...or at least no call from the sales folks. I may have to call around to some other dealers. I'm still waiting for the craze to calm down on them anyways; I'm sure my Metro will last until that time (if it doesn't I'll have to get something else if there is still a long wait).
I too like the cladding in person (at least on the Salsa red I've seen) which is strange as I hate the Aztek's cladding both in person and in pictures. Somehow it suits the Vibe, like I think it does on the Volvo XC.
The Vibe(/Matrix) is much bigger inside than the Forester/Impreza. The back seat in those small Subies is good for a child, but that's about it, which is surprising. The trunk is quite small too. I guess it has a long hood or something, due to the non-transversely (hmm, double negative?) mounted engine. This is too bad, as the engine and drivetrain are nice if you want AWD but they are practically 2-seaters IMO. For the price including AWD they are a good deal too, but just too small (I don't need something the size and price of the Legacy/Outback for a second vehicle).
Now that the Vibe has officially started production at the NUMMI plant, has production of the Chevy Prizm stopped yet? The local Chevy dealer by me still has a good supply of Prizms left on the lot. Some people I know just purchased two new Prizms, so I would assume that GM is still making them.
zircon : Tup is right, GM only owns 20% of Subaru though I guess they could change like it did for Suzuki (up to 49% now). Subaru AWD technology will find it's way into GM cars now though which is all good.
jrosasmc : No more Prizm production. Must be old stock. Probably get a good deal though!
Hardly consider myself a world class negotiator but this is what I did and it seemed to work. I e-mailed perhaps 12 local dealers with what I needed and asked how little could they sell the car for. Got some back with MSRP, one at 700 under and one at 600 under. Talked to the salesperson, said I'd buy when the car got to what I could afford (in my case 19000) first he balked but called back 20 minutes later with the deal. I felt I could have received even a bigger discount if I was more stubborn but am happy with the price. I think ordering is not bad for the dealers because they order the car, you pick it up, they get paid and the car never sits on the lot. Easy and clean deal for them.
Dealer in Canada indicated that it would take 8 weeks to deliver from the build date. So if GM officially started production at the NUMMI plant accdg to jrosasmc then those who ordered here according to their specifications would probably get it towards the latter weeks of May.
vonnyvonce, if you don't have a trade in, negotiating is pretty straightforward. Having a trade in causes problems if you order a car. They want you to put money down, but won't guarantee your trade in value. I don't like that at all.
Also, too many people focus only on negotiating the price of the new car, and often get completely screwed on their trade in. It's easy to get a deal when you're letting them steal your old car. Obviously, you lose some money trading a car in in the first place, but it's so much easier than selling it yourself.
I partially disagree about getting deals ordering a car. Dealers are anxious to get rid of the cars that are on their lot and are more apt to deal on them. With the Vibe there isn't a huge amount of different options, so I think you shouldn't have too much of a problem finding the one you want. I'm much more impatient than I am picky, so I would never want to wait for an order.
I went to a no haggle place and drove a Vibe GT. Their no haggle price was MSRP and they said that's what they're getting for them because it's new and in demand. However, they did say that since it was the last day of the month, they were willing to deal a little.
I was surprised too that power locks and windows weren't standard. The real kicker is that they throw in cruise control and then have you pay over $1000 for it. I just don't get it... standard air conditioning but not locks and windows.
I also got a "the price set in stone" spiel from my local Pontiac dealer. Needless to say I look up another one in my area. I've started looking at other comparable cars, namely the VW Golf. Anyone have any thoughts on them?
I have never purchased a car in its first year of release before so I have no clue as to whether or not Ponitac will offer any cash back or APR incentives on the vibe this year. Anyone know?
Does anyone know when the Vibe will be readily available on the lots?
I was looking for a mid-sized SUV, but I found the Vibe and am hooked. Now I just need to go see it in person. If it is as nice in person as it seems to be from the photos and from the reviews, then I hope to purchase one in June.
Whether or not Pontiac will offer cash back or incentives on Vibe (or any other car they sell) depends on whether or not they can sell the cars without them. The name of the game is profit. If they can sell the Vibes without giving money back or off, they will. If they can't, they will do what it takes to make the most (or lose the least) money, as they see it. It's really that simple.
Most first year cars sell out to people who just 'have to have one.' So incentives are rare on new models.
