Oldsmobile Intrigue

lmacmil

Disc thickness variation (DTV) and lateral runout (LRO) are the bane of rotor manufacturers. The OEM's desire for lower weight (which translates into lower cost) has reduced the rotor's ability to tolerate over- and uneven tightening of the lug nuts. If that weren't bad enough, normal driving can cause DTV due to the caliper's retraction characteristics (a function of the seal/seal groove design). High retraction reduces DTV tendencies and improves gas mileage but results in lousy pedal feel. Then you've got all the other corner vibrations to deal with. And while your busting your chops to design a robust yet cost effective brake system and hiring PhDs to figure out how to eliminate brake noise, the OEM buyer says "oh by the way, I need a 5% price reduction from you next year or I'm going to give the business to your competitor." It's enough to make a 27 year veteran wonder why he ever got into this business.

Regarding plastic (they're actually a thermoset phenolic) caliper pistons, there's nothing inherently wrong with them. The OEMs have been using them for years to reduce weight. You won't find them in heavy duty pickups but for most passenger car applications, they are just fine. The vehicle development programs are designed to discover problems before production start and they usually (but unfortunately not always) do.

david161

Thanks for reposting the article. It is interesting and helpful. I had seen it last time but forgotten it. Imacmil's perspective is also interesting. Are you in the business?

oldsman01

Just got my Zaino products today so hopefully this weekend I can try them out on the car and see how she looks. I ordered a clay bar, Z-5 polish for swirl marks, and the Z-7 car wash concentrate.

oldsman01

Went out to dinner with some co-workers the other night and rode with a woman who has a 2000 Camry. Hers was the LE 4 cylinder model and I rode in the back seat. I honestly don't know what is so speacial about this car. The interior was pretty neatly designed, but nothing struck me as being special. The instrument cluster, controls, and LCD readouts all had a rather dull look to me. The mouse fur seats were pretty much the same kind of material you find in an Intrigue with cloth seats. Ride was okay and maybe a bit quieter than the Intrigue, but again nothing special. My humble opinion is that the typical buyer of these cars has pretty low expectations for their car and thus look no further. A simple appliance to get them from point A to point B with little or no drama. Thankfully for the rest of us, there are other options out there.

oldsman01

The 170 hp 3100 V6 is a more than likely a bit underpowered in the 3400+ lb Grand Prix. My advice when going GP is to get the 3800 V6. It's only an extra $500 or so and darn well worth it.

dindak

sunsession : I agree with lmacmil, get a 2000 or better if you get a used Intrigue. First year cars are always best to avoid from any brand. You should be able to get some decent deals and the 3.5L is one of the best V6 engines you can buy.

oldsman : We had a 3.8L in our and it was great. You are right, it's not a big jump in price and it's well worth the $$. As for the Camry, I've never been impressed. People buy for the reputation of quality only. Driving enthusiasts would never be caught dead buying one of those appliances.

sunsession

I went to the only remaining Olds dealer in the area to look for a 2000 Intrigue. I decided to go into the new car showroom first just to check out the 2002. There was a nice Arctic White GX model on the floor (my 1st choice color). Very sexy. They even put a pin stripe on it. The vehicle has the following options:power driver seat,6-speaker CD stereo,keyless remote entry,split folding rear seat, leather wrapped steering wheel,air filtration system. Sticker price:$23,670. Maybe you've guessed by now; this was not a 2002 GX, but a brand spanking new 2000, with 14 miles on the odometer. "Buried in the inventory; never put on display; not properly shown." This is what I was told. They put the pin stripe on and put it on the floor this week for the first time. The original new car sticker was firmly affixed. I even did a Carfax, which came back "no data." So, after turning down the dealer's offer of $19,000 (remember I came in looking for a used 2000; $13-14,000 tops)I headed for the door. He stopped me with a final "I'm takin' a beating on this" price of $16,500, plus tags and tax. Is this a good deal or is it almost unbelievable that a car almost 3 model-years old was lost in the shuffle and never shown or purchased? I can't even look up the pricing on the Internet. There is no category for brand new used cars. He'll only honor the original manuf. warrantee so there's not much time left. I will get an extended warrantee. Is it better from the dealer or an outside warrantee company? So far I only left a $200 deposit to hold the car for me, with the balance due when I take delivery next week. Somebody please tell me this is a real find. Thanks.

