And these guys (most are clients) are not just buying Accords, TL, ES, etc. They are driving BMW 5-series, MB E-class, etc.
You can't put a $$ limit on when a car becomes more than just an appliance. These guys that I'm referring to have lots of bucks. To them their cars are, if not appliances, at least just ornaments to make them look good. But I doubt they have any more emotional attachment to their cars than they would their fur coats, or jewellery. In fact, one of them specifically told me he doesn't care about his cars and never babies them. (At last count, I think this guy had a Porsche 911, Porsche Boxster, a ML-class and a BMW in his family).
I just purchased an '04 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L (4 cyl.) I test drove the Acura TL, and I could afford it. I won't argue that the TL isn't a better car, but it wasn't worth the extra money to me. Let's not forget that the Honda runs on regular gas. Honda maintenance I bet is less expensive as well. As for the engine, I have tremendous acceleration with my 4 cylinder VTEC engine. I merge into traffic from a stop with no problems. (The Accord Sedan may be different. Never drove it.) I'm sure the Accord V6 has more pep (the Acura did), but how much pep does one need? I get better mileage with the four as well.
In the end, we're splitting hairs, (and a lot of money.) They're both fine cars.
You seem to be a highly atypical car buyer. Normally one would not compare a 160hp car with a 270hp one. You say that you could afford the TL, but I don't think you're being truthful with yourself or with us. If milleage and cost of gas is that important to you, you must be more cost-consious than you admit to be. The cost of gas has never entered my decision to buy the TL and I've NEVER seen it brought up on any TL discussion board.
Yes, majority of people who buy the TL care about the extra pep - a LOT of extra pep. And, no, you can never have enough pep. Why do you think they have 400-500hp sports cars???
"The cost of gas has never entered my decision to buy the TL"
The consideration of the cost of gas enters into every car purchase. After analysis, I may decide to "fugitaboutit" or not. There are a lot of reasons why people buy less expensive, less equipped models that a "premium" brand. One of which is the diminishing return one gets for their money. Yeah a TL may beat the Accord 4-banger in straight line. But according to davidm it's not $10K better. He is not atypical from what I see. I could have afforded an M3 as well, but at the time I didn't believe the M3 was $23K better than what I ended up with.
For people who don't put on a lot of miles, cost of gas may never be a consideration. I only put on about 10,000 miles a year, and I NEVER factor in gas consumption/cost in my car-buying decision. Afterall, if I have to worry about cost of gas, maybe I shouldn't be thinking about buying the damn car!
I should have added in general I believe most people from Prius owners who buy the Prius due to gas mileage, to Hummer owners who have to pay $60 for a fill-up, most everybody considers gas cost. You may decide your vehicle is worth the gas cost or not, but most people I know look at that epa label and do a quick estimate.
is not really a serious comparison for the TL. I thought we were comparing the v6 Accord, not the v4, to the TL.
Not trying to beat up on the v4 Accord, b/c it's a good car, but it is a LOT more difficult to go into merge lanes or the left lane in a v4 Accord.
This is not a pure economy comparo. I think the consensus of a lot of people was that the Accord v-6 gives you a nice blend of economy and performance, while the TL gives you a nice blend of luxury and performance and economy, so the whole purpose of the comparo was whether the extra power and luxury of the TL made it a worthwhile upgrade over the v6 Accord.
The v4 Accord just gives you economy, it's nowhere in the ballpark as far as power or luxury. Can you even get leather in a v4 Accord?
I can't speak for everyone, but I personally never look at the damn EPA label (Transport Canada in my case), much less do a calculation! In fact, Transport Canada doesn't even list mpg. They list litre consumed per 100 KM, or something like that. Who has time to convert to mpg.
Truth is, if I'm buying a sedan such as the TL, I know it ain't going to get 40 mpg, nor will it get 10 mpg. And anything in between won't make a big enough dent in the wallet. So who cares! And if I were in the market for a Hummer, I will KNOW ahead of time it will get horrendous gas mileage and my gas bill will double or maybe triple. But that's a given, so again why bother reading the EPA label. Is it going tell you something you don't already know?!
And if you're a travelling salesman who drives 75,000 miles per year and gas cost is going to be a factor in your bottomline --- stay away from the freakin' Hummers and Suburbans!
First, I have a 4 cylinder EX-L, so I have leather heated seats, dual climate control, AM/FM/XM, sun/moon roof, side curtain airbags and so forth, so a lot of the luxury features I'm getting. If I was in a LX or DX model, I'd probably feel differently. As for the power, I live in the city, and I merge in city and highway traffic all the time. Never had a problem. Never hesitate to make a move What else does one need for acceleration?
