Same part#, yep. You only use one hole on each side for the rear bar, and you may have to file off some of the metal (talking a milimetre or two) on each hole to get it to fit over the existing strut tower bolts.
Being in the Toronto area, you have the option of going to RSM Motorsports (who specialize in Fiero, Aurora and prev. gen W-bodies) near the airport and getting them to make a custom one for your front end, they quoted me $129cdn 6 months ago. It would be nice and I'm sure a few more people on here would pick one up after they finished the design, but I just don't have the time to go there for the 2-3 half hour sessions required.
It'll be a while before I buy new tires, maybe 6-8 months as my Michelins only have about 40KM on them. I expect the 16" Dunlops to go for about 140cdn installed/balanced, about $25per less than the Michelins were. Add 30 or so each for 245/50/17's (not sure of the exact fit for 17s).
Well I just checked it out.. No way it will avoid hitting that PS line. I think only a customized or altered piece will do it. Too bad they placed this thing differently on the Intrigue vs. the other w-bodies.
Has anyone replaced their foglamps, either with aftermarket units or just upgraded bulbs? I would like to upgrade the bulbs (if possible) but I am having a hard time cross-referencing the bulbs.
First car was an 83 Buick Riviera which my parents bought from a friend. This was in 1992 and the car had about 120K. Friends nicknamed it "the tank." White with a brown padded 1/2 top and brown velour interior. Had pretty much every 83 Riviera option, although a few of the power features had quit working. Not the most stylish car for a teen, but it sure beat the mid to late 80s Toyotas and Hondas that most other teens at that time were driving. The Riv wasn't a speed demon, but the 307 V8(which was an Olds engine) would get the tank moving when I pushed it hard. I guess I got my love for a powerful engine early on.
My Intrigue was also built 05/01 and I purchased in July. Glad to see I'm not the only one who is already at 5 digits on the mileage at just under 6 months of ownership.
Too bad your daughter is only 16, I dig a woman that drives a real car:) Seriously though, I see your logic for buying her a car like that as it is a much safer choice than a sports or tiny compact car. Not to mention the Intrigue's safety features like ABS and traction control. With so many good cars on the market now and cars that last, teens these days have it pretty good as they can get alot of car for their $$, even if mom and dad are on a limited budget. And I hope I don't jinx nyself, but I can literally blow past cops in this car and they don't even look twice. Try that in a little red sports car.
The Intrigue is just plain MEANT to be driven fast. Here in southern California, traffic speeds have been gradually creeping up the last few years. (There was an article about this in the paper.) 80 mph is fine. Even 85 mph in the far left lane is usually OK.
Remember those speedos in the 1980's that only went up to 85 mph? There was a time when I thought "nobody needs to drive that fast".
The 3.5L is just "trotting along" even at 80. When I take my Intrigue to a region of the country where people obey the speed limits (like Oregon) I feel sooooooo confined! The tach is only around 1500 rpm and it's like the 3.5 is half asleep.
I ordered them from GM. Thanks vcjumper for the part number. I had to take the Bonnie to the body shop to get a mirror replaced (someone knocked it off) so I went to the parts dept (without the number) and it was impossible trying to find it. I went home and came to my Message Center and wrote down the part vcjumper gave us, took it back and came up with no problem. Cost about $25 for both including PA sales tax.
oldsman1::: my 98 had 80,000 miles before it got totalled. I personally feel that racking up the miles is a good thing for a car. I read somewhere that a car's engine doesn't reach peak efficiency until 40 mph. So my philosophy is the more I put it over 40 without all the stop-n-go the better it will function in the long run :-) At 80K the old Intrigue actually got smoother than it was 40k earlier.
I know what you mean. Around the Toronto area, speeding is a way of life and police won't even stop people doing 125 km/h any more. Travel to some other parts of Canada and the U.S. and people all drive the limit. Drives me crazy. They must have more speed enforcement or something?
Have been away for a month and have just read the last 300+ posts. Whew.
I was amazed to see the number of post that relate to the headlights. This is good in a bad way, because the more people that start knocking on gm and NHSTA doors then the more gm may sit up and do something.
I am on my third (always the redesigned), however it has been the best. I have had a couple of flickers in a month, a few days after it was installed.
There was a lot of discussion of the cause and about the validity of the alt. being the problem. I have done many senarios and tests and i am pretty sure (never say never) that it is. What exactally, who knows. certainly not gm.
Some one suggested that it might be auto headlights module. Not unless it is shorting so severly that it causes a load that drags down the blower motor. I would assume that a fuse that supplies it would go long before that happened.
Also the occurance on my car changes for a while after a new one is installed.
Another point is in the cold only. Well, i have had it go flaky 2 minutes after i start the car on a -20 deg. C. and 2 hours later after driving home . It also has happened on a +20 day in july.
I had posted a couple of messages related to some of what i have done. #5364 , #5380.
For those who are waiting for your warranty to draw to close before they do anything, I think are (with no disrespect) making a mistake. Gm has for nearly all involved has gone into denial and "cannot duplicate". I myself went to gm hotline and had the guy who is paid to say "No" come look at my car after the first swap and got the standard denial. Waste of my time. I forced them to give me a work order starting that i was crazy.( ie. the cannot duplicateand no problem found).
This way, when it is off warranty and they still haven't addressed the issue i will slap down my three or whatever work orders showing the swaps and the umpteen work orders where they said cannot duplicate and make them do the goodwill thing. As most know, it is a big job and requires moving rads and engines, draining and bleeding coolant and removing the battery. One would not want to do all this in their own garage knowing that the replacement part is questionable.
As i said in my previous post, this is a safety issue as it distracts you from concentrating on the road and makes you focus on the lights and if you are going nuts. My wife keeps thinking the car is going to die, however, unless the altenator blows up or physically siezes up, the battery should keep you going for a good hour depending on what you have going.
I will keep pushing and suggest we all ban together.
MY god it is just an altenator. If Gm is listening, If the altenator cannot handle the 70 to 90 amps it needs in the enviroment that exists, then put in a regulator that is rated for 120 or even 150 amps and be done with it.
Well i guess that is enough rambling for now.
P.S. what did are parents do in the past without the net.
one2one : I've heard bad things about Jersey. Haven't been there in about 4 years and no plans to go back anytime soon. Alot of it depends on even a city. People are much more speed abiding in my home town also.