beach15

Okay, I'll tell you--it's a real find! Imagine that you'd have luck like that! You want a used one, everyone here tells you 2000 or newer, and when you go to the dealer, they have a new 2000! Where's this dealer at...I'd like to find such a deal someday!

Yeah, I can see how you'd find it a little fishy, but the fact that it's a leftover from 2 model years before, actually doesn't sound out of the ordinary. There's always cars from 1 model year before sitting on a lot that are still "new" in lots of places, usually they're either not a popular vehicle, model, or color. I think that may be the case here, as I've seen very few plain white 2000-2002 Intrigue's. Every once in a while, I'll see a 98' or 99', but even that's rare. Black and silver seem to be the most popular among Intrigues.

So, with this new 2000 leftover, they're knocking $7,170 off the sticker, quite a big chunk. It's clear that it is new with 14 miles, and that explanation sounds like something that might actually happen, believe it or not. I'd push just a little more if it's possible and see if they'll do any better, as the car has been there 2 years already, so they can't be losing their shirts too badly on the $16.5 price.

I'd say go for it, especially if you like the color and the options. Have you even driven an Intrigue yet? Let's just say, I'm betting you'll love it! I had the pleasure of making 3-4 trips a day in my grandmother's 99' Silvermist GX with the same options as the one you're looking at, it just has the 3.8 engine instead. I'm telling you, if I didn't like it before, I'm really itching to get one of my own now! This is coming from someone who used to drive their mother's 00' Chrysler 300M and now her 2002 Avalanche, so I've had a little variety. I love the Intrigue, just love it!

As far as the warranty, the dealer will sell you one, but it's usually more expensive than if you were to buy one some place else. Hey, maybe you could use that as the final negotiation tool, and try to see if they'll either cut the price of it down quite a bit or throw it in with the price they gave you.

Things like this don't happen twice, go for it (test drive first though!)!

lmacmil

David: yes, I have worked for almost 27 years for one of the major brake suppliers.

Sunsession: the mfr's warranty should start at the first retail delivery, regardless of when that is. You should still get a 36 mo./36K miles warranty, even though the car is over 2 years old. Btw, does your handle refer to the Elvis recording sessions or just the Sun records era in general?

sunsession

That's an excellent point about the warranty starting at first retail delivery. I will take it up with the dealer tomorrow. Is there some Oldsmobile customer service person or district manager who could give me a definitive ruling on that point, to avoid arguing with the dealer? The specific details of a warranty must be documented somewhere. Regarding my handle; you are the first one to ever have noticed it. It really refers to the whole Sun era, with special emphasis on the Elvis sessions. IMO there's something magical about that music that's never been duplicated.

ian18

I own a '98 Intrigue which has been great and disagree that they should be avoided. My only problems have been warped rotors and the intermediate steering shaft, both of which have now been fixed. These two issues seem to have affected all model years. I have never had any problems with my auto temp control nor have I read of any complaints on this board.

I have also wondered about getting a near new Intrigue (perhaps a 2002 model) in the future but have some concerns over the 3.5 engine. It is possible to get the 3.8 as it was used in the '98 and some '99 Intrigues. I would have to judge that the Intrigue has got to be one of the best used car buys out there.

beach15

As far as the 3.8 goes, nope, the last ones were made in December of 98'. From January 99' on, all Intrigues had the 3.5 liter. I have experience with this issue, as my grandmother has a 99' Silvermist GX with the 3.8 that was built in December of 98', with her buying it as a demo with 5k miles in August of 99'. I had the pleasure of driving it 3-4 times a day for the past 2 weeks while I stayed in PA, and loved every minute. It has 29.5k miles currently.

