Acura TL vs Honda Accord

bmwm3

But the EX does have dual-zone automatic climate control. It also has a folding rear seat back for more trunk space. Other differences include limited exterior/interior color combinations. You can't get a black accord with a black interior for example...

bmwm3

I own an older BMW M3 and I love it. However, I just test drove the 2004 Acura TL and it is mighty impressive. The first thing I noticed is that the transmission isn't silky smooth as the M3. Neither is the quality of the exterior (looks too much like Honda) and interior (cheap two-tone silver on black) The DVD navigation system is gorgeous! I was also dissappointed that the TL didn't have split-folding rear seats. But the biggest problem was that the dealership can't deliver any for a few months whereas Honda can deliver immediately. I like the interior of the EX V6 better. Noone mentioned the transmission differences between the EX V6 and the TL - maybe because most are looking at manual trans??. The TL has a sequential fly-by-wire transmission whereas the EX has a standard automatic. I also don't like the optional faux wood finishes in the interior. Look at BMW for what it should look like. But, I must say that I am serious looking at the EX-V6 now. I never ever thought I would look at such a car but it's a great value. Too bad they don't have AWD because that would clinch it. They should AWD in the Acura and FWD in the Honda models. The new 2005 RL will SH-AWD. They should do the same for the TL (perhaps even a more limited version of AWD but at a better price point.)

95gt

Did you have an auto M3?

The stick in the TL felt much nicer than the 97 M3 I had. Both are good transmissions but i think the TL was a little more solid feeling.

I also think the interior is nicer in the TL. Bimmer was a little spartan for my taste. Felt a little more solid than the TL but i would never call the TL cheap feeling/looking.

Guess it shows how much is personal opinion.

hals120

I've owned accords and have been very pleased with them. However, I just bought a TL. Why? The TL has 6 speed manual, more horsepower, better handling, and a better looking interior. And I almost forgot - while the current Accord is a tight, well built, responsive car, it is - sadly - butt ugly.

igiban

Glad they put/price the butt right!

emdoc

Just sold my Audi A6 2.7 quattro and am considering 3 automobiles - 2 are somewhat similar. Current choices are the Accord V6 6 speed coupe, TL with 6 speed and the BMW M3. How are the first 2 in terms of reliability, durability and snow traction? Do they require snow tires in the winter? I am physician and must be able to drive regardless of weather which is not too bad in central Indiana (if they plowed). Any other recommendations/suggestions as I will probably drive them this weekend and purchase/lease early next week. Truthfully, the M3 is a purely emotion and probably foolhardy consideration. Thanks for your time and responses.

danny1878

For snow traction, AWD is better than FWD and FWD is better than RWD.

For reliability, durability Honda/Acura is better than BMW in general.

For Power/brand/prestige, M3 > TL > Accord V6

The ideal car IMO would be An M3 with AWD and Honda/Acura's reliability/durability and the price of an accord (which is quite impossible).

emdoc

Thanks - I also am looking for such a combination of attributes as your ideal car. I remember reading in a Car and Driver article that a FWD vehicle with snow tires was superior to an AWD on all-season radials. I will admit that even with only all-seasons, my audi was/is unstoppable. Wish Acura made the new RL now and with a 6 speed manual for the mid-30's. I know, it's a wish.

rengleka

I am from the Pittsburgh region and will be moving to the Cleveland area. So I am willing to get a car from whichever area has the better price. I am looking at an Honda Ex w/ Navi coupe. I was quoted a price of around 26,000. I was quoted a price of a TL w/out navi at 31,995 but they said they had some room to play. They said they couldn't come down on the Tl navi at 33,995. I like the look of the TL but can get the cheaper costing accord with navi (something i kinda wanted) at alot less? Then if I decide on the TL the navi is just a little more so I keep running around in circles. Any thoughts on those prices or advice would be appreciated. Thanks

bhubb

Anyone know if the 04 TL and 03 Accord EX 6 cyl have the same transmission?
My Accord w/60K on it just blew the transmission. After it's fixed (thank God for extended warranties) I will more than likley sell it. I was really interested in the TL, but I drive a lot of miles (40K per year) and I don't want a repeat of this problem. I must say I am dissapointed, I thought my Honda would last at least 120K!
Thanks.

atlantabenny

I couldn't get straightforward info (like specific transmission part numbers) on your question, which myself I'm interested to have answered, by perusing a Honda-Acura enthusiast forum.

