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Comments
didnak, A Cadillac STS or DTS(maybe an XLR) or a Corvette Z06 are about as much as I would spend on a car, even if I were a millionaire. Or maybe a Jaguar XKR as those are sharp and fast. MBs, BMWs, and others just don't do that much more for me.
jr45 : I get a semi-hard shift from 1-2 occasionally under hard sudden acceleration. I have not done anything about as it doesn't happen often (maybe 1x a week) and I don't think there is really anything they will do to make it better. Nature of the beast I think. As for the temp gauge, mine moves a little, but is usually at around the middle solidly also since the old erratic one was replaced.
I too like the Cad Seville but I have to admit the styling is getting dated. A while back there were a couple on a used lot here (one each of the current generation before and after the facelift - '99 or so?) and the older of the two looked really old, the newer not quite but certainly not fresh. But at least they are a well-styled car with some graceful lines and balance, unlike certain newer Cad models I could name... ;-)
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
I would go back with your bill and get your money back.
My short sedan shopping list today would be Maxima, Grand Prix, base CTS. I would likely go with a Max as I don't care for the GP interior and the CTS would be a bit much. I really hope the next generation GP is better inside. Still going to enjoy the Intrigue for another 4-5 years so it doesn't really matter at this point. The whole auto world could change by then.
3.5L definately has cooling capacity to spare. GM may have been conservative in this area, (as they were in equipping it with a larger transmission than other W body sedans.)
My gripes about tranny shift points are somewhat mitigated when the car is under full load. I wish I could just trick the computer into thinking the car is 800 lbs heavier than it really is for normal driving....
Also, even loaded up, I was still able to get 31 MPG on level terrain, with the cruise set and the climate control on "econ". The 3.5L seems to have plenty of torque to run efficiently under load.
Nissan can really ruin the Maxima if they give it the "Altima treatment". Those clear tail lights are enough to turn me off any car.
I wonder if those clear Altima taillight covers are removeable? Every time I see one, I think how much better it would look if those plasti-chrome bezels were painted body color.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Thankfully in pictures the interior of the 9-3 looks like it wasn't subject to the GM parts bin look that our Intrigues are. I swear I'm never going to buy a car with that little plastic finishing piece around the radio/hvac controls that goes down to the little storage bin that it seems every moderate priced GM car has some variation of.
With all the summer road constuction going on here, I'm noticing the ride of my Intrigue is starting to feel less solid.. I'm at 114,000KM's now and some suspension bits may be worn or less effective by now. I would hate to have to replace them with the generic GM suspension bits it appears they started using in later year Intrigues. If I wanted minivan struts or springs I would buy a minivan.
I sure like the looks of the new G35 though. Anyone that hates the Altima taillamps could just get them painted red. The G35 has all red taillamps and looks good I think.
I've never liked the styling of the CTS. I think it's definitely love it or hate it. I'm excited about the prospect of the ford 500. It'll have european styling which sounds good (and cheaper than a passat).
Though the exterior dimensions are measureably smaller, Oldsmobile claims that the new o6 offers roomier accommodations than its predecessor within a smaller, more taught package.
Features include dual zone climate control, liquid halogenic headlights, electrochromic mirror with compass, tilt and telescope steering wheel, wheel mounted controls.
The car is bolstered by a continued all independent 4 wheel suspension but now rides on MacPherson struts.
Also featured are Oldsmobile's stability control (Precision Control System), electronic brake force distribution and a traction control system. The new car's body is four times as stiff as its predecessor's, dramatically improving ride and refinement.
Buyers of the o6 get the choice of a four or six cylinder engine for the first time. Intrigue's award winning 3.5L DOHC V6 continues in the o6 but power has been upped to 240 horses. The 2.4L DOHC V4 has an impressive 174 horsepower. New for both models is a five speed electronic transmission with rumored lightning quick up and downshifts.
As far as safety features go, the o6 boasts dual-stage front airbags, seat-mounted side airbags and new side-curtain airbags. The car also features rear headrests.
Three trim levels are available. The GX disappears in favor of the L, the sport tuned S and the luxurious LS. The L offers all the above with 16-inch alloy wheels. The LS adds leather, sunroof and bose with real burled walnut trim and chrome wheels. The S offers highly bolstered seats, brushed aluminum interior accents, a sport tuned suspension, and 17-inch alloy wheels.
GM is aiming it squarely at the Volkswagen Passat, Nissan Maxima, Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. The o6 will go on sale in mid 2003, shorly after the Oldsmobile moniker is retired in favor of OLS.