As a matter of fact, the Vibe is selling better than the Matrix in this area, which is surprising. The Toyota dealer has had the same 4 Matrices in stock for the past couple weeks..they aren't moving they say (Maybe because they also sell Subaru Imprezas for the same price). But the Pontiac dealer can't keep Vibes in stock. Luckily, these guys are COMPARITIVELY honest...they're not marking it up past MSRP, except for state tax.
Actually, I find the base Vibe to be a good setup for a commuter-car. If just one person uses the vehicle then power locks aren't that useful. Base Vibe with 5-speed doesn't really need cruise (kind of werid with a stick IMO). Power windows are nice but personally I prefer AC as I can hear the radio better than with the wind howling through the open windows. So I think the base model is decent for a commuter. The base Matrix, OTOH, without AC is a real stripper and not that useful to most people.
Still, I'll probably get the power package when I buy mine, likely with the security system and alloy wheels if I order it (have to see the steels with covers in person first, but liked the alloys I saw).
Re: the VW Golf. Up here, the Golf costs more with a much less powerful engine. E.g. base GL with 115hp 2.0L engine with optional 4 doors, AM/FM/Casette (casette in 2002!) and optional AC is $21580. The base Vibe with freight up here is $20500 so you save about a grand on this similarly equipped vehicle (base has 4 doors and AC already). Other features are a toss up with cruise and alarm standard in GL Golf but power mirrors and CD standard in Vibe. It seems you have to move up to the GLS to get power windows on the Golf in Canada, which is $23000 and still only has casette. So I think the Vibe is a better deal, and GM card earnings seal it. I much prefer the styling of the Vibe too. In the states, the price may be closer or the Golf may be cheaper.
clyde2000 : Try getting a price from http://www.autobytel.ca. You have to get the power package, it's well worth it. You get keyless entry with it also.
"was surprised too that power locks and windows weren't standard. The real kicker is that they throw in cruise control and then have you pay over $1000 for it. I just don't get it... standard air conditioning but not locks and windows."
Actually the Vibe's power package has an instant $400.00 credit here in the US. So in reality you end up paying $600.00 for power windows, locks, cruise control and Keyless entry. Fair enough IMO.
If you don't believe me, just go to:
www.gmbuypower.com
And do a search on Vibes in current dealer inventory. The $1000.00 power package has an instant $400.00 credit.
Also keep in mind that the Vibe is being marketed to young folks, proably still in College with limited $$$ resources. If they or their parents can afford to buy them a new Vibe, GM is giving them the option to either get a basic model with crank windows or jump up to a model with power everything. The name of the game is affordability in the entry level market to keep prices relatively low.
hpulley4: The Golf is more expensive, but it seems like you get more (I was thinking about the GLS model). If it wasn't for the GM Card dollars (~$1100 so far) and Grad rebate ($1000), I just might decide on the Golf.
dindak: I will try autobytel, they don't have the Vibe listed yet; they do have the Matrix though so I guess the Vibe will on soon. Anyone have any experience using autobytel or a similar service?
teo: In Canada, the power package is $1355 with no credit or rebate that I know of.
I used Autobytel, but didn't buy from the dealer as he was an hour from my home and I didn't have time to drive up there. It's a good service though and the price given was decent.
If you're buying in canada, it's worth checking the automobile protection assoc. (apa.ca), where you can pay for invoice costs of various models, $25 a pop. Well worth it for the money you can save by negotiating. Don't know if they will have the vibe yet, but they could tell you if you called.
Add my name to the list of satisfied Vibe owners. I just deliver of a Shadow colored, FWD 4, 5 speed Manual. I got the Moon & Tunes package along with the Power Package. In addition, had the windows tinted with cool chrome. The car is a real looker. My sale price was $17300 using a GM Supplier discount before trade-in. I love the car. This is second GM for me within a 12 month period. I also have a Majestic Red Trailblazer (LT) that my loves. My hat off to GM.
Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: TWO-WHEEL DRIVE (2WD) PASSENGER VEHICLES. IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE BOLT(S) TO BE LOOSE THAT JOIN THE REAR BRAKE AND HUB ASSEMBLY TO THE REAR AXLE CARRIER DUE TO INSUFFICIENT TIGHTENING DURING THE ASSEMBLY PROCESS.
