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I paid a little more than $30K for the minivan with the assurance of Toyota quality and customer service, surely did not expect to be faced with such problem! Please advise on what I should do to have this problem corrected as the van has been sitting at the dealer since 12/30/01. Thanks in advance for any advice. Regards.
Due to a recent problem with my van's transmission problem I became a member of Town Hall, I saw some posts relating to this issue and find them to be very helpful. Can someone who is familiar with this problem advise on what I should do to solve our big problem? On 12/30/01, as we were driving back from our Christmas vacation visit to our parents in Southern California, our 2 yr. old Sienna 2000 XLE van with close to 34,000 miles broke down on us right in the middle of the highway. Luckily we were not involved in a car accident, but the incident (the loud noise, car jolting as if we were rear-ended, and breakdown in the middle of the highway) scared our 2 daughters. We had to tow it to the nearest Toyota dealer and was advised a day later that we need to replace our transmission and torque converter, totalling $5,400 parts and labor! They also said the Powertrain Warranty doesn't apply in this case unless we offer proof of transmission oil change at 30,000 miles. I am outraged! we did not expect this problem when we pay premium for the name, quality, dependability, customer service that Toyota supposedly had! I checked under the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration website and found that there are other Sienna 2000 owners having the same problem, in one case, the transmission was replaced twice!!
Please offer some advice on what I can do to solve this problem, our van has been sitting at this dealership since 12/30/01 and no work has been done on it yet. My husband takes really good care of our cars and we never had any problem like this before, at least not with Toyota cars.
He did 90% of the maintenance on his 1991 Celica and ran it pass 120K miles without any problems before selling it to another buyer. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
P.S. I would especially like to contact mmeskal and bamfordl !!!
Regards,
The van is still one of the best vehicle we have ever owned. Will keep you updated.
just want to say that unless you can provide them proof of changing your tranny fluid, you will have a tough time with the dealer. tranny issues are usually tough to deal with.
consult a lawyer before try going to the top (toyota usa) and hopefully you can get some action.
don't know how often you change your tranny fluid but some tranny do fail even after a year or so regardless of mileage. sometimes we may have bought a vehicle that perhaps wasn't assembled properly and in the end - we, the owners would suffer! it applies to every car manufacturer and not just GM, FORD or CHRYSLER.
just my $0.02. goodluck with your sienna
Before you do ANYTHING contact Bob Brennan at brennanlaw.com
This lawyer is the toughest as far as Auto Laws etc. I'm not associated with him he just nailed the largest Dealer in L.A. and one of the Largest Big three for me with GREAT results..
Sadly, your experience is similar to one we had with a Volkswagen dealer. We got a used 1977 VW Bus with a written 30 day, 1000 mile warranty. When it had to be refueled 3 times to go 200 miles (11.1 MPG on freeway driving at 50 MPH) we knew we had a problem.
We took it back 3 days and just over 200 miles stating we had a major problem. The dealer would do NOTHING to honor the warranty.
Contrast this to a 1980 Chevrolet Citation we got new. The 2nd gear in a 4 speed manual would not stay engaged after the warranty had expired. We took it to the closest Chevy dealer which was not where we got it. When asked, we told them the warranty had expired.
Imagine our pleasant surprise when we picked it up after they rebuilt the transmission and said there would be "No Charge" to us.
A decent dealership will fix a major problem and bill the manufacturer. A sleezy dealership will give the customer the run around since warranty work is not as lucrative as to bill the customer.
Just wondering if this is a common problem before going to dealer.
Thanks
if this keep happening to you, take it back to the dealer. you may have a defective remote or it's not programmed properly.
I press the unlock button again (within 3 seconds) the van beeps (it has received the second press) but the doors (all rear and drivers) do not unlock.
Again this happens every so often.
Have a look at your owners manual for detailed instructions. I believe the "beep" sound only occurs when the doors are locked. The beep does not sound when the doors unlock. Press the button once and you hear the drivers door unlock. Press the button a second time, within a prescribed period, and you should hear the rest of the doors unlock.
http://www.toyota.com/html/owners/maintenance/index.html
30,000 Miles or 24 Months
Additional maintenance items for Special Operating Conditions:
Replace transmission and differential oil
Yes, you'll have your receipt but how do you "prove" that the maintenance was actually done? Video? Bucket of used AT Fluid?
