I had a harsh shifting transmission problem which required a complete rebuild, but it did it in all gear ranges, not just 1-2. As for the temp gauge, mine never gets above the 1/2 mark either, but I think this is just due to the Intrigue's excellent cooling system. I have the service manual from the car and the gauge does indeed get engine coolant temp input from the PCM.
didnak, A Cadillac STS or DTS(maybe an XLR) or a Corvette Z06 are about as much as I would spend on a car, even if I were a millionaire. Or maybe a Jaguar XKR as those are sharp and fast. MBs, BMWs, and others just don't do that much more for me.
Has everyone seen pics and reviews of the 03 Accord by now? The more I see, the less I like it. The rear of the coupe is rather interesting, but the blocky, "rubbermaid" look of the front end on both the coupe and sedan just looks too dull and plain. The Sedan is pretty much plain overall with once again, a vanilla personality. Powertrain choices are a bit better and the coupe actually offer a stick with the V6. I wonder if the Acura CL won't be phased out soon as it's sales have been soft and a loaded Accord V6 coupe will cost near $30K and can be had with many Acura features. The Mazda 6 is not bad looking at all, but the engine choices seem kind of weak. I'm looking forward to 2004 and the next generation Grand Prix and GTO from Pontiac. Oh and the CTSi as well:) For high end Accodian prices, the new Saab 9-3 looks to be a very nice alternative. Prices start in the $26K arena and will top near $30K. Never thought I'd be saying that I thought a Saab was good looking.
oldsman : Ya, the 03 Accord is bland. I liked it at first but the more I see the more I'm bored with it. It has a real nice looking interior though. I was driving by a house today and they had an Envoy, a 0-2 year old Vette convertible and a Saab 9-5. What a great choice of cars, I was envious. The new 9-3 looks real good as does the coming Grand Prix and Mazda 6.
jr45 : I get a semi-hard shift from 1-2 occasionally under hard sudden acceleration. I have not done anything about as it doesn't happen often (maybe 1x a week) and I don't think there is really anything they will do to make it better. Nature of the beast I think. As for the temp gauge, mine moves a little, but is usually at around the middle solidly also since the old erratic one was replaced.
I saw those '03 Accord pics and was disappointed too. They seem to be taking a step backwards style-wise. Perhaps they are in a competition with Toyota to see who can make their new sedans the least attractive. Toyotas wins with the Camry, but not by much. Sad to say they will both probably sell all they can make. More's the pity that there is no next-gen Intrigue - I'm sure Olds could have outdone either of them.
I too like the Cad Seville but I have to admit the styling is getting dated. A while back there were a couple on a used lot here (one each of the current generation before and after the facelift - '99 or so?) and the older of the two looked really old, the newer not quite but certainly not fresh. But at least they are a well-styled car with some graceful lines and balance, unlike certain newer Cad models I could name... ;-)
I think the 3.5 does have an excellent cooling system. The car is designed to be able "limp home" with a complete loss of coolant! With no leaks, it should be able to run hard through the Mojave all day long.
The small re-style on the 01/02 models looks good. The older Sevilles look pretty dated now though. Great deals on them, just have to pick a good year as the first two were a little less reliable.
I took my '00 Intrigue GL in for an oil change and to have a few items addressed. They lubed the intermediate steering shaft and this has eliminated those noises. But they forgot to slip the boot back to the the firewall which resulted in gritty sounding engine noise (sounded as if I had an exhaust manifold leak) entering the cabin. I This was especially noticeable with the windows closed while accelerating or climbing a hill. So that took another trip to have that fixed. They were very apologetic. The dash was pulling away from the center a/c vents. They replaced the entire dash pad! Luckily the car was under warranty. I would hate to know how much that cost! But it looks great, and there is no longer a mis-match between the driver's door and dash. Caution. Do not have the dealer replace the wipers. I have no one to blame but myself. I should have asked the all important question (how much?) but didn't. When I got the bill, it listed $22 for new blades, and $38 labor to install! $60 to replace standard size wipers! I was speechless. I could have bought brand name replacements for much less, and labor is all of 5 minutes. Live and learn. Still love the car though. Enjoy.
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
sda: You got the old screw job from the dealer! Almost the exact same thing happened to me. I told my wife to take my car in for an oil change and have the dealer change my air filters (engine & passenger compartment). They charged us the cost of the parts AND labor. Both filters ended up costing $120! When my wife got home and showed me the bill I was furious. I called the dealership and talked to the manager about it. I told him that I refused to pay $120 for two filters and I wanted a refund on the labor. I ended up getting them to refund about $70 to my credit card, so I was happy. Never again! What happened to the old days when you didn't get charged labor for air filters and wiper blades???
That's a rip! I would have complained about the labor charge. Price of the blades wasn't bad, but anyone can put them on, took me almost exactly 5 minutes this spring.
I would go back with your bill and get your money back.
The Seville has not had any real styling updates since it's redesign in 98. The only update is that SLS models get fog lamps, body color grille, and the STS like rectangular exhaust outlets for 2002. 01 STSs started offering HID headlamps and 17" wheels, but this was about it. I've always liked the car and while similar looking, I think the current version looks much better than the 92-97 version. The interior is absolutely top notch. Drive one and you'll understand.