I liked the TL. How can't you? For that matter, I test drove a BMW 330 as well. I was waiting for that out of body experience with these cars that said to me this would be worth an additional $20,000. I didn't feel it.
As for the gas mileage and such, its just my New England frugality coming through. Why spend extra money for something you don't value, which gets back to kdshapiro's point: its about value.
I think the 04 TL is worth the extra $$ when compared with the 04 EX V-6 Accord, especially when you get a longer warranty and better dealer service with the former, in addition to the higher performance and luxury amenities. On the other hand, the I35 and the 03 Maxima are almost identical cars, and the extra $$ for the I35 does not seem worth it.
I have an Accord and also the new TL. I have always loved the Accord because of its value, gas mileage and style. I had 6 cars before (3 Accord, 1 Civic, 2 Toyota. I did not choose the new accord because the back of the car is ugly. Here are my opinions that apply to me (only) 1. About gas mileage I think it depends on how you r gonna use the car. My accord will be used for everyday activity, and the new TL will be used for weekend/ pleasure. 2. About the extra $$$, I could not find a car that has all Tl's features with the same value/ class as the TL. I click the new TL competiting vehicles which are BMW330, Infinity G35, lexus ES 330 and a cadillac CTS in Edmunds and add all the features that TL has and found the $$$ way out too high. Apparently Accord is not in the same league as the TL 3. The back of the new Accord to me is ugly 4. Horsepower eventhough I am not crazy about it but it outrun almost any car in its league (especially my friend's Mustang GT 2002) 5. Money is always the main concern to me but given the fact that TL is an entry level luxury car, so I still look for the best (style, feature, comfort and also value). 6. Acura resale prices is also very good 7. I could choose the 2003 TL but the new TL's design is better and unique. I parked the car next to a BMW 330 but people kept noticing the TL and even talked about it. I was smoking in front of a restaurant so they didn't know. 8. TL'04 sound system is awesome, 225 watts best in it's league, 8 speaker, CD,DVD-A playable (the first car ever equipped with it). 9. Heated outside mirror, xenon light, heated seat, leather seats, memory seat, side mirror automatically pivot to help you reverse/park the car, bluetooth, xm radio, 6 cd changer in dashboard, rearview mirror darken automatically to reduce glare, trip computer, and a lot more. I really could not find any better car than this (with the same value)
But If I wanted to replace my current accord and still use it for everyday activity, I will definitely buy an Accord or Camry. I still love them.
I have looked at both the Accord and the TL. I think the Accord competes with the TL very well. In fact, I believe it is the better buy and maybe the better car. The TL has more of a refined look, but the Accord's new look is pretty classy in its own right. And, the Accord has a bigger back seat. 36 inches of leg room, compared to 34.9 for the TL, which is a big difference.
I am not sure the price differential justifies the jump from an Accord to an Acura. You are basically paying $8000 more for the Acura name plate. I think a loaded Accord with navigation is the way to go if you are looking at these two cars. The Acura brand name does not deliver that much more of a prestige factor then Honda. There is really not enough difference between the two cars. Why?? Because remember, they are both FWD cars! Yes, that does make a difference. Every other prestige type car, with the exception of the Lexus ES330 (which is NOT marketed as a sports Sedan like the TL) has RWD. Sports Sedan = RWD.
So given those facts, the Accord is the way to go over the Acura.
I have a few "choice" words for you bmwdoug, but I figure you're just posting this garbage to start a flamewar. By your standards Chevy Montecarlo is the best car, since it has the largest rear leg room. My suggestion is to get some clue and do a real comparison, if you insist that these cars are comparable.
"I have a few "choice" words for you bmwdoug, but I figure you're just posting this garbage to start a flamewar."
He is not the only one who things that way. Friend was looking at both vehicles as well. Asked my opinion. I suggested seriously considering the Honda. Said to evaluate if the "premium" was worth the money. Friend went back to evaluate and decided it wasn't. Got the loaded Accord and couldn't be happier. And, is using the $7K for something else. IMHO the newer Accord is better looking anyway.
The "value" equation is not the same for everyone. Suggesting bmwdoug is flaming is pretty disingenious. Not recognizing that other people see the landscape very differently from your point of view.
The same holds when comparing other cars as well. Saying the TL is better than the 330i, eg, because it's bigger or has a DVD audio system ignores a fundamental reason why BMW is able to sell a lot of cars and the 325 still flies off the dealers shelves.
