No, the SRT4 is nowhere near a sports sedan, you are confusing straight line performance with sports sedan characteristics, which are neutral. I have even heard about torque steer on the WRX.
I am looking to replace my 1991 Maxima SE (225,000 miles). Have put a good amount of money into it over the past 5 years. Still a good car.
Considering Acura TL and Honda Accord 6 cylinder (looked at Acura TSX---only 4 cylinder, BMW 330ix---too expensive---over $40,000.00, Infiniti G35---middling rating by Consumer Reports). Both are rated excellent by Consumer Reports. But only the Accord is again on the Car and Driver Best 10 car list and won its class competition in Road and Track. Car and Driver review notes a torque steer concern with the Acura TL.
The Acura TL is available without navigation for about $31,000.00 in New Jersey and the current Honda Accord EX-V6 for a little over $24,000.00. The Acura TL has a slightly upscale name and a little more luxury. The Honda Accord may well be the better value, and with interior back seat and trunk advantages, and less torque steer, maybe even a better car overall.
And it has just been confirmed that the Honda Accord V6 will have a HYBRID ENGINE option sometime this year. This may well tilt the balance for those of us on the fence. Besides value, etc., gas mileage over 30 mpg, using less fuel, etc. And with gas prices expected to climb to as much as $3.00 a gallon this summer, or soon thereafter.
by definition, are not meant to sleep well together, otherwise we'd not call it luxury. If TL is truly a more luxurious car than Accord, I'd be glad to dough out $7K for it, like I did on an ES over Camry. On area I don't see TL being more luxurious than Accord EX/leather is interior materials and refinement. Other than a fancier light on dash, and a few more buttons on console, the suff TL has on doors, seats, floor, arm rests, cupholders, glovebox... are no better than Accord's (EX/with leather). For pure driver who mainly focus on the handling and power, it's no biggie, but I happen to think that's the easiest way to show luxury. I wish TL can put more efforts on its interiors. It's just not cut out to be a luxrury car from the interior perspective.
"And with gas prices expected to climb to as much as $3.00 a gallon this summer, or soon thereafter."
I'm still waiting for someone to provide a link to an AUTHORITIVE definition of the term "sport sedan". Can anyone support bmwdoug's contention that RWD is a requirement?
at least in its current state of the technology. For example, I think the Civic Hybrid in Canada sells for about $9,000 CAD more than its gas counterpart. It's wonderful technology, but I can buy a lot of gas for $9K, and don't have to put up with the reduced performance.
"Just buy a used Civic, dump about $10g worth of mods into it and you have a car that can even beat a WRX and that's cheaper than a WRX. But so what?"
Kd, Changed your mind so fast? Civic is still FWD and if you say it' s better than AWD WRX it should be way better that 330 or G35. Dont meter the money or weight this proves that FWD can have better preference, handling than RWD. With that said we all see that FWD car can very much be a sports sedan/coupe.
Going back to subject TL is a grate performance car, may be not as good as 330, but in the same league. If you just want to move around in a nice vehicle Accord will do, but if you want more performance, handling better materials, and quiet ride, TL is your car
"Can anyone support bmwdoug's contention that RWD is a requirement?"
There is a board in News and Views (I think) of what is the definition of a sports car, sports sedan etc. I think they all agreed on one thing, torque steer is not a requirment. It may be a sporty riding sedan, but I believe TS disqualifies those who have that characteristics.
It's not that an SRT4 can outpace a 330i. But what happens when you add an extra 100HP ala the M3. An SRT4 with an extra hundred HP would be awesome if not unbalanced, an M3 handles it just fine.
As to projected gasoline prices, there was a recent story on the national news (CBS Evening News I recollect) as to the situation wherein gas prices are climbing this winter, when they should be falling. About 50% higher than recent winters? The expert on stated that prices could well reach $3.00 a gallon this summer. You can expect to see prices keep climbing over the next few years, in any event.