Just read that 03 Intrigues will have a wheel and suspension upgrade along with an increase in hp to about 240. Word also has it that the OSV Intrigue concept with it's superchared version of the 3.5 may appear midyear. Other upgrades include HID headlamps standard on GLS models and optional on GL models while a navigation system will be optional all models. Seating will be enhanced to provide better long haul comfort while still remaining supportive. New colors will borrow from Cadillac with Polo Green replacing tropic teal and Crimson Pearl and Diamond White now offered as extra cost colors. Interior colors will include neutral shale(another Caddy color), pewter grey, and graphite. Pricing will remain in line with current prices and GX models will actually have a few features like Traction Control, 6 speaker dimension sound system, and leather wrapped steering wheel as standard rather than optional. Ooops, then I woke up and realzed there will be no 2003 Intrigue so buyers looking for a stylish and sporty midsize sedan will have to either wait for the 2004 Grand Prix or go with a Nissan Maxima or pay the inflated price for the VW Passat. Or just pinch pennies and buy a Cadillac CTS.
The 94-96 Impala SS is not longer in production. Altough the Impala nameplate still sells, the 94-96 models were produced in very low numbers, packed with high performance, a choice of 3 colors and very few options. Due to the uniqueness of the B Body Impala (V8 RWD, etc) the car has only depreciated 25% since '96. Not even the most vaunted Lexus model can't touch that.
My short sedan shopping list today would be Maxima, Grand Prix, base CTS. I would likely go with a Max as I don't care for the GP interior and the CTS would be a bit much. I really hope the next generation GP is better inside. Still going to enjoy the Intrigue for another 4-5 years so it doesn't really matter at this point. The whole auto world could change by then.
My guage moved just a little bit above the 1/2 mark, with my car absolutely crammed with stuff (probably similar to a 4 passengers). I'd been driving in 98 degree heat, up desert Nevada mountainsides, with the A/C on...
3.5L definately has cooling capacity to spare. GM may have been conservative in this area, (as they were in equipping it with a larger transmission than other W body sedans.)
My gripes about tranny shift points are somewhat mitigated when the car is under full load. I wish I could just trick the computer into thinking the car is 800 lbs heavier than it really is for normal driving....
Also, even loaded up, I was still able to get 31 MPG on level terrain, with the cruise set and the climate control on "econ". The 3.5L seems to have plenty of torque to run efficiently under load.
My preliminary next new car shopping list includes the Cadillac CTS, 2003 Saab 9-3, next generation Pontiac Grand Prix(if they stay close to the G-force concept), Pontiac Bonneville SSEi, or a 3 year old Cadillac STS. I'd consider the Maxima, but it's platform is aging and there are just too many other choices available. If they don't give the next generation Maxima the "boy racer" taillight treatment of the Altima and keep the interior more upline, I might give it a look. Me hopes the next generation GP will have alot of 03 Intrigue elements in it as the next generation Intrigue was surely underway before GM pulled the plug on Olds.
We're straying dangerously off-topic here, but I can't help but comment how odd it seems that someone can love an overdone design mess like the CTS yet be turned off a good-looking car like the Altima just because of a set of (admittedly bad) taillights. I guess beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.
I wonder if those clear Altima taillight covers are removeable? Every time I see one, I think how much better it would look if those plasti-chrome bezels were painted body color.
Test drove a Passat and S40 yesterday.. Wish the new 9-3 were available for comparison as well was the new Mazda 6. Thankfully in pictures the interior of the 9-3 looks like it wasn't subject to the GM parts bin look that our Intrigues are. I swear I'm never going to buy a car with that little plastic finishing piece around the radio/hvac controls that goes down to the little storage bin that it seems every moderate priced GM car has some variation of.
With all the summer road constuction going on here, I'm noticing the ride of my Intrigue is starting to feel less solid.. I'm at 114,000KM's now and some suspension bits may be worn or less effective by now. I would hate to have to replace them with the generic GM suspension bits it appears they started using in later year Intrigues. If I wanted minivan struts or springs I would buy a minivan.
many don't like the Altima (kinda me included although I like the front end just fine). The car doesn't feel solid though, like the Maxima does. I thought my Intrigue was actually quieter than the Maxima GLE I tested.
I sure like the looks of the new G35 though. Anyone that hates the Altima taillamps could just get them painted red. The G35 has all red taillamps and looks good I think.
I've never liked the styling of the CTS. I think it's definitely love it or hate it. I'm excited about the prospect of the ford 500. It'll have european styling which sounds good (and cheaper than a passat).
(fantasy) Look for North America's second offering of GM's new Epsilon global platform in the redesigned 2004 Oldsmobile Intrigue (to be called the OLS o6). Reminiscent of Saab's 9-3, the o6 looks decidedly European. The 2004 "Intrigue" bears almost no resemblance to its predecessor, save for the familiar but better executed front fascia, this time with two small grille inlets, similar to the Bravada.