But, as it would be my first car, the price must be right, so I've been looking at 98's also. 2 magazines tested 98's, and each had quite good results, only one had the steering rack issues. What I'd love to find is a 98' or 99' GX or GL without too high of mileage, and a cloth interior.

In the 2 weeks of driving the 99' GX 3.8, I noticed these three things:
-Clunk felt in the steering while turning at lower speeds.
-Weird, gaunchy noise from the brakes (?) after backing out of the garage, placing it in drive and first moving. She told me that it's just the brakes adjusting themselves.
-AC never really pumped out air that was all that cold other than one day in 2 weeks.

They only noticed the AC issue, and have only had problems with a seeping oil pan seal twice now which I think has been fixed. That, and at 30k, the Crapyear Eagle LS's are down to almost nothing, quite noisy, and a little corse riding.

My ideal would be to keep mostly all stock, just add either the factory chrome wheels or the ones from the OSV Intrigue concept in 17" size, plus tinted windows, dual exhaust, and possibly the Razzo groud effects package to make it an OSV clone.

lmacmil

The text below was copied from this site: http://www.oldsmobile.com/intrigue/home.html

Note that is says the start is day of delivery.

===============================

 The 5 Year/60,000 Mile General Motors Protection PlanSM

Oldsmobile has always been a leader in the automotive industry, gaining the confidence of its owners by delivering quality vehicles and service. Now that confidence gets even stronger. Every new Oldsmobile comes with the exceptional coverage of the 5 Year/60,000 Mile GM Protection Plan® or Cash Back (See details below)*.

To find out more about our great cars, see your local Oldsmobile dealer today. Or check out our other current offers on Oldsmobile vehicles—Alero, Intrigue, Aurora, Silhouette and Bravada.

 

 

Download a free Oldsmobile brochure

 

 * Take delivery by 10/01/03. General Motors Protection Plan(sm) Major Guard® coverage for 5 years/60,000 miles (whichever comes first) effective from the date of delivery and 0 miles. Excludes normal maintenance. Some restrictions apply. See dealer for complete Major Guard® details. In Florida, coverage is provided by Oldsmobile 60 month/60,000 mile limited warranty. See Florida dealer for complete limited warranty details.

sunsession

Thanks for the above info. I have sent an e-mail directly to Oldsmobile asking if I am entitled to the full warranty as first retail purchaser, even though car is a 2000. I presume I'll get an affirmative answer. This is what I would like to show the dealer. It should put the matter to rest. Speaking of warranties, is this a good time to buy an extended warranty from a reputable outside warranty company? Considering the fact that the Intrigue has been discontinued, I would feel more comfortable with protection up to 100,000miles, and with only a few miles on the odometer, now is when I would get a better price, even though the extended wouldn't kick-in for a few years. Is this economically sound?

redline65

For the '99 model year, the 3.5 litre engine became standard in all trim lines of the Intrigue in March 1999. Prior to then, the 3.5 was standard in the GLS trim only. My 5/99 built Intrigue GL has the 3.5L engine.

hammen2

Some third-party places will give you a better deal if you extend the warranty today (and don't need it for awhile), whereas others don't. If you go to the 1SourceAutoWarranty, WarrantyGold, or WarrantyByNet web sites, you can enter your car's year, mileage, etc. You can fudge around with these numbers and see where the breaks are. Or, you can call them up and ask your sales rep.

I looked at this for my wife's 2001 GTP and it didn't seem to make sense to buy the warranty right away. The warranty prices tend to go up at mileage points (like 36,000, which is where most manufacturer's warranties end), so do take note of the milestones on their pricing curves and act accordingly. Note that most extended warranty companies want you to buy with some time (60+ days) on your factory warranty, or else you may have to get the car inspected...

Hope this helps,

--Robert

sunsession

Thanks very much, Robert. I will check with the companies you mentioned.

