Pontiac Vibe

johnclineii

You are right, but you are interested in cars FAR more than most of the public. Your mere reading of reviews and posting here proves that. The AVERAGE buyer won't have a clue. Still, you are right, even those who do may still not care. People are strange beings, that is what makes watching them (and being one) such fun!

Hmmmm, in another of the forums here at Edmunds there is a 'rule,' so here goes:

VIBE!

dindak

I have met people that didn't know Buick was part of GM. There is a large segment of the population that only care about a car getting them from A to B, nothing else. I'm sure also they aren't just going to tell you at a Toyota or Pontiac dealer that there is a mechanical twin at the other. I'll bet a lot of people buying these cars will have no idea, especially since they look so different.

golfboy

A vehicle is a HUGE purchase for almost everyone. Next to a house, it's the most expensive thing any of us will purchase in our lifetimes. Having said that, any smart consumer will want to get as much for their money as possible.

I just don't think people can afford to be as ignorant as people say they are. Any smart consumer will compare products to make sure s/he will be getting the most for their hard-earned dollar. I think comparing consumer electronics is much more difficult than comparing cars. There's just too much information out there for someone to be that clueless.

moparbad

As the past owner of two Prizm's (a 95 Geo and 99 Chevy) I can say from experience that not only do most people not recognize the fact that GM sells Toyota twins, they often will not believe that the the motor is a Toyota motor even if the two cars are side by side. Pontiac and Toyota buyers are for the most part very different consumers.
In the past you could save money by buying a GM badged Toyota, now the Toyota is less expensive. Unless you can get an incentive or have a GM Card I see no advantage whatsoever in the buying a Vibe. The Matrix even offers an auto trans. with the 180HP motor where the Vibe does not.

joelis

I gaurantee you that the majority of people out there will have no clue that these two cars are the same. Car enthusiasts like ourselves are in a distinct minority.

Who is going tell the average person coming in to their regular Pontiac dealership who is interested in a Vibe that there is a twin over at Toyota they may be interested in? Certainly not the sales staff. Certainly not the commercials who are being paid by one or the other. Not that many people read magazines or reviews either.

There are a lot of ignorant people out there with a little money to burn in their pocket and have the blinders on for their loyal car brand only. They see a Vibe commercial and that is all that they need...

dindak

Although I think people are looking at things more closely these day, the vast majority still do not do much research in buying a car. Looking at just my relatives and friends as examples, most of them do very little. My mother in law bought the first car she looked at on the first day with no further test drives of other makes. Unbelievable.

revka

Check out the new discussion: Matrix & Vibe Enthusiasts - Compare Notes. For future reference, you'll find a direct link to this discussion in the Helpful Links on the left side of the page. ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards

petl

Then, there are some who research until the cows come home and never buy anything. These are usually your self proclaimed experts.

maynardf1

Before getting a vue recently, I got a kick out of some of the "reviews" I read on epinions, which start with: "This review is based on a test drive I took on my lunch break and three articles I read."
Thanks a lot Pulitzer.

andil1

I've been monitoring the Vibe inventories in my area, and they don't seem to have changed much over a 4-week period. (I haven't even seen one on the road yet.) I finally had the chance yesterday to nose around a dealer lot when it was closed and found three out front--2 awd and one GT. I was surprised to see one that had a black plastic cap missing off the roof rack--an end piece that covers the bolts. Wonder if it came from the factory that way? There are bound to be incentives soon if this initial inventory doesn't start selling soon.

zircon2

Anybody see Vibes on the road or moving off the dealer's lot? I really hope Pontiac does well with this car, but price does seem to high. They have spent a lot of $$ in advance publicity and media PR - like the cross-Canada rally.

I guess lots of people just go to a lot and buy the first vehicle they're shown, but it is still pretty hard to believe. I think my sister just bought a Sunfire that way (so much for the suggestion to look at the Protege).