Though the exterior dimensions are measureably smaller, Oldsmobile claims that the new o6 offers roomier accommodations than its predecessor within a smaller, more taught package.
Features include dual zone climate control, liquid halogenic headlights, electrochromic mirror with compass, tilt and telescope steering wheel, wheel mounted controls.
The car is bolstered by a continued all independent 4 wheel suspension but now rides on MacPherson struts.
Also featured are Oldsmobile's stability control (Precision Control System), electronic brake force distribution and a traction control system. The new car's body is four times as stiff as its predecessor's, dramatically improving ride and refinement.
Buyers of the o6 get the choice of a four or six cylinder engine for the first time. Intrigue's award winning 3.5L DOHC V6 continues in the o6 but power has been upped to 240 horses. The 2.4L DOHC V4 has an impressive 174 horsepower. New for both models is a five speed electronic transmission with rumored lightning quick up and downshifts.
As far as safety features go, the o6 boasts dual-stage front airbags, seat-mounted side airbags and new side-curtain airbags. The car also features rear headrests.
Three trim levels are available. The GX disappears in favor of the L, the sport tuned S and the luxurious LS. The L offers all the above with 16-inch alloy wheels. The LS adds leather, sunroof and bose with real burled walnut trim and chrome wheels. The S offers highly bolstered seats, brushed aluminum interior accents, a sport tuned suspension, and 17-inch alloy wheels.
GM is aiming it squarely at the Volkswagen Passat, Nissan Maxima, Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. The o6 will go on sale in mid 2003, shorly after the Oldsmobile moniker is retired in favor of OLS.
Now that you mention it, I rented a Maxima while on a trip recently and the wind noise was much more noticeable at highway speeds than the Intrigue.
Now, if my Intrigue had the Maxima's guts, all would be right with the world. :-)
I don't think discussion of Intrigue replacements is off-topic, since the car itself will have no successors.
I agree about the Grand Prix, and Pontiacs in general. The interiors are just plain garbage. I drove my parents' Montana this weekend, and I was shocked that GM *STILL* uses that horrible "all-in-one" stalk for cruise, etc. My first car, a 1983 Pontiac 6000, had that exact same thing. And those grey plastic buttons everywhere.. uggh...
Amusingly, the CTS uses a lot of the same GM parts bin leftovers that are in our cars. Nothing wrong with that, I actually REALLY like the Intrigue's interior; everything is very functional and intuitive. Some bits could be more refined, but considering what the car cost, I can't complain.
For those of you who never checked out an Alero, it has basically the same interior but roomier. The sole faux pas is having the cruise button on the dash; my Alero had it on the steering wheel. That's ok, I will gladly trade that for having the stereo buttons on the wheel instead.
Now that I've had the car over two months, I can retract a little of my previous harshness about the Goodyear Eagle LS tires. What they lose in a sporting capacity they make up for in ride quality. Even though I'm only 28, I'll gladly take a little squealing around corners in exchange for a cushier ride. I don't feel every little bump in this car like my Alero with the RSAs, and I appreciate that.
I did notice that GM is putting those RSAs on the CTS, and it amuses me somewhat. You'd think they'd go to Michelin. Even Ford is using a lot of Michelins now, I think they got the message a couple years back.
I just spent a week putting about 1000 miles on a Grand Prix while on vacation. Despite being the same platform, it felt much larger, didn't seem to handle as well and was woefully underpowered with the 3.1 liter engine. OTOH, the ride was fine and the trunk was equally cavernous. I didn't like the dash layout or the single, do-it-all stalk and I could never live with the 3.1 engine after driving the Intrigue.
ab348 : I think the CTS is absolutely gorgeous. Altima is ok and the rear lights ruin it. I would never buy a car and start replacing parts to make it likable to me. I know you hate it, you have said that before. Sales would indicate a lot of people disagree with you.
jg28 : Nice fantasy!
perna : After years of the "smart stalk", I have to say I really liked it. I know auto journalist always hated it though.
lmacmil : I disagree with you that the 3.1L is "underpowered" 170HP is nothing to sneeze at giving the 4 bangers most base sedans have in them. It's no 215HP 3.5, but it's far from underpowered.
The squealing from my tires has annoyed me almost from the beginning. I suppose it is because I got used to riding on the Pilots in the previous Intrigue for so long.
I guess I'm just getting old but I'm looking to compliment the handling with more comfort. The Pilots actually had a nice ride quality although firm (which I like). But now I'm looking to get an Aurora-type feel (despite GM thinking people are "cubes" the usable extra cubic feet in Aurora is less than in the Intrigue and therefore took it off my shopping list). After doing some research I'm going to wait until the Michelin X-1's go on sale ( http://tires.michelin-us.com/catalog/tires/x1.html ).
I'm a Michelin Man (no pun intended :-) ironiclly enough only because the reviews I've read on different tires leads me back to them. If you go to: http://tires.michelin-us.com/ and click "Find the best tire", it will walk you thru selecting the vehicle you own and prompt you to select your driving preference then tell you which tire is good for you. When I did it it told me the X-1 was the one for me. After doing research, it turns out that (on paper at least) this is the one for me.