However based on enthusiasts' educated guesses on the matter, it appears that

1) Engine torque/loaded weight/tranny matching is the general area of the problem. Honda's 4-cyl trannies, for one, dont' fail as much as the 6-cyl versions even if 4-cyl models comprise the bulk of Honda vehicle sales

2) Honda-Acura, for economies of scale, uses the same basic transmission design but upgrades torque-affected components as necessary. "Clutch packs" surfaces as such a component. Supporting this theory is that when Honda-Acura extended tranny warranties, it covered the 6th gen Accord, previous gen Acura TL, and current gen Odyssey (not sure of Pilot)

Tranny failures in the 7th gen Accord, 1.5 years on the road todate, are beginning to occur if forums are to be believed.

Back to your question, it's likely that the 04 TL has the latest tranny upgrade, what with 238 lbs-ft torque and 270 hp, but IMO "transmission peace of mind" can only be had after being one year in the marketplace.

What I'd do in your position is to wait it out for that period. Meantime I'd sell the 03 Accord to hedge against further mileage depreciation and get a good, used vehicle past its major depreciation curve for transportation until the 04 TL proves itself reliable.

hals120

Back when I owned a 1985 Accord, my clutch went out at 50,000. I thought that to be unusually early, and I asked my mechanic about it. He told me that the clutch disc in the 85 Accord was the same size as the clutch disc in earlier Accords, and when you considered how the 85 model was heavier than its predecessors, it was no surprise the clutch didn't last as along.

carcar

Hello,
   I've posted in other boards my dillema, with little to no response. I live in an area with an Acura dealer an hour and a half away, a honda dealer 40 minutes away, and a lexus dealer an hour away. I'm looking at the Lexus ES330, Acura TL, and Accord EX-V6 NAV Sedan.
   I am totally confused on what to do!!! I like the Lexus overall, and it's affordable as a demo or with 10,000 miles on it, but I wanted a loaded one. The service is GREAT, and reliability/resale value is also exceptional. But it's not exciting!! ! It drives like a family sedan.
   The Acura I have not driven yet, since I only get to the city where the dealer is once a month. I LOVE the styling, it grows on me everyday, and all of the standard features are GREAT! The service there is also top notch.
   Now, the Accord EX-V6 NAV Sedan was my first choice. We thought we'd get it when we're ready to buy in Jan/Feb 05, but it would really be nice to step it up and enter the near-luxury class, for prestige, service, and features. The EX-V6 is arguably the BEST value, but IMO the styling is bland, the leather is EXTREMELY cheap feeling/looking, and the service on my Odyssey has not been anything special at all: very Chrysler/Dodge dealer-like.
   PLEASE HELP ME OUT WITH THESE QUESTIONS I NEED ANSWERED:
   Can Acura's be serviced at Honda dealers (under warranty using Acura parts)?
   Should I get the Acura serviced at the Acura dealer 84 miles away? How often do you need routine maintanence?
   What would YOU do?
   We might have to get the Acura or Lexus pre-owned because of price, would it be worth it to pay the same or more for a used car (Acura/Lexus) as you would for a new car (Accord)?
   Are Acura dealer's really nice? Worth the 84 miles?

Any and all response is needed, but please help me out!!
Thank You!!!

lexusguy

Acura's sales and service are on a level above Honda, just like Lexus is to Toyota. Lexus however, comes to the house and picks up the car for service, and drops off a loaner. Acura doesnt do that. The ES and TL are VERY different cars. If your looking for fun, the ES isnt it. Have you considered a pre-owned GS? As a guy who usually buys luxury cars used, I can tell you, its pretty much always better to buy a luxury car slightly used. Let it take the depreciation hit, and then buy. If you're looking for a sporty Lexus, try on a '01 GS430.