Seems like a tough standard to set...but I'm interested in your insight.
Scott
Anyone had a similiar problem? Any ideas?
wait 2 days, tell her it needs to be checked again by another dealer!! by the end of the week, tell her the van needs weekly check-ups!! :-)
2. During a routine valve cover gasket replacement, antifreeze could accidentally run or drip into the oil. (http://www.universitycarwash.com/faq.htm)
Ok, I'll agree that #2 is even more far fetched than #1, not to mention that a short oil change interval would probably keep the sludge at bay if it did happen.
Here's a message outlining the Toyota oil change schedule, with a link to the Toyota maintenance page that may be of interest.
stkgator "Toyota Sienna" Jan 9, 2002 8:40am
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
SO, for those of us who perform work on our own and the van breaks down - does this mean we are basically screwed coz we can't prove we did the work ourselves unless we have receipts to show for oil filters, etc.? even with receipts, some dealers still won't accept resposibility and will blame the owner. basically, owners have no choice but to take their vehicles to the dealer to perform such services called "Lubrication" (in my sienna manual) and such service changes oil/filter and check lights, horn, lubricate doors, check wipers, check tire pressure, etc. and get charged something like over C$35! yeah it is so hard to check your horn, lights and so on! to me, this is absolute crap!
does this mean then, that any new cars should not be serviced by its owner - regardless if its only oil change or rotating tires, etc. until it has passed the stated warranty period to avoid these problems with the dealers/manufacturers?
if we are going to service our own vehicles, do we have to start videotaping ourselves for each service, date, things done, videotape the mileage and have it signed/sealed by the notary public in case the dealer asks for proof!?!?!?! seems to me like this is the best way to provide proof to those !@$#%^*&^% dealers!
Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
And this is a good summary too:
Steps to Take if Your Vehicle Warranty Claim is Denied
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Since this has become an empassioned topic, I'll try to keep this as brief and objective as possible.
Several factors, alone or in concert, can cause engine sludging. The most common is water in the oil, usually from internal condensation resulting from cold startup, or occasionally from a seeping head gasket. This is especially true during short trip winter driving, where the engine doesn't have time to fully normalize and gas off any condensate. At least one auto manufacturer has determined that 10 - 15 miles of freeway operation are required to bring everything up to full operating temperature. Richer fuel mixtures required for cold engine startup combined with high sulphur content fuel can also contribute to sludging. Hence the recommendation for more frequent oil change intervals in the winter, especially for short trip drivers. An often overlooked possible contributing factor is a hot running engine, which can promote oil oxidation and breakdown. So, on the surface it would appear that operator negligence re servicing would be the primary cause of sludge buildup.
However, the engine's positive crankcase ventilation system is designed to purge combustion blowby gases, water vapour, and any other gaseous contaminants from the crankcase. This system should reduce or at least delay the rate of oil contamination. If the PCV system is inoperative or compromised, or poorly designed (inadequate or localized crankcase vacuum), then the rate of sludge buildup could accelerate despite oil changes in accordance with manufacturers' specified intervals. Could engine design be at least partly responsible? Chrysler, for example, currently has an issue with some of their V8 engine oil fillers which don't heat at the same rate as the rest of the engine due in part to placement directly in the cooling fan air stream, allowing condensation to build up and sludge to form in the filler tube and underside of the filler cap.
I'm not sure if this is the answer you were looking for, but it's the collective opinion of 2 other automotive technical professors and myself (I teach emission control systems, among other disciplines), with a current combined trade and research experience of 109 years.
Here is a link woth some good info:
Http://boatside.net/what_causes_engine_sludge.htm
There are other causes of sludge. But I know you work for Toyota and their only response is Lack of mainteance.
Me suspects that is because all these postings come from a single source--I don't know a class action suit can be filed on behalf of someone's multiple alia's.
That being said "She-who-must-not-be-named" must have been hurt really bad by a Toyota dealer somewhere.
Since I don't have a sludge problem on my '00 I will just watch...