If they read the '02 Consumer Report auto issue, which granted they probably don't, they would see the 1st sentence of the Vibe's description relates it to its Toyo mechanical twin.

If dealers have only 1-3, will they sell them off the lot before geting more or will they beg the purchaser to take delivery in a week or whatever it takes to get new ones. If the latter, it may explain why the dealer in my area still has his base and GT after 2 weeks.

hpulley4

until they get more, at least around here. A factory order was strongly suggested after my test drive. I've told them to give me a call if one is delivered in blue, or with premium speakers so I can see the colour and hear the upscale speakers but I haven't heard anything from them. Sounds like serious undersupply problems. Some people are going to buy something else as they won't want to wait 2-3 months or more for their car.

OTOH, I see a few Matrices on the road every day to and from work with real (non-dealer) plates.

dindak

So far I have seen 1 Vibe and 2 Matrix on the road. The Vibe has been parked in my office lot a few times over the past 2 weeks. Local dealer still only has 1 and the sales lady called me yesterday and said it would be for sale very soon when more stock comes in. She also told me residuals on leases is going down April first but that she could lock me in before that if I ordered one.

npgmbr

Was really excited. Yesterday I received a full brochure from Pontiac finally. Does anyone know why GM is taking so long to get the Vibe up and running on the GM Buy Power site?

chmeeee

The Vibe is up on the Buy Power website, it just doesnt say so on the vibe site. If you do to www.gmbuypower.com, you can build your own 2003 Pontiac Vibe.

npgmbr

Thanks for the info dude.

I must admit that I initially was going to buy the Ford Escape, but then heard about the Jeep Liberty so I waited around for that. And in the process of waiting I heard about the release of the Vue and Vibe, and thought I could wait a little longer.

After seeing the Liberty, Vue & Vibe this year at the Washington Auto Show I decided I needed to get specs but sorta counted the Vibe out but only because of its size.

The Liberty despite how cute it is still leaves much to be desired. Fuel milage sucks, and little things like the front passenger seat doesnt fold down like the Vue. On top of that, the rear seats in the Liberty dont fold flat at all. The rear seats in the Vue recline too.

Unfortunately, the Vue offers a poor choice in colors and when stacked against the others with the same options its price goes above 26k which is my spending limit. Most disappointing is that I wanted to get the Vue with a V6 engine and standard transmission but its not offered.

So now, Im back to the Vibe and Its size does not seem to be such an issue anymore. I had wanted to move up to a larger vehicle but after thinking about my current vehicle a Chevy Tracker, and how often I am in it alone I think that the Vibe is the most sensible choice for me. There is a dealer just a few blocks from my apartment. Im sure Ill be strolling over there soon.

Be well,
NPGMBR

shadowsurfer

I am not sure if anyone has seen this. Click on the link below to get a production update for General Motors. They just show you the est. lead times for various GM vehicles. Pontiac Vibe is at the bottom of the table.

http://www.donlen.com/Whats_New/new_production_cars_gm.html

joelis

dindak wrote: "sales lady called me ... told me residuals on leases is going down April first but that she could lock me in before that if I ordered one"

ha ha. Sales pressure attempt. Now there is a shock.

I hope you told her that if anything, the residual will go up on this car next month due to the current numbers on its twin (if she even knows what a Matrix is...).

dindak

joelis : She is a very aggressive sales lady. When I tested the Vibe she was all ready when we got back to write up the papers. Don't worry, I know all the tricks.

scott31

Don't forget to look at the Matrix. Same car, but much cheaper than the Vibe.

zircon2

Boy, that will be a real leap from the Tracker to the Vibe. Tracker will allow you to go offroad but seems to be way behind the market today. Not much power either. Go Vibe for a change of pace.

dindak

It's not "much cheaper", it's a little cheaper and the Vibe comes with extra goodies not available on the Matrix.