I am typing this during a commerical of the Eagle/Panther game. Great game! Kdshapiro is right on the money!! Again, I stated facts. RWD makes a sports sedan. If it is not RWD it is not a sports sedan. The TL is not RWD; therefore, it is not a sports sedan, no matter how much people would like it to be.
Now, I am not saying that it is not a nice car. In fact, it is a very nice car. I just think since it is FWD, it is not worth $8000 more than a loaded Accord with navigation, which I think looks better then the TL and has more room. Again, if it had RWD, then it would be a different story.
To replace my 2000 Saab 9-5 SE coming off lease. Drove the TL, drove an ES330, drove another Saab 9-5. I dont think you can touch the Accord for the value proposition, particularly with the discounts (they're selling near invoice) that they are offering. Nothing against the TL by any means (congratulations to those that have them) -- I just couldn't justify the extra $$$ given the similarities between the cars.
You ever notice that every person that says "Hands down the Accord is a better value", cites an $8000 price difference, while every person that says "Hands down the TL is worth the money", cites a $3000 price difference?
In the past decade, BMW has produced thousands of RWD vehicles that were 2nd tier at best to a Nissan Maxima. These cars were NEVER "sports sedans" arguably they were "sporty sedans".
The Accord V6 is ALOT more sedan than sporty, while the TL is ALOT more luxury than sport (but that's due to an excess of luxury NOT a dearth of sportiness). The Accord appearance is starting to grow on me while the TL looks less impressive every time I see it.
And IMHO, anyone that doesn't care about gas mileage is a tool.
NOT!! (He may be on something, but it ain't the money)
If value is the primary consideration, Accord will always always always always win over the TL. Hell, it will win over just about any other car except for garbage from the American Big 3 and upstart Korean brands.
KD recommending the Accord to friends is just a safe cop-out on his part. He will never go wrong, because his friends can never say they didn't get good value for their money. But there's the "value" word again.
I'm not bashing the Accord. I love our Accord. I said before, I think every family should have one, just like they should have a fridge, and a washer and dryer, etc. It is just so damn practical, useful and therefore, indispensible.
You've seen that every argument for the Accord over the TL starts and ends with words to the effect that the extra $$ for the TL cannot be justified. Well, of course not. How do you quantify intangibles? How much is better styling worth? How much is it worth to be proud of your TL when you pick up your client in one vs. in an Accord that 400,000 others own. And some of those 400,000 are low-line models with hubcaps vs. the fact that every TL is essentially loaded! How much is the convenience of tilt-down side mirrors worth? Or memory seats?
How about try justifying quantitatively the difference between a TL and a MB E-class, or BMW 5-series. You'll come up tens of thousands short. So should every E-class or 5-series owner have bought a TL instead?
C'mon people, you can't do a comparison or recommendation based only on one factor.
Your post makes the case for Kdshapiro. If it is worth paying an extra $8000 for a TL for its "styling and prestige" compared to an Accord; then surely, it is worth paying an extra $8,000 for a BWM 3 series, which has more prestige, and is a true sports sedan with RWD. Futhermore, it is known for being one of the best sports sedans ever built.
If it is not worth it to go for the BWW, then a loaded Accord is the way to go compared to a TL, since both are FWD. And, in my humble opinion, the Accord acutally looks better.
Bobble2 is right, there are a lot of factor to compare cars. CR ranked TL #1 over 330i (4 years defending champion) could it be only because of value? Does CR get money from ACURA? I am still looking for a new car to replace my old accord but not now. What will still be my options? New Accord, BMW or Lexus. I dont doubt these car are fantastic but everybody is entitled to their own opinions. Btw you cant load all features to an accord because those features are not available for accord due to its market segment. Ask a Honda dealer to add 5.1 dvd-a they will say they can't (besides BMW and lexus will add this feature not until 2006). Ask them to add 270 hp and many more. Dont forget I own an accord too. besides this is not a viable comparo due to value only. But I respect all opinions.
Do you think TL's interior is more luxurious than EX with leather/wood, as one might expect? I sat in both today and I honestly think that Accord's more pleasing with a higher quality feel inside. That's just one factor, but on that one along, I'd give it to Accord. It seems that TL's step up from Accord does not quite include interior upgrade.