Based on reviews of the TL and Accord 6cyl (not just price alone, an important factor to consider, in any event), the Accord may well also be the better car. Besides Consumer Reports rating both cars as excellent, read Consumer Guide, Car and Driver and Road and Track. And with a hybrid engine to be available in the Accord, the method of the future (whether Honda version, Toyota version, etc.).
My point was that anybody with funds can take any car and make it better faster stronger. But that won't ever make a Civic handle like a balanced sport sedan. Take the same $10g add the aftermarket mods into a G35, 330i or IS and you've got a hot-rod sedan at a fraction of the price of it's super-car brethern. Which, importantly will handle neutrally.
My bike has a rwd. It has all the features that one might need. VSfA (VSA) Vehicle stabilisator feet Assistance. Heated seats (summer) and cooler seats in winter. Horse power depends on my dad's car cherokee or f150. Sound system TBS (Train or Bus Sound), and it has ABS (All Brakes Slow) on its brakes . About Value its always the best, no gas needed just Mc donald or burger king. It has the best alarm my little brother and his dog timmy. It bark and bite while my brother crys. Mirror pivoting well in my case my head pivots. Heated mirror usually I blow it with my foggy mouth breath. Triptronic or maybe trip chronic, My brother always fall and trip while using that bike. It has anykind of roof you want, sun, moon and now I kept it in the attic below the roof.
It was a luxury to me when I was 10. Back to the topic : All cars are good
Have any of you driven both cars? You can totally feel the difference between the cars. The Accord has pretty good pickup but no where near the pickup or handling of the TL. The Accord interior is nice for its class but doesn't come close to the TL interior. Also the exterior of the accord is just plain ugly especially the back. The TL exterior has nice lines and great wheels. Some things that surprise me are why would they make XM standard on the Accord and the TL? It should be an option on the Accord.
Cant agree more but people who have never driven them both always wrote otherwise. Especially when TL outrank other car. But I understand them by pushing TL to be in the same class as the accord while experts think otherwise.
I must go back to look at TL interior again. Last week's visit did not convice me that it's any better than Accord EX/leather. I know TL drives better from power and handling, has more luxy features, looks more sleek, and got A rather than H as symbol, but the interior materials is really so so. Some minor things bother me too. Sunglass holder on top is std on Accord and most Honda but why a more luxy TL does not have that? Not a big deal but still. The covers under center console of EX looks nicer than TL's too.
I've had an Accord for more than 10 years, and believe me would love to change to TL, if it can help me out just a bit on the interior setting.
Both cars are okay, both cars have good resale value, better gas mileage etc. Believe it or not the company pay ACURA engineer more to build a better class of car. but if I were you and to choose Accord, I would rather drive the ES but if I were to choose TL, then TL will be my car not my wife's. Remember to test drive it, dont just sit in it. It is all up to you, how much you want to spend and how are u gonna use the car for. Nothing wrong with both of them. They made quite a leap of improvement while others probably gonna take 2-5 years more to update. I went to a dealer those cars are really flying (2 cars were sold during my negotiation aprrox 1 hour) but that was before 8 jan. I dont know now but I guess you could tell me by then. With CS ranked TL #1 over BMW330i There is no better way of saying I love this car
The value of each car depends on what the individual buyer is looking for. Family sedan leaning buyers (value, passenger/cargo room, something for everyone) accord would tend to win. Buyers looking for a bit more prestige and willing to trade off slightly less room and seeking a slightly smaller car with better handling and a few more useful features like stability control and better brakes and a good performance tire option and a stick option would tend to choose th TL over the Accord, especially when and if they start seriously discounting the TL.
Btw, the TL competes not just with the Accord (and the less powerful tsx) but other fine cars that cost much more. Buyers looking to move up from an Accord or down from something like a loaded 330i but don't want to move all the way to $40k+ or back down to a basic family sedan would see TL as something of a value selection with all its goodies that can't be had for the price in other near lux brands. It may not be the absolute best car, but it is a an extremely good car for the money when you want sporty luxery and reliability at a competitive price. It looks even better if the fwd vs rwd issue is no biggie to you.
