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I know several people are making improvements by adding the STBs. I inferred that addition made a decent handling car even better, not that it was directed at a problem fix. So what have I missed?
It's they same with every internet bulletin board or newsgroup. I think the people who bad mouth other's product selections are basically insecure about their own choice. At least, that's my instant pop-psychology analysis.
Now the Intrigue is a different matter entirely. While sahring the architecture, its targeted at upscale import buyers, who demand top ergonomics, balanced handling and ride, top notch performance and refinement. These buyers, shopping Passats and Maxima's are the ones its after.
So the two cannot be compared. Those who disagree need to relook at just what you want in a car, and narrow it down. Again, this is not to say the Impala, and other W's, are not good cars, in fact the platform is one of the best GM has had, but just that each does have differing character, and the Impala and Intrigue couldn't be farther apart in what they intend to accomplish.
I guess its too late to have the shortstar put in there. I would buy another one if GM did that.
"It may be that Olds was after the Maxima/Passat crowd but they didn't succeed if JD Power data is correct. The 1999 APEAL study showed that the 2nd choice of Intrigue buyers was the Regal, followed by Intrepid, Camry, Grand Prix and Accord."
>>>wouldn't put too much weight on JDP, esp. the APEAL survey, of which they have been critized in the press.
"The median Intrigue buyer age is 9 years older than the Maxima and 12 years older than the GP and the largest buyer group was the "mature sensibles." Despite the old ad campaign, "it's not your father's Oldsmobile," that is still the perception most people have of the Olds brand."
>>>Perhaps, but many that have posted here, over the last two years, appear to be less than elderly as they propose. same goes for those I see driving the car around the suburbs here near Chicago.
So you missed my point. I was not/am not looking at some stats (questionable) as my basis. THE CAR and how its configured indicates that in fact its not a direct compare to the Impala, among others.
Obviously with some success, but not enough, Olds was chasing Import buyers for conquest sales, period.
When I was shopping last spring, I was looking for either a Taurus or GP. I couldn't find a 24 valve Taurus and the GPs were either too old (98 or earlier) or too pricey. The used Impalas were too expensive also. Suddenly about a dozen Intrigues showed up on various GM used car lots and I decided to ignore the very negative Edmund's road test of family sedans and drive one. It was a nice car and reasonably priced so I bought one, knowing full well I was buying an orphan brand with very low resale value.
So my anecdotal evidence says that typical Intrigue owners are middle aged and shopped for American made "family" sedans. I don't think we can draw any demographic conclusions from the dozen or so happy Intrigue owners who frequent this board other than that they are auto enthusiasts who happen to own an Intrigue.
I will agree that Olds may have been targeting the Maxima/Passat or Camry/Accord crowd but other than the engine, there's nothing really distinctive enough about the Intrigue (IMO) to win too many buyers from that segment.
But hey, you enjoy yours, I enjoy mine so that's all that really matters.
Is it a option or a concept version of the Intrigue?
Thanks.
"I will agree that Olds may have been targeting the Maxima/Passat or Camry/Accord crowd but other than THE ENGINE, there's nothing really distinctive enough about the Intrigue (IMO) to win too many buyers from that segment."
(caps are mine....)
Looks, engine and interior styling, not to mention refinement in handling, do make the car standout from "typical" midsize sedans, and on this many would agree. As for other excellent midsize cars, in some case the cars meets or exceeds them. The Maxima is an example: The Intrigue exceeds it on looks, meets it on engine, falls behind on interior materials, and exceeds it in handling (read IRS in Intrigue's case).
The Accord though is another matter....the Honda is obviosly better built, but falls behind in engine (somewhat) and handling, and again, looks. My point here is that the Intrigue has some distinguishing characteristics that in fact go beyond just the excellent motor. Looks alone would another great example. Excellent transmission and mating to engine performance another.
You are correct though that there was perhaps not enough on its own for the car to be an alternative to other great cars in the PREMIUM midsize class. Its also obvious that some of this can be attributable to the brand name (should have renamed it Aurora, as the former Div. mgr. wanted), and that less than stellar quality didn't help. Of course we have to mention the
abismal marketing strategy, a real miss that could have made a difference.
In the end, as a devout car enthusiast since a child, with family in the business for nealry 40 years (import, domestic) and so having grown up in a car culture, I am please that "I get it" and that others here do too (like you), that they found a great car, underappreciated by the masses (many whom wouldn't know a good car if it fell on them, very Ron Zarella like).