kennyg5

If you are into softer rides and do not want to spring the extra money for a brand new loaded ES 330 (at least $34k), get the loaded Camry instead ($27k). For me, I always prefer buying a brand new car than a certified pre-owned, because I don't know who last drove the car and I like the new car feel and smell. If you don't mind the "road feel" of the Accord, which has great value, get a loaded one at less than $26k. A new TL w/o nav is at least $30k and with nav is at least $33.5k. IMHO, buy what you can afford because if you have to worry about making car payments, you won't enjoy the car :-)

kareshi

It seems that you're looking for luxury cars. The Accord isn't what you're looking for.. Lexus and Acura are supposed to sell as superior class. Personally, I would go for TL.

lexusguy

Its funny how many people love new car smell. That "smell" is drying glues and epoxies, and its toxic.

carcar

Thank you all for your responses! I've had an eye on the 2001-2002 Lexus GS, but gas mileage is a concern. Cost isn't so much an issue, but VALUE IS!
  I also like the new car smell, but the depreciation hit outweighs that extra feeling, so I will most definitely go used or CPO if I buy anything other than the Accord EX-V6.
  Lexusguy, do they really pick up your car? Does that cost extra? How much is servicing your Lexus ES compared to servicing a Camry (which I would frankly never buy for various reasons) or an Accord? Would they pick up my car even if I live an hour or so away?
  Thanks

mdhauke

It all depends on the specific dealers. Most Lexus dealers don't offer to pick up your car and leave a loaner for service, however they will give you a loaner when your car is getting serviced, as most Acura dealers will.

lexusguy

My dealer is Rahal Lexus in Carlisle, PA. I live about 50 minutes away in southern York, and they come to the house. They've said that beyond like an hour and a half, they wont do it. My mother's ES330 is from Lexus of Philadelphia, and they come to her house in the burbs and get hers.

carcar

I'm going to be in the market in Feb/Mar of 2005 and I've pretty much decided now on the ES/GS/RX Lexus. I really want to go with Lexus. I've heard great things about their dealers and product, and I'm REALLY excited about the Mark Levinson systems they offer.
 For the ES, I think I'm going to go for a CPO, 1 Year old with like 15,000-20,000 miles on it so I don't take the initial deprec. hit. What should I expect to pay for a fully loaded (minus chrome wheels) 2004 ES330 in 2005? I really hope its under $30,000, or else I'll just get an Accord Hybrid that's coming out. I just can't see spending more than 30 grand on a car! I guess it's just the frugile side of me.
 Is Lexus service costly? Is the pickup/dropoff free?

Thanks!

lexusguy

You really cant go wrong with a Lexus. JD has rated sales, service, and reliability at #1 for years and years, and its hard to argue with that. It looks like a very slightly used '04 ES330 can currently be had for $30 and under, so I dont think you'll have a problem with an '04 in '05. The Mark Levinson systems are out of this world. I use a No. 32 pre-amp and No. 390S CD player at home (connected to Parasound JC1 monoblocks and Dynaudio Confidence C4s) and compared to ML, the other jokers Bose, Alpine, Boston, Infinity, and whatever other brands are used in the audio world dont even come within a country mile. Not to mention the fact that Amar Bose has a Phd in liar.

slawenda

This is beginning to sound like a Lexus board.

fedlawman

In my opinion, Mark Levinson's most impressive accomplishment was marrying "Wonder Woman."

Dynamic range? S/N ratio? Throw it all out the window. How much better can the Mark Levinson system sound when it has to overcome 70 dB worth of wind, engine, and tire noise? If 85 dB is the "continuous exposure" threshold for hearing loss, that means you're either listening to music with a dynamic range of only 15 dB (pop music), or not hearing 2/3rds of what you're listening to (jazz, classical, etc.).

Also, how does a car audio system recreate an accurate soundfield when you have 12+ speakers surrounding you from less than 2 feet distance, and all pumping out only 2 channels worth of music? (do you listen to music at home by pointing the left and right speakers towards each other and then sitting directly between them?).

I believe if you want to enjoy the "best" mobile audio listening experience right now, you need to go with the Acura TL or one of Volvo's pro-logic systems.

bodble2

I confess I love the new car smell, so much so that I've forbidden my son to fart in my new TL (let's see how long that lasts!).