On the Grand Prix: Don't forget it comes in 3.8 and 3.8 supercharged flavors as well. I think if you drove the 3.8 you'd like the performance as much as the 3.8 Intrigue. For 3.5 drivers, hands down consider the supercharged version.
I agree that for most driving situations, the 3.8 and the 3.5 offer equivalent performance. Last year our rental was a 3.8 equipped Regal and that was just fine.
170hp or not, the 3.1 struggled on long, upward inclines (there are a lot of those in California) and the transmission was working overtime trying to keep it in its powerband. It may not be underpowered relative to the base engines of the competition, but in hilly terrain, it was lacking.
As a sidenote, we were in Carmel when the annual Concours d'elegance was underway. Three blocks of downtown were closed off and about 100 museum quality cars, ranging from a Stutz-Bearcat to Dusenbergs and 50s Jags and Ferraris were on display. Heading south down Route 1 in the afternoon, we must have seen 20 late model Ferraris heading north for the weekend's events. The vehicle scenery was almost as spectacular as the coastal scenery.
I think you are used to one engine and were driving something substantially less is all. I have driven a 3.1L GP and a 4 cyl Camry and I'd take the GP any day for power. Like was stated earlier, the 3.8L is the way to go on a GP. We had one and loved it aside from the dash which was a little on the cheap side.
My 99 has been trouble free, basically, except for those rotors. Today I was told by the dealer that the rotors need to be replaced, and they won't be covered under my GM extended warranty. The base warranty expired two months ago. The dealer says it is just normal wear and tear. Unlike the pulsing problem, he says, this is not covered by the warranty, and the warranty has expired anyway. Is it reasonable for rotors to just wear out after 36000 miles? I have not had that problem with my Volvo. About a year ago (25000 miles?)the pulsing started and the dealer ground the rotors rather than replacing them. GM's recommended fix. That was covered by warranty, but now the rotors are supposedly just worn out and it is my problem. Maybe if they had been replaced, rather than merely ground, I would not be having this problem now. Also, the dealer told me today that the transmission fluid is dirty and needs to be flushed. That astonished me because the dealer recommended flushing the transmission 6 months ago, and I let him do it, even though the manual recommends the service at 50,000 miles, as I recall. How can it need it again after 6 months (5000 miles?)
Some of you may recall that I posted earlier about an intermittent spontaneous door locking problem. It is still going on, but only a few times a month.
Sounds fishy to me. I believe there are two main reasons for turning rotors: if they are scored (because all the lining has worn off the pads and the backing plates gouged into the rotor), or if they are warped. I assume yours were not scored, with only 25k miles, and that the rotors were turned to eliminate the warp. Unfortunately, this probably removed a lot of metal. I assume they have approached the minimum thickness dimension stamped into the rotors. I think I would be inclined to dispute the dealer by arguing these points: In normal “wear and tear,” it is not the rotors that wear, it is the pads. What is the condition of the pads? I know my 99 still has its original pads at 40k mi. and more than half their thickness remaining. I assume these are your front brakes, because they do most of the work. It is not normal for rotors to warp under typical driving conditions, especially after only 25k. One cause might be that when the tires were rotated, they were overtightened with a pneumatic wrench, instead of torqued. But if there is no reason to assume the rotors have been abused, then they should have been replaced under warranty, rather than turned. Turning the pads might remove the warp, but doing so shortens the life of the rotors, in that they can’t be turned again. If the rotors are at or near the minimum thickness but are otherwise smooth and are no longer warped, I don’t know why they would have to be replaced. You should definitely ask to see the rotor surface, and ask what is the actual thickness and the minimum permissible thickness (as stamped into the rotor). If they are less than the minimum permissible thickness, I would ask how they got that way (most likely too much metal was removed in the first turning, not from any “normal wear”). Might be a good idea to stop by a brake specialty shop and get their opinion. With respect to the transmission fluid, this sounds fishy too. I would ask how they determined the fluid was dirty again (most likely by looking at the dipstick), and to show you. If it is really dirty again after 5k mi. it would suggest severe wear, releasing particles into the fluid (very doubtful), in which case they have an obligation to warn you that something is wrong inside the transmission.
I have to agree with craigcul. My front brake pads needed to be replaced to pass inspection at around 26,000 miles. I do about a 50/50 mix of highway and real (not suburban) city driving. So that didn't surprise me. However, the warping rotors concerns me. Cutting them usually takes care of the problem. If it occurs again after cutting, you may have to check to see if the lugs are torqued to spec (I believe it's 100lbs).
On the transmission::: The dealer is full of it. Even without the long-life fluids, regular fluid only needs to be changed every 2yrs/24,000 miles. I tested the supposed long-life fluid in my first Intrigue and it ran to 80,000 miles, never changed and was silkier then than at 20,000. Even if you drove in the dusty conditions that the manual describes you'll notice it still doesn't recommend doing it every 5k miles.
I suggest going to a different dealership. This one's taking you for a ride.
