Isuzu Owners Maintenance and Repair

breakor

Again my experience was that I got about 1 quart of fluid out of the fill plug on a warm non-running engine when I started the drain. I did a full drain and refill. As accurately as I could measure I got out a little over 9 qts of ATF in total. As it turned out I added back precisely that same amount when the fluid just ran out the fill plug on a warm running engine. Therefore my conclusion was that I started with a proper fill from the factory and that a running vehicle has about 1 more qt of ATF "up" in the system (i.e. not in the pan) than a non-running one. If this is correct, then you still sound like you are slightly low in ATF.

Alternatively, along the lines of Paisan's comment, maybe it is possible that the ATF drain is very sensitve to how the tranny was last used. For example, maybe a car barely driven for say 5 minutes and then drained has different draining characteristics than a car driven for hours and then cooled for an hour even though they both have similarly "warm trannys". This could explain your 2 qt drain versus my 4 qts from the lower plug.

In any event the fill check, to the best of my knowledge, is to be done on a warm running vehicle; preferably one that has been just shifted through all the gears. If your level is correct under these conditions then you should be just fine. Whether a similar level on a non-running vehicle is close enough I don't know.

bluedevils

thanks again for your followup. I've convinced myself that the ATF level was, and is, correct (i.e., "full"). All checks and fill were performed w/engine running and shifting through the gears. I drained 2 quarts and added 2 quarts.

I think I'll need to re-read some of the prior posts to fully understand the first paragraph of your #1100. I'm starting to confuse myself.

Do you think I'd get more than 2 quarts the next time I drained? I'm hoping that more will drain next time if the engine is warmer than my first attempt. However, I can offer no logic to support this hope.

keepontroopin

It seems like with all the problems you guys are having with the ATF change maybe it would be best to have it done at a shop or dealer.

paisan

Yeah I'm gonna have mine done @ a dealer, cause I don't trust myself to do it right. I leave it to experts when I'm not sure of what I'm doing.

-mike

bluedevils

I definitely will not pay dealership prices for an ATF change. That leaves me with other "shops" as options-- independent repair shops, quick lube places, etc.

I've heard some posts - in this topic? - that not all of those fluid exchanger machines are created equal, some do things differently, and some might be potentially hazardous if not handled properly.

My preference would be to pay a shop to drain ALL the fluid, then add the new stuff myself. Maybe I'll try that. Even though I'm an amateur car maintenance do-it-yourselfer, I'd feel better about me adding the proper amount of fluid than some guy at a shop. He may know 5 times as much about car maint/repair, but I'm 10 times more careful.

paisan

But how are you gonna add it if you can't drive it? Also as in any car repair stuff, you need to choose your dealer/repair shop carefully. Luckily I've found a few good ones I can trust.

-mike

keepontroopin

I don't want to be behind you as you are driving from the shop to your house with no Fluid in the Transmission!!!!!!!!! I guess you could have it towed to your house after the you pay the mechanic to empty it. So cost of Mechanic to empty + cost of tow + cost of Fluid + cost of your time = great bargain......NOT!!!

sbcooke

I put a message up about my engine having a oil and trans leak about a week ago, well more like sweating..but anyway...The dealer just called. They don't think it is the rear main seal? What they recommended is injecting the transmission fluid with dye and then in a couple of weeks checking with a black light to see where the leak is? I guess as long as they plan on fixing it and it is under warranty, it works for me.

They don't think it is a serious leak so I can still take it on a trip to upstate NY. All things considered, I think I am satisfied? I guess I will wait until it is finally resolved, but I think I can trust these guys.

bluedevils

keepontroopin, I didn't say I was going to drive home from the shop with no auto trans fluid! I'm just trying to figure out the "best" way to replace the current tranny fluid with new Mobil1 ATF.