...but I don't know when I'll get around to reading all the Intrigue posts here. As I mentioned before, I just bouhgt a '98 GX in great condition, 1-owner, full maintenance records, 67k miles. I had a complete diagnostic check done which brought up no engine or electrical issues (the mechanic said the compression was still as good as a new engine) but said that the fuel filter, PVC valve, and struts all appears to be OEM and never replaced, but since the car doesn't have any "symptoms" there was no need to replace them. Brakes, suspension, transmission, HVAC, exhaust all checked out fine.
So, can any of you Intrigue veterans offer any constructive advice on issues unique to the Intrigue, or areas I should pay a bit more attention to than ususal?
I've heard horror stories about steering shafts, etc., but only had the car for a week, and every day I am more pleased with how good it seems to be...
My braces came in today and picked them up 5 minutes before closing. How did you install them? They came with a bag full of screws. I know aftermarket braces go right onto the existing bolts andI thought the GM braces would do the same. I went into the trunk thinking the same thing. For the front, did you have to drill into the strut tower? What about the rear? Did any installation documentation come with yours? None came with mine.
Just came back from the Auto Show. Sad to say, there was no Final 500 Intrigue at the Philly show. For that matter, they didn't even have a GLS although they did have the Tropic Teal. It's a nice color. But it's one of those colors you either like or don't. I talked to a seemingly knowlegable Olds rep who had some very interesting things to say.
First, he said Olds will close its doors forever in 2004. But here's the big news.
He said with great conviction that the Bravada will go to Cadillac. The Aurora's fate is being kicked around but Saturn's head pops up from the smoke. But again, that hasn't been determined. He also said Buick is lobbying for the Aurora's V-8 engine.
Not too much was happening at the Olds display. I have lots to say about the CTS but will post that on the CTS thread. Don't know what vehicles will be at the shows in you area, but here Chrysler stole the show.
The 300 Hemi-C is so sweet it makes the Lexus SC430 look like a Kia. And the Dodge Charger--OH MAN!!!!! That is the one car I'd drop my Intrigue for in a heartbeat (depending on performance, of course). Inside and out that car is buh-buh-buh-baaaaad!!!
The Nissan Altima surprised me. Most cars at the show I can't fit into the drivers seat because they disconnect the battery. But the Altima felt pretty good; I could even get my legs under the wheel (I'm 6'8") enough to contemplate getting the 5-speed if I was on the market.
GM has to do something about their 1980's style, one-dash-fits-all interiors on their full-sized SUVs. Or, as my wife put it, they need to get rid of that "nasty dash" before dropping money on an Escalade, Escalade EXT, Yukon, or Denali. I have to agree with her. With all the money and energy they spent on the exterior design of the Escalade, you'd think they could put more effort into a more tasteful dash. Oh, and loose the column shifter.
In any case, there was a lot to see. Just don't choke when you see the convertible Grand Am. I'll wait for others to pass judgement on that before I comment on it.
The front requires drilling - I haven't put it on and I'm not sure I will with that PS line in the way.
The rear goes over the innermost bolt of either strut tower, using one hole of the bar. Just remove the nuts, install, and re-tighten the nuts. You don't need anything GM gave you but the bar for the rear application. Before you do this, you might have to ream out the hole on each side of the STB you are going to use, it is a very tight fit width wise. Try it and you'll see what I mean. It is tough manouevering and getting it on (hope you have a ratcheting wrench), but just imagine if you had to do it to all three bolts on either side :-).
Moonshadow ::: I like your maintenance/warranty strategy, and whole heartly agree that there IS and WILL-BE a lot Olds/GM denials [head turning] going down, just don't give-up too easily.
I was one of the first customers in my area to experience the intermediate-shaft problem. It took 3 trips to the service dept., and finally insisting on a drive with the main tech before it as properly identified, then another week for the replacement parts. Then 9000 miles later has to replace it again, but alas it only took one test-drive [same technician].
Not sure who or what process is to blame, but at times it sure seems as if NO one really wants to help the poor consumer.
Tshramm ::: consider yourself very lucky, and I hope do not have one ioda of problems.
is common. The general rule: 10 mph above posted limit is fine. Driving at the limit or below is not civil concerning fellow automobilists, and often simply dangerous - they will cut you, or will pass dangerosely on two-lane roads.
In most of places of CT police would tolerate 12 mph or so, and up to 15 mph above the posted limit.
The main exception is the Tolland county: the stretch of I-84 from MA and almost till the Hartford. It is better not drive above 75 mph here, or you will be ticketed (the posted limit is 65 mph). The local police always sets speed traps here, usually on road declines, hiding after underpass.
I am setting cruise control on just below 75 mph when entering this stretch of I-84, and never was stopped.
My experience exactly. I went to a wedding in Concord, Mass in '99. We drove 10+ over on I-95 and didn't have any problems. On the way back (Sunday) we came through I-84 and i was driving about 78mph. I come over a hill and there are 3 cop cars with 3 cars pulled over at the bottom! I slowed to 74 mph and was coming up to a slower car when we come over another hill and there is a cop pulling off the shoulder to pull the car in front of me. I slowed to 69 mph and came over another hill a few miles later and there were 3 more cops at the bottom waiting for people. By the time i got out of there we had seen about 11 cars pulled over. Amazing.
They used to have big speed traps like that on the 401 here in Ontario about 10 years ago. I think budget cuts may have lead to their demise. Photo-radar came about in the early 90's and was swiftly abolished by a new Conservative government (thankfully). It seems now that Ontario Prov. Police and Toronto area forces are just pulling over the really bad speeders. They have crackdowns every once in a while, but they seem few and far between. I guess that's why you see so much speeding in this area.
Thanks for all the info and the links. They helped a lot. I got up early this morning to install the rear brace. And you're absolutely right: the holes a too small to fit right on. But of course, in my excitement I tried it anyway. I tried using a drill to shave the holes. But it looks like I'm going to have to make a trip to Home Depot for a filer. But even without the brace all the way down there is a noticable difference. It's raining and that's when I feel the Badyears act up. But after this morning, the car felt like my old Intrigue with the Pilots! In fact, it felt so good, I no longer regret not getting PCS. I almost can't imagine how it will feel when the holes are shaved. The car even has a more linear feel when driving in a straight line. So good does it feel (without the bar "properly installed") that I'm seriously considering drilling the front.