Now, if my Intrigue had the Maxima's guts, all would be right with the world. :-)
I don't think discussion of Intrigue replacements is off-topic, since the car itself will have no successors.
I agree about the Grand Prix, and Pontiacs in general. The interiors are just plain garbage. I drove my parents' Montana this weekend, and I was shocked that GM *STILL* uses that horrible "all-in-one" stalk for cruise, etc. My first car, a 1983 Pontiac 6000, had that exact same thing. And those grey plastic buttons everywhere.. uggh...
Amusingly, the CTS uses a lot of the same GM parts bin leftovers that are in our cars. Nothing wrong with that, I actually REALLY like the Intrigue's interior; everything is very functional and intuitive. Some bits could be more refined, but considering what the car cost, I can't complain.
For those of you who never checked out an Alero, it has basically the same interior but roomier. The sole faux pas is having the cruise button on the dash; my Alero had it on the steering wheel. That's ok, I will gladly trade that for having the stereo buttons on the wheel instead.
Now that I've had the car over two months, I can retract a little of my previous harshness about the Goodyear Eagle LS tires. What they lose in a sporting capacity they make up for in ride quality. Even though I'm only 28, I'll gladly take a little squealing around corners in exchange for a cushier ride. I don't feel every little bump in this car like my Alero with the RSAs, and I appreciate that.
I did notice that GM is putting those RSAs on the CTS, and it amuses me somewhat. You'd think they'd go to Michelin. Even Ford is using a lot of Michelins now, I think they got the message a couple years back.
They are squeal-y... but based on how mine are doing I think they'll last to 50-60K.
jg28 : Nice fantasy!
perna : After years of the "smart stalk", I have to say I really liked it. I know auto journalist always hated it though.
lmacmil : I disagree with you that the 3.1L is "underpowered" 170HP is nothing to sneeze at giving the 4 bangers most base sedans have in them. It's no 215HP 3.5, but it's far from underpowered.
I guess I'm just getting old but I'm looking to compliment the handling with more comfort. The Pilots actually had a nice ride quality although firm (which I like). But now I'm looking to get an Aurora-type feel (despite GM thinking people are "cubes" the usable extra cubic feet in Aurora is less than in the Intrigue and therefore took it off my shopping list). After doing some research I'm going to wait until the Michelin X-1's go on sale ( http://tires.michelin-us.com/catalog/tires/x1.html ).
I'm a Michelin Man (no pun intended :-) ironiclly enough only because the reviews I've read on different tires leads me back to them. If you go to: http://tires.michelin-us.com/ and click "Find the best tire", it will walk you thru selecting the vehicle you own and prompt you to select your driving preference then tell you which tire is good for you. When I did it it told me the X-1 was the one for me. After doing research, it turns out that (on paper at least) this is the one for me.
On the Grand Prix: Don't forget it comes in 3.8 and 3.8 supercharged flavors as well. I think if you drove the 3.8 you'd like the performance as much as the 3.8 Intrigue. For 3.5 drivers, hands down consider the supercharged version.
170hp or not, the 3.1 struggled on long, upward inclines (there are a lot of those in California) and the transmission was working overtime trying to keep it in its powerband. It may not be underpowered relative to the base engines of the competition, but in hilly terrain, it was lacking.
As a sidenote, we were in Carmel when the annual Concours d'elegance was underway. Three blocks of downtown were closed off and about 100 museum quality cars, ranging from a Stutz-Bearcat to Dusenbergs and 50s Jags and Ferraris were on display. Heading south down Route 1 in the afternoon, we must have seen 20 late model Ferraris heading north for the weekend's events. The vehicle scenery was almost as spectacular as the coastal scenery.
Volvo. About a year ago (25000 miles?)the pulsing started and the dealer ground the rotors rather than replacing them. GM's recommended fix. That was covered by warranty, but now the rotors are supposedly just worn out and it is my problem. Maybe if they had been replaced, rather than merely ground, I would not be having this problem now.
Also, the dealer told me today that the transmission fluid is dirty and needs to be flushed. That astonished me because the dealer recommended flushing the transmission 6 months ago, and I let him do it, even though the manual recommends the service at 50,000 miles, as I recall. How can it need it again after 6 months (5000 miles?)
Some of you may recall that I posted earlier about an intermittent spontaneous door locking problem. It is still going on, but only a few times a month.