I don't 'want' another Accord. As good as it is, I just refuse to spend another 10 years on it. With already an ES in the garage (my wife took it tho), I'd think TL is the natural target for myself. I am just a bit let down by the int. materials. It's really not bad, just not that much better than Accord's as ES over Camry's. Then again, TL's ext. is much sleeker than Accord's. I know, for $30K, you can't be too greedy.... Will chk out TL again.
Acura is another division of Honda (same company). nobody said it's all different engineers (only some) since they work for a better class of car than Honda. And of course they got paid more for designing more otherwise the outcome would be identical as Honda. More research on what type of market segment that they are after. Cant be done all by the same person? I dont know about that but I worked at Motorola and everyone knows about specialization.
Quoted: "Acura's deep-seated commitment to performance started at the very beginning - well before Acura Division was founded. Soichiro Honda, who founded Honda Motor Co., Inc., in 1948, was a racing enthusiast at heart. He steered the company into competitions early on and the racetrack has provided an indispensable training ground for engineers and designers of Acura vehicles. ***************************************************************** ************************************ Using it as a high-speed laboratory, designers and engineers learn and apply their craft under intense pressure, where the difference between success and failure is measured in hundredths of a second. Engineers who cut their teeth on championship racing engines are often assigned to design the engines of Acura's passenger cars. In fact, the chief engineer of the race-inspired engine of the new Acura RSX sports coupe previously worked on championship-winning Honda Formula One engines. " from Honda beat news 2004
How can I concentrate on designing new acura car if I have to go back and forth designing Accord too.
It's amusing how a discussion between the Accord and the TL becomes a debate about RWD/FWD, when neither car is RWD.
In any case, I feel that the TL has a better quality interior (such as around the shifter), but not by much. Initially, I didn't like the rear styling of the Accord, but I've really warmed up to it lately. I've always thought that front and side looked fine. The TL is also pleasing to the eye.
It seems that the street price difference between an EX-V6 and a base TL is about $7000. So for $7000 you get (value in parantheses is entirely subjective):
More power ($800) Better handling ($800) Better interior quality ($800) Better stereo w/ 5.1 capability ($300) Bluetooth phone compatibility ($0) Memory seat and mirrors ($300) Driver's seat power lumbar ($100) Passenger power window auto-up ($50) Heated side mirrors ($150) Reverse auto-tilt side mirrors ($100) Auto-dimming rearview mirror ($150) Trip computer ($100) Manual shift automatic ($200) Stability control ($600) Brake assist ($300) Xenon lights ($700) Fog lights ($200) Bigger rims ($300) Longer warranty ($200) Roadside assistance ($200) Prestige ($0) Exclusivity ($300)
Total ($6650)
Did I miss anything? A lot of people say that the TL is basically the same car as the Accord EX-V6 with a few more extras, but those few extras do seem to add up to justify the price difference. Given my situation, I could really use the extra space and folding rear seat of the Accord, so I would probably get the Accord in the future. FWIW, the Accord gets slightly better gas mileage and runs on regular gas, versus premium in the TL.
Having been a previous Accord owner and now on my second TL, I have to say that the 2004 is by far the best Accord, Honda has ever made. If it wasn't for the fact that you can't get a 6-speed manual with the 4-door V6 Accord sedan, my decision to get the 04 TL-6sp would have been a lot more difficult.
That's a very comprehensive list. But since we're being subjective, I can probably add a couple of other elements:
Better position of the security LED light ($200) Nice classy "beep" sound for the keyless entry vs. annoying horn blast ($200) Wider rubber ($400) Better styling ($900) Prestige ($300)
That revised the tally to $8,650, which puts the TL $1,650 AHEAD!
So not only is the TL a better overall car, it is actually a better VALUE!!
This has been fun. I have never seen so many people try to justify their car purchase. It makes a person wonder if we have a lot of buyers remorse. An extra $8,000 in the pocket or out of the pocket produces a lot of emotions.
hmmm... I wonder if this isn't what BMW owners are doing when they come to a discussion labeled TL vs. Accord EX-V6 and start preaching about priceless BMW handling and the joy of RWD.
