Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Jimr97 has a point that more power per inch is being squeezed out of engines these days. Maybe not radically more though. Perhaps "detuned" was not a great word.
How much more would it have cost for a better exhaust system like Jimr mentioned? I know that it would not cost much at all (if anything) to design a stock air intake that lets the engine take a big breath. It could be wisper quiet too without the growl that my mod does (although I like it).
Anyway, it would have cool if the 4.0 was in the 280 to 300 HP range by now. I think Lexus did it without VVT. I could be wrong, but I don't think they were using VVT in the late 90's yet but got 290 HP and 300 torque from a 4.0.
I still think the Aurora 4.0 is an awesome engine though. Don't get me wrong.
With a true tuned exhaust from the engine to the tail pipe (like Jimr97 pointed out), and a good induction system, the engine output would be even more impressive. I think 280 HP would be a reasonable expectation. Perhaps the imports started paying a little more attention to these aspects to get every last drop out of the engine.
I don't know about the lexus, but I think it had VVT. The 4.2 inline 6 for the little suv's makes 270 hp 275 ft-lbs because it has VVT on exhaust. The nice thing about an inline is that you only need one of everything instead of two. So they only need two overhead cams instead of 4.
I agree that the northstars could all have been upgraded, but I think GM (or Cadillac) has some kind of "thing" about too much horsepower as standard equipment and 300 hp is "perfect".
With VVT and a variable length manifold, a lot more power could be gotten. Probably 300. For the manifold, all you need to do to get a dual length is to have a valve in the middle that connects to the throttle body inflow. Mercedes does this with the 3.2 V6. That engines has good torque @230 ft-lbs, but the horsepower is only so-so @220.
Sounds good?
Call it a DAY
ME and Aurora
Have to end it THIS WAY.
NO reason to pretend
We knew this repair would spell the end.
Lets not pretend.
No more MONEY will I throw your way
NO this is our last today.
Yes evil temptress we did the 139 club!
Yes the highway was our hide-away
But we have come to the End of the Road
We must both let go
WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE PARIS!
They finally got it right in 99.
I came for the performance.
But there is no perfomance here when your car is always in the shop.
I was misinformed.
A 2002 Aurora was quoted to me for $20000.
Should I buy the Aurora or just stay away from it because of its relatively unimpressive quality? Maybe go for a 2002 Maxima GLE?
Thank you for your comments.
Henry - remember when your car was in the shop the last time? I said you should get a second Aurora, so when the one is in the shop, you will still have one to keep you warm. Also this way, you will never get dusted by a minivan again, while driving a loaner. Keep the faith, and keep your warranty.
A question for you all: Why do people buy Auroras? I doubt it is for the amount of horsepower, or I doubt they wonder what it can do in the quarter mile. I think most people see this car, and notice the looks. Then take it for a test drive, and notice its great ride.
We heard her, Odysseus. Our lives
were a small price to pay for that sweet
jasmine voice. And our wives, children,
our countries were no match for her
gaze. Some said she was a kelpie,
Undine, Lorelei, Valkyrie.
They were wrong.
If you survive to read this note beside my
bones, old friend, you'll know too that
she was mightier than them all, and
that her name was... Aurora.
Run. Run if you still can.
ngpro - your idea of why GM let the Aurora sit for five years is not bad, but if after doing nothing for so long, they did come out with a redesigned car - and that had to have begun while the old one was being produced. Any performance ungrades would transfer over to the new car too. There is no explanation for not even offering some different wheels for 5 years other than being asleep at the wheel. I can't see how offering some more wood, leather, wheel options, or an improved intake would require huge $$ in design that was not to be considered - and then they go and redesign the whole car anyway after waiting so long. I still blame bean-counter engineering/marketing.
dishwish - I was always attracted by the look inside and outside. However, for 2 tons of stylish luxury, the car does perform well and holds its own. With the 3.71 (and a few simple mods), you're going to have to spend 50+k to get something significantly faster in a luxury/sport sedan - and it still won't look as cool. Yeah, the ride is great too.
Can someone give me a link where there is a picture of the new Caddy Cien concept?
Why does GM wait 6 model years after the imports to offer VVT on the Northstar? I understand it won't be here until the 2004 model year.
Prediction - when the Caddy finally gets the VVT Northstar, the imports will indeed be offering even more performance yet with special intakes and tuned exhaust on everything. I hope I'm wrong and GM would take two steps forward with the new lineup.
I need to remove the driver-side knee bloster for access. The factory service manual shows removing the filler plates first; left filler plate holds the lighting thumbwheel switches, while the right one holds the trunk and fuel door release swithces. The manual provides no guideance as to how to remove these. Do any of you know? I have figured out the rest of the route to the trunk, paralleling the original single audio harness.
The traction control system is not functioning. The traction offf light is alway on. I tested the car today to see if the traction system was actually off and it was inded OFF.
I will keep it for the Chirstmas holiday so that I will have transportation. I can't believe the car is going back to the shop. There must be
something about the 95's and the 60k-70k repair zone.
When the warranty runs out, so may my assiciation with THIS Aurora. I may start looking for a 1999 now.
Still..I love this car. The new problem I have is with an oil leak that - while not overwhelming - never seems to go away. Can anyone out there advise me about this potential problem? Greatly appreciated.
I will try to find out later if he actually meant $30000. However, I know $30,000 can be better spent else where other than on an Aurora.
I lover the Aurora style very much, even the name, but the poor quality and unimpressive power and ...?
Greg
Greg
Question - how much HP (and torque too I guess) does the AC compressor steal from the engine? I imagine you have the compressor power requirement, and then factor that up by however much is lost through the belts and pulleys to the engine. My guess would be at least 10 HP from the engine to drive it after you figure in all the inefficiencies.