Maybe they dont discuss about interior to each other or maybe Consumer report didn't look at it like you do, sorry. And maybe if you tried to sit in a Civic you will get more pleasant feeling. Anyway there is nothin wrong with an Accord, it is not bad at all for gas mileage or value, Civic is even better, on that factor alone I would suggest people to buy a civic. And of course you are right about the pleasant feeling of the car, it's an Accord, family sedan. It is a Honda. No doubt about that. I have driven accord since 1991, been there, done that and still doin it lol. The same like any other car that has a pleasant family-sedan feeling. With TL it's just different and I just cant explain it to you.
But it again goes back to value. Maybe the name Acura, the DVD audio, nicer interior and other stuff are worth the $7K over the Accord, to some. CR who listed the TL over the BMW even says the Accord for $7,000 less is ALMOST AS GOOD. Note the "almost as good" part. $7K to get something slightly better, sounds like the TL vs 330i discussion? (and by whose yardstick is the TRUTH of the word better?) Right? DOES THAT MEAN THE BMW SHOULD HAVE BEEN THIRD?
If you could please refer us to an AUTHORITIVE source for the definition of "sport sedan" other than your own, that equates the term with rear wheel drive, I'd appreciate it.
It's the advertiser's prerogative to make up words like "sport sedan", "sport coupe", "luxury sport sedan", "sporty car", "sport truck" etc. They have to make them sound good in order to sell vehicles.
"Sport sedan" is not a definition involving which wheels do the driving, per se., it is just advertising lingo.
But it never will be a sports sedan. To say this car is in the same class as an SL55AMG that can deliver over 500lbs/torque to the rear wheels in the mid-2000rpms is ludicrous. A FWD will never be a sports sedan, nice sporty sedan, I agree, but never a sports sedan.
It may make one feel better to classify your vehicle in the same class as one costing $100K more, but the proof is in the pudding as they say.
For every EX-V6 Accord buyer or would be buyer out there, if the TL were to cost only $2k to $3k more than the Accord, I am sure many, if not all, will gladly choose the TL, because the TL is a more luxurious and technologically advanced sporty sedan, not to mention better dealer service and a longer warranty. The bottomline is -- how much are you willing to spend or can afford.
Kenny is right, there is always a car best for someone's need. CR didnt rank Accord #2 but BMW330i. If they could rank accord #2 I think they would but they dont think that way. Nobody is saying Accord is bad nor 330i is not a great car. They considered many elements, thats why if value is the main factor, Accord will be ranked #1 or even civic and hyundai. And if you look at BMW530 features, you might find some similarity in features too (even more on TL), but 530 is not the same league as TL and CR didnt rank 530i or 745i #1. Its just different and I just cant explain you that. Would I pay more $ to get a 540, yes i would (4l engine bla bla bla). Would someone compare Toyota Camry with Lexus gs 420?. I feel a litle bit funny tho, I dont receive the TL awards lol
It would be much easier to choose the Accord if the exterior styling was more attractive. Some people are buying the TL based on looks or the lack of looks on the Accord even though the Accord "does the job."
My accord send me to work for 3 years until I can afford to buy a TL. Its an irony that my accord earned the hard $ and still is while I use the TL on weekend just for pleasure. about RWD of FWD, CR still compared BMW330i VS TL'04. TL still won and its a fact. $8k more or less depends, $8k more for work no, $8k more for pleasure yes.
Here is the point: You can't compare a TL to a BMW 330i. One, the TL, is a "sporty sedan", not a sports sedan, because it has FWD. The other is a "sports sedan" because it has RWD. Like it or not, RWD is required for a car to have a true "sport" performance. Answer the question, "why won't Acura make the TL RWD? Answer: because then the TL would cost the same as the 330i.
Now, you can compare an Accord to a TL because both are FWD cars. And, both are "sporty sedans". Now, you can decide if the $8,000 extra for the TL is worth it. To me it is not, because I think the Accord looks better and offers the same features with the exception of DVD audio, which is a few years off from being the norm, if ever. Thus, it is not worth an extra $8,000 for another FWD car.
I'd bet you even if Acura made a RWD TL, it would not cost the same as the 330. And conversely, if BMW made a FWD 330, they wouldn't/couldn't bring the price down to match the TL's.
I won't comment on your liking the styling of the Accord since styling is subjective and you are entitled to your preferences. But you CANNOT say that the Accord has the same features as the TL except for the DVD-A. What about the extra power, the xenon, the memory seats, the hands-free phone system, the auto-dimming mirror, the reverse-tilt mirrors, the 17" alloys, and on and on?
"What about the extra power, the xenon, the memory seats, the hands-free phone system, the auto-dimming mirror, the reverse-tilt mirrors, the 17" alloys, and on and on?"
One has to decide if the "and on and on", is worth the extra money. They are both fine cars, not getting down on either.
