I'm not sure that it is the look as much as the practicality. A couple months ago the most recent posts within the owners club went to the top of the page, so that you knew that these were new. Now, you have to look through them all or try to remember the post numbers.
Wow, I finally have done it. I wanted to review all the forums in the Owners Club before I posted. I am John and from northern Virginia. I purchased a Moonmist Gray 2001 Trooper LS 4WD (no moon roof) the end of March. I left the finance department for $27,256, tags and taxes included. I already had my financing so I used the rebate. The Trooper will primarily be for the wife and kids, I get to drive some on weekends and trips. Mostly to be used for the soccer mom functions around town (none of our kids play soccer), so I probably will not need any of the off road enhancements. I hope to order a step rail from St Charles Isuzu in the near future, but I need a garage door opener first.
How did I get here? In the summer of 99 I purchased a GMC C1500 Suburban SLT 2WD from an individual with 43K miles. His only problem had been a bad alternator, which was replaced while still under warranty. Carfax checked out good. I owned a number of GM vehicles in the past 20 years, at the time I had a Pontiac Firebird with 330K miles. The Sub was the biggest investment that I had made in a vehicle, but my reasoning was that a heavy duty vehicle like this should last a very long time, only putting 12-15K a year on it. It had plenty of room so I could spread the kids out to reduce the picking at each other (yeah right). Anyway 2 months latter on a trip back from Pennsylvania the transmission went bad. Bad transmission 46K miles, (GMs warranty stops at 36K) that hurt. For $2200 Mr. GoodWrench fixed me right up. The next month then the battery and the starter went bad. Then I got a nice 6 month period, so I replaced tires and brakes. I replaced another alternator. Then this past February the transmission goes bad again at 63K miles. Mr. GoodWrench had to fix the tranny for free because the warranty on the replacement, but the truck caught a bad fuel pump while in their shop, so I had to have it towed back to them for a $350 repair. I am a patient man but I needed to start looking. I was thinking trying to swap out maybe with a used Expedition or Durango. My in-laws are union people all the way so I have only owned domestic vehicles. I search the net for GM Transmission problems and found this site.
I was not alone, the transmission problems starting in 96 were very common, one person was on their 4th and another on their 5th tranny at 100K. A number of Fords were having the same problem, the poor Durangos had bad tranny and bad engines. Most start at 36,001 miles. Okay toss those out, I may have to go foreign, and need to try buying new, might have to go to a van. Net searches produce increasing problems with Hondas, the new Toyota minivans appear to have sludge buildup in the engines. The Montys have numerous problems. The Nissans Quest and Isuzu Troopers seemed the ones with the least real problems. My wife likes driving a truck and does not want a stinking minivan (I agree). After much research the Trooper was the vehicle of choice. I found few bad problems, the best warranty of anything (at this time, this is very important to me), and the cost is very reasonable. The negatives would be reduced seating capacity (let them fight), the gas mileage (hey this is an improvement over the Suburban).
Next task to find the right deal, Edmunds really helps you know what to expect with price and values. I set a drop dead figure that I would not go over. The first dealer had a good price for the Trooper but offered only $12500 for trade in on the Suburban. (for all those upset about the lost values on Troopers for trade in, its all SUVs) The salesman finally got to 14K but that was still $1500 over my cap. Granted this dealership was Honda/Isuzu, so their GMC market was limited, so the next day I went to a GMC/Isuzu dealership. I went straight to the numbers, I had no use for a test drive unless the numbers worked, they offered 15.5K for the Suburban and worked other numbers, I told them only number I wanted to see was the bottom line figure that I would leave with. He was $750 over my cap and would not lower the price of the Trooper, when I would not move on my figure, he added another $800 to the Suburban which put me under my self imposed cap. ($16K was kbb value of my Suburban) I said now I need the keys for the test drive.
That my story
Thanks for your patience
John ><)))>
PS Paisan, 115 MPH, Pulling a trailer @ 80MPH , you may be a little nuts, but it sounds like youre a good guy. Thanks for all your work with monitoring these forums and for your Isuzu SUV web page.