My 2000DX w/ PCS is still truckin' wonderfully--just finished trip from W. of Mpls. along hwy 8 through Wisconsin to the U.P. / Mich. #8 has got to be one of the worst roads (trafficwise) I've ever driven--mostly 2 lane, lots of RVs, logging trucks, etc. and very few places to pass. Trip up (about 400m each way) traffic was generally moving around 55-65, A/C on, passed only once or twice, filled up in Escanaba and was pleasantly surprised to find 34.6 mpg. Trip back was much different--had to really tromp on it to pass probably 15-20 times--thought for sure mileage would really suffer, still got 31.1! Still no warranty issues, good rubber, pads, (now @ 35,800). After driving dogs of SUVs for years, it's fun to enjoy driving again--that 3.5 is one special engine. Unfortunately there's absolutely nothing in the GM fold that interests me as far as available/forthcoming cars are concerned. The 2003 Honda Accord V-6 looks kind of interesting for a year from now or so....GM, why oh why can't you learn your lesson.....
Interesting. A former SUV owner who likes driving a car! I thought once you go SUV you never go back :-)
I'm with you. There is nothing that really excites me about GM's lineup either. And because of being so dog-gone tall, I'm really limited. I saw pictures of the Accord in this month's Automobile magazine. Inside looks like they stopped designing at the clay model stage. But that's just me. The only thing that catches my attention is the Grand Prix G-Force. But I'm sure in typical GM fashion they will dumb the car down to a point where we won't recognize it.
formersuver1 / one2one : New Accord is dull IMO. More I see, the more I don't care for it. New GP should be ok as the Lutz man has had a hand in the revisions. Should see some pictures soon as production likely starts in about 6 months.
david161 : I agree, definitely go get another opinion on your car.
I suspect this is a high profit job for the dealer, thus they recommend it every chance they get. They were probably just too stupid to review your maintenance records or they would have seen the prior service.
I once had a Chrysler dealer tell me I needed a new serpentine belt less than a year and 15k miles after they had replaced it. When I called him on it, he muttered some nonsense about the suppliers testing new rubber compounds on the unsuspecting public. I told him to forget it and I don't think I ever went back again.
I don't buy the rotors are worn out story either. If they aren't pulsing, i.e., warped, there's no way they could have worn below the minimum thickness in normal driving.
I agree with whoever said you need to find another repair shop. This one sounds crooked to me.
I have previously reported on my rotor problem on my '98 Intrigue. To summarize, after having them turned twice under warranty and then needing replacement at 43,000 miles I was able to get GM to replace all 4 rotors at no charge! Now I have 63,000 miles on these replaced rotors and have not had any pulsing problems whatsoever.
david161 - I think that you should push hard for complete replacement under warranty.
Some very helpful and interesting comments from everyone. Craigcul, I think you are right that the grinding, after the defective rotors warped, ultimately forced the replacement today, 10,000 miles later. Ian 18, the resolution GM gave you was the fair result, but it sounds like you had to work hard to get it. I gave up too quickly today. Unfortunately I had not read your interesting story when I did it, but in any event, I have a long trip scheduled Friday and wanted to get the brakes taken care of today. I talked to the service manager at the dealer this morning, mentioned the earlier grinding and the short life of the rotors and was told again, very nicely, that he had looked into the matter and there was no way normal wear and tear of rotors could be covered under warranty. He told me rotors in cars are not as good as they used to be, and my experience is not unexpected. Then I went to my neighborhood Exxon station. They installed Bendix rotors at half the dealers estimate for GM rotors. Maybe with Bendix rotors installed now, instead of G, this set will last a decent period of time. I am still out several hundred dollars for the job. The Exxon station told me that the rotor damage this time was pocking caused by worn brake pads, but of course the earlier grinding had reduced the margin for wear.
Don't feel bad. I don't think they use either the quality of materials or temper the rotors as well as they used to. My '99 Intrigue had a warped rotor with 76 miles on it and my Impala had a warped rotor after 18,000 miles.
It's all part of the learning experience, I guess. My best learning about brakes was on a Mercury Sable, which went through them as if they were made of cheese. I became an expert at changing the pads, and finally a sympathetic service manager told me Ford had been using plastic pistons in their brake calipers, and these warped from the heat, preventing the pads from retracting off the rotor. Unofficially, he suggested I should get some third-party caliper sets with real metal pistons. Sure enough, this fixed the problem. By the way, what did you do about your tranny fluid?
I've posted this one before. It is a short and informative article about why rotors warp. Seems like a hot topic on the board so I am posting it again.
A lot of city driving. I am pretty fast driver but do not brake hard. I got 200K out of the rotors on the Camaro, so it is the rotors not me. And I drive that Camaro hard.
I bought my '98 used with 68K miles. Now has 75K. Had all the original repair records and it showed that the pads were replaced at 55K miles, and the rotors were turned at the same time. I had some minor vibration at 73K and took it to the dealer where they turned the rotors again - no problem since. They did say that the front rotors probably couldn't be turned again and should be replaced if I have another problem. Even recommended going to an independent garage, as their price would be "too high" ($200 per rotor)!