Ken

oldsman01

Still sounds a bit fishy to me. Check the vehicle's date of manufacture. If it was late 99 the car is physically almost 3 years old. The warranty should take effect from the first day the car was put into service. My only concern would be where has this car been sitting for 2+ years. If everything with it is clean, the $16K deal sounds okay, but I'd still push for less as despite the low mileage if you had to turn around and sell the car a year later you'll take a BIG hit on resale as buyers are going to look at it as a 2000 model and maybe be willing to pay only a little more for the extremely low mileage. I'd also see what kind of deal you could get on a brand new one. My guess is they are selling them very close to invoice then you can either finance for up to 60 months at 0% or get a $3000 rebate.

sunsession

Thanks for your input. The car was manufactured in late '99. I already signed the contract and left a deposit based on the 16.5 price. The car looks very clean. The paint is fine. I realize this is a bit of a gamble, but my last car was a white Olds Ciera and it lasted 14 years before the big problems hit. So I innocently walk into this showroom and there is this shiny new white 2000 Intrigue beckoning to me. I mean c'mon; did I actually have a choice. There was no Internet(at least I didn't know about it) when I bought the Ciera, so even if there were minor problems with the car, I didn't realize it. I just wanted decent transportation. Now, of course, it's all different. First I get a general impression that the Intrigue (after a rough couple of years)was really GM's best new entry in a long time. Then I delve deeper and read the message boards and newsgroups and I can virtually make a list of the problems I will encounter and when they will show up. I already know to expect not to be able to open the driver door, to feel vibration in the steering necessitating replacing an intermediate shaft, the brake rotors to warp, the stereo knob to get hot, etc. This is why I expect to be warranteed up the wazoo. The only way I will cancel this deal is if the dealer absolutely refuses to give me the 5yr/60,000m. Since I tend to keep cars a long time, depreciation really doesn't concern me. Somewhere mid-warranty I will get an extended service contract up to 100,000 (if I'm fortunate enough to get even that far)and hope that there are enough repair facilities that know how to work on this car. The reviews have definitely been mixed. Some people love it and have never had a big problem; some swear they'll never buy GM again. As long as I don't face the prospect of laying out big repair bucks, I'm willing to take the gamble.

b4z

I deleted my previous message due to spelling errors and a sentence that didn't come out correctly.

oldsman01

Just make sure they do give you the 5 year/60,000 mile warranty. As long as the car has not been previously titled, you should be eligible. As for your rotors warping and a vibration in the steering, I haven't come across these problems on my 2001 and I now have 20,000 miles. I don't ride my brakes, but I have on more than one occasion hit them pretty hard while travelling at a pretty high rate of speed. Just curious, how many miles did your Cutlass Ciera have? If you got 14 years out of one of those then an Intrigue should be no problem. I do have a sales brochure from 2000 and if you have any questions about what was optional or standard that year, let me know.

lmacmil

Had my car in for its last warranty service. I was hearing a noise from the rear. They rotated the tires and it moved to the front so it's tires. I asked if they used a torque wrench and was assured the lug nuts had been torqued to factory specs.

Not wanting to have my rotors start warping now that I'm out of warranty, I loosened and re-torqued all the nuts today. Based on the variation in force required to loosen the nuts, I don't think there's any way the mechanic at the dealer used a torque wrench. Even the "torque stick" should have done a better job than what I perceived. You can get an inexpensive 150# clicker torque wrench for $20-25 and it will pay for itself the first time someone over- or unevenly torgues your lug nuts.

vcjumper

Well a friend went and got a decked out Jetta GLI, 200hp V6 with a 6-speed manual, 17" rims.