Let me know how you feel after lying the front bar down where it should go and see how much the power steering line gets in your way. It is crowded in there!
I've gotten used to the bar being on.. But I do remember being excited about the difference. I noticed it just going through my underground parking lot, the rear just seemed tighter around the corners. I thought I was going to smack a pillar by taking a turn too tight if I wasn't careful!
I thought only the aftermarket did that. I thought the GM part came out slightly so it wouldn't touch anything at all. No good news to report for my p/s whine. Don't notice it when the stereo is up though (and I have to have it up for all the creaks). Why has the thinking switched from the Pilot XGT H4s to Dunlop Sport A2s? Has anyone looked at the Bridgestone Potenza re930s? They have impressive survey results. Even though my OEM tires have only 26K on them, I'm going to replace them right away if I decide to keep my Intrigue.
Was at the dealer last night and couldn't BELIEVE how many 2002 Intrigues they had in stock. I was pleasantly surprised. Nice to see them back.
They have a 2001 Aurora 3.5 that's been sitting on the lot for a long time. I wonder how much they'd sell me that. If I could get it for cheaper than a Max, I'd do it.
Well, I filed the holes in the rear STB and dropped it in. Once the filing was done, it only took about 10 minutes to complete. That was because reaching that far into the trunk isn't a natural movement. The hardest thing was filing the stupid holes and removing the nuts. I used a ratchet. If you replace your own spark plugs, you can use the same socket to remove the nuts. It's the exact same size and will fit over the threads.
Now... on to the good and bad news for the front strut. The good news is if you have the 3800 engine (98- part of 99) you can use it. The engine bay is laid out completely different from the 3.5. For example, the coolant reserve tank on the 3.8 is next to the radiator on the right side. On the 3.5 it's in the upper left corner near the strut. There's more room to operate in the 3800's engine bay. That's the good news.
The bad news is for all the other Intrigue's with the 3.5. There is so much drilled into the struts there's not really any room to install the GM brace. The best way around it is with the aftermarket brace that uses the bolts on the existing strut towers.
Despite that, you'll never find another upgrade that yields the performance of the strut tower brace for anywhere close to 12 bucks. I understand what you mean (vcjumper) about the difference in ride quality. I do notice the bumps more but they feel better. Hard to describe without experiencing it. We went over some really big speed bumps to test it. The rear felt really solid compared to the front. In fact, since driving with the rear brace, it makes the front feel sloppy. That's in a good way. It's like the LS400. It's so quiet that little noises that normally go unnoticed are more pronounced. That's the way it feels with the rear brace. It feels so good, it begs the front to get one also.
What I don't understand is why GM didn't install the brace on all Intrigues. I mean, retail it's only $12. How much more would it have cost per vehicle to have the car perform on par with cars costing more? Reviewers said they drove it into curves like a BMW. With the brace, that statement is even more true. Whatever the cost would have been to install it, it would have been worth the price. After all, for those of us that have done it AFTER the car was assembled, it only took a couple of minutes. Shows why GM needs management changes.
I can't believe how much I've done to my Intrigue since getting it in July. So far I have added a wood kit, aftermarket radio, and a strut tower brace. The next items are an electrochomic mirror and upgraded speakers.
Those with a GLS might wonder what the big deal is since the wood and mirror come with the GLS. If so, the reason is because I wanted real wood and in more places than the GLS puts it like around the center air vents (which wraps around the ignition). I promise to post the pics some time before my note is up :-) That's why I got a GL so that I wouldn't have to compete with the faux wood. Plus, in my opinion, the only thing extra the GLS could give me that the GL couldn't get aftermarket is OnStar. And I could get those items for less than what GM wanted to charge me to add an "S" to the model name.
What things have others done to customize their rides? I remember someone turned their Intrigue into an emergency response vehicle.
You said "What I don't understand is why GM didn't install the brace on all Intrigues."
You have to understand economics of building a car and the constant battle the OEM wage on costs. Let's say the OEM price for the STB is $3 and it takes 30 seconds of assembly line labor. Well, at $3000/hr (typical cost to run an automotive assembly line), that's another $25 so now my $3 brace has COST me $28. Since I want to make say, 20% on my pre-tax cost, I've got to charge the customer almost $34 for one STB, $68 for 2. That's significant even in a $20,000 car.
Then we look at the demographics of the Oldsmobile crowd and ask "how many potential buyers would pay $68 for the slight handling improvement, especially if it comes at the expense of ride?" It quickly becomes apparent why they didn't make it standard.
The OEMs are almost totally cost driven these days. Excellent quality (from the suppliers) is expected and is no longer much of a differentiator. Every supplier's quality is measured in PPM (defects per million parts). If your PPM isn't below 100, chances are you won't even be allowed to bid on a piece of business. As far as prices go, the OEMs expect price reductions almost every year (they call it "productivity") from the suppliers. It it was $30 last year, it better be $29 next year or they'll source it to your competition.
It's a cutthroat business that ceased being fun a long time ago. Anyway, I got off track from your original statement. Sorry for the rant.
Glad you like it one2one. Now just imagine your car if you had the Pilots on it too :-).
If I have some free time in the Spring I might drop in to RSM and re-visit the custom made front one for the Intrigue idea.
I was just talking about the Dunlop tires because they are new. I'm quite happy with the Michelin's but for the price difference and the reviews, they may be worth a try next time around. I'm not sure the XGT H4's will be around much longer with the new and more expensive Pilot A/S tires now available. A friend of mine is getting the Dunlops on his Probe GT.
Hey to read some reviews from an Intrigue owner who has test driver A LOT of cars, check out
I completely understand what you're saying. I might even agree with it if you can explain why the Impala, which cost less than the Intrigue, has not only STBs, but also heated mirrors and a driver information center. I assume the savings is because it uses the off-the-shelf 3800 Series II.
I think $68 isn't much to ask for an improvement in performance. I think the improvement is significant improvement (see next post for details). Look how much extra the Camry SE sport package cost for what every reviewer I've read said turns out to be cosmetic.