Welcome to the crew. Hopefully you will be able to make our weekly chats here on edmunds. Feel free to IM me if you are on AOL or have AOL IM installed (I'm Paisan12 there) Send me some pics for the Owner's Gallery on Isuzu-suvs.com
80 with the trailer and cruise control
115 was a momentary burst, I don't normally drive above 77-80 on the highway.
Hey, that's a great recap. Welcome to the Isuzu trooper ownership group. Interesting on the suburban. I've thought about the '99 as a replacement for my FORD windstar van. Might have to think more about that.
I'm not sure I understand. After logging in and opening a discussion, the system doesn't recognize the messages you have already read? Are you using the subscription function? Accessing from a bookmark on your browser?
yes, new messages usually do not show up on refreshing the browser as 'new'. I access from a bookmark if the netscape window is not open--otherwise I refresh. Sometimes new messages show up that were read long ago. I am not using subscription--what's that?
This GM tranny appears to be 1st rate in the trooper. I have had, and so have others that I know, good luck with several GM transmissions--other than the 1500 or 2500 truck tranny. I know someone who had a suburban tranny go out--the mileage was high but not out of site. GM claims to be the 1st with the auto tranny and they seem to know in many cases what they're doing. I'm not sure what the shortcut is on the tranny for the suburban truck or if its just the numbers they produce for the GM trucks in general that's the problem.
Okay, this is happening because when you bookmarked the page originally it was at a certain place in the discussion. If you look at the URL of this page, the last part of the code looks something like this: .eea1202/265. The numbers after the slash refer to the last message number in the discussion. Bookmarking this page at this time will always return you to the page where post #265 exists. Hence you have to scroll through messages you've already read to find the new.
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Hey just wanted to let you guys know to be very very careful when off-roading through mud and water. Hydrolock is a very dangerous situation that can cause major engine damage. Sean and I and a bunch of subies were down in the pine barrens... Sean sucked some water into his engine (we aren't sure how) it stalled and wouldn't crank. We popped off the covers for the plugs, but didn't take out the plugs. Finally got the engine to crank but must have still had water in the engine and are afraid we bent a rod.
If you do suck water into the engine, the proper procedure is to take out the plugs disconnect the intake, and crank the engine. It won't start obviously because there is no plugs in the engine, but you should shoot most of the water out of the engine through the sparkplug openings and the intake. Then put your plugs back and you should be ok.
i wound up towing Sean back out to the main road (through some mud-holes on the way out too boot) and he had it towed home I hope he keeps us posted on his situation.
Wow, just saw the post. That is some bad luck. Good luck sb on the diagnosis for getting it in running order. I sure hope there's no major failures like the bent rod situation.
When you say disconnect the intake, how do you do that?
You can disconnect the spark plugs by first removing the direct-fire ignition wires, then you need a LONG extension for a socket to take the spark plugs out. The intake is one phillips head screw tight clamp, it is where the big plastic tube enters the front of the engine. Behind it is the butterfly flap that regulates how much air-flow/fuel-flow you get.
It was not a proud moment for the Trooper, but if you go off-roading I guess you have to be ready for stuff like this to happen. Fortunately we were pretty well prepared, i.e. tow strap, some tools, and a good bunch of guys...Thanks again for the tow Piason.
Last night I drained the oil, ran a quart through and then filled it back up. It was the color of pond water. While hitting about a 20ft across water hole, I hit a pot hole, the driver side went down a picked up a bunch of water over the top of my bumper...this drained right into the air intake behind the headlight, or thereabouts. Taking things a little slower could have prevented this, like putting a blanket over the hood, or towel in front of the air intake. It sounds like a bent rod, but not to bad, I cranked it last night to disperse the new oil, but definitely out of commission. I think it is time for a snorkel!
It could have been a lot worse, we didn't run it much, I had a lot of great help, and AAA towed me home for $100 plus $20 tip. I am calling my dealer today. I am bummed, but if you want to play you have to be ready to pay.
Wow, those Subaru's were pretty good over the trails too.
It was a lot of fun too. I just am focussing on the end, sort of puts a damper on the whole thing. The first half of the day was great, a mud holes, small hill climbs, etc. and I will be back out soon! I won't take water so lightly next time.
