course, thus far, without the pleasure of a test drive, I still think the W8 is a "gift" from VWoA to the consuming public.
And, thankfully, I'm starting to read a lot more W8 pleasers than bashers.
Does anyone know for sure when the '03 models will be available. I am interested in a GLX 4-motion wagon. The dealer told me that the '03 will be another six months wait. Is that true? Because the '02 4-motion/wagon is pretty rare in the Seattle area already. Especially in the exterior/interior color combo that I wanted. Also anyone know what's new with the '03?
extremely extensive outline that I published about
the Brand Standards Program...
Maybe others will help with it's location...I am
sure that is within the past 60 Days...