Nevertheless, thanks for the explaination. Although I may not agree, it doesn't change the fact that what you said is probably the reason it doesn't have it. One thing to note: when I picked up the bars the parts guy verified I had the right part. The schematic of the Intrigue shows the STB. Perhaps they really did consider putting STBs on the Intrigue.
Took the wife down to Annapolis, MD for a girls' weekend type thing for a friend of ours who is getting married. From where I live in Philly to Annapolis round trip it was 280 miles. Did that on only half a tank, BTW cruising at 75 with occasional sprints to 90.
But that's not the best thing. I wanted to see how the STBs would make the car feel on the highway. I can describe it with one word:
INCREDIBLE!
Now why do I say that? We all know the Intrigue is a great road car. But today it was better than I've ever experienced either with my 98 or 2001. Ride quality was darn near luxury. It wasn't exactly luxury; but very close. Smoothness was very noticable. Road imperfections minimal. I would ask those who have installed it and taken it on the road to chime in with their assesment. Mine is that it felt a lot like a BMW. That's just my opinion. Although I know I said it is close to impossible to install the GM brace with the 3.5, I am really going to try to find a way to put the brace on the front.
After 5 hours of non-stop driving and only one rest (when we got to our destination) I wasn't tired, legs were perfectly fine (remember I'm 6'8" mostly legs), no fatigue, butt didn't hurt.... In short, this is one incredible car. I have every intention of driving this car until every bolt falls out!
Too bad Zarella didn't go back to selling makeup before he canned Olds.
Sheesh you are making me want to take some days off so I can spend some time getting a custom front STB made. I still think the tires made a bigger difference though. The ride is improved, but over bad surfaces and dips, the fact we are not driving luxury cars comes out to a lesser extent. I would have a tough time if I had to go back to the OEM Goodyears.
One obvious reason the rear STB is not stock (and I don't think it is on any W-body) is the way it takes up some trunk space. I had to move my amplifier off the decklid to make room for it.
It is odd that the W-bodies built in Oshawa, ON have the front STB stock, while the ones built in Fairfax don't (though the ones in Kansas are aimed at people who value handling more than the ones built in Ontario!).
You wrote: You have to understand economics of building a car ...[snap]... Let's say the OEM price for the STB is $3 and it takes 30 seconds of assembly line labor. Well, at $3000/hr (typical cost to run an automotive assembly line), that's another $25 so now my $3 brace has COST me $28.
I still does not understand the economics.
To the best of my understanding, it would be so, if the whole assembly line would wait extra 30 seconds to install STB on a single car. However, it can be installed on one station, while the work is going on other stations. This is the essence of assembly lines - otherwise it would be less expensive to build cars one by one...
Got my rear SLP brace yesterday. Thick, Heavy-duty, simple install, still plenty of trunk room. The ride is better, not bumpier. It's more stable and corners better. It's hard to describe the difference but the feel has changed for the better.
Have my front "Next-Level Brace" from grandprixstore.com and it's a 3-piece. Had it on briefly (before I got the rear brace) but the power-steering whine bothered me so I removed the bar while I research a solution. The brackets are still on the strut towers. There are two solutions to this problem but it will cost extra.
The first is to have the power steering line (part#26071633) altered. I found a guy who's an expert at this and will do the alteration for $35 but I have to bring the part to his store. I suppose I could get a power-steering system flush somewhere (since the fluid would have to be drained anyway) and have them remove the line but this route is a hassle.
The second (and I believe better) solution is to have a welder or metal fabricator make a raised bracket connection for the bar to bolt onto. This should not be difficult but I've been busy so haven't got an actual quote yet. A front bar that doesn't bolt directly onto the strut bolts would be even easier (just put spacers under the bar ends and use longer bolts). I still think a direct bolt on would yield better performance though. At any rate, this is not a difficult problem to work around, it just requires a little adaptation. I'm looking forward to having the front and rear on at the same time. That's gonna be some good driving.
If you went to an audio dealer to buy a pair of speakers that retailed for an MSRP of $400.00 then they probably cost $100.00 to manufacture. The manufacturer sold them to the dealer for $200.00. If the dealer sold them to you for a 20% discount then he would make $120.00. He would probably pay his salesperson a 2-3% commisiion which would net him out $84.00.
The markup on video is less than audio. So the discounts are less, usually.
In the car business, these markups are lower. They used to be higher, but in the early and mid eighties the car makers lowered the dealer's markup.
First off, I won't claim to be an expert but with 29 years in the automotive industry, I have built up a small knowledge base.
Retail markup: in the OEM supplier business the difference between the supplier cost to the OE and the dealer cost to the consumer is generally 6-7 times, at least for brake components. If you have to replace a vacuum booster, the dealer cost for that part is going to be $150-$200.
The supplier sells the same item to Ford or Chrysler or whoever for $25-$30 based on an annual volume of say 100,000. If they want 200,000 the cost drops a $1 or two. If they only want 50,000, the price may go up $1 or $2.
Assembly line cost: accept the $3000/hr cost for discussion purposes. (If a supplier shuts down an assembly line, this is about what they get billed.) Let's also assume a production rate of 60/hour, 30 seconds to install the STB, 8 hours/shift, 240 shifts/year. OK?
At 60/hour, annual production is 115,200. At 59.5/hour (I lose 1/2 car per hour due to the longer cycle time), annual production is 114,240 so I've lost production of 960 cars/year. If I make $3000/car profit, that loss of 960 cars has cost me $2.9 million. Divide that by my annual volume and the "cost" is about $25 per vehicle.
So it's not just the incremental cost of one person working for 30 seconds, it's the incremental cost of the whole assembly line running an extra 30 seconds.
The only way around this would be if you had another assembly operation that only took 30 seconds so that operator was essentially standing around for 30 seconds. Then it would be "free." That doesn't happen very often.
No, I can't explain why the Impala has the STB standard but the Intrigue doesn't. My guess is that the Chevy marketing folks view the typical Impala buyer as more performance oriented than the typical Intrigue buyer (who, as I recall from the APEAL study, falls into the "mature sensible" category and is typically a 60 year old male.)