montanafan

Don't pick on scott31 for his inaccurate price comparison, left over from his original XRS order vs a GT. The MSRPs of a Matrix XR and Vibe can be very close. He has found a Toyota dealer that will sell the Matrix at a very attractive "costco" discount. While the dealers set selling price and it will differ it each situation, MSRP is close as you point out. The NUMMI plant underwent $220 Million in updates for the Vibe that were not required for the Matrix plant. The Matrix estimated build is almost 50% greater then the Vibe. Which if my college economics teachers are not reading, means that the fixed costs of development and production can be spread over a larger group of cars. And that is before figuring in 200,000 Corollas. He could be worse, he could be one of the posters who say that the local dealers have dozens of Vibes that are not selling and its another Aztek, or picking on it for its Volvo XC cladding looks.

vonnyvonce

What's the latest on your Vibe search. May be headed out today to buy if I could only make up my mind as to what I want. It was much simplier years ago when for me the list of good cars was much shorter.

npgmbr

Thanks Scott, but honestly I really dont like the outside look of the Matrix. It's just down-right ugly to me. Besides, despite the fact that they are basically the same car I would try to stay with the domestic brand unless it was just butt ugly.

Zircon2 - Yes its a step from a 2 dr, 95 horse power, convertible Tracker. But I love my Tracker. Its a fun vehicle but just too light. Scary sometimes when the wind is blowing hard. But there is nothing like riding in a convertible in the summer with the top down.

But then I went to the Tracker from a Baretta GT which I also loved. It really ticked me off when Chevy killed it because I wanted to get another one.

joelis

My wife and I took a Vibe GT and a Vibe AWD for test drives today. (both were monotone paint)

They sure look bigger in the showroom than what they actually are on the inside when you are on the road driving one. Although the size isn't the biggest issue - its the lack of performance.

That powertrain is really pitiful. I call BS on the 180hp rating. Obviously I didn't want to run a new one with only 8 miles on it up past the 6000rpm point, but even so, how often do you really want to get it up there with all the whiny engine noise it gives you at those high RPMs anyway. It gets really annoying. My old 97 Grand AM GT 4 cyl 5 spd had MUCH more power than this thing.

Also, the GT's shifter is really junky. It really feels like you are going to break something each time you shift. And when gearing down from 2nd to 1st, it will let you go right into Reverse with only a little 'beep' to tell you that you just chipped some gear teeth. GRRR!

Also, the steering wheel and shifter are WAY TOO FAR FORWARD to get any comfort with, especially anyone who is 6ft or bigger and needs the seat back further.

The AWD with Auto was not much different, although, for those of you who are still thinking of buying one, don't waste your money on the GT. Might as well get the AWD for the same money and get 5 mpg more too. I really couldn't tell a difference in performance between the two engines.

Sorry guys, I really hoped this would work out for us, but Pontiac screwed up again. This time they made a car LOOK GOOD, but perform like a piece of crap.

And, NO, I'm not comparing it to my Vette, since I have not driven that since I put it in winter storage 5 months ago.

dindak

I mentioned performance was not great before, and you are confirming it. Pontiac didn't screw up, it's all Toyota under the skin. Like I said, the 2.2L GM Ecotec would be a much better choice for this car. FWD base model with auto is what you should have tried, probably the best model for the buck. Still considering it.

Tup

Actually, I would say...from experience.... that you can get the best performance out of the base engine with the 5 speed. The 5 speed is a great working tranny and allows you better control over the engine performance. Now that the breakin period is up I can push it more and while I won't be entering a rally or race anytime soon, I'm not disappointed with the performance. Perhaps it's because the vehicle that filled this role for the last 9 yrs was a 93 Mazda MX3 which had only 100hp (I think). We paid 4000.00 more for the Matrix (9 yrs later) but yet we get A/C, keyless entry, dual airbags, more hp, cd player, tons more room, outside temp reading, etc etc. So comparing the two the Matrix shines. I think perhaps people have some unrealistic expectations when it comes to performance. As a commuter vehicle, it gets great gas mileage and has decent comfort, performance, utility and presumably reliablility. Sure if you're going down the highway and need to pass, you might have to gear down to do it (thus the advantage of the 5 speed.)

