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Comments
GAS - i've only used 93 octane in my maxima for the last 36k miles mainly based on the assumption that it is cleaner than regular... therefore less chance of clogging my injectors... plus i just feel better giving my maxima the better stuff... now, if i was a mechanic, and can service my own injectors/engine etc, then i might go with 89octane.
I don't mind paying for 91/93 IF its worth it.
HOWEVER...It still is knocking a bit which is odd. I wonder if it takes a few tanks of premium to get all the knocks back out?
Obi
Obi: Not to pick on you in particular, but you mean to say that you were continuing to use 89 octane even after you heard knocking? I really question the prudence of saving 10-15 cents a gallon on a $25k car and risking engine damage in the process. Reread gg2k2se's post if you need a second opinion.
For everyone: I tried to be diplomatic before, but for the clearer record: I think it is just plain dumb not to put premium gas in a Maxima. Over the course of 10 years and 150k miles you couldn't save more than $1,000 using regular gas, even if your mileage didn't suffer. You won't save a damn cent if your mileage drops 2 mpg. And, in exchange, you are going to risk the likelihood that you won't get to 150k miles without costly engine repairs??
Of all the penny wise and pound foolish analogies, this pretty much takes the cake.
P.S. For the record, when I bought my 1995 SE, I was on a tight budget and had to think long and hard about spending an extra $3k over a Camry LE or Accord LX (both 4-cylinders) at the time. I stretched for the Maxima because, among other things, I valued the exceptional V6 compared to the other two. The only option I could afford was ABS ($1,000). No sunroof, no Bose, no leather package, no other options. But never, in the intervening 8 years in 136k miles, did I skimp on premium gas. If I could do it, anyone getting a Maxima could and should.
For me, i would rather put in 93 octane and ease off the petal...
Almost seems like the "good" fillups where i get maximum mileage is when i fill up at Exxon. I get sucky mileage when i go to HESS.
It was kind of pricey (about $450) when I bought mine in late 1999 but it still works great and you can customize the setup to match your needs.
The price is directly porportional to the amount of bikes you're going to carry.
For example I bought the crossbars and 4 trays with a product called I think lock jaws which allow me to very securely clamp and lock the bikes up on the roof.
The original installation, getting everything set just right took the better part of 1/2 a Saturday but now I can get the whole thing set up (or taken down) in about 20 minutes.
Based on my experience, everyone who has posted recently is right. The higher the octane, the higher the gas mileage, all other factors being equal. But, on the other hand, my car has never knocked on 87 octane.
I have primarily used 89 octane and have had no injector problems over 111K.
What is overlooked in this debate are the outside factors. My car always gets better gas mileage in cooler weather, no matter what octane I'm using. So, in the cooler months (rare) here in Florida, I'm more likely to use the lower octane. When it cooks in the summer (pretty often here), I usually use the 89 or, occasionally, the 91.
The 87 octane is not going to hurt this engine, or Nissan would certainly make 91/93 octane mandatory under warranty coverage. You can far more effectively regulate your MPG by using a light foot on starts and driving conservatively (hard to do in a Max!) than by buying higher grades of gas.
By the way, I'm not a big fan of the the '04. Don't like the grill even a little bit. What about you?
that new sunroof they have it in sure is weird looking...if anything, they should make it panaromic like the mercedes... all it does is let some sunlight in, that's about it... i dont care for the car that much... if i had to choose on a 03 vs an 04 at the same price, no doubt i would pick the 03. i would even take an Altima or an Audi A4 before i would choose the maxima...
funny thing was, at the car show, one guy said "man, this things is over 300hp".. i'm thinking to myself "u dope, no it doesn't"..and another guy said.. "that roof opens sideways!" again, i thought, wait till u buy it and it doesn't open! LOL
can we make fun of the first person that comes into this board that bought a 04? LOL..
regards
I have 125,xxx miles on mine now and will tell you that IMO a lot depends on the original owner and how the car was driven and serviced.
Can you check the service records on the vehicle at the Nissan dealer or is on another dealer's lot? It may be that some of the issues that the previous poster identified have already been dealt with or never existed.
The deals on the remaining 2003's are pretty incredible right now with $4,000 off MSRP pretty common now.
If there's any way to afford it, the 2003's are the better way to go with more horsepower and a significantly higher level of standard equipement that what's even possibly on the 2000 SE your looking at.
My advice to niteswmer2 is to just look at the price/value comparison. I would think you would be able to get a 50-60k mile 2000 Max for $11ish right now based on my research. That means you should be able to get a 2000 Max with 87k miles for say $9k. You have to ask yourself, "will you have $2k worth of repairs while you own the car?", "how long are you going to keep the car...will you get hit with a depreciation also?". The Max should be good for another 80K+ miles, so it may be worth it if the price is right. What is the price, by the way?