Regarding the STB, did you get the GM OEM part that is about $12?
one2one : I already consider the Intrigue to be one of the better highway cars around so if you are noticing that big a difference, that says a lot.
jg28 : Local dealer has no less than 8 Intrigues on the lot. They are pumping them out much faster all of a sudden. Perhaps there is an Intrigue promotion coming soon.
Have been waiting to post to see if the dimming is corrected as we've only driven once at night with no problems. It is curious to look at the paperwork after this 5th alternator installation.
We have been offered a free rental car or courtesy van each time the car is brought in for work. Too much paperwork to get the rental car. Will seriously be looking for compensation if this alternator also fails.
I've got a technical question for someone in the "Know": The first 2 alternators were part #10464395. The service order shows the 3rd & 4th were supposed to be the new modified alternator #10464469. The replacement they just put in shows they took out a #10464395 and put in a #10464395 *B.........What's the deal? Why didn't it show the #10464469 taken out? Are there really two different alternators for the 2001 GL? Is this merely a typo? Or, are we just being pacified by writing false orders? Any advice appreciated.
The service order showed the alternator regulator shorting out and voltage jumping between 7-13 volts.
between 1999 and 2000? I saw a 1999 today and was amazed that it had fabric inserts in the doors. It really dresses up the doors. Disappointed they got rid of so many things: heated mirrors, tire monitor, remote fuel door release etc. But had no idea they had fabric inserts on the doors.
There is an Indigo blue GL at the dealer that I saw today. So very handsome. I'd like to upgrade to a GL simply for foglamps and the passthrough for the rear seat. I don't really care to have traction control if it's not paired with PCS. I don't know how I could possibly repeat and get another Intrigue unless I could get it for under 20K. Anyone think they'll go for that?
The GLS I saw was surely handsome. That two tone leather and the brushed aluminum instead of fake wood really looks sharp. Now if only they would've included chrome door handles on the final models.
I, too, have trouble describing the STB difference. If you think you like the STB on the rear, try the next level sway bar just on the rear. It's amazing the difference. I think the OEM sway bar on the front is probably good enough though. Had I to do it over again, I think I'd leave that one alone. Oscarz has reminded me of the power steering whine that I usually don't hear anymore because I've insulated it and have the stereo blasting usually.
Does anyone have any idea how I can make the dash and other components less creaky? I sure would love to fix all that. I don't care if I have to take the whole dash apart, it'd be worth it to have a more solid sounding ride.
Regarding the dimming, I wonder if my dealer installed the alternator a different way? Someone here mentioned something about direct bolting or something? I'm still perplexed why mine seems to have resolved the problem and it hasn't for anyone else. I'm nervous that mine will start again but I haven't had a problem for over a year now.
My 3rd alternator (replaced 6 months ago) is 10464395 and I've had no problems. I believe it's a crapshoot regardless of part #.
My ride has creeks/rattles but they are too sporadic to pinpoint. When one disappears, another one pops up depending on temperature, humidity, and road conditions.
Regarding the front STB, stop by a welding or metal fabricating place and see what they would charge to attach a connector or flange that the bar could connect to from about an inch higher. There's plenty of clearance to go upward. I'm gonna check it out this week. I'll keep you posted.
Don't know why the impala has it and the intrigue does not. I do know that the impala feels more structurally rigid than the intrigue. It has a huge crossmember behing the dashboard. The side body stamping is one piece. if you open the backdoor of your intrigue you will see a joint at the sill. The impala doesn't have this. No creaks like the intrigue, but i would like a little more rigidity in the floorpan and cowl A pillar area.
Went down to Maryland to pick the wife up. Same distance; same ride. The difference is that today it was very, very windy. Having the STB was helpful under the circumstances. Kept the car very composed; it kept the rear of the car nailed down so that I had only to be concerned about the front of the car instead of the whole car blowing around. To describe how it felt, think of this analogy: You know how it feels to drive with a trunk load of cement, top soil or other heavy thing in the trunk? Now imagine that on a windy day except the trunk was empty except the STB.
I really, really have to get the front STB on. I'm sold.
Imacmil::: Yep, it's the GM part that vcjumper gave for $12.
I'll call RSM tomorrow and see if they still make custom ones.
I think having the rear one, I can take on/off/tweener ramps at 5mph faster than stock, and having the Pilots, add another 5mph (not to mention not having the tires squeal so easily). One day I will bite the bullet and get the NL rear sway bar installed.
Vcjumper: Rsm quoted me a price of $149.00. i wonder if that would do anything to void my factory warranty? One2One's enthuastic testimony is really tempting.
I haven't done any modifications to my 2001 GLS yet, but I'm planning on some soon. On that note, I picked up a K&N air filter today. It is the 33-2057. I never could find the 2086 and double checking the cross reference for the A/C delco filter turned up both the K&N 33-2086 and 2057. Double checked it against the both the Purolator and Fram filter recommeded for the Intrigue and got the same two. I'm going to measure the Intrigue's stock filter when I remove it and be sure the K&N has the same dimensions. As for other mods, I might do the strut tower brace soon and I'm thinking about ordering some plush floormats from autoanything.com. Oh and I still trying to find the time to install my XM radio receiver in the car. Seems I remember someone who put an SLP exhaust on their Intrigue. I'd be curious to hear how that affected performance. Other than the few things I've mentioned, there is really no need for any mods unless one is going to do serious mechanical upgrades.
Comments
Being in the Toronto area, you have the option of going to RSM Motorsports (who specialize in Fiero, Aurora and prev. gen W-bodies) near the airport and getting them to make a custom one for your front end, they quoted me $129cdn 6 months ago. It would be nice and I'm sure a few more people on here would pick one up after they finished the design, but I just don't have the time to go there for the 2-3 half hour sessions required.
It'll be a while before I buy new tires, maybe 6-8 months as my Michelins only have about 40KM on them. I expect the 16" Dunlops to go for about 140cdn installed/balanced, about $25per less than the Michelins were. Add 30 or so each for 245/50/17's (not sure of the exact fit for 17s).
Remember those speedos in the 1980's that only went up to 85 mph? There was a time when I thought "nobody needs to drive that fast".