BTW, I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but the TL has a more intense new car smell than any other Honda in recent memory. Of course, nothing beats the leather smell in a new Volvo!

lexusguy

Thats why ML chose Lexus, you want a REALLY quiet car. Since when is 85db hearing loss threshold? THX reference level is WAY above 85db. "only 2 channels"? I guess you're not much of an audiophile. Anyone who REALLY cares about music doesnt own any DVD-As or SACDs, I can gaurantee you that. Vinyl only comes in stereo. Lexus cars dont use 12 speakers anyway. BMW and M-B and the "geniuses" at Bose and HK go by the "more = better" approach. ML spent thousands of hours in listening tests, and positioned the right speakers in exactly the right positions in all of the cars. The amps and processor are also EXTREMELY high quality, way above the ELS\Panasonic Acura system and no-name Volvo system. (BTW, pro-logic is a decades old technology that was absolutely NOT designed with music in mind.)

kahunah

You're ignoring the most important point about DVD audio technology -- 500 times better sound resolution than CD. And, the true 3D surround sound experience makes 2-channel stereo listening sound like Edison's gramophone.

Do yourself a favor. Sit in a TL and listen to the Eagles "Hotel California" on DVD. I guarantee you'll change your tune...fast.

fedlawman

""only 2 channels"? I guess you're not much of an audiophile."

Sorry, you can't be much of an audiophile either if you believe an automobile can recreate a two-channel, high fidelity experience at 70 MPH. Does the Lexus Mark Levinson system have only two, forward-facing speakers? How about a trunk mounted, remote controlled, shock dampened vinyl record player? What about a tube amplifier?

"Anyone who REALLY cares about music doesnt own any DVD-As or SACDs, I can gaurantee you that. Vinyl only comes in stereo."

Most "audiophiles" have changed their tune (no pun intended) about high resolution, multi-channel digital recording. Sure, some die-hards are still clinging to their half-speed mastered MFSL albums...but most experts now agree that a pointy rock riding through a plastic groove is not the purest way to recreate music (which, by the way, was probably recorded and mixed in a multi-channel, digital format).

"ML spent thousands of hours in listening tests, and positioned the right speakers in exactly the right positions in all of the cars."

But I thought true audiophiles only listen to analog music through two speakers...

The Mark Levinson systems no doubt perform very well, and I'd love to be able to experience it during my daily commute. Unfortunately, your misguided opinion about the purity of vinyl records and two-channel music simply doesn't apply to automobiles.

lexusguy

I'm not saying that the ML systems are as good as a proper hifi stereo at home. That would be impossible. Just the wall treatments in my listening room would add hundreds of pounds to a car. Most audiophiles have not changed their tune though. The best of the best Genesis 1.1, Wilson X-1 Grand SLAMM, Nearfield Acoustics Pipedreams, and the like are all designed for classic two channel listening. I'm not sure where you get this 500 times better figure. CDs are 16bit, 44.1khz. In the real world, most current DVD-As and SACDs operate at around 18bit, 96khz. Thats not 500 times better. My Mark Levinson No. 390S CD player has a noise floor so low its unhearable, so DVD-A would make it slightly more unhearable. Humans cant process sounds below 20hz, or above 20khz, (and most people cant even get close to THOSE numbers) so the extra frequency range of DVD-A doesnt mean anything. If you think DVD-A sounds better than stereo, then you just havent heard REALLY good stereo. My two Confidence C4s fill the room with "3D" sound so good you can hear exactly where every single player was standing when they made the recording. I have plenty of friends with fancy multichannel home theaters, and they play me multchannel audio on their Sony SACD players and try to convince me how great it is. It's not.

fedlawman

You listen to CD's at home?

Heresy!

Seriously though, I just don't understand why you ever brought up home audio. Confidence C4's and Mark Levinson CD players are nice indeed - I'm sure all your friends are very impressed...

In a car, who cares?

lexusguy

Hey I didnt say I was a vinyl freak. Just that most "hardcore" guys that spend money on things like vibration cones and isolation plates dont have SACD players. For the most part the "revolutionary" new formats have been utter failures. As soon as somebody figures out how to rip 5.1 audio recordings to a format without any kind of copy protection like Ogg Vorbis, they're screwed. Eh, who am I kidding, they're already screwed.

My whole point, which I seem to have lost somewhere a long the way, is that the LS version of the ML system, CD only as it may be, is unmatched.

mburlesn

I am choosing between a Honda Accord EX V6 with Navi and an Acura TL with Navi. The dealer let me take the Honda for the day and while driving around I noticed some things that left a little to be desired from a Honda product.