I believe bmwdoug and kdshapiro are one and the same person. They use (or he uses) two different names hoping and trying to show us that there are more people thinking like them (him) and agreeing with their (his) philosophy :-)
Back to the topic -- I think if one cannot afford the TL, then buy the Accord, not because both cars are the same or comparable, but because the latter is cheaper and gives you more VALUE.
Nobody said TL is a sport car. Consumer report didnt say TL rank #1 over BMW330i because its a sport car. Sport car dont have 4 doors, like the boxster, nissan350z. and dont forget my bicycle is a rwd, 6 speed. RWD without sufficient hp is not worth 8k more let alone the uninstallable features, fwd outrun RWD well thats huge TL not comparable to #2 winner BMW330i surely only on bmwdoug_report.com. and of course it's not a BMW. what can I say doug. I wonder what kahunah thinks? lol
Secondly, if the Acura was rear wheel drive he will still find some thing negative to say.
For those of you who keep insisting that the Accord is on par or equal to the TL, PLEASE STOP.
The TL is in different league-I have said this in one of many posts here on Edmunds, my wife has the 04 Accord and I have the 03 TLS-I drive them both and my 03 TLS just feels BETTER.
I can't explain it but it just feels better.
And talk about looks-the 04 TL by majority vote wins by a landslide.
So its your opinion that, if one can afford either a TL or a V-6 EX, one should get the TL? That's a fair and reasonable statement, but another way to interpret your last post is that you might be asserting that people who purchase the Accord really can't afford the TL, and they are using the value argument to hide behind the fact they cant afford the car. I doubt you mean that, but you may want to clarify.
"For those of you who keep insisting that the Accord is on par or equal to the TL, PLEASE STOP"
For those who are saying bmwdoug and I are the same person. PLEASE STOP. Seems to me there is a sore spot on this board. The fact the CR compared the cars, cast the TL as #1 and in the same breath says: "the Accord is almost as good as the TL for $7K less."
I too would be sore if a magazine comparing cars from the same company said a lower price car is almost as good as a higher price car. In other words. Accord + $7K <> Acura.
Nobody is saying these cars are identical, the question is the TL worth the $7K premium over the Accord. Some say yes, others say no. And since CR is often quoted, CR seems to think "no" as well.
So did ACURA TL, but couldn't rank it #2. Accord has always been a good car but this time is better ($28.8k). No doubt about it. No offense intended to any other car owner. All cars are good.
So its your opinion that, if one can afford either a TL or a V-6 EX, one should get the TL? That's a fair and reasonable statement, but another way to interpret your last post is that you might be asserting that people who purchase the Accord really can't afford the TL, and they are using the value argument to hide behind the fact they cant afford the car. I doubt you mean that, but you may want to clarify.
I read few of your posts and I can tell that you have no idea what are you talking about. How about AWD cars, they not a sports cars? As far as I know WRX sti will blow any BMW out of the water, maybe except M5 and M3. How about FWD Neon, will outperform any RWD 330.
"As far as I know WRX sti will blow any BMW out of the water, maybe except M5 and M3."
We could get into the whole dollar for the HP game. Just buy a used Civic, dump about $10g worth of mods into it and you have a car that can even beat a WRX and that's cheaper than a WRX. But so what? Do you think the WRX is even in the same league as the Accord for example. If all you are looking for is performance yep. You can get a $20K SRT4 for that. But if you want luxury with your performance the WRX/EVO is not for you. Add the luxury of a 3-series into the WRX and they'd have to charge 10gs more for the car. bmwdoug is correct. Most supersedans do not have FWD or AWD. Porsche is a different story with their engines in the back, but then there is the price tag relative to this thread.
Not the mention the fact the SRT-4 weighs 400 lbs less than the 330i. Put 400 lbs, plus luxury into an SRT-4 and then see if it's the value leader. Yes a go cart could outperform a 330i, but then again so what? Nobody would say the SRT-4 is balanced, what with torque steer and all.
The M3 is a 3-series with a modified suspension and engine. BMW must have done something right with this car, as the M3 is considered the gold standard. So if we consider the M3 as part of the 3-series, RWD rules.
Comments
You can't put a $$ limit on when a car becomes more than just an appliance. These guys that I'm referring to have lots of bucks. To them their cars are, if not appliances, at least just ornaments to make them look good. But I doubt they have any more emotional attachment to their cars than they would their fur coats, or jewellery. In fact, one of them specifically told me he doesn't care about his cars and never babies them. (At last count, I think this guy had a Porsche 911, Porsche Boxster, a ML-class and a BMW in his family).