How do you tell when the struts need replacing? As I said, I have 75K on the original set, and don't have any apparent problems, but since I haven't owend the car that long, can't really judge whether ride quality has deteriorated. I asked the dealer and they said "typically" between 75-90K miles. But is there a way to "test" struts to see if they need replacing?
I think the traditional way to check struts has been to push down on each front fender and watch the car rise up again. With good strut damping, there should be no rebound. I suppose you could stop by a dealer lot and compare yours to a newer model. As with brake rotors, it depends a lot on how hard they have been worked. I have a couple of '85 Peugeots that each have over 200k on them, with the original rotors and struts.
After doing all of my Internet research, I have almost decided on an Olds Intrigue as a used car purchase. Only a test drive is lacking. I realize the Intrigue is now discontinued. Does this make it a better used car value or is the situation fraught with danger? Am I in a better bargaining position due to this situation, or do the negatives of the discontinuance outweigh any positives? I would be looking at 1999 or newer models. From all the reading I've done, the major complaint seems to be the auto climate control, and the unknown reliability of the expensive-to-fix 3.5 engine. Other than that, most owners seem to like the car. I don't buy new cars too often and would like to have one that lasts a few years (I just "buried" my '88 Ciera). I can't quite afford a new Intrigue, but I could probably do with a low mileage '00 or '99. Thanks for any opinions. BTW, I'm in the New York City area.
My advice (owner of a 2000 model purchased with 22K miles) is get a 2000 or later and definitely avoid the 1998 (first year of production). In most long term magazine road tests I have read, the first couple of years had some issues, most of which were corrected by 2000. Since the Intrigue is now dead, depreciation is stiff, which is good for the used car buyer. You should be able to get a 1999 for under $10,000 and a 2000 for under $12K. Check Edmunds "TMV" pricing for your area.
Comments
didnak, A Cadillac STS or DTS(maybe an XLR) or a Corvette Z06 are about as much as I would spend on a car, even if I were a millionaire. Or maybe a Jaguar XKR as those are sharp and fast. MBs, BMWs, and others just don't do that much more for me.
jr45 : I get a semi-hard shift from 1-2 occasionally under hard sudden acceleration. I have not done anything about as it doesn't happen often (maybe 1x a week) and I don't think there is really anything they will do to make it better. Nature of the beast I think. As for the temp gauge, mine moves a little, but is usually at around the middle solidly also since the old erratic one was replaced.
I too like the Cad Seville but I have to admit the styling is getting dated. A while back there were a couple on a used lot here (one each of the current generation before and after the facelift - '99 or so?) and the older of the two looked really old, the newer not quite but certainly not fresh. But at least they are a well-styled car with some graceful lines and balance, unlike certain newer Cad models I could name... ;-)
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
I would go back with your bill and get your money back.
My short sedan shopping list today would be Maxima, Grand Prix, base CTS. I would likely go with a Max as I don't care for the GP interior and the CTS would be a bit much. I really hope the next generation GP is better inside. Still going to enjoy the Intrigue for another 4-5 years so it doesn't really matter at this point. The whole auto world could change by then.
3.5L definately has cooling capacity to spare. GM may have been conservative in this area, (as they were in equipping it with a larger transmission than other W body sedans.)
My gripes about tranny shift points are somewhat mitigated when the car is under full load. I wish I could just trick the computer into thinking the car is 800 lbs heavier than it really is for normal driving....
Also, even loaded up, I was still able to get 31 MPG on level terrain, with the cruise set and the climate control on "econ". The 3.5L seems to have plenty of torque to run efficiently under load.
Nissan can really ruin the Maxima if they give it the "Altima treatment". Those clear tail lights are enough to turn me off any car.
I wonder if those clear Altima taillight covers are removeable? Every time I see one, I think how much better it would look if those plasti-chrome bezels were painted body color.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Thankfully in pictures the interior of the 9-3 looks like it wasn't subject to the GM parts bin look that our Intrigues are. I swear I'm never going to buy a car with that little plastic finishing piece around the radio/hvac controls that goes down to the little storage bin that it seems every moderate priced GM car has some variation of.
With all the summer road constuction going on here, I'm noticing the ride of my Intrigue is starting to feel less solid.. I'm at 114,000KM's now and some suspension bits may be worn or less effective by now. I would hate to have to replace them with the generic GM suspension bits it appears they started using in later year Intrigues. If I wanted minivan struts or springs I would buy a minivan.
I sure like the looks of the new G35 though. Anyone that hates the Altima taillamps could just get them painted red. The G35 has all red taillamps and looks good I think.
I've never liked the styling of the CTS. I think it's definitely love it or hate it. I'm excited about the prospect of the ford 500. It'll have european styling which sounds good (and cheaper than a passat).
Though the exterior dimensions are measureably smaller, Oldsmobile claims that the new o6 offers roomier accommodations than its predecessor within a smaller, more taught package.
Features include dual zone climate control, liquid halogenic headlights, electrochromic mirror with compass, tilt and telescope steering wheel, wheel mounted controls.