Another car comes to mind that falls under this great car/unerappreciated mode, and thats the Mazda Protege. While everyone buys Focus's(Foci?) that are excellent with less well build, and others buy boring Civics, this car goes underappreciated for its overall great looks and drive. Much like the Intrigue did somewhat. A shame.
Stating my own repeat experiences as case and point.
To me true bad-mouthing, is a person who had never really had any real experiences only to put down the products and without any merits, i.e. it is easy to say that one does not care for the looks of a vehicle, but to judge how it handles without any real drive time is without merit.
Just my $.02, I could be wrong.
but I found a 99 Intrigue w/52k and
only 8K.....now that is a heck of a
bargain!!!! Just about 2 months
ago. And, I just drove her almost
900 miles in about 12 hours and
she averaged about 27.5 with the
lowly 3.8. Not bad for an OLDS!!
oldsman1 : One of my best friends just got an 02 Altima. I would definitely spend the extra bucks and get the Maxima. They have cut corners with the Altima and it shows, though I think it's a decent car.
If you want to argue with each other, please take it off line. It doesn't belong here.
Thank you.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Impala::: The dealership where I purchased my second Intrigue also sells Chevy. While I still am not a fan to the square theme on the interior, the looks have grown on me. But there was one major deal breaker, the same deal breaker that made me take the Grand Prix GTP off my list-- no Automatic Climate Control. If the GTP had ACC, I would probably be posting on that thread. Of all the mid-sized cars GM makes, only the Regal and Intrigue have ACC. While I liked the Buick a lot the left air vent was too close to my knee. There'll be plenty other things that will contribute to my getting arthritis in my life; I'm not paying $26,000 to add to it. So that left...
Intrigue::: First reason I went back to the Intrigue is because of ACC. Next, I already had one and knew what things to expect (good and bad) and knew I wouldn't get buyer's remorse having had one for 80,000 miles. I loved the looks of my Silver Mist and adore how my Midnight Blue looks even more. While the Intrigue doesn't have as many bells and whistles as the Regal or Impala (went thru the "toy" stage with my '89 New Yorker"), it had what I wanted most: room, performance, looks and ACC :-)
A stary cirulates that a woman went to an Infiniti dealer looking to for an Intrique, and bought a car from them, instead of Olds.
1. Intrigue: $17622. Current $2002 rebate, plus $1500 loyalty rebate (my wife owns a 2000 Alero). Additional note: Per my insurance company, Intrigue is about $300-400(!) less a year to insure than any of these other cars.
2. Passat 1.8T: $15895. Of course, the power here is much, much less and thus the base price is $2000 less than the Intrigue. For a V6 the total is $17468, but I'm getting the impression that a GLS V6 is impossible to find, and I can't afford a GLX.
3. Maxima GXE: $17474.
4. Altima 3.5SE: $19990. Actually, this one is based purely from CarsDirect, since Edmunds TMV of the Altima is screwed up at the moment (doesn't list all options).
Right now I'm thinking of dropping the Altima from my list. I saw it at the car show and was underwhelmed with it, especially compared with a Maxima that actually cheaper. So I'll test drive the other three and see which ones I like.
Don't forget, too, they changed the Oldsmobile logo. So the name wasn't on the car AND there was a (cool) new company symbol that nobody recognized.
I can't remember how many people thought I had a Dodge Intrepid instead of an Oldsmobile Intrigue when I had my 1998.
The Maxima interior is more my taste, and it seems to have more interior room than the Altima, but still less than the Intrigue. It didn't seem to handle as well as the Altima, but was comparable to the Intrigue. In the end, it didn't impress me enough to ditch the Intrigue and swallow the big loss on the resale value.
A coworker just bought a Passat, and it's a great looking car inside and out. It definitely feels underpowered (he got the V6 without the AWD), and the space factor would again be a problem, especially in the back seat.
My wife said she won't drive the Impala because she doesn't like the taillights (I can't argue with a pregnant woman), so it looks like I'm sticking with the Intrigue. I could think of worse cars to be stuck with.
I'd be interested if anybody has any experience with the 3.5 over 60K. Is it safe to assume it will perform similarly to its Northstar cousin?
I myself have been car shopping until 4 months ago. I checked out the same cars, but the Maxima, whose styling makes me choke...
Anyway, do some little tests I recommend: try to gently pull stuff off the dashboard and linings when you're by yourself. I almost pried open the Passat's air vents and dislodged the armrest and the Altima's A-column lining. I didn't trash the cars, just applied minor force. It gives you an idea about how well these cars will endure the years, or not...