Thank you. A very accurate statement. A super-car to me, may be an appliance to you. Who am I to say, how you feel about or treat your car?
Weren't you using a $$ limit?
Let's not forget that the Honda runs on regular gas. Honda maintenance I bet is less expensive as well. As for the engine, I have tremendous acceleration with my 4 cylinder VTEC engine. I merge into traffic from a stop with no problems. (The Accord Sedan may be different. Never drove it.) I'm sure the Accord V6 has more pep (the Acura did), but how much pep does one need? I get better mileage with the four as well.
In the end, we're splitting hairs, (and a lot of money.) They're both fine cars.
Yes, majority of people who buy the TL care about the extra pep - a LOT of extra pep. And, no, you can never have enough pep. Why do you think they have 400-500hp sports cars???
The consideration of the cost of gas enters into every car purchase. After analysis, I may decide to "fugitaboutit" or not. There are a lot of reasons why people buy less expensive, less equipped models that a "premium" brand. One of which is the diminishing return one gets for their money. Yeah a TL may beat the Accord 4-banger in straight line. But according to davidm it's not $10K better. He is not atypical from what I see. I could have afforded an M3 as well, but at the time I didn't believe the M3 was $23K better than what I ended up with.
Bottom line? It's a value thing.
For people who don't put on a lot of miles, cost of gas may never be a consideration. I only put on about 10,000 miles a year, and I NEVER factor in gas consumption/cost in my car-buying decision. Afterall, if I have to worry about cost of gas, maybe I shouldn't be thinking about buying the damn car!
I should have added in general I believe most people from Prius owners who buy the Prius due to gas mileage, to Hummer owners who have to pay $60 for a fill-up, most everybody considers gas cost. You may decide your vehicle is worth the gas cost or not, but most people I know look at that epa label and do a quick estimate.
Not trying to beat up on the v4 Accord, b/c it's a good car, but it is a LOT more difficult to go into merge lanes or the left lane in a v4 Accord.
This is not a pure economy comparo. I think the consensus of a lot of people was that the Accord v-6 gives you a nice blend of economy and performance, while the TL gives you a nice blend of luxury and performance and economy, so the whole purpose of the comparo was whether the extra power and luxury of the TL made it a worthwhile upgrade over the v6 Accord.
The v4 Accord just gives you economy, it's nowhere in the ballpark as far as power or luxury. Can you even get leather in a v4 Accord?
Truth is, if I'm buying a sedan such as the TL, I know it ain't going to get 40 mpg, nor will it get 10 mpg. And anything in between won't make a big enough dent in the wallet. So who cares! And if I were in the market for a Hummer, I will KNOW ahead of time it will get horrendous gas mileage and my gas bill will double or maybe triple. But that's a given, so again why bother reading the EPA label. Is it going tell you something you don't already know?!
And if you're a travelling salesman who drives 75,000 miles per year and gas cost is going to be a factor in your bottomline --- stay away from the freakin' Hummers and Suburbans!
Yep!
I liked the TL. How can't you? For that matter, I test drove a BMW 330 as well. I was waiting for that out of body experience with these cars that said to me this would be worth an additional $20,000. I didn't feel it.
As for the gas mileage and such, its just my New England frugality coming through. Why spend extra money for something you don't value, which gets back to kdshapiro's point: its about value.
1. About gas mileage I think it depends on how you r gonna use the car. My accord will be used for everyday activity, and the new TL will be used for weekend/ pleasure.
2. About the extra $$$, I could not find a car that has all Tl's features with the same value/ class as the TL. I click the new TL competiting vehicles which are BMW330, Infinity G35, lexus ES 330 and a cadillac CTS in Edmunds and add all the features that TL has and found the $$$ way out too high. Apparently Accord is not in the same league as the TL
3. The back of the new Accord to me is ugly
4. Horsepower eventhough I am not crazy about it but it outrun almost any car in its league (especially my friend's Mustang GT 2002)
5. Money is always the main concern to me but given the fact that TL is an entry level luxury car, so I still look for the best (style, feature, comfort and also value).
6. Acura resale prices is also very good
7. I could choose the 2003 TL but the new TL's design is better and unique. I parked the car next to a BMW 330 but people kept noticing the TL and even talked about it. I was smoking in front of a restaurant so they didn't know.
8. TL'04 sound system is awesome, 225 watts best in it's league, 8 speaker, CD,DVD-A playable (the first car ever equipped with it).