I believe there are two main reasons for turning rotors: if they are scored (because all the lining has worn off the pads and the backing plates gouged into the rotor), or if they are warped. I assume yours were not scored, with only 25k miles, and that the rotors were turned to eliminate the warp. Unfortunately, this probably removed a lot of metal. I assume they have approached the minimum thickness dimension stamped into the rotors.
I think I would be inclined to dispute the dealer by arguing these points:
In normal “wear and tear,” it is not the rotors that wear, it is the pads. What is the condition of the pads? I know my 99 still has its original pads at 40k mi. and more than half their thickness remaining. I assume these are your front brakes, because they do most of the work.
It is not normal for rotors to warp under typical driving conditions, especially after only 25k. One cause might be that when the tires were rotated, they were overtightened with a pneumatic wrench, instead of torqued. But if there is no reason to assume the rotors have been abused, then they should have been replaced under warranty, rather than turned. Turning the pads might remove the warp, but doing so shortens the life of the rotors, in that they can’t be turned again.
If the rotors are at or near the minimum thickness but are otherwise smooth and are no longer warped, I don’t know why they would have to be replaced. You should definitely ask to see the rotor surface, and ask what is the actual thickness and the minimum permissible thickness (as stamped into the rotor). If they are less than the minimum permissible thickness, I would ask how they got that way (most likely too much metal was removed in the first turning, not from any “normal wear”).
Might be a good idea to stop by a brake specialty shop and get their opinion.
With respect to the transmission fluid, this sounds fishy too. I would ask how they determined the fluid was dirty again (most likely by looking at the dipstick), and to show you. If it is really dirty again after 5k mi. it would suggest severe wear, releasing particles into the fluid (very doubtful), in which case they have an obligation to warn you that something is wrong inside the transmission.
On the transmission::: The dealer is full of it. Even without the long-life fluids, regular fluid only needs to be changed every 2yrs/24,000 miles. I tested the supposed long-life fluid in my first Intrigue and it ran to 80,000 miles, never changed and was silkier then than at 20,000. Even if you drove in the dusty conditions that the manual describes you'll notice it still doesn't recommend doing it every 5k miles.
I suggest going to a different dealership. This one's taking you for a ride.
I'm with you. There is nothing that really excites me about GM's lineup either. And because of being so dog-gone tall, I'm really limited. I saw pictures of the Accord in this month's Automobile magazine. Inside looks like they stopped designing at the clay model stage. But that's just me. The only thing that catches my attention is the Grand Prix G-Force. But I'm sure in typical GM fashion they will dumb the car down to a point where we won't recognize it.
david161 : I agree, definitely go get another opinion on your car.
I once had a Chrysler dealer tell me I needed a new serpentine belt less than a year and 15k miles after they had replaced it. When I called him on it, he muttered some nonsense about the suppliers testing new rubber compounds on the unsuspecting public. I told him to forget it and I don't think I ever went back again.
I don't buy the rotors are worn out story either. If they aren't pulsing, i.e., warped, there's no way they could have worn below the minimum thickness in normal driving.
I agree with whoever said you need to find another repair shop. This one sounds crooked to me.
They don't make 'em like they used to.
david161 - I think that you should push hard for complete replacement under warranty.
My '99 Intrigue had a warped rotor with 76 miles on it and my Impala had a warped rotor after 18,000 miles.
I've never had warped rotors on any car at any time.
http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/part1.html
Going to be crummy running into these these at lights being driven by teens driving daddy's car.
I got 200K out of the rotors on the Camaro, so it is the rotors not me. And I drive that Camaro hard.
How do you tell when the struts need replacing? As I said, I have 75K on the original set, and don't have any apparent problems, but since I haven't owend the car that long, can't really judge whether ride quality has deteriorated. I asked the dealer and they said "typically" between 75-90K miles. But is there a way to "test" struts to see if they need replacing?
Olds Intrigue as a used car purchase. Only a test drive is lacking. I
realize the Intrigue is now discontinued. Does this make it a better
used car value or is the situation fraught with danger? Am I in a
better bargaining position due to this situation, or do the negatives
of the discontinuance outweigh any positives? I would be looking at
1999 or newer models. From all the reading I've done, the major
complaint seems to be the auto climate control, and the unknown
reliability of the expensive-to-fix 3.5 engine. Other than that, most
owners seem to like the car. I don't buy new cars too often and would like to have one that lasts a few years (I just "buried" my '88 Ciera). I can't quite afford a new Intrigue, but I could probably do with a low mileage '00 or '99. Thanks for any opinions. BTW, I'm in the New York City area.