The 3.5L is just "trotting along" even at 80. When I take my Intrigue to a region of the country where people obey the speed limits (like Oregon) I feel sooooooo confined! The tach is only around 1500 rpm and it's like the 3.5 is half asleep.
oldsman1::: my 98 had 80,000 miles before it got totalled. I personally feel that racking up the miles is a good thing for a car. I read somewhere that a car's engine doesn't reach peak efficiency until 40 mph. So my philosophy is the more I put it over 40 without all the stop-n-go the better it will function in the long run :-) At 80K the old Intrigue actually got smoother than it was 40k earlier.
I was amazed to see the number of post that relate to the headlights. This is good in a bad way, because the more people that start knocking on gm and NHSTA doors then the more gm may sit up and do something.
I am on my third (always the redesigned), however it has been the best. I have had a couple of flickers in a month, a few days after it was installed.
There was a lot of discussion of the cause and about the validity of the alt. being the problem. I have done many senarios and tests and i am pretty sure (never say never) that it is. What exactally, who knows. certainly not gm.
Some one suggested that it might be auto headlights module. Not unless it is shorting so severly that it causes a load that drags down the blower motor. I would assume that a fuse that supplies it would go long before that happened.
Also the occurance on my car changes for a while after a new one is installed.
Another point is in the cold only. Well, i have had it go flaky 2 minutes after i start the car on a -20 deg. C. and 2 hours later after driving home . It also has happened on a +20 day in july.
I had posted a couple of messages related to some of what i have done. #5364 , #5380.
For those who are waiting for your warranty to draw to close before they do anything, I think are (with no disrespect) making a mistake. Gm has for nearly all involved has gone into denial and "cannot duplicate". I myself went to gm hotline and had the guy who is paid to say "No" come look at my car after the first swap and got the standard denial. Waste of my time. I forced them to give me a work order starting that i was crazy.( ie. the cannot duplicateand no problem found).
This way, when it is off warranty and they still haven't addressed the issue i will slap down my three or whatever work orders showing the swaps and the umpteen work orders where they said cannot duplicate and make them do the goodwill thing. As most know, it is a big job and requires moving rads and engines, draining and bleeding coolant and removing the battery. One would not want to do all this in their own garage knowing that the replacement part is questionable.
As i said in my previous post, this is a safety issue as it distracts you from concentrating on the road and makes you focus on the lights and if you are going nuts. My wife keeps thinking the car is going to die, however, unless the altenator blows up or physically siezes up, the battery should keep you going for a good hour depending on what you have going.
I will keep pushing and suggest we all ban together.
MY god it is just an altenator. If Gm is listening, If the altenator cannot handle the 70 to 90 amps it needs in the enviroment that exists, then put in a regulator that is rated for 120 or even 150 amps and be done with it.
Well i guess that is enough rambling for now.
P.S. what did are parents do in the past without the net.
Interesting article on wipers..
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/wipers.htm
So, can any of you Intrigue veterans offer any constructive advice on issues unique to the Intrigue, or areas I should pay a bit more attention to than ususal?
I've heard horror stories about steering shafts, etc., but only had the car for a week, and every day I am more pleased with how good it seems to be...
Thanks in advance!
First, he said Olds will close its doors forever in 2004. But here's the big news.
He said with great conviction that the Bravada will go to Cadillac. The Aurora's fate is being kicked around but Saturn's head pops up from the smoke. But again, that hasn't been determined. He also said Buick is lobbying for the Aurora's V-8 engine.
Not too much was happening at the Olds display. I have lots to say about the CTS but will post that on the CTS thread. Don't know what vehicles will be at the shows in you area, but here Chrysler stole the show.
The 300 Hemi-C is so sweet it makes the Lexus SC430 look like a Kia. And the Dodge Charger--OH MAN!!!!! That is the one car I'd drop my Intrigue for in a heartbeat (depending on performance, of course). Inside and out that car is buh-buh-buh-baaaaad!!!
The Nissan Altima surprised me. Most cars at the show I can't fit into the drivers seat because they disconnect the battery. But the Altima felt pretty good; I could even get my legs under the wheel (I'm 6'8") enough to contemplate getting the 5-speed if I was on the market.
GM has to do something about their 1980's style, one-dash-fits-all interiors on their full-sized SUVs. Or, as my wife put it, they need to get rid of that "nasty dash" before dropping money on an Escalade, Escalade EXT, Yukon, or Denali. I have to agree with her. With all the money and energy they spent on the exterior design of the Escalade, you'd think they could put more effort into a more tasteful dash. Oh, and loose the column shifter.
In any case, there was a lot to see. Just don't choke when you see the convertible Grand Am. I'll wait for others to pass judgement on that before I comment on it.
The rear goes over the innermost bolt of either strut tower, using one hole of the bar. Just remove the nuts, install, and re-tighten the nuts. You don't need anything GM gave you but the bar for the rear application. Before you do this, you might have to ream out the hole on each side of the STB you are going to use, it is a very tight fit width wise. Try it and you'll see what I mean. It is tough manouevering and getting it on (hope you have a ratcheting wrench), but just imagine if you had to do it to all three bolts on either side :-).
As for the front, I'll refer you to this link:
STB installs/results
A few more:
Rear Install
Front Install
I was one of the first customers in my area to experience the intermediate-shaft problem. It took 3 trips to the service dept., and finally insisting on a drive with the main tech before it as properly identified, then another week for the replacement parts. Then 9000 miles later has to replace it again, but alas it only took one test-drive [same technician].
Not sure who or what process is to blame, but at times it sure seems as if NO one really wants to help the poor consumer.
Tshramm ::: consider yourself very lucky, and I hope do not have one ioda of problems.
In most of places of CT police would tolerate 12 mph or so, and up to 15 mph above the posted limit.
The main exception is the Tolland county: the stretch of I-84 from MA and almost till the Hartford. It is better not drive above 75 mph here, or you will be ticketed (the posted limit is 65 mph). The local police always sets speed traps here, usually on road declines, hiding after underpass.
I am setting cruise control on just below 75 mph when entering this stretch of I-84, and never was stopped.
I went to a wedding in Concord, Mass in '99. We drove 10+ over on I-95 and didn't have any problems.
On the way back (Sunday) we came through I-84 and i was driving about 78mph.
I come over a hill and there are 3 cop cars with 3 cars pulled over at the bottom!
I slowed to 74 mph and was coming up to a slower car when we come over another hill and there is a cop pulling off the shoulder to pull the car in front of me.