Glad to hear it hasn't scared you off. Alot of people get scared off when something like that happens. Once you are back in shape we'll plan another trip!
Sorry to hear about your hydrolock situation...but I have to ask, what rod did you bend? This caught my attention because typically that phrase refers to a connecting rod in the valvetrain...but since a Trooper has a DOHC setup, there are no connecting rods to bend. Of course, if you have an older Trooper then connecting rods are a definite possiblity and you have my apology for even bringing it up...
We were just guessing that it was a rod. Aren't there still rods that push the pistons? Maybe not (I'm not very mechanically inclined). After the hydrolock though there is a very loud rapping noise from the engine. We just assumed it was a piston, rod, or other internal component that got bent when it tried to compress the water that was stuck in the cylinder.
All I can think of to say is...that stinks. I hope it isn't as serious as suspected. On the bright side, at least you have good friends here to share your pain.
It could be a rod, maybe a valve? I have had a similar noise from a problem with broken valve on a 90 Nissan?
There are 2 scenario's, the cold water caused something hot to break, or cranking it with water in the system was too much stress on a component? I think the cold water probably was the culprit, but it has been picked up by the dealer and I will know more later this week.
Fortunately it is just a truck (well a pretty cool one), but it can be fixed, and easily. The only real issues are cost and warranty, those are the 2 areas I think I am in deep water with!
Am I allowed to post here? Sean, it was nice meeting you (I've already met paisan). You Trooper guys were doing some pretty impressive stuff. Everytime we had the chance, we all turned around to watch the Troopers plow through the mud. Hopefully, everything will work out as smooth as possible with your truck. Thank God paisan didn't drive his Subaru and was able to tow you out! Dennis Outback Sport
The connecting rod is what holds the piston to the crankshaft. This part is not in the valve train.
You are think of a push rod which is in valve train. You are right though overhead cam engines do not have push rods.
Both can become bent or broken when things go bad. I always feared hydro-lock in my Prelude with a cold air intake - the filter was less than a foot from the ground.
I had heard previously that the air intake was in the fender well area--I'm not sure where--- for the purposes of getting cool air, but I wonder about the wisdom of this positioning, particularly for a commonly used offroad vehicle. If the air intake were on top of the engine as in the old days of carb engines this wouldn't be an issue. The snorkle set-up is something to consider. Does anyone know of anything available in this regard as of yet?
I believe the air-intake is ok on stock vehicles. From the looks of his truck it had an Arb front bumper. Perhaps during the installation of that, the protected air-box intake cowl was somehow modified or changed such that there was less protection? The only snorkel like device I see being available would cut a hole in the fender and run up along the A-pillar.
I didn't modify the air-intake at all. Actually I didn't have to make many modifications to fit the bumper, just a few holes in the frame for extra bolts. I believe the air-intake comes out directly behind the drivers turn signal/headlight. I cannot verify because my truck is now in the shop :-). Water came up over the bumper and seemed to pour right in? To move it for everyday driving doesn't seem wise, mileage and other problems could result. I can tell you though there will be a solution in place the next time.
The position isn't great for water travel, but is high enough. A dip in the trail beneath the water caused the front end to duck and go under for just a second, I guess just long enough. I am not sure, but I think a lot of 4wd's use a similar air intake locations.
I cleaned it well. I took the hose and sprayed all the mud and junk off the underside. I had to dig some mud out of the skid plates. I washed the outside pretty well, but not super, I didn't want it to look too clean. I tried cleaning the engine compartment, but it was tough.
I told them sort of what happened. Basically that, I think I got some water in the engine? That I hit a hole in about 6" of water and it splashed up over the bumper. The truck stalled, which I thought was the ignition system? When I cranked it, it was thumping. I left it at that. Multiply the water by 2 and replace splashed with almost submerged...
They are pretty good, I doubt I am going to get much past them, and actually I am afraid to. If it is serious, I would rather have it fixed right, than having the least amount done under warranty. I still plan on having this truck for another 100k miles or so.
It was fun meet the subie guys, and treekiller, awesome celica AWD. I will be back, sooner than you think. Better prepared NEXT time!
