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I know of some factories that make clothes for major labels and let me tell you. those clothes are checked 1 at a time and if a thread is out of place, it is rejected. maybe MB needs to have better QA.
(excuse the exaggerated example, I am from Sri Lanka and it bugs me that people think that things are not of acceptable quality if they are not made where they are designed)
...Serenity now....
Hu-chi-mama!
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Fuzzo -- 'Tis apples and oranges.
Miki
Jason
I believe that the only thing that makes CKD assembly economical is that the country of final assembly has a VERY favourable tax regime in place for such imports, perhaps even a significant subsidy (hear that,WTO?!).
The fact that all of the parts for the CKD kits are partially assembled in Germany makes me wonder why M-B states that Brazilian assembly allows them to produce more C Class worldwide, if the main factory's assembly line capacity is at least partially used up making these CKD kits. Surely it would be just as easy to finish the car off in Bremen...? Unless there is a separate German production line for CKD kits. I don't know.
Which then makes me again suspect that there is a massive subsidy at work here and the Brazilian C-Class production line for export is more about enhancing profitability than increasing production. Who knows, it's all speculation on my part.
Mike
Ask your dealer if they can put the car up on a hoist or (far better because the wheels would be load bearing) a rolling road dynamometer, run it up to the speed that you notice the noise and check for unusual sounds underneath the car using a stethoscope or similar instrument.
Good luck.
Mike
Does anyone have a 2002 brochure who could confirm this?
And yes, all other things again being equal, the car's acceleration may lose a couple of tenths of a second to 60 mph in the process.
Speaking of rear axles and differentials and driveshafts, I also add my vote that this is probably the source of the noise described above - sounds pretty classic given the symptoms.
Hope this helps!
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Also, I am on the wait list for both an M3 and a C32 AMG. The M3 is about $15k more than a well equiped 330i ($51k vs. $36k - through discounted Euro delivery). However, it appears that the C32 is only about $10k more than well equiped C320 ($53k vs. $43k @ msrp). This is particularly interesting since the relative difference in performance between the C32 AMG and C320 is supposedly even greater than the difference between an M3 and 330i. One might conclude that either the C32 AMG is a good value or the C320 is overpriced. Any thoughts/comments?
P.S. I can't imagine the taller gear ratio (5th) of the 2002 model C320 would affect acceleration, since 60 mph would be hit in 2nd/3rd gear and that highway speed acceleration would still cause a downshift to 3rd or 4th. Am I missing something?
>choice.
habitat -- The C320 and the BMW 330i were the only cars I was considering. Now that I am driving the C320, I have no doubt about my decision. Such a car to drive! However, before I bought the 320, my reasons for choosing over the 330i were larger trunk space; better rear view visibility; CD 6-disk player in the glove compartment as opposed to the trunk, factory-installed alarm system, roadside assistance for the life of the car, rather than four years; the Tele Aid feature for emergencies; and there is something special about having that star on your hood. I previously drove a BMW 528.
Miki
And yes, it would not surprise me to know that they are a bit concerned about the relatively poor EPA results for this car; remember a heavier E320 with the same engine gets much better fuel consumption - and that is ALL related to the gearing...just look at the specs. A number of us commented when the C's specs were first announced a year ago that the very tight gearing compared with the previous generation was a surprise, so it is less of a surprise now to see them backing away. Toyota did the same thing with the IS300, and is also rethinking that decision because of high fuel consumption and consumer comments on same.
I am extremely impressed and happy with the car's mileage. As it has always been better than expected mileage performance since day one. I started with 26mpg. Ofcourse,mpg is going to depend alot on your driving style,road conditions and weather.
I try to make my driving fluid as possible. Smooth, even accelerations and decelerations. Seamless lane changes. More throttle control than braking control. And ofcourse,just some good ol'fashion common sense when making driving decisions.
I also stay away from Mobil,which in my opinion and I have read this elsewhere and agree,burns more quickly. I use primarily Amoco and Sunoco. Always selecting the highest octane level available.
Regarding manufacturing origins. My 320 was built in Feb.2001 in Germany. It's been awhile since I looked at the door plate other than when I first took delivery. So, I can't remember whether it stated Bremen or Stuttgart. I'll look again next time I'm in the car. I do remember a piece of paper that was in the glove compartment stating origin of country precentage for parts made and assembled outside of Germany. And if I remember correctly, it stated ninety percent made in Germany. Which I have to admit, made me feel good. As well as seeing the made in Germany plate on my inner door.
is it a normal behavior or I should head back to dealer ? the car picked up last Friday and have only 89 miles on it
how to set door light; I mean is there any indication that would let me know that doors are open or not properly shut
the car is simply great
thanking you in anticipation -
1) "Ticking" noise in idle (as described earlier on the board, a design error with the fuel valve)
2) Squeaking sound from back seat (back seat armrest replaced)
3) Vibrations in idle (not much, but still) -- engine mounts replaced (now the engine is completely quite in idle, impressive).