I've heard of neither a good shop in my area or one with experience on Japanese vehicles in particular, so I have no confidence that anybody can work on my truck with any level of knowledge. That includes dealerships, by the way. Isuzus are pretty rare in the Detroit area-- only 3 dealers in the entire metro Detroit area.

paisan

I thought I saw a lot of Zus when I was out there. I was suprised

-mike

fiveharpers

I have reached the 7500 mile mark and need some info on a couple of items that need to be done. I will be changing the oil for the second time and have already rotated the tires and made all the other checks. The items are -

1: Lube Accelerator Linkage -Where, what, how and with what lubricant

2: Lube Rear Propellar Shaft - Where, what, how and with what lubricant

3: Lube Body and Chassis - Where

4: Check Propellar Shaft Flange Torgue - Where, How

Any info on this would be helpful and should be posted on Paisan's How to List. I am like many other and I am fearful to take the Trooper to the dealer or other service shops if I can avoid it. To many bad experiences.
Thanks in advance - John

bluedevils

paisan, you were in Ann Arbor for your Michigan visit, right? A-squared is a MUCH different town than the rest of the Detroit area. Lots of imports in A.A. - Japanese, German, etc. The rest of the area is much different-- much higher percentage of Big 3 brands.

bluedevils

I can't tell you how to do any of the items on your list, but here's my perspective: none of these are very important. I take very good care of our Trooper. That said, I have had the chassis lubricated only once (at the dealer, cost $14 or so-- I hope they actually did it, and lubed the appropriate stuff). The rest of the stuff, I've never had done. Our 98 Trooper is nearing 53k miles. Perhaps I'll think about doing some of these items in the future, but I wouldn't trust anybody except a dealer to even know how/where they are done. I'll probably wait until I get the Helm factory workshop manual for Christmas and try to start doing these sorts of things myself.

bluedevils

I seem to remember a semi-helpful post in the last couple months about where the chassis lubrication points are on the newer Troopers. Don't remember if it was here or at itog.com.

Is there any way to perform a SEARCH of past posts on Edmund's? I think the answer is 'no' but wanted confirmation. If so, that's very disappointing and, in my opinion, a serious gap in functionality for this otherwise excellent web site.

bluedevils

In the last 2 days I've noticed a pretty consistent spark knock from our 98 Trooper (just shy of 53,000 miles). It's occurring under typical conditions - when the RPMs are fairly low (2,000 or so) and you press light-to-medium on the gas, the rattling emanates from the engine compartment.

This is a disappointing development. I know that most owners manuals advise that occasional spark knock is not a problem, but I have a hard time believing that this is OK when it was not occurring earlier in the vehicle's life.

What do you guys think - is the spark knock that I'm describing something that may contribute to shortened life of anything on the truck? Is it an indication of any other adverse effects (lower fuel mileage, etc.)?

On our previous Trooper, a '96 that was totaled at 51,000 miles, the same thing occurred around 47-48k miles. The dealer reprogrammed the ECU (or was it the PCM? or are they the same thing?) and the spark knock became less prominent but it was still there.

I know I'm still within the powertrain warranty; should I have the dealer investigate the problem? I worry they might try to charge me on the grounds that something they check is outside the scope of the powertrain warranty.

paisan

Higher octane fuel, just to see if that helps.

The main reason for not doing my own fuild changes is the disposal, and the time to do it.

Yep I was in A^2, but also visited detroit and grand rapids, and was all over the area. I may have seen the Troopas in A^2 though.

-mike

bluedevils

I'm sure that will minimize the occurrence of the spark knock; it did the trick on our 96 Troop. However, I don't think that should be necessary-- this engine is designed to run optimally on 87 octane fuel, and in most cases it does. If I'm running high-octane (92-94) fuel, the same underlying problems/causes will be there even though the spark knock may not be audible. That just doesn't seem right.

paisan, are you saying you don't think it's a problem that the spark knock is occurring? No real potential for damage, etc.?