Sean that's cool. I'm sure they'll get you back up and running soon. Wanna come to NC in July with us? a bunch of us are caravanning down thurs night and back on sunday. camping. Should be a lot of fun.
It is close to another vacation, so I am not sure. I am trying to though. I won't have much time to drain the differentials and have it properly serviced between the two trips? Maybe if we do it the Sunday before we leave it might be possible. Keep me in the loop, I need to get my truck back first!
Love it. Got it at outdoorsports.com, best price I found on the web. Depending on use it is great. The only other rack I would consider would be a true safari rack...that is if I needed a rack that could carry a spare and extra gas.
My truck is in the shop, which may turn out to be an extended stay...does anyone know what the coverage is regarding rental cars? If this repair turns out to be under warranty, which I am hoping...can I get a rental for free or cheap?
Usually I think that giving a loaner is something the dealer does and varies from dealer to dealer and varies depending on how new the car you bought is. I know in the first few months my FORD dealer gave a loaner--but after I complained and phoned up FORD etc. They may have received some comp from FORD--not sure. Probably on the '99, you won't get a loaner. Insurance--if you have the complete coverage-- will pay for rentals at a bare bones rate in an accident situation, but I'm not sure if you want to get involved with that. It might be worth checking with insurance to see if they cover water damage or what the warranty may not cover.
Seems to me that running through 2-3 ft of water is not an uncommon thing. Near my house I ran through a street with about 1.5 ft of water during one of the messes from a hurricane a couple yrs ago--and later that evening someone got stuck in about 3 ft of it. The problem is convincing someone during this dry spell that you have received water damage. Possibly indicating that you were sight seeing in the Pine Barrens and ran into water that was deeper than expected would be enough. Obviously, you didn't want to water log your engine on purpose.
The dealer is pretty cool, they are not sure about the warranty yet, but said they will do what they can. From my standpoint, I would rather pay vs. a free repair to have the words, "good as new" said to me.
The initial report is that it just may be the timing belt is out of whack...maybe from forcing it to crank over...and that since we didn't run it very long it might be OK. They will have to run compression tests to make sure there isn't any long term engine damage. I have my fingers and toes crossed...
It looks like it might be worse than thought. They are talking about replacing the short block. I am trying to see if they can just replace the whole engine for less. It will still be under warranty when they are done though.
I wish. They said that hydo-lock is not a warranty item. They also said that the damage probably occurred immediately, when the engine stopped. They said even if the ignition was out, the turning engine trying to compress the cold water, probably bent the piston rod.
Here is the upshot, They will get a short block and rebuild the engine for $5700, and it should be "as good as new" and the "warranty will still be valid". Statefarm will cover it as a "collision" (I told them what happened roughly, dirt road and water was deeper than I thought, etc.) so all I will hopefully owe is my $500 dollar deductible and towing, that is not part of my coverage...If Statefarm won't cover it, I have a place that I can get it a whole new engine for $4500 installed.
The dealer commented at how well the truck actually was running. They said other than a bent piston rod, it was running fine, so they suspect minimal damage. Unfortunately to pull it apart and fix the one piston would be just as expensive as buying the bottom half of the engine.
The water wasn't too deep. I was going fast enough to make it through a bad mud spots but not too fast. I was actually being fairly careful (obviously not enough), but didn't check the water for any possible obstacles beneath.
There was a dip under the water, maybe a spot where someone got stuck before? The front end dropped through that and water came up over the bumper and went right into the intake.
Comments
Hope this helps!