I know, I know, someone else must have "started it" by knocking BMW's, or God forbid, saying that the TL is just as nice as the 330i at a lower price.
My rule of thumb is when comparing the upmarket and downmarket versions of a car (like TL and Accord or ES330 and Camry), I'm willing to pay up to $6k more. After $6k, I draw the line.
In my area, the street price difference between a non-Nav Accord and non-nav TL is $5k so I'd go with the non-nav TL. With Nav, the difference is more like $7k plus so if I had to get Nav, I'd go with the Accord.
However, I'm sure that eventually Honda's Nav supplier will increase supplies in light of current demand and then the "Nav premium" will disappear.
I like the Accord v6, but really, in terms of power, acceleration, handling (the Accord feels mushy to me) and fun toys, it's no contest, the TL kicks the Accord's ugly butt. It's just a matter of how much more you're willing to pay.
Also, remember that the Accord is now a 2nd year model, so all the first model year warts have been eliminated.
I'm confident given Honda's renewed commitment to Acura that when the TL hits its 2nd model year (which is when I'll buy) and gets its first model year glitches worked out, the distance between the TL and Accord will grow even wider.
A big difference is whether or not you are planning on the EX V6 6MT or the AT V6. If you are comparing the TL 6MT to the Accord V6 6MT, I would honestly drop the 5k for the TL. Those 4 piston caliper/cross slotted rotors on the fronts w/ 2 piston caliper/slotted rotors on the rears(brembo) make all the difference (on top of the performance suspension).
All in all, I highly consider getting the TL and here is my breakdown: LED taillights/sidemarkers/appearance: (1500) Heated outside mirrors: (250) TCS & Brake Assist (1000 being generous here) Memory seats: (250) Auto tilt down reverse: (neck works fine, haven't had any problems yet) Dealer service/Loaner car: (1500 honestly) Longer warranty - see dealer service Dual HID's: (1000) Tiptronic Transmission: (250 fun factor) Better suspension(than V6 Accord): (250) Better leather (250)
My one thing that I swear will save most arguments in a car---- Dual Climate Control!!
So I come up with $6250... then I have to factor in the prestige thing... ah... what's prestige? =o) If they added in at least the brembo brakes on the AT TL, it would be worth it IMHO. I personally like the ride much better than the Accord, and when I add in my value to the add in stuff, it isn't exactly a no-brainer, but it does make it easy to justify spending the extra money.
I honestly believe that everyone justifies a purchase no matter how large. Why would you buy something if you couldn't justify your purchase.
Don't you have to pay more for each scheduled maintenance by Acura vs. Honda's? I mean it's better service with loaners and that but you have to pay for it right, not that they give it to ya free.....
What's a 15,000 miles service for TL by Acura dealer cost? And what's that for Accord by Honda. Not to mention that for Honda's you can find many 3rd party specialists doing it as good with even less. No free loaner or car wash tho.
I have not compared my Honda v. Acura service costs, but it doesn't strike me that the Acura is appreciably more. And any third party that can service your Honda will be able to service your Acura, although I've never considered using a third party service outlet.
I know for sure my Acura dealer had every other oil change free for me,however I went elsewhere because there Service Department sucked.
I think the dealership you purchased the vechicle from have some sort of incentive for you to use there Service Department- after all that is where they generate most of their revenues.
Also the dealership where I bought my wife's Accord gives me a 10% discount on labor and parts.
I pay little or nothing for oil changes.
My advise to you is- do some inquiring into the Service Department from where-ever you are going to purchase from.
Wow, Honda is now giving free car washes with every service, even for a "lowly" Civic :-) Where do you guys live ... I know bodble2 lives in Canada. Although I don't want to move North yet (since I have heard about sub-zero temps with wind chills in the minus 35 to 45 range for all or a greater part of last week), it certainly is tempting
Comments
No, the SRT4 is nowhere near a sports sedan, you are confusing straight line performance with sports sedan characteristics, which are neutral. I have even heard about torque steer on the WRX.