Consequence Summary: IF THE VEHICLE IS CONTINUOUSLY OPERATED IN THIS CONDITION, ONE OR MORE OF THE FOUR BOLTS COULD COME LOOSE, CAUSING AN ABNORMAL NOISE FROM THE REAR AXLE AREA. IN THE EVENT THAT ALL FOUR BOLTS LOOSEN COMPLETELY, SEPARATION OF THE REAR BRAKE AND HUB ASSEMBLY FROM THE REAR AXLE CARRIER COULD OCCUR, WHICH, IN THE WORST CASE, COULD LEAD TO A LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL.
Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL PROPERLY TIGHTEN THE BOLTS. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN MARCH 12, 2002. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT PONTIAC AT 1-800-762-2737.
Anyone know if Moon/Tunes cd player will read CD-RW's?
Also follow up to daytime running lights. I personally find them unneccesary. As I recall much the same with 3rd brake lights, 3rd brake lights seemed to lessen the chance of rear end collisions until every car had them and then they no longer stood out. DRL waste fuel, someone totaled it up that if every car had them an enormous amount of fuel would be used, they probably shorten the life of headlight bulbs and I feel add little to safety,never had them, never been in a accident where they would have helped.
I'm not a huge fan of DRL's, but to say they use up extra fuel is not vaild. The engine is using power to turn the alternator all the time, not just when it's generating power. Regardless, it would be a neglibible amount anyway. Whoever says it would consume an enormous amount of fuel is either misrepresenting facts to make a point or is extremely poor at math. The fact that gas guzzling SUV's are so popular is 100 times more important in the grand scheme of things.
As for using up headlight bulbs, the DRL's use the high beam at partial brightness, so it's not going to use up your low beam. I can't think of anytime where my high beam burned out. As I said, I'm not a fan of DRL's. I think they're unnecessary and that's a good enough reason for me. I also think they cause pedestrians, cyclists, etc to stand out less.
As for the third brake light, I like that at night because it goes from off to on as opposed to the rear lights where they're on and just get brighter. Don't know if it really helps. I haven't rear ended anybody.
No question gas guzzling fuel mileage is more important. My point was someone calculated the fuel costs for 1 year if EVERY car had DRL and my recollection was it was a significant amount.
The contention that they don't use fuel is not valid. Sure the alternator is always spinning but it's the load on the alternator that contributes to the increase in fuel consumption. Anytime any electrical equipment is in use more (perhaps not much) but more fuel is consumed.
I'm not against 3rd brake lights just pointing out that when everyone gets used to them they offer less safety value.
Thanks montanafan, That's is a lot of gas, a drop in the bucket compared to all we us but not inconsequential. No question we don't need to be making OPEC any richer.
BTW what's the latest on your Vibe search in SE New England.
All these calculations are assuming, however, that the lights are going to put an additional load on the car's alternator. The truth is that an alternator in general produces far more electrical power than the car uses up with its electrical systems. The rest of the energy produced just ends up going to waste, therefore the lights are just causing less electrical energy to be wasted, and there is no overall consequence, positive or negative.
Of course if everycar in Amercia was a Vibe with the 200 Watt Stereo, we would use 812,000,000 gallons of extra gas. The calculations were just how much energy it would take to light the lights. It dosen't get into the alternator issues. And with the average age of car on the road somewhere in the nine year range, it would take almost 20 years for "every" car in America to have DRLs. And since not all DRL systems use the headlights...........
Wife is home with the kids for April School Vacation and promised me to drive a Vibe. Of course she promised her Mom to paint & paper her dinning room, promised my seven year old she can go to Art Camp during the four mornings, promised my Mom to drive her to dialysis, and there is that Nora Roberts hardcover on the night stand.
Referring to some of the posts above, how many people do you know of who can tell you what their monthly payment is but can't tell you how much they are paying for the car? Or even how much the purchase price was?
The purpose of the 3rd or high mounted brake light is so that you can see car's brake lights through the windows of the car in front of you (providing it's not a truck). This is so you can respond faster. It's not just an extra brake light.
The purpose of DRL's are to make vehicles more noticeable especially on a grey day (or a dark vehicle against a grey road). You cannot tell me that they don't help you notice them faster.
Instead of calculating how much more fuel is consumed by having DRL's, put your time to better use by campaigning to take oversized, dangerous to the rest of us, gas guzzling, polluting, large SUV's off the road. Or some other more worthy cause.
I was against DRLs when they were mandated in 1990 here, but now I absolutely support them. There is no doubt a car is more visible with them than with out and the cost of 1-2 gallons a year is well worth the price of avoiding even one accident.