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
How did I get here? In the summer of 99 I purchased a GMC C1500 Suburban SLT 2WD from an individual with 43K miles. His only problem had been a bad alternator, which was replaced while still under warranty. Carfax checked out good. I owned a number of GM vehicles in the past 20 years, at the time I had a Pontiac Firebird with 330K miles. The Sub was the biggest investment that I had made in a vehicle, but my reasoning was that a heavy duty vehicle like this should last a very long time, only putting 12-15K a year on it. It had plenty of room so I could spread the kids out to reduce the picking at each other (yeah right). Anyway 2 months latter on a trip back from Pennsylvania the transmission went bad. Bad transmission 46K miles, (GMs warranty stops at 36K) that hurt. For $2200 Mr. GoodWrench fixed me right up. The next month then the battery and the starter went bad. Then I got a nice 6 month period, so I replaced tires and brakes. I replaced another alternator. Then this past February the transmission goes bad again at 63K miles. Mr. GoodWrench had to fix the tranny for free because the warranty on the replacement, but the truck caught a bad fuel pump while in their shop, so I had to have it towed back to them for a $350 repair. I am a patient man but I needed to start looking. I was thinking trying to swap out maybe with a used Expedition or Durango. My in-laws are union people all the way so I have only owned domestic vehicles. I search the net for GM Transmission problems and found this site.
http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/g/gm_toc.htm
I was not alone, the transmission problems starting in 96 were very common, one person was on their 4th and another on their 5th tranny at 100K. A number of Fords were having the same problem, the poor Durangos had bad tranny and bad engines. Most start at 36,001 miles. Okay toss those out, I may have to go foreign, and need to try buying new, might have to go to a van. Net searches produce increasing problems with Hondas, the new Toyota minivans appear to have sludge buildup in the engines. The Montys have numerous problems. The Nissans Quest and Isuzu Troopers seemed the ones with the least real problems. My wife likes driving a truck and does not want a stinking minivan (I agree). After much research the Trooper was the vehicle of choice. I found few bad problems, the best warranty of anything (at this time, this is very important to me), and the cost is very reasonable. The negatives would be reduced seating capacity (let them fight), the gas mileage (hey this is an improvement over the Suburban).
Next task to find the right deal, Edmunds really helps you know what to expect with price and values. I set a drop dead figure that I would not go over. The first dealer had a good price for the Trooper but offered only $12500 for trade in on the Suburban. (for all those upset about the lost values on Troopers for trade in, its all SUVs) The salesman finally got to 14K but that was still $1500 over my cap. Granted this dealership was Honda/Isuzu, so their GMC market was limited, so the next day I went to a GMC/Isuzu dealership. I went straight to the numbers, I had no use for a test drive unless the numbers worked, they offered 15.5K for the Suburban and worked other numbers, I told them only number I wanted to see was the bottom line figure that I would leave with. He was $750 over my cap and would not lower the price of the Trooper, when I would not move on my figure, he added another $800 to the Suburban which put me under my self imposed cap. ($16K was kbb value of my Suburban) I said now I need the keys for the test drive.
That my story
Thanks for your patience
John ><)))>
PS Paisan, 115 MPH, Pulling a trailer @ 80MPH , you may be a little nuts, but it sounds like youre a good guy. Thanks for all your work with monitoring these forums and for your Isuzu SUV web page.
Welcome to the crew. Hopefully you will be able to make our weekly chats here on edmunds. Feel free to IM me if you are on AOL or have AOL IM installed (I'm Paisan12 there) Send me some pics for the Owner's Gallery on Isuzu-suvs.com
80 with the trailer and cruise control
115 was a momentary burst, I don't normally drive above 77-80 on the highway.
-mike
http://isuzu-suvs.com
-mike
-mike
I'm not sure I understand. After logging in and opening a discussion, the system doesn't recognize the messages you have already read? Are you using the subscription function? Accessing from a bookmark on your browser?
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
To Subscribe to a board or discussion, while on the page of the item you wish to subscribe to, click "Subscribe" at the bottom of the screen. In the following window, select the box for "Track New Messages: See your new messages when you click on Read Subscriptions." Click OK at the bottom of the screen.
To view new messages for the items on your subscription list, click "Read Subscriptions" at the bottom of the screen while in a board or discussion. The new messages for the first item on your subscription list will be displayed. To continue reading the new messages in your subscription list, continue clicking on "Read Subscriptions". You will be taken directly to the next new message on your list.
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Hope this info is helpful!
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
If you do suck water into the engine, the proper procedure is to take out the plugs disconnect the intake, and crank the engine. It won't start obviously because there is no plugs in the engine, but you should shoot most of the water out of the engine through the sparkplug openings and the intake. Then put your plugs back and you should be ok.
i wound up towing Sean back out to the main road (through some mud-holes on the way out too boot) and he had it towed home
So everyone wish him luck on this...