He ain't talking about the aftermarket tuners scene.
"Most supersedans do not have FWD or AWD." Maybe not in North America.
Considering Acura TL and Honda Accord 6 cylinder (looked at Acura TSX---only 4 cylinder, BMW 330ix---too expensive---over $40,000.00, Infiniti G35---middling rating by Consumer Reports). Both are rated excellent by Consumer Reports. But only the Accord is again on the Car and Driver Best 10 car list and won its class competition in Road and Track. Car and Driver review notes a torque steer concern with the Acura TL.
The Acura TL is available without navigation for about $31,000.00 in New Jersey and the current Honda Accord EX-V6 for a little over $24,000.00. The Acura TL has a slightly upscale name and a little more luxury. The Honda Accord may well be the better value, and with interior back seat and trunk advantages, and less torque steer, maybe even a better car overall.
And it has just been confirmed that the Honda Accord V6 will have a HYBRID ENGINE option sometime this year. This may well tilt the balance for those of us on the fence. Besides value, etc., gas mileage over 30 mpg, using less fuel, etc. And with gas prices expected to climb to as much as $3.00 a gallon this summer, or soon thereafter.
Avram
"And with gas prices expected to climb to as much as $3.00 a gallon this summer, or soon thereafter."
Where is that from?
Kd, Changed your mind so fast? Civic is still FWD and if you say it' s better than AWD WRX it should be way better that 330 or G35. Dont meter the money or weight this proves that FWD can have better preference, handling than RWD. With that said we all see that FWD car can very much be a sports sedan/coupe.
Going back to subject TL is a grate performance car, may be not as good as 330, but in the same league. If you just want to move around in a nice vehicle Accord will do, but if you want more performance, handling better materials, and quiet ride, TL is your car
There is a board in News and Views (I think) of what is the definition of a sports car, sports sedan etc. I think they all agreed on one thing, torque steer is not a requirment. It may be a sporty riding sedan, but I believe TS disqualifies those who have that characteristics.
It's not that an SRT4 can outpace a 330i. But what happens when you add an extra 100HP ala the M3. An SRT4 with an extra hundred HP would be awesome if not unbalanced, an M3 handles it just fine.
Based on reviews of the TL and Accord 6cyl (not just price alone, an important factor to consider, in any event), the Accord may well also be the better car. Besides Consumer Reports rating both cars as excellent, read Consumer Guide, Car and Driver and Road and Track. And with a hybrid engine to be available in the Accord, the method of the future (whether Honda version, Toyota version, etc.).
Avram
My point was that anybody with funds can take any car and make it better faster stronger. But that won't ever make a Civic handle like a balanced sport sedan. Take the same $10g add the aftermarket mods into a G35, 330i or IS and you've got a hot-rod sedan at a fraction of the price of it's super-car brethern. Which, importantly will handle neutrally.
Mirror pivoting well in my case my head pivots.
Heated mirror usually I blow it with my foggy mouth breath. Triptronic or maybe trip chronic, My brother always fall and trip while using that bike. It has anykind of roof you want, sun, moon and now I kept it in the attic below the roof.
It was a luxury to me when I was 10.
Back to the topic :
All cars are good
As I just posted in another comparo, some of this conversation would be properly placed in our FWD, RWD and AWD - what is best for a sedan? discussion.
And there are lots of conversations on our News & Views board that some of you may want to join.
Meanwhile, let's get back to the subject at hand.
Thanks.
I've had an Accord for more than 10 years, and believe me would love to change to TL, if it can help me out just a bit on the interior setting.
Btw, the TL competes not just with the Accord (and the less powerful tsx) but other fine cars that cost much more. Buyers looking to move up from an Accord or down from something like a loaded 330i but don't want to move all the way to $40k+ or back down to a basic family sedan would see TL as something of a value selection with all its goodies that can't be had for the price in other near lux brands. It may not be the absolute best car, but it is a an extremely good car for the money when you want sporty luxery and reliability at a competitive price. It looks even better if the fwd vs rwd issue is no biggie to you.