4) Rumbling sound when driving, probable from some wheel -- mechanic's theory: problem with a forward strut, waiting for replacement part.
5) Memory problem: right rear view mirror does not move when putting the gear in reverse, or moves in arbitrary direction. After they fixed it, I read in the manual that you can program the reverse position, so the problem was "only" that the car lost memory.
6) Memory problem: after the seat moves backwards in "easy entry/exit", when it moves back forward after re-inserting the key, it doesn't move all the way (for my wife's key. It works with my key). Problem not fixed after 2 service visits.
7) Memory problem: it once (OK, "only" once) forgot the memory 1 position for my wife's key.
Since my last service visit, two new problems occurred:
8) The sunroof doesn't open. You have to press the switch repeatedly to make it open all the way, and it doesn't open with the summer opening feature. This time I read the manual before complaining to the service department. I found out that you can resynchronize the sunroof, and after that it works again. So probably "only" some memory/electronic problem.
9) A "ticking" sound when turning the steering wheel.
By itself, these problems don't bother me much. They are small, fixable problems, and otherwise the car drives and feels like a dream (except for a slightly weak/noisy A/C). However, my fear is that they are an indication of long term reliability problems (in particular with the electronics). My previous cars (Hyundai Sonata and Honda Accord) were basically problem free for 3 years. If there is long-term reliability problems, I don't think I will go for MB again. It seems to me that MB might be focusing more on expansion and short-term profit than keeping the value of the brand name. MB must be one of the most valuable global brand names along with Coca Cola etc., and it might seem like the MB management want to use this as a cash cow, e.g., making small mass-market cars (A-class, vanos), pushing through designs before properly tested, and reducing quality control.
Nanky -- no problem, and I appreciate your reply.
>My window sticker came as part of the pre>delivery paper work and my door plate has the >
>same date and assembly point as yours.
I feel better knowing that the "birth certificate" with place and date of birth is in order for the "twins" and happy the car was assembled in Germany.
My thanks.
Miki
I've had the car just six full months now, and have filled up a total of 42 times. It has cost $927.34 for the 465.7 gallons of premium no-lead. In that time, the Merc has carried me 9,775 miles.
This all calculates out to 20.99 miles per gallon at $1.99 per, here in Southern California.
Mileage per fill-up has varied from a low of 18 to a high of 28. I think the variance has more to do with the uncertainty of pumping in a full tank than it does with the actual fuel burn.
On average, each fill-up was only 11 gallons, reflecting a phobia for running the 16-gallon+ tank dry. I would really feel better if I could get a good 400 miles out of a tank of gas, but, alas, it's not to be with this car. (The C32 owners must make a pit stop once a day!)
One final item about gas. I've noticed that just this week my local Chevron has "re-badged" their premium pumps from 92-octane to read 91-octane. Should I worry?
There is a "door open" alarm that sounds and once it does, the color of the information screen changes to from amber to red. I experienced this momentarily as I pulled the car into the garage with the door slightly opened. Since I didn't pay any attention at the time, I can't recall if it stayed on until I closed the door or if it just stayed red for just a few seconds.
Miki - You are welcome! Two days shy of two months and I have 2,200 uneventful miles on the twin. The ticking sound at idle gets to me sometimes and I would rather not have to deal with it. I just got off the phone with a Mercedes tech person and, although they are aware of it as coming from the fuel vapor purge valve, it doesn't sound as if there is a fix in the works. I also learned temperature and the tank level are factors in the loudness of the ticking. The dealer tried insulating it yet I still hear it.
On the second question, no, as long as you are putting 91 octane fuel in the car [and even less, as long it is not a frequent occurrence], there is no reason to be concerned. In those places where the only thing available is 92 or 93 octane, the fact is it is mostly wasted...the engine management computer will dial back the timing to handle lower octane fuel, but it is optimized for 91 and is not going to give you more power if you use a higher number. In high altitude locations, the best that is often available is 89, which is also just fine because the thinner air requires less octane to achieve the same effect. Chevron tends to be the most expensive around, and especially in Calif, there is not much reason to spend the money - the state-mandated blend for RFG means that the days of inferior additive packages in gasoline are gone...you get the same essential cleaning agents from any pump that carries CA RFG. The differences between brands are now mostly cosmetic...in fact there are amusing stories from anyone who works or lives near a refinery [as we did] about just where your branded gasoline actually originates. Suffice to say that anybody's 91 Octane fuel will do...
Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/mercedeschat.html
I personally see no reason why you should have to pay for the new gasket. If that service advisor says you should pay, I would go right to the service manager.
Miki
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
>dealer tried insulating it yet I still hear it.
Nanky -- I was without a computer for a while and out-of town and must have missed your post re above. I have been thinking that so goes your Obsidian, so goes my Obsidian. I have less mileage than you do, however. Has the ticking sound been there from the beginning? Today, for the first time I heard something different, but it did not sound like a "ticking". It sounded more like the engine was pulsating
The ticking must be quite loud for it to annoy you.
Miki
Drew -- ROTFL -- I wonder if there are more out there or we are the only two ???????
Miki
Delurking for a few minutes after reading all the fantastic & educational posts over the past 4 months ....Thank you so much anyway.. I have had my 2001 C240 Elegance since June 27, 3:00 p.m. Did I mention a 4 month wait??????????? the fantastic service at the local MB London, Ontario dealership???? a great salesman - Vince????? yes - it's true all of the above PLUS the car is truly fantastic . Not a problem so far...knock on the laurel wood trim.....after 4500 KM or 2700 miles . I have had none of the problems listed here . No problems with the keys, no noise [ well except for me singing & trying to keep the chrome extra shiney] , nada.........oh yes - the stats - silver interior & exterior - true it's boring but classy, pirelli tires, Comand [ this is totally awesome especially driving around Toronto looking for gas stations & malls ], heated seats - ahhhhhhhhh, sunroof , 6 disc cd player, plus a few other goodies BUT NO tape deck boo hooo . Anyway - I wanted to comment on the cleaning....like when does it stop??? Heck - I take my shoes OFF when I get into the car - oh wait - it gets worse - I have mats on top of the mats that are on top of the carpet.....& cleaning...........hmmmm...just got in from cleaning off the dust, durn bugs......yes - she has finally lost her mind. I was seriously thinking of making everybody who sat in the car wear hospital gowns - reversed of course - but some sort of sanity prevailed .....thank goodness.... so now I'm wondering - how am I gonna handle winter driving - or maybe on second thought - think I'll drive the Honda...whew....but when does this cleaning end?..
Yes, I know - I'm verbose - but I'm making up for lost time . I was also wondering if potential Canadian buyers were aware that there will be a 6.5% import tax slapped on the 02 cars..............& why did I have to sign an agreement not to sell my car to an US buyer within 18 months??????????? okay - I'll go back into lurking mode again..sheesh - see I spared everybody......
Denise
I noticed the ticking sound on day 2 and it's been there ever since. The only time I hear it is when the windows are up with the radio and a/c off. See, since I commute quite a bit and at very odd hours, I have this habit at first start-up of having the engine idle for about half a minute so I can pick out any unusual engine sounds before driving off if I feel it's safe to do so.
Has anyone tried listening to the engine for a minute or so after start-up with the a/c and radio off or is this just an issue with a few cars on this forum? Does it happen with some 240s as well or is it an intermittent 320 "thing"? If it's true it's a result of the design of fuel purge valve, as I have been told, I am still thinking of having the dealer replace the valve to see if it reduces the noise since it appears to be louder in some cars than others and may not be an issue with others.
I can see no reference to Bose in the main manual or in the audio 10 manual.
Should I have a booklet which explains the operation and are there any additional features added with the Bose that I should be able to access?
Thanks in advance, Ronnie
I've read that the 2002 MSRP of the 240 Classic is $37,950, that's nowhere near a 6.5% increase.
Mike
level of the ad player adjusts based upon the
speed of the vehicle. I had this same feature in
a different vehicle and understand the concept to
compensate for wind noise, etc.
My problem is that I can't find reference to this
in the owner's manual so I can disable this feature.
Has anyone else noticed this, turned this feature off, or am I just wacky????
Thanks
Thanks, Ronnie
Does anyone else have this problem? And what is the best way to clean the interior lower door panel without ruining the texture of the fabric. I dont want it to start "balling" up or shedding.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciate!
Took me some time to calculate the totals...
I too keep a "Log Book", as my father did with his '68 Lotus Elan and '59 Vette.
I'm at 5.5 months; 5500 miles
Filled up 22 times;
Cost $439.US
for the 258 US gallons of premium fuel.
This all calculates out to 21.3 MPG at $1.63 avg. here in New Jersey.
I generally fill up with Texaco 93 Octane
(I see Sunoco has a 94 Octane...)