I do like the fact that we have a more base vehicle and there are much more expensive versions out there. If people hear about AWD models and 180 HP models then the uneducated look at your vehicle and perhaps elevate it's status. It also helps in resale values.

joelis

TUP - I agree that if you look at it strictly from an Economy standpoint, then your expectations are set correctly and it will work for you.

When they advertise this thing, they should do just that - call it an economy compact - don't call it a sports wagon and give it a GT version with a 6spd. That is the biggest farce of advertising I have seen in a long time, and its REALLY going to backfire on Pontiac.

You said "I think perhaps people have some unrealistic expectations when it comes to performance". Of course people are going to have high expectations when they hear about a "6 spd GT with 180hp".

I think a Grand AM 4cyl has about 150hp or so, and they have much more get up and go than this, so current Grand Am owners, for instance, will be looking at brand loyalty and the Vibe, and be really disappointed with the result.

"Sure if you're going down the highway and need to pass, you might have to gear down to do it..."

Ha Ha - I think you are going to need patience and have to wait for a long downhill slope in the road... especially with the Auto.

All I am saying is "set your expectations correctly". Think Economy Compact and you might be ok.

BTW - even the so called 200 watt stereo is BS. I realize there is only so much ambiance that can be produced from a compact car, but I have heard much better quality out of factory stereos rated at less than half of this one. It sounds very tinny. Again, set your expectations correctly. This is no Monsoon sound system like they had in the F-bodies by any means. Even the Aztek 190 watt stereo kicks this one (of course it has room for a real Sub in the Aztek though).

scottc454

According to Car and Driver, there's going to be a dealer installed supercharger option for the base engine. I hope this is true, as I think it would perform much better than the GT engine in real world driving, though reliability would be a concern. Has anyone heard anything about this? I went to a Pontiac dealer and they knew basically nothing about the Vibe yet.

crazygrrrl

You won't believe this, but the Pontiac Vibe is based on the Toyota Corolla!!!

I just visited the NUMMI plant (New United Motor Manufacturing Inc.) in Fremont and went on their facility tour. I saw them building Corollas and Vibes on the same line! It was an awesome experience!

For any of you interested in visiting the plant, they offer free tours. Contact them at tours@nummi.com for more info.

Nummi doesn't produce the Toyota Matrix. The tour guide said that the Matrix is built somewhere in Canada, but all Vibes are built in Fremont, CA!

hpulley4

is where the Matrices are built.

Funny thing is, the Corolla is about 300lbs lighter than the Matrix/Vibe so at least with the base engine it should be quicker.

nwng

I wonder where all that weight came from? I agree with a previous poster that the m/v is basically a 5 door corolla and the corolla itself is an econo car, so don't expect it to perform like a sports car. As for the GT/XRS, I have not driven one, but I have drven a 01 Celica GTS extensively and I have concluded it is not my cup of tea. The shifter, clutch and engine response is execellent, but I cannot row the shifter ALL day and keep the rev at 5k to get the car going. The engine just beg to rev. If I am 10 years younger, this may be the car for me. I understand this is a turn off for many people, but I guess you're not in the demographic where Toyota and Pontiac are trying to reach. I do love 5 door hatches though, I hope the civic 5 door, the redesigned nissan primera(sp?) 5 door, corolla wagon, and the Honda Aerodeck will somehow make it to this country......yea, dream on.

teo

Our only 3 Pontiac dealers have around 5 to 10 Vibes allocated on each lot.

There are around 30 Vibes (Base/GT models combined) ready for immediate delivery.