9. Heated outside mirror, xenon light, heated seat, leather seats, memory seat, side mirror automatically pivot to help you reverse/park the car, bluetooth, xm radio, 6 cd changer in dashboard, rearview mirror darken automatically to reduce glare, trip computer, and a lot more. I really could not find any better car than this (with the same value)
But If I wanted to replace my current accord and still use it for everyday activity, I will definitely buy an Accord or Camry. I still love them.
I am not sure the price differential justifies the jump from an Accord to an Acura. You are basically paying $8000 more for the Acura name plate. I think a loaded Accord with navigation is the way to go if you are looking at these two cars. The Acura brand name does not deliver that much more of a prestige factor then Honda. There is really not enough difference between the two cars. Why?? Because remember, they are both FWD cars! Yes, that does make a difference. Every other prestige type car, with the exception of the Lexus ES330 (which is NOT marketed as a sports Sedan like the TL) has RWD. Sports Sedan = RWD.
So given those facts, the Accord is the way to go over the Acura.
He is not the only one who things that way. Friend was looking at both vehicles as well. Asked my opinion. I suggested seriously considering the Honda. Said to evaluate if the "premium" was worth the money. Friend went back to evaluate and decided it wasn't. Got the loaded Accord and couldn't be happier. And, is using the $7K for something else. IMHO the newer Accord is better looking anyway.
The "value" equation is not the same for everyone. Suggesting bmwdoug is flaming is pretty disingenious. Not recognizing that other people see the landscape very differently from your point of view.
The same holds when comparing other cars as well. Saying the TL is better than the 330i, eg, because it's bigger or has a DVD audio system ignores a fundamental reason why BMW is able to sell a lot of cars and the 325 still flies off the dealers shelves.
Now, I am not saying that it is not a nice car. In fact, it is a very nice car. I just think since it is FWD, it is not worth $8000 more than a loaded Accord with navigation, which I think looks better then the TL and has more room. Again, if it had RWD, then it would be a different story.
In the past decade, BMW has produced thousands of RWD vehicles that were 2nd tier at best to a Nissan Maxima. These cars were NEVER "sports sedans" arguably they were "sporty sedans".
The Accord V6 is ALOT more sedan than sporty, while the TL is ALOT more luxury than sport (but that's due to an excess of luxury NOT a dearth of sportiness). The Accord appearance is starting to grow on me while the TL looks less impressive every time I see it.
And IMHO, anyone that doesn't care about gas mileage is a tool.
If value is the primary consideration, Accord will always always always always win over the TL. Hell, it will win over just about any other car except for garbage from the American Big 3 and upstart Korean brands.
KD recommending the Accord to friends is just a safe cop-out on his part. He will never go wrong, because his friends can never say they didn't get good value for their money. But there's the "value" word again.
I'm not bashing the Accord. I love our Accord. I said before, I think every family should have one, just like they should have a fridge, and a washer and dryer, etc. It is just so damn practical, useful and therefore, indispensible.
You've seen that every argument for the Accord over the TL starts and ends with words to the effect that the extra $$ for the TL cannot be justified. Well, of course not. How do you quantify intangibles? How much is better styling worth? How much is it worth to be proud of your TL when you pick up your client in one vs. in an Accord that 400,000 others own. And some of those 400,000 are low-line models with hubcaps vs. the fact that every TL is essentially loaded! How much is the convenience of tilt-down side mirrors worth? Or memory seats?
How about try justifying quantitatively the difference between a TL and a MB E-class, or BMW 5-series. You'll come up tens of thousands short. So should every E-class or 5-series owner have bought a TL instead?
C'mon people, you can't do a comparison or recommendation based only on one factor.
If it is not worth it to go for the BWW, then a loaded Accord is the way to go compared to a TL, since both are FWD. And, in my humble opinion, the Accord acutally looks better.
CR ranked TL #1 over 330i (4 years defending champion) could it be only because of value? Does CR get money from ACURA?
I am still looking for a new car to replace my old accord but not now. What will still be my options? New Accord, BMW or Lexus. I dont doubt these car are fantastic but everybody is entitled to their own opinions. Btw you cant load all features to an accord because those features are not available for accord due to its market segment. Ask a Honda dealer to add 5.1 dvd-a they will say they can't (besides BMW and lexus will add this feature not until 2006). Ask them to add 270 hp and many more. Dont forget I own an accord too. besides this is not a viable comparo due to value only. But I respect all opinions.
If you could please refer us to an AUTHORITIVE source for the definition of "sport sedan" other than your own, that equates the term with rear wheel drive, I'd appreciate it.