Rather than worrying about a couple of gallons, people who don't need them should stop driving those dumb monster SUVs. The gas saved even from a small percentage decline in those would more than offset DRL consumption.
Well, what about the non gray days? Seems ludicrous to be running headlights during the day in a place like Phoenix. Sure there may be benefits, but I don't like the if-then logic everyone seems to love involving safety. If it makes us safer, then it must be done.
If I came up with a plan that mandated that all cars must be painted neon pink, you can't tell me that cars wouldn't be more noticeable.
For me it's mostly a "where do you draw the line?" issue. Also, by making cars more noticeable, you make pedestrians less noticeable.
DRLs work great in bright sunshine. When the sun is blinding you you can see a car much better with the DRLs on. I understand you as your thoughts were mine 10 years ago. DRLs make a car more visible regardless of the conditions and it is not the same as bright colored car, trust me.
BTW. Pedestrians are not less visible and they will see you better. Where do you get that idea from?
DRL's. I used to be more anti-drl than I am now. They are a fairly harmless way of making a vehicle a little more visible. I do wish they used the orange parking lights in more of them (like on the Century/Regal and Intrigue) so it doesn't look like someone is driving around with their high beams on.
3rd Brake Lights - I find these extremely valuable at night. I have misjudged cars stopping at night without them because I am used to seeing them. When the running lights are on and someone brakes, just brightening those same bulbs isn't always completely useable.
Sales numbers-Canada. Not many Vibes... maybe they are concentrating on stocking US dealers with Vibes before Canadian dealers? The Pontiac dealers around here have a decent supply of Vibes, more than the local Toyota dealers have of Matrix.
or milk, perhaps vanilla chai : (hint orangelebaron) Did not mean to keep you up at night over DRL. Point was I don't care much for them and not sure if their use was studied scientifically they would have any real value. Same with 3rd brake lights.
Also not sure about the alternator stuff. Think an alternator makes "juice" equal to the load placed on it. No load, no "juice" Similar to a generator. I have one, it idles if no load and comes up to speed with a load. Without knowing for sure I still think electrical use in a car equals increased fuel consumption.
Relative to the aircraft carrier sized SUVs and fuel consumption. All my cars are 4 cyls. Economy matters to me. I sleep well at night guilt free. If I needed something bigger I guess I'd have it but don't so Vibe is fine.
...in Norway and/or Sweden if not others and they show small but measurable decreases in the numbers of accidents. You can compare medical costs to gasoline costs if you want but human suffering is expensive too, both in the tangible insurance settlements and in actual suffering.
The best way to improve car safety is to avoid accidents and being seen helps that. Personally, I'd rather avoid an accident than rely on crumple zones and airbags. Being seen first is even better than being seen late and having to rely on your brakes. In Canada they are mandatory now, as are the 3rd brake light and front-seat air bags.
I think the 3rd brake light is especially effective on hatchbacks, minivans, SUVs and other tall vehicles where the light is very high up.
Comments
I too like the cladding in person (at least on the Salsa red I've seen) which is strange as I hate the Aztek's cladding both in person and in pictures. Somehow it suits the Vibe, like I think it does on the Volvo XC.
The Vibe(/Matrix) is much bigger inside than the Forester/Impreza. The back seat in those small Subies is good for a child, but that's about it, which is surprising. The trunk is quite small too. I guess it has a long hood or something, due to the non-transversely (hmm, double negative?) mounted engine. This is too bad, as the engine and drivetrain are nice if you want AWD but they are practically 2-seaters IMO. For the price including AWD they are a good deal too, but just too small (I don't need something the size and price of the Legacy/Outback for a second vehicle).
jrosasmc : No more Prizm production. Must be old stock. Probably get a good deal though!
Hardly consider myself a world class negotiator but this is what I did and it seemed to work. I e-mailed perhaps 12 local dealers with what I needed and asked how little could they sell the car for. Got some back with MSRP, one at 700 under and one at 600 under. Talked to the salesperson, said I'd buy when the car got to what I could afford (in my case 19000) first he balked but called back 20 minutes later with the deal.
I felt I could have received even a bigger discount if I was more stubborn but am happy with the price. I think ordering is not bad for the dealers because they order the car, you pick it up, they get paid and the car never sits on the lot. Easy and clean deal for them.
- Mike
hpulley : Actually I think they only own 40% of Suzuki and 49% of Isuzu. I remember GM doubling their stake from around 20% a year or two ago.
Having a trade in causes problems if you order a car. They want you to put money down,
but won't guarantee your trade in value. I don't like that at all.