I wish I could say it was close but he left me behind pretty easily. Sure gives me the itch to buy a more sporting car (and one with better interior door trim!), mortgage and retirement funds be damned :-)!

sunsession

I believe the odometer read about 118,000 when I euthanized it. I'm not what you'd call a heavy driver. Thanks for the offer of brochure info. I got all that information from this website. Imacmil, I don't think you were addressing me specifically about the torque wrench. I wouldn't know a torque wrench from a wrenched back. Unfortunately, I'm completely at the mercy of "professional" mechanics when it comes to car repairs. Could you recommend a book that might begin to teach me the basics? It wouldn't hurt to be able to do some things on my own; although I understand that DIY engine work on the 3.5 is nearly impossible. I'll report in as my adventure continues.

vcjumper

You should learn to check your oil.. the 3.5L has been known to burn oil and some owners have to top theirs up between oil changes.

sunsession

I didn't mean to portray myself as a complete boob. Of course I always check oil and coolant during gas-ups. Speaking of gas, do you really need only regular (87 octane) in this engine, or should I use mid-grade (89) to be on the safe side? I don't want to spend more than necessary.

vcjumper

Use regular, I think any differences perceived with midgrade use in the 3.5L are imagined.

one2one

I like your mentality as far as dealing with potential problems. It shows you're an educated consumer, not blinded by perception.

Prior to my purchase of my first Intrigue, I did the exact same thing you did. And sure enough, I got the "jiggly" steering and rusted rear rotors. Because I knew that those things "might" happen, it was easier to accept when it happened. When the car got totalled I purchased another Intrigue (first was a 1998; second is 2001) because I had more experience with it and knew what to expect. So far on the '01, I've only had the steering problem and most recently the right passenger's window won't go down from the passenger door or driver switch. A minor problem especially compared to problem other vehicles have, including Japanese.

I think you'll be pleased with your purchase. My '98 went 80k before heading to the heap (purchased with 22,000 miles). You're getting a stylish car, fun to drive and cheap in price. To date I have a combined total of almost 90,000 with Intrigue and still love my ride.

Gas::: I agree with vcjumper. This car performs extremely well with the recommended regular--mileage and acceleration. When you think about it, the engine's big brother (Aurora V-8) used to use 91 octane. Engineers reworked it to perform just as well on 87. If an engine that used to use 91 now performs just as well on 87, it would make sense to use recommended 87 in the 3.5L.

pgl1

There's been a lot of high praise posted lately for the 3.5, so to balance things out I offer the following text from a September 1998 Car & Driver article entitled, "Oldsmobile's 3.5 liter twin-cam V-6 promises adult pleasures to match the import's, and we're still waiting":

***

Let's just say the new power plant is less about adult pleasures and more about adult needs. Sure, it delivers a measurable shortening of zero-to times on the test track-0.2 second quicker to 60 mph- and it makes moderately sweeter sounds as it goes about its work, compared with the old 3800 V-6.

So, how does the 3.5-liter Intrigue do on the adult-pleasure question? Decidedly mixed, we say, after a two-car drive-off between an early 1999 215-horsepower, 3.5-liter twin-cam model and a 1998 Intrigue with the 195-horsepower, 3.8- liter pushrod V-6 engine.

For performance, the smaller-displacement twin-cam behaves as expected. Its extra 20 horsepower arrives for duty some-what higher in the rev range. So the new car is actually slower to 30 mph by 0.2 second, but it gains strength as speed builds and reaches 100mph in 23 seconds, 2.4 seconds ahead of an older-engined model. The late-arriving power also shows in passing, with the 30-to-50-mph pass slower by 0.1 second and the 50-to-70 pass quicker by the same margin. Around town, the 3.8-liter car feels stronger, whereas the new one excels on the highway.

For acoustics, the new powerplant is better. The hushed moan-groans of the 3.8-liter are replaced by a "machinery" sound as the twin-cam revs to its 6400-rpm redline, although the 3.5 is no match for the thrilling song of the Camry V-6.

The bad news comes in fuel economy, where the 3.5-liter matches the 3.8 in EPA city at 19mpg but falls way behind on the highway only 27 mpg compared with 30 for the larger engine.