Where did u hear this? The same design/engineers that work on a Honda also work on the Acura. Same goes for the plant for assembly.
I know this first hand..........
Quoted:
"Acura's deep-seated commitment to performance started at the very beginning - well before Acura Division was founded. Soichiro Honda, who founded Honda Motor Co., Inc., in 1948, was a racing enthusiast at heart. He steered the company into competitions early on and the racetrack has provided an indispensable training ground for engineers and designers of Acura vehicles.
***************************************************************** ************************************
Using it as a high-speed laboratory, designers and engineers learn and apply their craft under intense pressure, where the difference between success and failure is measured in hundredths of a second. Engineers who cut their teeth on championship racing engines are often assigned to design the engines of Acura's passenger cars. In fact, the chief engineer of the race-inspired engine of the new Acura RSX sports coupe previously worked on championship-winning Honda Formula One engines. " from Honda beat news 2004
How can I concentrate on designing new acura car if I have to go back and forth designing Accord too.
In any case, I feel that the TL has a better quality interior (such as around the shifter), but not by much. Initially, I didn't like the rear styling of the Accord, but I've really warmed up to it lately. I've always thought that front and side looked fine. The TL is also pleasing to the eye.
It seems that the street price difference between an EX-V6 and a base TL is about $7000. So for $7000 you get (value in parantheses is entirely subjective):
More power ($800)
Better handling ($800)
Better interior quality ($800)
Better stereo w/ 5.1 capability ($300)
Bluetooth phone compatibility ($0)
Memory seat and mirrors ($300)
Driver's seat power lumbar ($100)
Passenger power window auto-up ($50)
Heated side mirrors ($150)
Reverse auto-tilt side mirrors ($100)
Auto-dimming rearview mirror ($150)
Trip computer ($100)
Manual shift automatic ($200)
Stability control ($600)
Brake assist ($300)
Xenon lights ($700)
Fog lights ($200)
Bigger rims ($300)
Longer warranty ($200)
Roadside assistance ($200)
Prestige ($0)
Exclusivity ($300)
Total ($6650)
Did I miss anything? A lot of people say that the TL is basically the same car as the Accord EX-V6 with a few more extras, but those few extras do seem to add up to justify the price difference. Given my situation, I could really use the extra space and folding rear seat of the Accord, so I would probably get the Accord in the future. FWIW, the Accord gets slightly better gas mileage and runs on regular gas, versus premium in the TL.
Better position of the security LED light ($200)
Nice classy "beep" sound for the keyless entry vs. annoying horn blast ($200)
Wider rubber ($400)
Better styling ($900)
Prestige ($300)
That revised the tally to $8,650, which puts the TL $1,650 AHEAD!
So not only is the TL a better overall car, it is actually a better VALUE!!
better dealer service ($300)
loaner car and free car wash ($200)
admiration from other entry lux car owners ($800)
But you need to subtract the following:
disagreement from Accord owners (-$1200)
Overall, you still come out ahead, albeit not by a big margin :-)
I know, I know, someone else must have "started it" by knocking BMW's, or God forbid, saying that the TL is just as nice as the 330i at a lower price.
In my area, the street price difference between a non-Nav Accord and non-nav TL is $5k so I'd go with the non-nav TL. With Nav, the difference is more like $7k plus so if I had to get Nav, I'd go with the Accord.
However, I'm sure that eventually Honda's Nav supplier will increase supplies in light of current demand and then the "Nav premium" will disappear.
I like the Accord v6, but really, in terms of power, acceleration, handling (the Accord feels mushy to me) and fun toys, it's no contest, the TL kicks the Accord's ugly butt. It's just a matter of how much more you're willing to pay.
Also, remember that the Accord is now a 2nd year model, so all the first model year warts have been eliminated.