HTH
The old 2 year/24,000 mile warranty has been tossed out the window along with the 2 year free maintenance contract and the 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty.
This is an area where GM needs to take serious notice...3 year/36,000 mile warranties simply don't cut it with consumers much anymore. If you want a better warranty (Than Cadillac) then a new Oldsmobile should be considered with the 5 year/60K miles warranty.
The Koreans offer 5 year and 10 year warranty. Heck even DCX is offering for a limited time a non-transferable 7 year/100,000 mile warranty right off the bat.
Hello GM???
Hyundai's warranty is only valid if the buyer signs a waiver relinquishing the rights to sue over warranty matters. Considering that there's no 10 year old Hyundai in the US yet, it would be foolish to waive one's own rights of justice.
Because of the reliability track record of their products, big difference there. With the Asian brands is a catch 22 situation the manufacturers have put themselves in. If you want a 4 year warranty, then you have to step up to a Lexus, Infiniti or Acura. However, Toyota offers a 5 year/60K mile powertrain warranty.
VW has upped the limited warranty time/mileage to try to inject some confidence in their products. GM and Ford must do the same if they want to add this aura of confidence to their products as well.
Honda and Toyota can afford to get away with a 3/36 warranty.
I thought that this clarification was due...
My main problem with the Maxima at the moment is the trunk passthru. Although the rear seats fold down, the passthru is this really little hole so you can't fit a whole lot through it.
Intrigue seems the best of both worlds, but the Passat's interior is a little nicer.
Having not driven any of these cars, my current order of preference is Intrigue, Passat, and Maxima. I like a lot of power, so Maxima may do a come from behind move and Passat may drop out. We'll see.
The only negative that i see in the altima is that doors felt very tinny.
Straight line speed was good too (I don't stoplight race but no GM sedan available now at any price can keep up with the 5 speed equiped SE), and the engine has a refined feel to it much like the Shortstar. Maybe the sc3800 could keep up with a stick shift(you would have to shift at pretty darn low RPM's!!), but then they would have to give the GP and Regal better suspensions.
The interior is a let down imho, quality is no better than the Intrigue on a car 5 years newer in design. Lots of room for me but then I am only 5'10". It is too bad this car doesn't have an interior more like the Maxima because it sure corners as good as it with a better ride on rough surfaces. Maybe if it wasn't a stripper SE I tried (under $30K canadian sticker), it would have been nicer.
I owned my car for 2 months before I discovered the badge while washing it.
vcjumper : I think the biggest let down of the Altima is the interior and the clear tacky tail lights. Otherwise V6 Altimas are great. Still like the over all look of the Intrigue exterior though. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Mr. Lutz will do with the next generation Regal and Grand Prix given this new more exciting competition. I'm sure he is watching Nissan closely.
When we purchased our '98 we were coming out of a '95 Camry. One thing my wife thought was pretty dumb on GM's part was that they didn't offer the 5/60 for all Oldsmobiles. Her reasoning was that GM wants to get foreign drivers into domestics they have to give a better reason for making the purchase than, "This is an all new car". When GM finally came out with the 5/60 she was floored. If they had done this from the door, more people probably wouldn't have minded the risk they'd take buying a GM product.
The real problem with the warranty issue is not really Oldsmobile but Cadillac. The people at Cadillac need to take the bibs off and stop sucking on their pacifiers. Their complaint is that only Cadillac should have the best warranties. Based on what the competition is doing, maybe that means Cadillac should lengthen their warranty so that others can up theirs. Even though they are only concerned about their division, some exec (Wagoner) needs to make them see that if the other divisions don't start selling more, GM won't be around-- including Cadillac. If selling more means changing their 20 yr old warranty policy, they need to do so no matter how painful. When people have been at a company a long time they are intensely resistant to change. GM needs to see what the market is doing and adjust accordingly. If people don't like it, there are plenty other places they can go.
BTW, Chrysler's 7/100 warranty is nothing but an extension to the usual 36/36. If one reads the fine print on the TV ads, will notice "a deductible applies"...
Not that I'm against long warranties, on the contrary. I just want to get the facts right.
FWIW, in no where else in the world are car warranties so long as in the US, Canada and Japan. Everywhere else it's only 2 years at best, even BMW or Mercedes in Germany and Hyundai in Korea...
evandro : My Swiss cousin was shocked to see the warranties offered here when he visited a couple of year ago. Got to love them though!
But who really can see it without squinting. Bad marketing move, maybe one of the worst ever for cars.