***

For ride, we find the 3.5-liter Intrigue a bit plusher over small impacts. On big bumps, we prefer the 3.8. The 3.5 loses its sophistication, allowing bumps to crash through, and we could feel the heavy mass of the powertrain moving within the structure. Call this a draw.

For handling accuracy, though, we prefer the older powertrain. The 3.5 - Liter is more likely to be deflected off its path as it accelerates over bumps. You feel tugs in the steering, mostly caused by the driveshafts to each wheel momentarily assuming unhappy angles.
Along with the new engine comes Magnasteer II, a revised version of GM's electronically controlled rack-and-pinion steering; now it increases steering effort in proportion to cornering forces. Mostly, we noticed a lower turning effort in normal driving, which pleased some of our drivers and disappointed others.

All of us are disappointed that the 3.5 doesn't have the 3.8's happy marriage between engine and transmission. The old one makes smooth and seamless down- shifts when you need a touch of part- throttle thrust in traffic. The new one hangs on to the higher gear longer, waiting until your toe is deeper in the power. Then- kawaahhhh-it makes a big production of downshifting.

It will come as no surprise that I drive a '99 (assembled in September of 98) that has the 3.8.

one2one

Having owned BOTH the 3.8 and 3.5 versions of the Intrigue I can say that the article quoted above is pretty much on target with its assesment (I have to disagree with the comment about the Camry V-6). After I got my '01 I posted that driving characteristics were different even as far as ride quality. The reasoning given about the 3.8 being heavier thus changing the driving characteristics is consistant with my experience. The 3.8 steering felt more "tight" and in line with aggressive driving. The 3.5 feels lighter by comparison. I will wait to pass judgement on the marriage of engine and transmission. The 3.8 I had was a silky combination at 80k miles. The 3.5 tranny does seem to engage with a bit more fuss than the 3.8 (couldn't tell you why) but only at low speeds. At highway speeds it behaves as expected. It's still one of the smoothest trannies this side of Lexus.

If I had to pick one engine over the other, which would it be? That's a very tough one. At highway speeds the 3.8 is not as ready to respond when passing. Acceleration kicks in about a half second after dropping the hammer in both. The 3.8 then gradually builds speed; the 3.5 after the same lag tries to run away from you. At low speeds there's no question the 3.8 blows the 3.5 away. That's not to say the 3.5 w/3.05 axle is a snail taking off from a stoplight; just not as neck-snapping(w/o PCS.... PCS changes everything). The 3.8 takes FOREVER to heat up in the winter; the 3.5 warms up very quickly in the cold.

So having owned both which one would I take if I could only get one or the other? Probably the 3.8L.

b4z

In 2001 the 3.5Ls fuel econmy was increased to 30mpg hwy.
I frequently got 29 mpg with my '99 3.5L.
So it looks like Olds shorted themselves on the hwy number.

dindak

I prefer the 3.5L only for the far superior passing power as we do a lot of highway miles. I also like the smoother hum of the 3.5L. We had the 3.8L in our 98 GP and it was fine, but after 2 1/2 years with the "twin-cam", I'm still in love with it.

lmacmil

Having driven the 3.1 and 3.8 engines with rentals the last 2 summers, I do think the trannys downshifts more seamlessly with the lower power engines. I suppose that was a conscious decision on GM's part but I don't know why. I find the hesitation quite annoying, especially when passing on a two-lane highway.

oldsman01

Those guys are morons if they thing the Camry's engine is better sounding. Ever hear a 3.5 at full throttle? It's Northstar roots really start to show(sound) through. I'm not dogging the 3800 as I think it is a great engine and with a blower is pretty damn fast, but the 3.5 does give the Intrigue a more refined feel. And without a blower, I don't think a 3800 could catch a 3.5 above 3500 rpm.

oldsman01

I have the factory service manual for the Intrigue so if you ever have any questions about something, let me know. 114,000 miles is pretty good for a Cutlass Ciera as those cars just were not known for longevity.