Wife & I are very interested in the new Vibe. We were also eagerly waiting for the Opel Astra 2004 Cavalier replacement, but the new Saturn ION (Which is based on the new Delta platform to be shared with the upcoming Cavalier replacement) is kinda dissapointing. I personally didn't like the ION interior and the exterior is a toss up for the sedan model.

Anyway, for some reason we keep coming back to the Vibe as it seems to have the perfect blend of performance, size, versatility, safety, handling and looks for the money. My wife has a ridiculously tight parking spot at work and the Vibe (Due to the short overall body length) seems to be the most likely candidate for this everyday chore. Also, the Vibe's tight manuvering of radius of 17.1Ft also caught our attention. Judging by the size and tight manuvering radius, we are under the impression the Vibe must be a breeze to "squeeze" into tight parking spaces, but we could be wrong.

In all and all we like the Vibe very much. The new Saturn ION is very long and the turning radius is about 34.7Ft which is midsize car territory. Again, we were not overly impressed by the ION looks. Besides, you can't use your GM Card points on Saturns, but you can redeem them on the Vibe (About $1000.00 worth of points at this time).

My wife has a '97 Mercury Tracer LS sedan that has been extremely reliable for the past 5 years (A rarity for a Ford product) but it is time to upgrade to a bit more substantial vehicle with all the latest safety improvements.

Finally, we are interested in a new Vibe Base model with automatic transmission (She can't and won't drive a stick shift car), Power package, ABS and front passenger and driver side airbags, nothing less, nothing more.

Most of the Vibe base models listed in GMBuypower.com dealer inventory don't have ABS and the very few that do have Automatic tranny, ABS and side airbags come with the "Moon & Tunes" package or the in-dash 6-cd changer premium stereo system. These 2 options jack up the price another $1000.00 and therefore we can't justify getting a moonroof or nicer stereo since we don't want any of these options in our car, aside from the ones I listed above.

Anyway, we are still willing to wait a few more months and see if the availability of non "Moon & Tunes" equipped base Vibes with ABS, auto tranny and side airbags improves overtime.

The Vibe is a very nice car built with Toyota quality, so it seems. We checked the Matrix, but didn't like it. Couple that to the arrogant Toyota dealers, and not being able to apply or GM credit card points gave the Matrix an instant ax.

The Vibe looks much better.

By the way, if you want a model with the exterior grey body cladding painted and color matched is a $500.00 option.

Any feedback from current and prospective owners (Including prices paid) is really appreciated.

How's the reliability of these cars so far?

vonnyvonce

Yesterday ordered new Vibe. White/slate, automatic, alloys, moons and tunes, power, factory alarm, and side air bags. Got it for $800 off MSRP. This vehicle will be ordered and dealer says perhaps in in as little as 4-6 weeks as they may give my car one of their slots.Like ordering better so dealer's flunky won't drive car down from another dealer at 100 mph. Thought the price was reasonable. Can't find any real fault with the car, expect it to be reliable, inexpensive to run and fun to drive.
Anyone know of availability for a trailer hitch for the Vibe/Matrix?

hpulley4

on the Vibe pages. May be copied elsewhere. It is actually much larger, I'm sure. Carpoint lists it as 36.7 feet, which sounds more reasonable. I don't think 17 feet is phyisically possible!

BTW, in Canada we can use our GM earnings on Saturn/Saab/Isuzu vehicles, in fact on all GM vehicles (perhaps with the exception of Hummer).

clyde2000

I'm looking to add aftermarket alarm/keyless entry and power locks since I don't really need power windows and don't want/need cruise control. The power package and factory alarm would cost $1755 CDN. I'm sure I can find a decent alarm and have the have the locking mechanism changed for much less than half that.

Has anyone else decided to something similar? Any other aftermarket changes?

shadowsurfer

Something to watch out for in 2003

* The Nissan Murano: This is another crossover vehicle. But Nissan calls it an "urban SUV," small enough to maneuver in city traffic, tough enough to traverse potholes, and gentle enough to take those hits without upsetting the compact disc player and other electronic entertainment devices found within.