Also, too many people focus only on negotiating the price of the new car, and
often get completely screwed on their trade in. It's easy to get a deal when you're letting them steal your old car. Obviously, you lose some money trading a car in in the first place, but it's so much easier than selling it yourself.
I partially disagree about getting deals ordering a car. Dealers are anxious to get rid of the cars that are on their lot and are more apt to deal on them. With the Vibe there isn't a huge amount of different options, so I think you shouldn't have too much of a problem finding the one you want. I'm much more impatient than I am picky, so I would never want to wait for an order.
I went to a no haggle place and drove a Vibe GT. Their no haggle price was MSRP and they said that's what they're getting for them because it's new and in demand. However, they did say that since it was the last day of the month, they were willing to deal a little.
I also got a "the price set in stone" spiel from my local Pontiac dealer. Needless to say I look up another one in my area. I've started looking at other comparable cars, namely the VW Golf. Anyone have any thoughts on them?
Does anyone know when the Vibe will be readily available on the lots?
I was looking for a mid-sized SUV, but I found the Vibe and am hooked. Now I just need to go see it in person. If it is as nice in person as it seems to be from the photos and from the reviews, then I hope to purchase one in June.
Whether or not Pontiac will offer cash back or incentives on Vibe (or any other car they sell) depends on whether or not they can sell the cars without them. The name of the game is profit. If they can sell the Vibes without giving money back or off, they will. If they can't, they will do what it takes to make the most (or lose the least) money, as they see it. It's really that simple.
Most first year cars sell out to people who just 'have to have one.' So incentives are rare on new models.
Still, I'll probably get the power package when I buy mine, likely with the security system and alloy wheels if I order it (have to see the steels with covers in person first, but liked the alloys I saw).
Re: the VW Golf. Up here, the Golf costs more with a much less powerful engine. E.g. base GL with 115hp 2.0L engine with optional 4 doors, AM/FM/Casette (casette in 2002!) and optional AC is $21580. The base Vibe with freight up here is $20500 so you save about a grand on this similarly equipped vehicle (base has 4 doors and AC already). Other features are a toss up with cruise and alarm standard in GL Golf but power mirrors and CD standard in Vibe. It seems you have to move up to the GLS to get power windows on the Golf in Canada, which is $23000 and still only has casette. So I think the Vibe is a better deal, and GM card earnings seal it. I much prefer the styling of the Vibe too. In the states, the price may be closer or the Golf may be cheaper.
My guess is no as it's probably one system that operates it all.
Actually the Vibe's power package has an instant $400.00 credit here in the US. So in reality you end up paying $600.00 for power windows, locks, cruise control and Keyless entry. Fair enough IMO.
If you don't believe me, just go to:
www.gmbuypower.com
And do a search on Vibes in current dealer inventory. The $1000.00 power package has an instant $400.00 credit.
Also keep in mind that the Vibe is being marketed to young folks, proably still in College with limited $$$ resources. If they or their parents can afford to buy them a new Vibe, GM is giving them the option to either get a basic model with crank windows or jump up to a model with power everything. The name of the game is affordability in the entry level market to keep prices relatively low.
dindak: I will try autobytel, they don't have the Vibe listed yet; they do have the Matrix though so I guess the Vibe will on soon. Anyone have any experience using autobytel or a similar service?
teo: In Canada, the power package is $1355 with no credit or rebate that I know of.
Another one to try is http://cars4u.com
Check out the Matrix thread.
Make: PONTIAC
Model: VIBE
Year: 2003
NHTSA Campaign ID Number: 02V074002
Defect Summary:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: TWO-WHEEL DRIVE (2WD) PASSENGER VEHICLES. IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE BOLT(S) TO BE LOOSE THAT JOIN THE REAR BRAKE AND HUB ASSEMBLY TO THE REAR AXLE CARRIER DUE TO INSUFFICIENT TIGHTENING DURING THE ASSEMBLY PROCESS.
Consequence Summary:
IF THE VEHICLE IS CONTINUOUSLY OPERATED IN THIS CONDITION, ONE OR MORE OF THE FOUR BOLTS COULD COME LOOSE, CAUSING AN ABNORMAL NOISE FROM THE REAR AXLE AREA. IN THE EVENT THAT ALL FOUR BOLTS LOOSEN COMPLETELY, SEPARATION OF THE REAR BRAKE AND HUB ASSEMBLY FROM THE REAR AXLE CARRIER COULD OCCUR, WHICH, IN THE WORST CASE, COULD LEAD TO A LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL.