-mike
When you say disconnect the intake, how do you do that?
-mike
Last night I drained the oil, ran a quart through and then filled it back up. It was the color of pond water. While hitting about a 20ft across water hole, I hit a pot hole, the driver side went down a picked up a bunch of water over the top of my bumper...this drained right into the air intake behind the headlight, or thereabouts. Taking things a little slower could have prevented this, like putting a blanket over the hood, or towel in front of the air intake. It sounds like a bent rod, but not to bad, I cranked it last night to disperse the new oil, but definitely out of commission. I think it is time for a snorkel!
It could have been a lot worse, we didn't run it much, I had a lot of great help, and AAA towed me home for $100 plus $20 tip. I am calling my dealer today. I am bummed, but if you want to play you have to be ready to pay.
Wow, those Subaru's were pretty good over the trails too.
-mike
-mike
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
There are 2 scenario's, the cold water caused something hot to break, or cranking it with water in the system was too much stress on a component? I think the cold water probably was the culprit, but it has been picked up by the dealer and I will know more later this week.
Fortunately it is just a truck (well a pretty cool one), but it can be fixed, and easily. The only real issues are cost and warranty, those are the 2 areas I think I am in deep water with!
Sean, it was nice meeting you (I've already met paisan). You Trooper guys were doing some pretty impressive stuff. Everytime we had the chance, we all turned around to watch the Troopers plow through the mud. Hopefully, everything will work out as smooth as possible with your truck. Thank God paisan didn't drive his Subaru and was able to tow you out!
Dennis
Outback Sport
Did you clean the truck before they picked it up? I hope they don't hammer you on the warranty, afterall you were just "going farther"!
-mike
You are think of a push rod which is in valve train. You are right though overhead cam engines do not have push rods.
Both can become bent or broken when things go bad. I always feared hydro-lock in my Prelude with a cold air intake - the filter was less than a foot from the ground.
-mike
The position isn't great for water travel, but is high enough. A dip in the trail beneath the water caused the front end to duck and go under for just a second, I guess just long enough. I am not sure, but I think a lot of 4wd's use a similar air intake locations.
My vehicle is better than yours because....
Brag about your ride on Tuesday, May 8, 5-6pm PT/8-9pm ET in the new News & Views Weekly Chat
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
I told them sort of what happened. Basically that, I think I got some water in the engine? That I hit a hole in about 6" of water and it splashed up over the bumper. The truck stalled, which I thought was the ignition system? When I cranked it, it was thumping. I left it at that. Multiply the water by 2 and replace splashed with almost submerged...
They are pretty good, I doubt I am going to get much past them, and actually I am afraid to. If it is serious, I would rather have it fixed right, than having the least amount done under warranty. I still plan on having this truck for another 100k miles or so.
It was fun meet the subie guys, and treekiller, awesome celica AWD. I will be back, sooner than you think. Better prepared NEXT time!
-mike
The initial report is that it just may be the timing belt is out of whack...maybe from forcing it to crank over...and that since we didn't run it very long it might be OK. They will have to run compression tests to make sure there isn't any long term engine damage. I have my fingers and toes crossed...
-mike
No warranty coverage on this repair however, ugh!
-mike
Here is the upshot, They will get a short block and rebuild the engine for $5700, and it should be "as good as new" and the "warranty will still be valid". Statefarm will cover it as a "collision" (I told them what happened roughly, dirt road and water was deeper than I thought, etc.) so all I will hopefully owe is my $500 dollar deductible and towing, that is not part of my coverage...If Statefarm won't cover it, I have a place that I can get it a whole new engine for $4500 installed.
The dealer commented at how well the truck actually was running. They said other than a bent piston rod, it was running fine, so they suspect minimal damage. Unfortunately to pull it apart and fix the one piston would be just as expensive as buying the bottom half of the engine.
-mike
-mike
http://isuzu-suvs.com
There was a dip under the water, maybe a spot where someone got stuck before? The front end dropped through that and water came up over the bumper and went right into the intake.