The car I am driving has the rear-view mirror upgrade and I noticed that the driver side visor makes contact with the mirror when placed in the down position. This happened several times this afternoon and is quite annoying since I have to reset the mirror everytime. Does this only happen with the mirror upgrade or does standard mirror do this???

I also noticed that in order to adjust the AC fan you have to choose the AC button and switch to that screen on the navigation display and select your fan speed instead of having a simple switch on the dashboard. This may not seem like a big deal but when you first get into the car the navigation product can take up to a minute or so to get past all the legal disclaimers which leaves you sitting there with no airflow until it finishes. FYI, I live in Texas and it is already HOT here.

Are there other little issues hiding out there that I am not yet aware of? Please let me add that the missing key cylinder on the passenger side is of no consequence to me but these other items leave me with the feeling that there are some things Honda did not consider while designing. So far, I do not find these kinds of negative perks with the Acura but I am sure it has it's share.

Any thoughts and comments are appreciated.

PS If anyone is interested, I have worked the following deals after much deliberation over the past month or so (both are Automatic Transmission):

2004 Accord EX-V6 with Navi - $26,000 (includes very good money for my trade)

2004 Acura TL with Navi - $33,700 and OK money for my trade

bodble2

Actually I prefer as few key cylinders as possible. I guess there has to be at least one, in case the key fob remote is damaged, but any more than that would be redundant, IMO.

kennyg5

I agree with bodble. I never use the right door cylinder on any of my cars, and come to think about it, I never use the left one either. I always use my key fob ... it is easier and it turns the dome light on before I even get to the car.

Comparing the TL to the Accord is like comparing the ES 330 to the Camry. If money is not an issue and you don't mind spending more, go for the upscale version. You get a longer warranty, better fit and finish, more luxurious amenities and better dealer service, with the snob appeal to boot even when you don't care about prestige :-)

bobz

I drove the Honda EXV6 Coupe and liked it a lot, but my wife wanted a four door sedan. I hate the looks of of the Honda sedan and the TL was a nice compromise between what I wanted and what my wife wanted, even though it cost me about 8k more, since the Honda's are heavily discounted whereas the Acura's are not. The quality is high in both cars of course, but the TL is just about the nicest looking sedan around except for the Jag's. Plus Acura has a four year warranty and much more upscale dealerships, which is nice. I also like the fact that in the TL, I don't see myself coming and going like Honda cars. However, if you want the best value for the buck, the Accord is the way to go. The power difference is inconsequential.

lmacmil

What do you think? Similar prices, low mileage TL would almost have as much warranty left as new Accord. For me, regular TL or Type-S would have enough power. TL looks better than Accord sedan and I'm guessing is finished slightly better. I'm a little concerned about TL tranny problems I've read about.

madcow2

I have both cars.

Bought the EX V6 Navi for the wife and the TL for myself several months later (both 2004's).

Both excellent cars. I wouldn't have had any problem with the Honda except for the fact that my wife and I like the same color. It would have seemed strange having 2 identical cars in the garage.

For comparisons:

1. The EX's brakes are touchy.
2. The EX's rear seating is more comfortable.
3. The TL's climate control is terrible - loud and ineffective.
4. The TL does not come with protective molding strips on the doors!? - Those are extra...can you believe.
5. The TL's sound system is incredible.
6. Both are powerful and quick, but the TL has more balls.
7. The TL seems to get lousy gas milage.
8. The EX looks like a egg.
9. The TL has xenon headlamps - the ex has just halogens.
10. The EX has excellent cup holding features all over - the ones in the door hold bottles of water - very convenient.

Bottom line...The EX is a great value. The TL looks cool. Both are great cars.

atlantabenny

Since I drive both cars (son has TL and wife and I have the 03 EX-L and EX-V6 coupe respectively), I can share some 1st hand insights:

Performance: TL responds instantly to throttle input; Accord has lag. There's a strong, robust feel to the TL.

Handling and ride: Even

Interior quality and space: With the OEM aftermarket trim kit, the Accord is just as classy - and more contemporary than - the TL. Accord interior is larger and more comfortable on long trips. What the Accord lacks is seat memory but is only an issue if the car is shared, and other minor things like electric trunk opener.