The car is bolstered by a continued all independent 4 wheel suspension but now rides on MacPherson struts.
Also featured are Oldsmobile's stability control (Precision Control System), electronic brake force distribution and a traction control system. The new car's body is four times as stiff as its predecessor's, dramatically improving ride and refinement.
Buyers of the o6 get the choice of a four or six cylinder engine for the first time. Intrigue's award winning 3.5L DOHC V6 continues in the o6 but power has been upped to 240 horses. The 2.4L DOHC V4 has an impressive 174 horsepower. New for both models is a five speed electronic transmission with rumored lightning quick up and downshifts.
As far as safety features go, the o6 boasts dual-stage front airbags, seat-mounted side airbags and new side-curtain airbags. The car also features rear headrests.
Three trim levels are available. The GX disappears in favor of the L, the sport tuned S and the luxurious LS. The L offers all the above with 16-inch alloy wheels. The LS adds leather, sunroof and bose with real burled walnut trim and chrome wheels. The S offers highly bolstered seats, brushed aluminum interior accents, a sport tuned suspension, and 17-inch alloy wheels.
GM is aiming it squarely at the Volkswagen Passat, Nissan Maxima, Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. The o6 will go on sale in mid 2003, shorly after the Oldsmobile moniker is retired in favor of OLS.
Now, if my Intrigue had the Maxima's guts, all would be right with the world. :-)
I don't think discussion of Intrigue replacements is off-topic, since the car itself will have no successors.
I agree about the Grand Prix, and Pontiacs in general. The interiors are just plain garbage. I drove my parents' Montana this weekend, and I was shocked that GM *STILL* uses that horrible "all-in-one" stalk for cruise, etc. My first car, a 1983 Pontiac 6000, had that exact same thing. And those grey plastic buttons everywhere.. uggh...
Amusingly, the CTS uses a lot of the same GM parts bin leftovers that are in our cars. Nothing wrong with that, I actually REALLY like the Intrigue's interior; everything is very functional and intuitive. Some bits could be more refined, but considering what the car cost, I can't complain.
For those of you who never checked out an Alero, it has basically the same interior but roomier. The sole faux pas is having the cruise button on the dash; my Alero had it on the steering wheel. That's ok, I will gladly trade that for having the stereo buttons on the wheel instead.
Now that I've had the car over two months, I can retract a little of my previous harshness about the Goodyear Eagle LS tires. What they lose in a sporting capacity they make up for in ride quality. Even though I'm only 28, I'll gladly take a little squealing around corners in exchange for a cushier ride. I don't feel every little bump in this car like my Alero with the RSAs, and I appreciate that.
I did notice that GM is putting those RSAs on the CTS, and it amuses me somewhat. You'd think they'd go to Michelin. Even Ford is using a lot of Michelins now, I think they got the message a couple years back.
They are squeal-y... but based on how mine are doing I think they'll last to 50-60K.
jg28 : Nice fantasy!
perna : After years of the "smart stalk", I have to say I really liked it. I know auto journalist always hated it though.
lmacmil : I disagree with you that the 3.1L is "underpowered" 170HP is nothing to sneeze at giving the 4 bangers most base sedans have in them. It's no 215HP 3.5, but it's far from underpowered.
I guess I'm just getting old but I'm looking to compliment the handling with more comfort. The Pilots actually had a nice ride quality although firm (which I like). But now I'm looking to get an Aurora-type feel (despite GM thinking people are "cubes" the usable extra cubic feet in Aurora is less than in the Intrigue and therefore took it off my shopping list). After doing some research I'm going to wait until the Michelin X-1's go on sale ( http://tires.michelin-us.com/catalog/tires/x1.html ).
I'm a Michelin Man (no pun intended :-) ironiclly enough only because the reviews I've read on different tires leads me back to them. If you go to: http://tires.michelin-us.com/ and click "Find the best tire", it will walk you thru selecting the vehicle you own and prompt you to select your driving preference then tell you which tire is good for you. When I did it it told me the X-1 was the one for me. After doing research, it turns out that (on paper at least) this is the one for me.
On the Grand Prix: Don't forget it comes in 3.8 and 3.8 supercharged flavors as well. I think if you drove the 3.8 you'd like the performance as much as the 3.8 Intrigue. For 3.5 drivers, hands down consider the supercharged version.
170hp or not, the 3.1 struggled on long, upward inclines (there are a lot of those in California) and the transmission was working overtime trying to keep it in its powerband. It may not be underpowered relative to the base engines of the competition, but in hilly terrain, it was lacking.
As a sidenote, we were in Carmel when the annual Concours d'elegance was underway. Three blocks of downtown were closed off and about 100 museum quality cars, ranging from a Stutz-Bearcat to Dusenbergs and 50s Jags and Ferraris were on display. Heading south down Route 1 in the afternoon, we must have seen 20 late model Ferraris heading north for the weekend's events. The vehicle scenery was almost as spectacular as the coastal scenery.
Volvo. About a year ago (25000 miles?)the pulsing started and the dealer ground the rotors rather than replacing them. GM's recommended fix. That was covered by warranty, but now the rotors are supposedly just worn out and it is my problem. Maybe if they had been replaced, rather than merely ground, I would not be having this problem now.