With respect for the guy who thought it was over 300 hp its 265hp, but behind the wheel it sure feels like alot more. The reaction in the dealerships is mixed about 50/50 between the two model years. And with 03's getting hard to come by, if you want one you should act now or get comfortable with the look of the new and improved beast.
By the way, I am meticulous when it comes to servicing and maintaining my cars and have had my 2000 SE 5-speed in the shop way too many times over the last 3 1/2 years (all work was done under warranty but I did have to rent replacements cars on many occasions). I am on a first name basis with everyone at the service department of my dealer. I count myself as one of the unlucky "Friday car" owners and do think that the fun-to-drive side of this car has more than made up for the many trips to the dealer. I have however decided to cut short my current Max lease (my tranny is starting to act up for the 5th time) and have leased a Murano (I looked at the '04 Max but didn't like the styling). Hopefully this Nissan will be more reliable than my last.
I also am on the dealerships "Christmas Card List" as a regular customer and well known to all the service staff. Virtually all of my contact on the 00 was for preventive maintenance or the TSB's. (None of which seemed to apply to my car.)
The 2000 Max is now going to be my wife's car and the 95 Max she's driving now will go to my 19 year old son (assuming he gets a parking permit at college next fall).
Isn't it interesting the way that the same model of car can have such a wide variety of owner experiences? Was yours an early (bought fall 1999 like mine) model year or a little later?
- Coils replaced (5 trips to the dealer before this was fixed)
- Front rotors replaced (they lasted about 5000 miles before they warped)
- Power drivers seat switch
- Heated driver seat switch
- Rear bumper painted due to misalligned trunk lid
- Transmission problems (started at about 5000 miles and has be repaired 3 times and rebuilt twice. It is starting to act up again)
- Altinator died (this left we without a car for 1 week while on vacation last summer)
- Numerous fit and finish problems
- A few other small problems
This has by far been the most unreliable car I have ever owned. I do however work with at least 5 other people that have 2000 Max's and none of them have had the problems that I have.
Bottom line it's going to come down to a personal cost/value decision (not to mention the fun to drive aspect, which is important to me). I'm fortunate enough to work from home, so I won't be putting a lot of miles on the car. I'm going to insist the dealer allow me to take it to an independent mechanic to evaluate it (and if he doesn't let me, then I suspect there's something to hide).
BCohen, the dealer is asking 11.5 - Edmunds TMV for dealer retail is 14K, and private party 12K.
1) where could I find the list of TSBs on 00Maxima you mentioned in previous messages, including their details?
2) if the described problem(s) have not happened to my car, should I bring it to dealership to check/fix it or wait until it breaks?
3) in case the same problem occurs, should I bring the proof of TSB(s) to dealership to explicitly ask for fix and warranty coverage or would it be taken care of automatically? Any experience would be highly appreciated.
Thanks to all.
http://www.alldatadiy.com/
They will allow you to look at summary information for free but no detail unless you pay for a subscription. (About $20 for a year or something like that. Might be worth it on a $25k car?)
Also:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/tsbsearch.cfm
I wouldn't just take it in to the dealer unless you see a symptom in your car (if you want the dealer to take you seriously).
That said, once you read about all the things that people have noticed, you'll start to think your seeing some of the same things!
Regarding the TSBs, it has been my experience that the maintenance dept first denies the existence of a particular TSB but when pressed by me, armed with a paper copy of one, they follow the procedure quite meticulously.
Regarding the 00 Max experience, mine is very pleasant. The two problems I had experienced have to do with paint (black) that is vulnerable and then warped rotors (see the thread here in mid-February). The latter is covered under warranty.
I use whatever gas is most economical because my engine does not knock on any of them. Yesterday, it was 91-Octane at Costco in Van Nuys, CA. I record the gas economy occasionally to keep my decision data up-to-date. I buy mostly at Costco since they are consistently the cheapest.
For other maintenance, I do the oil changes and rotate the tires every 7.5K miles. I only had the car to the dealer for the warped rotors and tried to watch them closely because I do not trust that they will baby my car like I do.
I was going to say that my 02 Maxima SE has always knocked a bit under heavy acceleration and hot weather (even with premium). So, I figured when gas prices went up, I might as well use 89 octance. It knocked a little worse, but it wasn't so bad. I am now putting premium in it again, but it still knocks every once and again. I wonder if there is any other fix for the knocking? Any suggestions??
Obi
If, in your opinion, the knocking is persistent, you ought to have the timing checked.
regards
i know yours is a 02, but someone on maxima.org had his 2000 maxima pinging/knocking, couldnt figure out why it was doing it, and the dealership changed out his coil packs....it just shouldnt be making noises like that...