I'm confident given Honda's renewed commitment to Acura that when the TL hits its 2nd model year (which is when I'll buy) and gets its first model year glitches worked out, the distance between the TL and Accord will grow even wider.
A big difference is whether or not you are planning on the EX V6 6MT or the AT V6. If you are comparing the TL 6MT to the Accord V6 6MT, I would honestly drop the 5k for the TL. Those 4 piston caliper/cross slotted rotors on the fronts w/ 2 piston caliper/slotted rotors on the rears(brembo) make all the difference (on top of the performance suspension).
All in all, I highly consider getting the TL and here is my breakdown:
LED taillights/sidemarkers/appearance: (1500)
Heated outside mirrors: (250)
TCS & Brake Assist (1000 being generous here)
Memory seats: (250)
Auto tilt down reverse: (neck works fine, haven't had any problems yet)
Dealer service/Loaner car: (1500 honestly)
Longer warranty - see dealer service
Dual HID's: (1000)
Tiptronic Transmission: (250 fun factor)
Better suspension(than V6 Accord): (250)
Better leather (250)
My one thing that I swear will save most arguments in a car---- Dual Climate Control!!
So I come up with $6250... then I have to factor in the prestige thing... ah... what's prestige? =o) If they added in at least the brembo brakes on the AT TL, it would be worth it IMHO. I personally like the ride much better than the Accord, and when I add in my value to the add in stuff, it isn't exactly a no-brainer, but it does make it easy to justify spending the extra money.
I honestly believe that everyone justifies a purchase no matter how large. Why would you buy something if you couldn't justify your purchase.
What's a 15,000 miles service for TL by Acura dealer cost? And what's that for Accord by Honda. Not to mention that for Honda's you can find many 3rd party specialists doing it as good with even less. No free loaner or car wash tho.
BTW, does Acura give any free scheduled services as part of a car purchase? I know Honda does not.
I think the dealership you purchased the vechicle from have some sort of incentive for you to use there Service Department- after all that is where they generate most of their revenues.
Also the dealership where I bought my wife's Accord gives me a 10% discount on labor and parts.
I pay little or nothing for oil changes.
My advise to you is- do some inquiring into the Service Department from where-ever you are going to purchase from.
For your Acura by an Acura dealer's service? How do that happen? How about 7,500/15K/30K miles services? How do they charge on top of free oil change?
BTW, does Honda service wash your wife's car like Acura does?
This is for the Honda service.
No Honda does not wash my wife's car and if they offered it, I will definitly turn it down.
I am a big fan of the Zaino products and that's all I use on both cars along with the 100% cotton towels that are made in the USA.
My Acura service department gave me a compliment on the up keep of my car-they know I don't need their free car washes.
As for 7500 miles service I totally forgot how much I laid out- the 15000 service is due in about two months and the cost is around $330.00.
I know I can else where and pay less, but what the heck- I have a few dollars to waste.:)
There is a product he sells (z5) that helps to reduce whatever swirl marks you already have.
But the real prevention of swirl marks are the towels you use- THEY HAVE TO 100% COTTON MADE IN THE USA.
I use to be a die hearted fan of Meguairs untill I saw a picture of the Zaino product results on a poster's car here on Edmunds-I was taken aback.
I tried it and honestly I will never stop using it-its kind of pricey but I will survive.
You can go the Key Word section and type zaino and you will see numerous post of what I am talking about.
Good Luck.
Although, after reading billyperks post about Zaino and USA-made cotton towels, I may never let any Acura dealer near my TSX again ;-). LOL!
Johnny
Okay-go ahead and use the MADE IN PAKISTAN AND INDIA TOWELS and watch the swirl marks develop on your car.
I was using those towels untill I got introduced to the USA made 100%-other brands are mixed with nylon and polyester- hence scrathing of the paint.
I can prove this because my TLS has minor swirls that were repaired by the Z-5- I was using the polyester and nylon mix towels.
Trust me on this- I was skeptical at first but after trying it I became a loyalist.
BTW, what color is your TL?