I slowed to 69 mph and came over another hill a few miles later and there were 3 more cops at the bottom waiting for people.
By the time i got out of there we had seen about 11 cars pulled over.
Amazing.
Honda rules!!
I've gotten used to the bar being on.. But I do remember being excited about the difference. I noticed it just going through my underground parking lot, the rear just seemed tighter around the corners. I thought I was going to smack a pillar by taking a turn too tight if I wasn't careful!
Was at the dealer last night and couldn't BELIEVE how many 2002 Intrigues they had in stock. I was pleasantly surprised. Nice to see them back.
They have a 2001 Aurora 3.5 that's been sitting on the lot for a long time. I wonder how much they'd sell me that. If I could get it for cheaper than a Max, I'd do it.
Now... on to the good and bad news for the front strut. The good news is if you have the 3800 engine (98- part of 99) you can use it. The engine bay is laid out completely different from the 3.5. For example, the coolant reserve tank on the 3.8 is next to the radiator on the right side. On the 3.5 it's in the upper left corner near the strut. There's more room to operate in the 3800's engine bay. That's the good news.
The bad news is for all the other Intrigue's with the 3.5. There is so much drilled into the struts there's not really any room to install the GM brace. The best way around it is with the aftermarket brace that uses the bolts on the existing strut towers.
Despite that, you'll never find another upgrade that yields the performance of the strut tower brace for anywhere close to 12 bucks. I understand what you mean (vcjumper) about the difference in ride quality. I do notice the bumps more but they feel better. Hard to describe without experiencing it. We went over some really big speed bumps to test it. The rear felt really solid compared to the front. In fact, since driving with the rear brace, it makes the front feel sloppy. That's in a good way. It's like the LS400. It's so quiet that little noises that normally go unnoticed are more pronounced. That's the way it feels with the rear brace. It feels so good, it begs the front to get one also.
What I don't understand is why GM didn't install the brace on all Intrigues. I mean, retail it's only $12. How much more would it have cost per vehicle to have the car perform on par with cars costing more? Reviewers said they drove it into curves like a BMW. With the brace, that statement is even more true. Whatever the cost would have been to install it, it would have been worth the price. After all, for those of us that have done it AFTER the car was assembled, it only took a couple of minutes. Shows why GM needs management changes.
Those with a GLS might wonder what the big deal is since the wood and mirror come with the GLS. If so, the reason is because I wanted real wood and in more places than the GLS puts it like around the center air vents (which wraps around the ignition). I promise to post the pics some time before my note is up :-) That's why I got a GL so that I wouldn't have to compete with the faux wood. Plus, in my opinion, the only thing extra the GLS could give me that the GL couldn't get aftermarket is OnStar. And I could get those items for less than what GM wanted to charge me to add an "S" to the model name.
What things have others done to customize their rides? I remember someone turned their Intrigue into an emergency response vehicle.
You have to understand economics of building a car and the constant battle the OEM wage on costs. Let's say the OEM price for the STB is $3 and it takes 30 seconds of assembly line labor. Well, at $3000/hr (typical cost to run an automotive assembly line), that's another $25 so now my $3 brace has COST me $28. Since I want to make say, 20% on my pre-tax cost, I've got to charge the customer almost $34 for one STB, $68 for 2. That's significant even in a $20,000 car.
Then we look at the demographics of the Oldsmobile crowd and ask "how many potential buyers would pay $68 for the slight handling improvement, especially if it comes at the expense of ride?" It quickly becomes apparent why they didn't make it standard.
The OEMs are almost totally cost driven these days. Excellent quality (from the suppliers) is expected and is no longer much of a differentiator. Every supplier's quality is measured in PPM (defects per million parts). If your PPM isn't below 100, chances are you won't even be allowed to bid on a piece of business. As far as prices go, the OEMs expect price reductions almost every year (they call it "productivity") from the suppliers. It it was $30 last year, it better be $29 next year or they'll source it to your competition.
It's a cutthroat business that ceased being fun a long time ago. Anyway, I got off track from your original statement. Sorry for the rant.
If I have some free time in the Spring I might drop in to RSM and re-visit the custom made front one for the Intrigue idea.
I was just talking about the Dunlop tires because they are new. I'm quite happy with the Michelin's but for the price difference and the reviews, they may be worth a try next time around. I'm not sure the XGT H4's will be around much longer with the new and more expensive Pilot A/S tires now available. A friend of mine is getting the Dunlops on his Probe GT.
Hey to read some reviews from an Intrigue owner who has test driver A LOT of cars, check out
Epinions.com - mkaresh
I think $68 isn't much to ask for an improvement in performance. I think the improvement is significant improvement (see next post for details). Look how much extra the Camry SE sport package cost for what every reviewer I've read said turns out to be cosmetic.
Nevertheless, thanks for the explaination. Although I may not agree, it doesn't change the fact that what you said is probably the reason it doesn't have it. One thing to note: when I picked up the bars the parts guy verified I had the right part. The schematic of the Intrigue shows the STB. Perhaps they really did consider putting STBs on the Intrigue.
But that's not the best thing. I wanted to see how the STBs would make the car feel on the highway. I can describe it with one word:
INCREDIBLE!
Now why do I say that? We all know the Intrigue is a great road car. But today it was better than I've ever experienced either with my 98 or 2001. Ride quality was darn near luxury. It wasn't exactly luxury; but very close. Smoothness was very noticable. Road imperfections minimal. I would ask those who have installed it and taken it on the road to chime in with their assesment. Mine is that it felt a lot like a BMW. That's just my opinion. Although I know I said it is close to impossible to install the GM brace with the 3.5, I am really going to try to find a way to put the brace on the front.
After 5 hours of non-stop driving and only one rest (when we got to our destination) I wasn't tired, legs were perfectly fine (remember I'm 6'8" mostly legs), no fatigue, butt didn't hurt.... In short, this is one incredible car. I have every intention of driving this car until every bolt falls out!
Too bad Zarella didn't go back to selling makeup before he canned Olds.
vcjumper::: It's really tempting!
One obvious reason the rear STB is not stock (and I don't think it is on any W-body) is the way it takes up some trunk space. I had to move my amplifier off the decklid to make room for it.