Also, the dealer told me today that the transmission fluid is dirty and needs to be flushed. That astonished me because the dealer recommended flushing the transmission 6 months ago, and I let him do it, even though the manual recommends the service at 50,000 miles, as I recall. How can it need it again after 6 months (5000 miles?)
Some of you may recall that I posted earlier about an intermittent spontaneous door locking problem. It is still going on, but only a few times a month.
I believe there are two main reasons for turning rotors: if they are scored (because all the lining has worn off the pads and the backing plates gouged into the rotor), or if they are warped. I assume yours were not scored, with only 25k miles, and that the rotors were turned to eliminate the warp. Unfortunately, this probably removed a lot of metal. I assume they have approached the minimum thickness dimension stamped into the rotors.
I think I would be inclined to dispute the dealer by arguing these points:
In normal “wear and tear,” it is not the rotors that wear, it is the pads. What is the condition of the pads? I know my 99 still has its original pads at 40k mi. and more than half their thickness remaining. I assume these are your front brakes, because they do most of the work.
It is not normal for rotors to warp under typical driving conditions, especially after only 25k. One cause might be that when the tires were rotated, they were overtightened with a pneumatic wrench, instead of torqued. But if there is no reason to assume the rotors have been abused, then they should have been replaced under warranty, rather than turned. Turning the pads might remove the warp, but doing so shortens the life of the rotors, in that they can’t be turned again.
If the rotors are at or near the minimum thickness but are otherwise smooth and are no longer warped, I don’t know why they would have to be replaced. You should definitely ask to see the rotor surface, and ask what is the actual thickness and the minimum permissible thickness (as stamped into the rotor). If they are less than the minimum permissible thickness, I would ask how they got that way (most likely too much metal was removed in the first turning, not from any “normal wear”).
Might be a good idea to stop by a brake specialty shop and get their opinion.
With respect to the transmission fluid, this sounds fishy too. I would ask how they determined the fluid was dirty again (most likely by looking at the dipstick), and to show you. If it is really dirty again after 5k mi. it would suggest severe wear, releasing particles into the fluid (very doubtful), in which case they have an obligation to warn you that something is wrong inside the transmission.
On the transmission::: The dealer is full of it. Even without the long-life fluids, regular fluid only needs to be changed every 2yrs/24,000 miles. I tested the supposed long-life fluid in my first Intrigue and it ran to 80,000 miles, never changed and was silkier then than at 20,000. Even if you drove in the dusty conditions that the manual describes you'll notice it still doesn't recommend doing it every 5k miles.
I suggest going to a different dealership. This one's taking you for a ride.
I'm with you. There is nothing that really excites me about GM's lineup either. And because of being so dog-gone tall, I'm really limited. I saw pictures of the Accord in this month's Automobile magazine. Inside looks like they stopped designing at the clay model stage. But that's just me. The only thing that catches my attention is the Grand Prix G-Force. But I'm sure in typical GM fashion they will dumb the car down to a point where we won't recognize it.
david161 : I agree, definitely go get another opinion on your car.
I once had a Chrysler dealer tell me I needed a new serpentine belt less than a year and 15k miles after they had replaced it. When I called him on it, he muttered some nonsense about the suppliers testing new rubber compounds on the unsuspecting public. I told him to forget it and I don't think I ever went back again.
I don't buy the rotors are worn out story either. If they aren't pulsing, i.e., warped, there's no way they could have worn below the minimum thickness in normal driving.
I agree with whoever said you need to find another repair shop. This one sounds crooked to me.
They don't make 'em like they used to.
david161 - I think that you should push hard for complete replacement under warranty.
My '99 Intrigue had a warped rotor with 76 miles on it and my Impala had a warped rotor after 18,000 miles.
I've never had warped rotors on any car at any time.
http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/part1.html
Going to be crummy running into these these at lights being driven by teens driving daddy's car.
I got 200K out of the rotors on the Camaro, so it is the rotors not me. And I drive that Camaro hard.
How do you tell when the struts need replacing? As I said, I have 75K on the original set, and don't have any apparent problems, but since I haven't owend the car that long, can't really judge whether ride quality has deteriorated. I asked the dealer and they said "typically" between 75-90K miles. But is there a way to "test" struts to see if they need replacing?
Olds Intrigue as a used car purchase. Only a test drive is lacking. I
realize the Intrigue is now discontinued. Does this make it a better
used car value or is the situation fraught with danger? Am I in a
better bargaining position due to this situation, or do the negatives
of the discontinuance outweigh any positives? I would be looking at
1999 or newer models. From all the reading I've done, the major
complaint seems to be the auto climate control, and the unknown
reliability of the expensive-to-fix 3.5 engine. Other than that, most
owners seem to like the car. I don't buy new cars too often and would like to have one that lasts a few years (I just "buried" my '88 Ciera). I can't quite afford a new Intrigue, but I could probably do with a low mileage '00 or '99. Thanks for any opinions. BTW, I'm in the New York City area.