However, regarding your re-stated problem, I have to disagree with norbert that occassional knocking is O.K. under acceleration. It is my understanding from all sources that I've talked to that any pinging or knocking is indicative of a potentially serious problem. And it should not be occurring in the Maxima, given a properly functioning engine management system. I cannot induce my Maxima to knock no matter what I do with regards to acceleration. Flooring it in 5th gear at 1,500 rpm will just produce a slow acceleration, but no knocking (I tried it last night, just to be sure).
I agree with kylekicks and suggest you take your car to the dealer and sit on them until they find out the source of the problem. Unless you are planning on trading the car in a year or two, in which case the potential long term damage may not be your concern.
Let me just cite from the 00 Maxima Manual that I referred to before, page 10-4:
"... now and then you may notice light spark knock for a short time while accelerating or driving up hills. This is no cause for concern, because you get the greatest fuel benefit when there is light spark knock for a short time under heavy engine load."
You say that ANY knocking is bad. Maybe you can cite your sources so we can all learn.
2001 is affected by the Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) for warped rotors. See post #6388 on this board (and a few posts after that).
Norbert
I admit that I do not have an authoritative answer to quote that all knocking/pinging is bad. I have been told this by a much more mechanically inclined friend (Masters in M.E. and Material Science from Duke) who has restored several high performance/exotic cars as a hobby.
I also called my Nissan and Honda dealers and spoke with the service managers. They both explained that a noticable pinging or knocking sound is the result of metal to metal contact that can cause damage. Neither were familiar with the term "light spark knocking". Interestingly, the Nissan dealer seemed less concerned about pinging happening on a rare occassional basis, but the Honda service manager said I should bring the S2000 in immediately if I ever hear any knocking.
Sorry if I am guilty of spreading an urban legend that all pinging and knocking is bad. I wish I had a more authoritative answer and explanation, but since it isn't happening to any of my cars, it's somewhat academic to me.
"Preignition is the igniting of the fuel charge before the regular ignition spark. If the premature combustion is completed before the occurrence of the regular spark, there may be no identifying noise. However, if the regular ignition spark follows shortly ater the preignition occurs, there will be a pinging noise when the two flame fronts collide. Also, preignition can lead to detonation. These two types of abnormal combustion are closely linked and often it is difficult to distinguish between them. The main causes of the preignition include:
1. carbon deposits that remain incandescent
2. valves operating at higher than normal temperature
3. hot spots caused by defects in the cooling system
4. spark plugs that run too hot
5. sharp edges in the combustion chamber
6. detonation.
Detonation is defined as rapid, uncontrolled burning in the final stage of combustion. It is caused by rapidly burning flame front compressing the unburnt part of the mixture to the point of self-ignition. This secondary wave front collides with the normal flame front and makes an audible knock or pinging sound.
Detonation may harm an engine or hinder its performance in several ways. In extreme cases, pistons may shatter, cylinders burst, or cylinder heads crack. At times, these temperatures resulting from detonation may reach the point where the piston actually melts. The causes of detonation include:
1. lean air-fuel mixtures
2. fuel of too low octane rating
3. ignition timing overadvanced
4. lugging an engine (further depressing of accelerator does not produce any further increase in speed
5. excessive carbon accumulations in the combustion chamber"
The following message is my own:
If I experience any pinging in my vehicles, I immediately check the base timing to make sure it is not advanced too far. Advancing the base ignition timing was a favorite trick of mechanics on older vehicles, because it would compensate for other engine problems and produce sensation of greater power. However, pinging would occur if they went too far. This pinging could usually be eliminated by using high octane fuel. Pinging can be also caused by heavy carbon deposits in old engines, which will glow red hot after the engine has been brought up to operating temperature. In this case, there are products, such as GM "Top engine cleaner" which will effectively remove this carbon from tops of pistons. If you do a compression check on your engine and the numbers are even, but abnormally high, such as 180 psi in an 8:1 compression ratio engine, chances are you have heavy carbon deposits on tops of pistons, which may cause pinging. This happened to my 1983 Pontiac Boneville. After using two cans (poured down the carburetor) of the GM "Top engine cleaner", the compression pressures dropped to 150 psi in all cylinders (which is normal reading for this car).
I would not be very concerned with very occasional pinging, because it will occur when the timing advance is at its maximum, but any prolonged pinging or regularly occurring pinging is bound to be bad for the engine. Use of premium fuel will usually alleviate the problem and is the simplest solution.
I am somewhat puzzled by the Nissan statement that the pinging "will occur under heavy load" because pinging usually occurs under light acceleration. On older cars with dual timing advance (centrifugal and vacuum)this is especially true, because the vacuum timing advance is maximum at very small throttle opening. With full throttle, the vacuum advance drops essentially to zero. However, new cars have electronic timing advance controls, and therefore may behave differently.