Yes, changing own fluids can be a hassle but it makes me feel good - the achievement of it, however small it may be - and knowing I did things right. You'd be amazed how much/how many times I spill fluid when I'm doing a simple oil change, though-- I'm thankful for cardboard! Disposal probably isn't too convenient in NYC, either.

paisan

Knock isn't a good thing. I'd think it needs an ECU re-program. You might try diconnecting the battery overnight and re-connecting in the morning, start the car and let it run at idle til it's warmed up, and then drive as you normallly do with a full tank of 87 octane. That should re-set the ecu. It's worked on subies. Also you might try a different brand of 87. I know the subies in 00 don't like Hess 87, but other 87s work fine.

-mike

sdavito

As far as certain brands of gas are concerned, I agree with Parsin - try a different brand. My 2000 Trooper hates Citgo, but runs good on most other brands.

David

armtdm

There is a grease fitting on the draft shaft that is farily obvious if you crawl under and look. Other items you noted, I don't think they are worth the effort.

dchopp

I have said it over and over, that owners manuals will specify that it will run on 87 octane but in the long run 50k miles and above it will start to carbon up and thus comes the spark knock. I have had three beater cars and I currently drive one that has 148k miles (work vehicle) Ford Tempo and the other two had 202k and 181k and neither one ever had a spark knock. Why ? Because these cars where raised on 89 octane and above and I have to climb some pretty steep hills on the way to work in the morning and no knocks. Last fall I purchased a 96 Rodeo ( wife thing) that had 41000 miles on it and the owner told me it was raised on 87 octane fuel. Soon afterwords I had two O-2 sensers go out and they where carboned up pretty bad. I hope the higher octane fuel I use will clean up the rest of them.
DCH

breakor

There are 3 grease fittings on the rear drive shaft. 2 are at the front end and 1 is at the rear. Depending on how lucky you are when you park, you may have to move the vehicle slightly to rotate the drive shaft to be able to see and grease all 3 fittings. FWIW I use a chassis grease containing Molybdenum. I lube these 3 fittings every 3rd oil change. This is probably overkill but given the relative ease of the job it seems worth the effort to me. I remember reading somewhere that Isuzus do not have any factory plugs that need to be removed in order to install greaseable fittings. Therefore unless I am missing something the 3 drive shaft fittings are the only zerks on the newer Troopers.

As for the other lubrication items - I think Isuzu wants us to do things like putting some oil in the door locks and hinges as well as greasing the parking brake and accelerator cables. I doubt many people do these things let alone at the 7500 mile mark.

bluedevils

Where are these deposits building up? How can they be removed? I received some suggestions at itog.com that included the following:

* replace spark plugs

* replace EGR valve (this one sounds familiar, and I'm thinking it might be the best chance for a permanent fix)

* replace O2 sensor (even though not required until 90k miles)

* change to higher-octane or different-brand gas
run fuel injector cleaner (or Chevron's Techroline) through a couple tankfuls

Some responses claimed that some of these fixes would help to remove any carbon deposits that may have been building up. Many also suggested greater fuel economy, smoother running, and increased power.

Your thoughts?

paisan

Well no offense to the ITOG folks, but they are generally a 1st gen trooper group. With the onset of ODBII, you would have a CE light if your EGR valve was bad (as mine was) and it didn't change performance or knock at all. CE light would indicate the O2 sensor as well.

-mike

catmandu

Just got back from three months in the Colorado mountains. Trooper did very well on the 4WD trails. Saw a post about Isuzu maybe not going to build Troopers anymore...whats with this? Good to be back in Arkansas..snow on the mountain tops as we left last week. Want to buy a manuel for our 01 S model. Who makes the best one? Thanks

paisan

I think Helm is the only ones who make a manual.

Glad to hear the truck did well. Glad to see you back.

-mike

bluedevils

Paisan, you're correct that most discussion at ITOG regards older (pre-1992) Troopers. However, there are a few guys who discuss newer Troopers. I'll probably try injector cleaner or higher-octane gas before I start replacing parts like EGR valve, O2 sensor, etc.

fiveharpers

Thanks for the feedback concerning the 7500 mile lube issues

breakor

When I had a similar problem on another vehicle the injector cleaner made a world of difference. I also only had to use the stuff once.