Some old 4 cylinder cars I've had (80 to 90 HP car) would just die when the AC was on. I figure it would take at least 10 to feel it that much. Not sure if bigger cars have bigger compressors either.
The intake on the Impala 3.8 is really bad though. It's hard to believe it is "tuned" or design for good air flow. Most of the air flows through just 5 to 10 square inches of filter area. The clean and dirty air "plumbing" come right up the filter surface. I strongly believe it is this way to eliminate resonations in the air box. There is little volume in that box for any resonation. It's not lined like the Aurora box either.
One good thing about the Impala intake though is that the air feeds pretty much straight through on the same plane. There are no hard 90's like the Aurora. I'm sure that helps a lot. Now if the air was allowed to flow through most of the filter media, I'm sure the losses would be reduced a lot. This box does not lend itself to modification like the Aurora box though.
The northstars should also be tuned on the exhaust side. The tuning only works over a selective RPM range though.
The resonance on the intake side is in the tubes that lead to the valves and not all the way from the throttle plate. The intake runners are ports that connect to a "big" chamber behind the throttle body. By clever design one can have more than one port for a runner, so that the length of the runner can be varied electronically to shorten the runner at high engine speeds.
By resonation, I was just referring to the general intake noise (perhaps the resonation you describe being created) being amplified by the open volume inside the air box (like a drum). That's what I get now from my modified air box after taking out the inner liner and bottom devices.
The Impala air box minimizes the amount of open volume to reduce the "amplification" - my theory at least.
I hope to get before and after air box pictures added to the caddyinfo.com site.
Any place where I can see the new Caddy Cein concept pictures?
http://www.wieck.com
click on public and search for cien - there are 3
there are also some northstar pictures here
The concept car looks like you could seriously lacerate yourself just washing it. However The side view of the future evoq (whatever) is incredible. Anything resembling that in a 4 door would be very cool.
Right Mike?
Greg
I wish Zinc the very best. I hope his next car is true to him.
His story about the certain ethnic auto shop, while sad, is funny in a way. I can almost see these guys in some sort of comedy show from the way Zinc describes them.
My 98 has 25k now and only had a water pump under warranty. It's been otherwise great. I'm not sure I want to own this thing up in the 100k area though. I just love the car, but if it acted up anything like that I'd go crazy. A relative of mine just had to dump $5k into an Infinity that is at the 100k mark too and her stories scare me. These technical cars can kill your wallet. Maybe I should buy the extended warrany when mine runs out.
I sure hope the majority of the problems are just with the 95's and 96's, but I have nothing specific to base that hope on. Does anybody have any thoughts. How about you Henry??
I had heard stories before I brought my car that the 95's had transmission issues (basically anecdotal evidence from talking to folks).
I think they got it right for the last year (1998 was suppose to have been the last year for the Classic but the strike at GM put it back a year). For some reason GM gets ride of cars just when they finally get them right. Remember the Fiero?
By the way, the problem with the traction control is in the ABS system and will cost $900 to fix. The issue for me is that the warranty company will probably not renew my contract because the repair costs are so CLOSE to the BOOK VALUE of the 95.
I mentally totalled up the cost of repairs, modifications and maintenance over my past three years of owning the car. Best Guess is about $10,000. That is a lot of money.
I always called my Aurora a she. But to do this to me, it has to be a he.
The sad thing is that I started this Board in 1997 when I first thought about buying the car. I hate to drop out of the forum because the repair costs are as celestial as the car's name plate.
I know that you've had a very rough time, and I'm sorry, but please be careful of the language - implied or outright - in your posts.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
I can now hear the rattling of what sounds like the water pump going out. I kind of remember this sound from when the pump went on my Honda many moons ago.
By the way, you owe a DATE to the guy that guessed I would have my car back before Christmas.
PLEASE pick an inexpensive diner. Remember, the guy owns an Aurora.
I hope you also sprung for the in-house dessert as well as the after-dinner liqueurs and perhaps some coffee drinks with genuine whipped cream? Surely the contest winner deserved the best, right?
:-)
Happy New Year to everyone!
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
That "marginal" stuff was really funny. I don't see what is so close. Very careful I'd say.
(Many more to be sure) TSB 43-50-07(09/94) advises that voltage surge
in left coolant fan can damage the EBCM/EBTCM module. GM tells
dealer to install PN 12165487 Jumper Harness with surge suppression
diode to remedy problem (on 95 Aurora and some 95 Rivieras)--Tried with
no sucess to get them to install at their expense (out of warranty- 58k).
Harness runs about $200 but module runs about $750 (parts only) Based
on your experience, guess I should have it installed.
Greg
I'm not aware of any comments good or bad about the reliability of the 98 and 99's on this board. Maybe that's good. People tend not to speak up about "few/no problems" like they do if something goes wrong.
Edmunds rates the reliability of the later years higher than the earlier. They must be referencing some sort of data base.
I'm still hopeful.
This is a "fix" prescribed by GM for 95 Auroras to prevent a voltage surge
from the LH Coolant Fan from damaging the EBCM/EBTCM (module
part #25625047)--If module is already damaged they are instructed to
install both the jumper and a new module. ( to rectify a condition when the
amber abs and tcs lights stay on)--They can determine if a diode has been
previously installed on a prior service visit by checking voltage or by the
presence of a diode splice in the main body harness near the LH coolant
fan. If module is already damaged don't think jumper harness would help.
It would appear reasonable that if GM send out a TSB in 9/94, the General would have fixed the problem on the line so that my 12/94 Classic would not have had this problem.
Make Sense?
I have my service guy looking inot the TSB that you mentioned. Because it is a fix of a design problem, my waranty company will not pay for the update to the car's system. Are you sure of the TSB number and would it be possible for you to email or fax me a copy???
Henri