Nissan put a 240-horsepower, 3.5-liter V-6 in this one, which will be available as a front-wheel-drive, or all-wheel-dive vehicle. Expect pricing to begin in the $20,000+ range.

shadowsurfer

2003 Pontiac Vibe GT == 7.2

2002 VW Jetta GLS 1.8T == 7.3

2002 VW GTI 1.8T == 6.6

2002 Saturn VUE V6 == 8.2

2002 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V == 7.0

2002 Honda CRV EX == 8.8

2002 Ford Focus SVT == 7.6

2002 Grand Am 2.2-liter, 5-speed manual == 8.5

weblink: http://www.maitreg.com/cars/performance/view.asp?ID1=151&ID2=115

btw, the Nissan Murano I posted above came from the Washington Post article.

thattree

Toyota's brochure for the Matrix has the turning circle listed as 32.2 feet "curb to curb." I would think the Vibe would be identical.

jgatsby

* Of those who bought, do you think there is/will be a big difference in negotiating price by ordering (someone got $800 US?? off MSRP) versus buying off the lot +/or in transit?? As others have said, you get things bundled together that you want and don't want. Today all 7 Vibes I saw on same lot had aluminum wheels (an $800US option). Some had no side air bags. So to get what you want (and don't want) you may have to order.
* The base Vibe I test drove had the look and feel of a Pontiac (e.g. I dislike the amber-lit speedometer/tach) inside. Outside, I like the Vibe styling, including the fog lights. Pop the hood though, it's a Toyota.
* If not for the GM card rebate and the Toyota engine, I would not be looking at this car. If I wanted an AWD wagon, for example, I would get a Subaru Forester. But the Base Vibe has a niche and (for me) it's a reasonable substitute for the FWD Toyota Corolla Wagon no longer sold here (I believe it's still available in Japan only). Vibe looks to me a fun car to drive.

hpulley4

and I heard on this board someone claimed that Toyota is counting Matrix sales as Corolla sales so they can try to outsell the Civic. If you look at the front of the 2003 Corolla and Matrix, it is obvious.

Tup

The Matrix owners manual actually says "Toyota Corolla Matrix" with Corolla in small letters and Matrix in large letters.

revka

Does anyone here have some feedback to offer matrixorvibe (post 6) in our Matrix & Vibe Enthusiasts discussion? Thanks for your participation.

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards

dindak

Strange that they do not use Corolla in the marketing. I guess they want to keep it as a separate vehicle as much as possible.

scottc454

Someone was asking about the availability of a trailer hitch for the Vibe. The answer is yes,
you can get a trailer hitch. It costs around $200US but you could probably get them to throw that in for free.
I find trailer hitch mounted bike racks to be most convenient.

edchen

If Radius is around 17, Diameter would be around 34. Anyways in the real world the Vibe has a pretty short radius and short doors but has a wide body for a small car. For comparison, a Protege5 feels much better but that could be due to it's variable power steering.

zircon2

The blue colour is really nice, IMO. Saw an AWD blue today, together with red, black and grey ones. I thought all of the cars looked nice, especially the blue. Now I am not even sure that it would look better in monotone than with the Aztek cladding...hard to believe, but I think it looks better with the plastic. Red is a chick's color. Black has metalic paint and looks nice too.

Odd: The Vibe will compete with the Subie Forester, another GM product. I guess the company is so broad and diverse, it always competes with itself on something (think midsize cars).

edchen

The real Corolla wagon looked more like a Ford Focus that a Corolla or Matrix.

Tup

I would hardly call the Subaru Forester another GM product. GM owns 20% of Fuji Heavy Industries and that only recently so GM has no claim on influence on the Forester.
We also have a Forester and our Matrix actually has much more room in the rear, esp. legroom. The Matrix also has nearly as high a seating position as the Forester.