Style and exclusivity: The TL hasn't joined the Jaguar club of timeless design and will therefore show its age as time goes on, more so than the Accord being 4 years earlier in launch date. Exclusive ? To an extent, but its age somewhat diminishes it imo.

Visibility: TL wins with its great low cowl.

My 2 cents: an 03 TL-S with 15k miles at $20k ($23k private party per Edmunds) will be a compelling buy.

lmacmil

Thanks Benny, that's exactly the kind of comparison I was looking for. If I go the Accord route, I will probably opt for the coupe also. The back end of the sedan just doesn't do it for me.

atlantabenny

Glad to be of help. If the 04 TL weren't such a radical departure, the previous gen TL would've been more desirable.

G35 sedan doesn't grab you ? 30k mile samples are now going for $23k.

Personally, when the G35 coupe's dash gets an upgrade a la Altima, I'll be looking.

Good luck.

jrock65

In general, there is about a $7500 difference in street price between a base TL ($31k) and an EX-V6 ($23.5k).

The Accord's sound system is surprisingly good for a 120W system.

lmacmil

Actually the G35 is also under consideration. We get a lot of snow in the winter to I'm biased towards FWD. Don't do the kind of driving that I would notice the handling diff between FWD and RWD. Local Mazda dealer has a nice G35 with only 20K miles and is asking $27K which is a little high. Has all the "necessities" like leather, sunroof, and CD changer. We have neither an Acura nor an Infiniti dealer in this town (100 miles away is closest) so used examples aren't too common. Two things holding me back: wife just got a new Highlander along with a hefty monthly payment and I have a very short commute so my Intrigue is perfectly adequate.

igiban

A few questions about your nice comparison as I am considering a TL

1. On TL rear seat less comfy than EX. Do you refer to the space/room (EX is larger) or the seat cushion/leather (I'd think TL is better)? Of course the middle rear seat on TL is too high to be seated but I guess that's not really your reason.

2. TL climate control loud and ineffective? First time I heard of that complaint. You meant air blowing too loud or even mechanical sound? Ineffective meaning it does not get to the desired temp in a hurry?

3. On MPG. What do you get out of TL? On spec/paper EX V6 is 21-30 and TL is 20-28. Are yours in line with them? Of course we know EX uses 87 only and TL recommends 91 octane.

mdhauke

The air conditioner on the TL is far from ineffective. I live in the south and I can get in the car after sitting in the sun all day and have the climate control cool the vehicle within a minute from a cold start.

washington2

I am trying to decide to keep my 2004 Ex Accord 4cyl or get a 2000 3.2 TL with Nav certifide. 48,000 miles on it Love the ride and power of the Acura TL. I need your opinions! feel free to email me at pwas77@yahoo.com or post it here. ASAP

blane

You just bought a 2000 Mercedes S430 with 51,00 miles on it last month. Now you want to trade the latest 7th generation Honda 2004 technology for a 2000 Acura with 48,000 miles on it? Is the Acura to replace the Mercedes, or is this a second car in the family?

I'd personally opt for the latest technology, combined with lower miles on the odometer.

washington2

This car is to replace the Accord which is for my daughter. Plus the Acura is cheaper for insurance purposes than the 2004 Accord. I thank you for replying.

qbrozen

if its for your daughter, than i say keep her in the 4-cylinder, lower-mile accord. no need for her to have more power.

would you get money back for the trade? or will you have to lay out more?

washington2

I would have to put out $400 more. Carmax would only give me $17000 for it in New condition Because they say they are selling the Accord EX 4dr for $19400 New.The Acura dealer offered a little more. Now I will be driving the Acura sometimes myself. She is just the primary driver on the insurance policy on this car.

rainmaker

Greetings; In the past two months I drove both the Accord & TL - both loaded with NAV/Leather, etc. Out the door price including 5% state sales tax was = Accord 24800.00 , TL =35,466.00.
at about 10k difference, I couldnt justify the xtra $for the TL, so Iam buying the Accord for cash, and putting a 10k payment on a new 4x4 Toyota Tacoma (full cost 24k). Now I will have the Accord for the work commute and a 4x4 for the weekends. Both the Accord & TL are great cars. I have two Hondas now -one with 280k miles on it, and th other with 100k miles. In sum, Hondas are bullet proof.