For a commercial on why it is needed check out - http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/nafl/L2_A1_a.htm

armtdm

Is one of the best out there. This is a cheap fix if it works and definitely worth the first try. Don't know if it works but I use Amsoil PI fuel additive on all of my cars and so far never had an injector issue or knocking. But, who knows, may never have had one anyway!

bluedevils

I've heard about 5 comments regarding Chevron's Techron fuel system additive/cleaner. All have been positive. It seems that this (and other good-performing fuel system cleaner additives) is a legitimate product. I always considered fuel system cleaners or fuel injector cleaners to be worthless things that could only gum up your engine (e.g. Prolong), but your feedback has convinced me of their value in helping to clean out a vehicle's fuel system.

bluedevils

I bought a 20 fl. oz. bottle yesterday. 10 bucks! Man, this stuff is expensive-- that's 50 cents per fluid ounce ($64 a gallon!). I'm looking forward to using it in the next couple days and I hope it works.

keepontroopin

???

bluedevils

Bought (Detroit area) at Meijer. Meijer is in several states, headquartered in Michigan. It's a cross between a grocery store and a Target/KMart. They basically have everything a family would need to live on.

Meijer price: 20 fl. oz. $9.99. 12 fl. oz. $5.99. (Same price per fluid ounce)

Checked at Wal-Mart also. My local Wal-Mart had the 12 oz. bottle but not the 20 oz. $5.97.

armtdm

I am totally against additives for oil, they are all snake oil to me. But for fuel, the Techron seems to work and it is much more expensive then the STP, Gunk, etc.etc stuff on the shelf.

bluedevils

In my continuing quest to maintain my vehicle well, last night I drained the ATF in our 98 Trooper again. This time, about 3 3/32 quarts drained from the drain plug. I let the truck drain for about an hour. By that point, it was yielding only one drip every 5-10 seconds so not much more fluid was forthcoming.

I checked the fill plug w/engine running and fairly warm. When I opened the plug, fluid trickled out fairly slowly. My understanding is that this indicates the level was correct.

While adding fluid via fill plug, it began to trickle out of the plug after 2.5 quarts. I was a little confused by this. Perhaps the level before I drained it was a little too high?

Since I'm not even getting half the fluid out by doing this procedure, I think I'll need to pursue other options if I truly want to replace the existing fluid with new fluid.

sdc2

Yeah, it is such a pain to get all the fluid out I plan to go to Jiffy Lube or similar to do a complete fluid swap. This tranny doesn't have a filter, so I don't really want to pull the pan anyway.

I'm almost to 30K, so I will be doing this in the next few months.

breakor

Prompted by your experiences I went back and finally found the article that explained the DIY flush procedure well enough for this non-mechanic to try it. It is post #634 in this forum - (central Apr 30, 2001 5:42pm).

About the only change I made was to buy extra length tubing so that I could sit comfortably and safely away from the car and pump the new fluid back in. I also chocked the wheels and set the parking brake just in case.

I think you should take satisfaction knowing that you got enough new fluid in there to delay a complete flush for several thousand more miles. Granted it was more trouble than you expected and not as much fluid was replaced as you hoped. If you come up with a better DIY method let us know.

bluedevils

I did this yesterday. This was a HUGE mistake!

Last week I drained and refilled the ATF, TOD, front differential, and rear differential fluids in our 98 Trooper. Since I got only 2 quarts of ATF to drain, I tried again yesterday. Only today did I realize that instead of draining the auto trans and refilling it with auto trans fluid, I had drained the rear differential by mistake! I have no idea how I made this mistake, since I had done both procedures just last week. Obviously I wasn't thinking.