beniman74

Has anyone upgraded their exhaust system on their Intrigues? I would be interested in what diameter pipe and muffler you used. Also did you notice any performance gains? Thanks.

sunsession

Thanks everyone for your information and support. I'm sure I'll be making many visits here during my Intriguing years.

b4z

One of our former posters put a SLP cat back system designed for a grand prix on his '99.
It was a bolt in and he said it sounds good and gave him a little more power on the top end.

pgl1

ENGINES: Glad to see the article elicited so many interesting points of view; now if only they gave us an engine with the low end torque of the 3.8 and the top end power and refinement of the 3.5 ...

CAT BACKS: SLP also makes a system specifically for the Intrigue; it's supposed to be quieter than the one made for the GP. I'm tempted to try it, but I know I should upgrade my front rotors instead.

STRUTS: At 60,200 mi, I just installed new Reactek struts front & rear, and the car handles like it was new again. Less body roll in the turns and no more wallowing over bumps.

oldsman01

Whatever happened to the guy who put the SLP exhaust on his Intrigue?

b4z

He is not posting on edmund's anymore.
He and his wife are now living in Florida.
We email each other a couple of times a month.
His intrigue is running great. He had some paint damage and has had that repaired.
Currently deciding if he wants to buy another one or get something different.

He also corrected me and said the catback system he installed was for a 3.8L intrigue but that it fits fine on his 3.5L.

dindak

04 GP looks pretty good..

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5220

perna

Yeah, but it's got the same problem my Alero had; what is the deal with the HONKING HUGE taillights??

Which I can live with, assuming they fix the awful interior (the main reason I went with an Intrigue over a GP in the 1st place).

pgl1

You're right they are ridiculously large and look like they have the same tacky blacked-out plastic that afflicts the Bonneville. Pontiac has really got to give up on that whole 'Darth Vader' look. Pair up those tail lamps with large round AC vents and a lot of large, gray plastic buttons on the dash, and I'll buy an import next time.

vcjumper

I have no love for those huge headlights and driving/fog lights. Nor the Grand Am grill.

badgerfan

Before you jump to an import, may I gently suggest you try out a new Taurus-with the 200 Hp DOHC Duratec engine. Solidly built. tight but not punishing handling, nice interior, no squeaks or rattles, and a bargain price in the midsize sedan field. Rear end styling is mildly similar to Intrigue, as well.

I have been more than happy with my '00 SES, and got it for $18K+TTL. Prices haven't gone up much since then either.

By the way, I think Intrigue has been the nicest midsize sedan GM has out there, too bad it is going away.

dindak

perna : Love the tail lights, of course we have an Alero so no surprise. My big concern is the interior. If GM does it up nice, GP may be my next car. Rumor has it a new DOHC V6 will replace the 3.8L in 2004/05. That would work out well as the kinks would be out and the new engine would be ready for me in 2005/06.

badgerfan : The Duratec is nice, I'm just not crazy about the Taurus itself. I need something with a slightly sportier suspension. It's a decent car though.

one2one

Looks like they're bringing the Grand Prix into production almost exactly as the concept car. I'll reserve final judgement on that after I see the interior.

On the new DOHC engine::: If that is true, it shows that a lot of people at GM need retraining on bringing a new car into production. How many times are they going to bring to market a car (Intrigue, CTS for example) without the engine they claim it needs to compete? Get a clue, GM!

winter9

I found the dealer comments about your 2000 interesting - "Buried in the inventory; never put on display; not properly shown." Kind of speaks for the Intrigue in general since it was first introduced. It is a very good car - I hate to see it go.

dindak

Unfortunately the new series of GM engine won't be ready until next year with the Malibu and the following year with the larger V6. GP badly needs to be replaced as it's been on the market over 5 years now. 3.8L is not modern, but it's smooth and bullet proof.

You are right though, it's too bad the engine is not ready when the car is. Bad planning just like when the Intrigue came out.