It is odd that the W-bodies built in Oshawa, ON have the front STB stock, while the ones built in Fairfax don't (though the ones in Kansas are aimed at people who value handling more than the ones built in Ontario!).
I still does not understand the economics.
To the best of my understanding, it would be so, if the whole assembly line would wait extra 30 seconds to install STB on a single car. However, it can be installed on one station, while the work is going on other stations. This is the essence of assembly lines - otherwise it would be less expensive to build cars one by one...
Have my front "Next-Level Brace" from grandprixstore.com and it's a 3-piece. Had it on briefly (before I got the rear brace) but the power-steering whine bothered me so I removed the bar while I research a solution. The brackets are still on the strut towers. There are two solutions to this problem but it will cost extra.
The first is to have the power steering line (part#26071633) altered. I found a guy who's an expert at this and will do the alteration for $35 but I have to bring the part to his store. I suppose I could get a power-steering system flush somewhere (since the fluid would have to be drained anyway) and have them remove the line but this route is a hassle.
The second (and I believe better) solution is to have a welder or metal fabricator make a raised bracket connection for the bar to bolt onto. This should not be difficult but I've been busy so haven't got an actual quote yet. A front bar that doesn't bolt directly onto the strut bolts would be even easier (just put spacers under the bar ends and use longer bolts). I still think a direct bolt on would yield better performance though. At any rate, this is not a difficult problem to work around, it just requires a little adaptation. I'm looking forward to having the front and rear on at the same time. That's gonna be some good driving.
The markup on video is less than audio. So the discounts are less, usually.
In the car business, these markups are lower. They used to be higher, but in the early and mid eighties the car makers lowered the dealer's markup.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who can't quite describe the difference. It's not all in my head :-)
Retail markup: in the OEM supplier business the difference between the supplier cost to the OE and the dealer cost to the consumer is generally 6-7 times, at least for brake components. If you have to replace a vacuum booster, the dealer cost for that part is going to be $150-$200.
The supplier sells the same item to Ford or Chrysler or whoever for $25-$30 based on an annual volume of say 100,000. If they want 200,000 the cost drops a $1 or two. If they only want 50,000, the price may go up $1 or $2.
Assembly line cost: accept the $3000/hr cost for discussion purposes. (If a supplier shuts down an assembly line, this is about what they get billed.) Let's also assume a production rate of 60/hour, 30 seconds to install the STB, 8 hours/shift, 240 shifts/year. OK?
At 60/hour, annual production is 115,200. At 59.5/hour (I lose 1/2 car per hour due to the longer cycle time), annual production is 114,240 so I've lost production of 960 cars/year. If I make $3000/car profit, that loss of 960 cars has cost me $2.9 million. Divide that by my annual volume and the "cost" is about $25 per vehicle.
So it's not just the incremental cost of one person working for 30 seconds, it's the incremental cost of the whole assembly line running an extra 30 seconds.
The only way around this would be if you had another assembly operation that only took 30 seconds so that operator was essentially standing around for 30 seconds. Then it would be "free." That doesn't happen very often.
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Regarding the STB, did you get the GM OEM part that is about $12?
jg28 : Local dealer has no less than 8 Intrigues on the lot. They are pumping them out much faster all of a sudden. Perhaps there is an Intrigue promotion coming soon.
We have been offered a free rental car or courtesy van each time the car is brought in for work. Too much paperwork to get the rental car. Will seriously be looking for compensation if this alternator also fails.
I've got a technical question for someone in the "Know": The first 2 alternators were part #10464395. The service order shows the 3rd & 4th were supposed to be the new modified alternator #10464469. The replacement they just put in shows they took out a #10464395 and put in a #10464395 *B.........What's the deal? Why didn't it show the #10464469 taken out? Are there really two different alternators for the 2001 GL? Is this merely a typo? Or, are we just being pacified by writing false orders? Any advice appreciated.
The service order showed the alternator regulator shorting out and voltage jumping between 7-13 volts.
There is an Indigo blue GL at the dealer that I saw today. So very handsome. I'd like to upgrade to a GL simply for foglamps and the passthrough for the rear seat. I don't really care to have traction control if it's not paired with PCS. I don't know how I could possibly repeat and get another Intrigue unless I could get it for under 20K. Anyone think they'll go for that?
The GLS I saw was surely handsome. That two tone leather and the brushed aluminum instead of fake wood really looks sharp. Now if only they would've included chrome door handles on the final models.
I, too, have trouble describing the STB difference. If you think you like the STB on the rear, try the next level sway bar just on the rear. It's amazing the difference. I think the OEM sway bar on the front is probably good enough though. Had I to do it over again, I think I'd leave that one alone. Oscarz has reminded me of the power steering whine that I usually don't hear anymore because I've insulated it and have the stereo blasting usually.
Does anyone have any idea how I can make the dash and other components less creaky? I sure would love to fix all that. I don't care if I have to take the whole dash apart, it'd be worth it to have a more solid sounding ride.
Regarding the dimming, I wonder if my dealer installed the alternator a different way? Someone here mentioned something about direct bolting or something? I'm still perplexed why mine seems to have resolved the problem and it hasn't for anyone else. I'm nervous that mine will start again but I haven't had a problem for over a year now.
My ride has creeks/rattles but they are too sporadic to pinpoint. When one disappears, another one pops up depending on temperature, humidity, and road conditions.
Regarding the front STB, stop by a welding or metal fabricating place and see what they would charge to attach a connector or flange that the bar could connect to from about an inch higher. There's plenty of clearance to go upward. I'm gonna check it out this week. I'll keep you posted.
My '99 was A GX so i had the fabric.
I do know that the impala feels more structurally rigid than the intrigue.
It has a huge crossmember behing the dashboard.
The side body stamping is one piece. if you open the backdoor of your intrigue you will see a joint
at the sill. The impala doesn't have this.
No creaks like the intrigue, but i would like a little more rigidity in the floorpan and cowl A pillar area.
I really, really have to get the front STB on. I'm sold.
Imacmil::: Yep, it's the GM part that vcjumper gave for $12.
I think having the rear one, I can take on/off/tweener ramps at 5mph faster than stock, and having the Pilots, add another 5mph (not to mention not having the tires squeal so easily). One day I will bite the bullet and get the NL rear sway bar installed.