Tonight as I was taking some pics underneath the Trooper, I realized my error. I drained the ATF from the rear diffy, refilled with petrol-based 80W90 gear oil, then drove the truck 30 miles. Things felt and sounded fine. Then I drained the rear diffy AGAIN and refilled with 80W90 petrol-based gear oil. Tomorrow I will drain the rear diffy a third time and refill with Mobil1 synthetic gear lubricant (75W90) and a 4 fl. oz. bottle of the limited slip additive.

Hopefully this will thoroughly rectify my error. My wife drove the Trooper about 60 miles today with the ATF in the rear diffy.

Does anyone think I did any serious damage?

bluedevils

And thanks to central for originally posting it!

breakor

While the ATF is not a good thing, my guess is that 60 miles did not do any real damage to the gears. You might have shortened your seal life though. I guess the thing to do is cross your fingers and occasionally check for leaks.

As to your recovery efforts, 3 refills should be more than enough to THOROUGHLY flush out the ATF.

sdc2

How on earth did you ever mistake the rear differential for the transmission??? Truly not trying to make you feel bad, but those two component look nothing alike (other than both being under the vehicle), and are a good 6 feet apart under there...

Thankfully, I doubt if you did any harm to the diff, though you may want to confirm this with an expert.

I feel for you, because changing the diff fluid is a stinky, uncomfortable job (unless you have a hoist) that I would hate to redo as much as you have.

bluedevils

I have no idea how I could have mistaken the rear diffy for the auto trans. I KNOW they look nothing alike, they are nowhere near each other geographically, etc. I somehow got things totally turned around in my head and didn't realize it until the next day.

breakor, thanks for mentioning the seal life. I know I might have done some damage, but I didn't really know what kind of damage it might be. I'll keep an eye out for leaks.

ilit

If you don't hear any unusual noise or vibration from the back or from the diff, any things you didn't hear or feel before you made the mistake, every thing is OK.

If the seal or even the diff are broken within the warranty period, they'll be covered (Just don't mention about your mistake with Isuzu dealerships!). The diff seal at the passenger side on my 99 Trooper got leak and it was covered (I didn't do any thing!). I was disappointed with that because mine had only 20k miles then.

keepontroopin

Rear diff. for ATF ha ha ha ha ;o)

keepontroopin

I think I put oil in the gas tank and gas in where the oil goes under the hood. Sorry everyone I just cannot resist. This is a good example as to why us mechanically UNinclined should pay the boys at Jiffy lube to do this crap. When you start confusing the front of the car with the rear of the car you know it is best left to those who know how to do it.

Blue devils I am curious....do you get stiff necks during highway driving from having to keep your head twisted around to see where you are going out the rear window or in your case windshield.

Once again I am sorry I just couldn't resist. hopefully it at least made you laugh.

bluedevils

your post #1144 DID make me smile. Re: #1145, if a stupid mistake like that can happen to me, the careful owner of the vehicle, then my conclusion is that a stupid mistake is even more likely to be made by a quick lube employee. Maybe not that specific mistake, but something stupid.

My mistake was NOT a matter of me not knowing how to do what I wanted to do. Somehow I just totally got loony in the head for a while.

breakor

If nothing else I can use your story the next time I take some spousal grief for doing something like going to the grocery store and coming back with tools and/or parts from the auto parts store and no groceries. Or, going out to mow the lawn and coming back in having painted the storage room door instead. Or, going out to wash the car and ending up doing an oil change. Etc..

mhiggins2000

I seem to remember a post some time back about fixing a rattle in the rear door (I hate the fact that you can't search these posts!!!).

Does anyone remember the solution?

Thanks in advance.

sbcooke

I have tried several things. Silione, Tri-Flo, Slick 50...what I have found works the best is White Lithium Grease. The rest seem to wear off in a day or so. If not spray grease, I recommend real grease, the kind that comes out like vasoline. The small door has a latch at the bottom and is easy to miss.

It could also be where the latch attaches at the base, It has 2 screws and could need to be moved in or out? Adjusting that could tighten the door connection.