Corrective Summary:
DEALERS WILL PROPERLY TIGHTEN THE BOLTS. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN MARCH 12, 2002. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT PONTIAC AT 1-800-762-2737.
Seems strange that it would affect corollas in Canada and Vibes in the US.
Also follow up to daytime running lights. I personally find them unneccesary. As I recall much the same with 3rd brake lights, 3rd brake lights seemed to lessen the chance of rear end collisions until every car had them and then they no longer stood out. DRL waste fuel, someone totaled it up that if every car had them an enormous amount of fuel would be used, they probably shorten the life of headlight bulbs and I feel add little to safety,never had them, never been in a accident where they would have helped.
Isn't the 2003 Corolla built in Cambridge?
As for using up headlight bulbs, the DRL's use the high beam at partial brightness, so it's not going to use up your low beam. I can't think of anytime where my high beam burned out. As I said, I'm not a fan of DRL's. I think they're unnecessary and that's a good enough reason for me. I also think they cause pedestrians, cyclists, etc to stand out less.
As for the third brake light, I like that at night because it goes from off to on as opposed to the rear lights where they're on and just get brighter. Don't know if it really helps. I haven't rear ended anybody.
The contention that they don't use fuel is not valid. Sure the alternator is always spinning but it's the load on the alternator that contributes to the increase in fuel consumption. Anytime any electrical equipment is in use more (perhaps not much) but more fuel is consumed.
I'm not against 3rd brake lights just pointing out that when everyone gets used to them they offer less safety value.
BTW what's the latest on your Vibe search in SE New England.
Wife is home with the kids for April School Vacation and promised me to drive a Vibe. Of course she promised her Mom to paint & paper her dinning room, promised my seven year old she can go to Art Camp during the four mornings, promised my Mom to drive her to dialysis, and there is that Nora Roberts hardcover on the night stand.
The purpose of DRL's are to make vehicles more noticeable especially on a grey day (or a dark vehicle against a grey road). You cannot tell me that they don't help you notice them faster.
Instead of calculating how much more fuel is consumed by having DRL's, put your time to better use by campaigning to take oversized, dangerous to the rest of us, gas guzzling, polluting, large SUV's off the road. Or some other more worthy cause.
Rather than worrying about a couple of gallons, people who don't need them should stop driving those dumb monster SUVs. The gas saved even from a small percentage decline in those would more than offset DRL consumption.
Seems ludicrous to be running headlights during the day in a place like Phoenix.
Sure there may be benefits, but I don't like the if-then logic everyone seems to love involving safety. If it makes us safer, then it must be done.
If I came up with a plan that mandated that all cars must be painted neon pink, you can't tell me that cars wouldn't be more noticeable.
For me it's mostly a "where do you draw the line?"
issue. Also, by making cars more noticeable, you make pedestrians less noticeable.
BTW. Pedestrians are not less visible and they will see you better. Where do you get that idea from?
Suzuki Aerio — 118
Pontiac Vibe — 43
3rd Brake Lights - I find these extremely valuable at night. I have misjudged cars stopping at night without them because I am used to seeing them. When the running lights are on and someone brakes, just brightening those same bulbs isn't always completely useable.
Sales numbers-Canada. Not many Vibes... maybe they are concentrating on stocking US dealers with Vibes before Canadian dealers? The Pontiac dealers around here have a decent supply of Vibes, more than the local Toyota dealers have of Matrix.
Also not sure about the alternator stuff. Think an alternator makes "juice" equal to the load placed on it. No load, no "juice" Similar to a generator. I have one, it idles if no load and comes up to speed with a load. Without knowing for sure I still think electrical use in a car equals increased fuel consumption.
Relative to the aircraft carrier sized SUVs and fuel consumption. All my cars are 4 cyls. Economy matters to me. I sleep well at night guilt free. If I needed something bigger I guess I'd have it but don't so Vibe is fine.
The best way to improve car safety is to avoid accidents and being seen helps that. Personally, I'd rather avoid an accident than rely on crumple zones and airbags. Being seen first is even better than being seen late and having to rely on your brakes. In Canada they are mandatory now, as are the 3rd brake light and front-seat air bags.
I think the 3rd brake light is especially effective on hatchbacks, minivans, SUVs and other tall vehicles where the light is very high up.