My engine sludged after 10200 miles and 10 months. I had changed the oil at 5000 miles. I did not even know what sludge meant until my oil light came on after a 500 mile trip.... and I started checking the web.
Sure enough, looking into the oil fill area I can see a lake of black 'ointment' that I can stick my finger into. The car runs, but puffs smoke.
There seem to be a lot of 'Japan Inc' defenders on the sites rebutting the possibility that there is a problem with the Sienna engine. They often take the position that owners cause this problem themselves by not changing oil every 3000 miles, rather than the 7500 miles recommended by Toyota manuals.
Actually, I'm the type that does 3000 mi changes. But when I took delivery I was specifically told (unprompted) NOT to change the oil early, since they were filled with a special break-in oil that should be used for at least 5000 miles. Maybe this was gratuitous post-sales hype (or it may be the basis of the Toyota-Pennzoil suit) but it was presented very emphatically.
Now that I have a ruined engine, I recall an occasion when the car was only a few months old when my wife was driving off and I saw a puff of oil smoke. The car was so new I sort of just dismissed it.
Based on my experience and what I read here, Toyota has a big problem on its its hands and it's defensive posture is serving loyal customers poorly.
The preponderance of data and my personal experience leave me convinced that the Company Men who frequent edmonds and this site trashing complaint makers may be misleading other Sienna owners that do not YET have sludged engines.
Taking their advice and changing oil on these engines twice as often as the manual suggests may simply postpone the problem until the warranty miles are over, thus lowering the complaint profile.
Since this engine is sludge prone I'm dumping my Sienna with an early trade for a non-Toyota and advise anyone who can afford it to do the same now, before it sludges and you lose $6000.
Be aware, however, that the trade-value of your Sienna has already been affected by this problem, and dealers are carefully inspecting these cars before accepting them, if they accept them at all.
_
Well, since this is my last Toyota, I may as well lodge a complete complaint and include info on my two prior Toyotas.
1999 Sienna van. Transmission failed suddenly on trip 400 miles from home at 34000 miles. Dealer quizzed me about recommended 30000 mi maintenance, and I showed him the receipt of the transmission fluid service at 30000 miles. After his obligotory defamation of jiffy lube, and a rental car and a return visit to the area a week later, I drove off with my new transmission. Two days later, after driving home, the transmission failed and my local dealer replaced it with ANOTHER new one. Seems the other dealer forgot to put the plug in. So much for dissing jiffy lube (but see below)
1988 Camry. Transmission failed the first year and was replaced under warranty. They called with a quality survey the next day. I said we were happy with the repair and the service. They asked me if I was displeased with any aspect of the service. I said well, since you asked, I wish they had called me to let me know the status of the repair, since they had a few days delay in getting a part, but no big deal. Two days later my wife gets a call from the 'service' tech saying he was called into his bosses office and reprimanded and was shown a copy of our 'complaint' . He told my wife never to do that again or he 'would come over and take care of her' (exact quote). Since we were moving to a different city within a few days and had been threatened by this nutso employee, we dropped it. However, we had an oil change at jiffy lube a day later and the tech pulled us over to show us that there was NO transmission fluid in our week old transmission. Saved by the luck of an oil change at jiffy lube (not they are perfect) -- of course we dared not tell Toyota.
(note... I will crosspost this to other sites)
all the sludge problems i read seems to be on u.s. models.
i keep loosing the one on top! real annoying! finally stopped replacing them coz they cost C$8+ a piece! what a rip-off! i tried to glue them on but still came off!
i plan to just stick a piece of tape over the hole unless i can find a way to make it stay in place.
if all else fails, i'm sticking a piece of tape over the hole!!
is it coming from your engine, windows, doors, etc. does the whistle go away at all or is it there all the time? does it happen only when the engine is cold?
i have a 99 sienna with 51,000+kms. and during cold mornings, i will get this squeak/whistle type of sound during warm-up and then it goes away once the engine is warm. i believe it's got to do with the belt. it happened for about a month and so far, i havent heard it again.
Mine on my 2001 whistles a little - the wife's 1998 does not - goes away after a while - doesn't really bother me but others have had it replaced (assuming you have a dealer willing to care - many would consider it a minor problem).
Good luck!
i believe there were some post about this earlier this month or last december.