It's the advertiser's prerogative to make up words like "sport sedan", "sport coupe", "luxury sport sedan", "sporty car", "sport truck" etc. They have to make them sound good in order to sell vehicles.
"Sport sedan" is not a definition involving which wheels do the driving, per se., it is just advertising lingo.
It may make one feel better to classify your vehicle in the same class as one costing $100K more, but the proof is in the pudding as they say.
CR didnt rank Accord #2 but BMW330i. If they could rank accord #2 I think they would but they dont think that way. Nobody is saying Accord is bad nor 330i is not a great car. They considered many elements, thats why if value is the main factor, Accord will be ranked #1 or even civic and hyundai. And if you look at BMW530 features, you might find some similarity in features too (even more on TL), but 530 is not the same league as TL and CR didnt rank 530i or 745i #1. Its just different and I just cant explain you that. Would I pay more $ to get a 540, yes i would (4l engine bla bla bla). Would someone compare Toyota Camry with Lexus gs 420?. I feel a litle bit funny tho, I dont receive the TL awards lol
For some, definitely YES!
I would never say the TL is better than a 330 simply because it costs $8,000, or whatever amount, less.
No one said that.
Some people are buying the TL based on looks or the lack of looks on the Accord even though the Accord "does the job."
Now, you can compare an Accord to a TL because both are FWD cars. And, both are "sporty sedans". Now, you can decide if the $8,000 extra for the TL is worth it. To me it is not, because I think the Accord looks better and offers the same features with the exception of DVD audio, which is a few years off from being the norm, if ever. Thus, it is not worth an extra $8,000 for another FWD car.
I won't comment on your liking the styling of the Accord since styling is subjective and you are entitled to your preferences. But you CANNOT say that the Accord has the same features as the TL except for the DVD-A. What about the extra power, the xenon, the memory seats, the hands-free phone system, the auto-dimming mirror, the reverse-tilt mirrors, the 17" alloys, and on and on?
One has to decide if the "and on and on", is worth the extra money. They are both fine cars, not getting down on either.
Back to the topic -- I think if one cannot afford the TL, then buy the Accord, not because both cars are the same or comparable, but because the latter is cheaper and gives you more VALUE.
RWD without sufficient hp is not worth 8k more let alone the uninstallable features, fwd outrun RWD well thats huge
TL not comparable to #2 winner BMW330i surely only on bmwdoug_report.com. and of course it's not a BMW. what can I say doug. I wonder what kahunah thinks? lol
Back to the topic, "not a viable comparo" quoted
For those of you who keep insisting that the Accord is on par or equal to the TL, PLEASE STOP.
The TL is in different league-I have said this in one of many posts here on Edmunds, my wife has the 04 Accord and I have the 03 TLS-I drive them both and my 03 TLS just feels BETTER.
I can't explain it but it just feels better.
And talk about looks-the 04 TL by majority vote wins by a landslide.
For those who are saying bmwdoug and I are the same person. PLEASE STOP. Seems to me there is a sore spot on this board. The fact the CR compared the cars, cast the TL as #1 and in the same breath says: "the Accord is almost as good as the TL for $7K less."
I too would be sore if a magazine comparing cars from the same company said a lower price car is almost as good as a higher price car. In other words. Accord + $7K <> Acura.
Nobody is saying these cars are identical, the question is the TL worth the $7K premium over the Accord. Some say yes, others say no. And since CR is often quoted, CR seems to think "no" as well.
We could get into the whole dollar for the HP game. Just buy a used Civic, dump about $10g worth of mods into it and you have a car that can even beat a WRX and that's cheaper than a WRX. But so what? Do you think the WRX is even in the same league as the Accord for example. If all you are looking for is performance yep. You can get a $20K SRT4 for that. But if you want luxury with your performance the WRX/EVO is not for you. Add the luxury of a 3-series into the WRX and they'd have to charge 10gs more for the car. bmwdoug is correct. Most supersedans do not have FWD or AWD. Porsche is a different story with their engines in the back, but then there is the price tag relative to this thread.
Not the mention the fact the SRT-4 weighs 400 lbs less than the 330i. Put 400 lbs, plus luxury into an SRT-4 and then see if it's the value leader. Yes a go cart could outperform a 330i, but then again so what? Nobody would say the SRT-4 is balanced, what with torque steer and all.
The M3 is a 3-series with a modified suspension and engine. BMW must have done something right with this car, as the M3 is considered the gold standard. So if we consider the M3 as part of the 3-series, RWD rules.