Well, since referring to certain grains is apparently "racist," I find the looks to be of the Usually-adolescent-drivers-who-put-large-wings-and-oversize-mufflers-on-economy-cars variety.
The SEMA Vibe gives me bad vibes. It looks ridiculous. I am surprised that it does not have a TYPE R sticker on it. Would be fun to see it take a speedbump at around 30 MPH though.
It appears to have a serious case of PT Cruiser envy mixed with Honda Civic California-conversion. I am not surprised this is a Pontiac. On the other hand, at least it doesn't have that horrid ribbed body cladding that GM seems to love to stick on the sides of a Chevy to make it a Pontiac. Since GM styling had gotten so bizarre, and branding had been elevated above product, Mr. Waggoner at GM hired Bob Lutz and apparently ditched Ron Zarella. I imagine that Bob Lutz will have the good sense to make sure this thing never sees the light of day.
When old men decide what youth will crave, they are seldom right. One of the few exceptions seems to be Maximum Bob, but even he feels sorry for the Pontiac Aztek. Speaking of which, did its designers design this thing? Uncool. Period.
Don't car much for it, but I never really like over done cars. I prefer a sleeker style.
johnclineii : Pontiac seems to be moving away from ribbing (though some people really like it). The new Vibe, re jigged 02 Aztek and all future Pontiac designs seem to have lost it which is a good thing IMO. Bob Lutz should be good for GM.
Yup, we're still building the corolla. I have no idea what the production limit for the Vibe is. But, if orders are high I'm certain the run can be balance.
Of note, we are also building an export model, the Voltz, for Japan.
I just realized that a base P5 at www.mazda.com goes for $16,905 where the base vibe goes for $16,900 less the destination charge, as I like to compare apples to apples, means the base price on a vibe is $16,340!!! that's $565 cheaper then a P5.
Does anyone know what the option packages are? I think I read somewhere AC and power locks were standard, options would be 1) Auto 2) power roof and windows? Does anyone have any info on this and prices that these options may go for?
thx.
p.s. Am I the only one who liked the picture of the GT? O.k. I'll admit I'm not a fan of the whole huge muffler thing but generally speaking and putting stereotypes aside I think it looks sharp!!
It is still comparing apples to oranges, as they both might be the base, the mazda comes much more loaded ie power windows/locks, alloy wheels, fog lampsm, etc. Any way you slice it, I believe the Vibe will be priced higher.
Edmunds lists 2002 Mazda P5 at $16,335 base price, $5 less then 2003 Vibe. Vibe (media.gm.com) has Air Conditioning with filtration system standard, along with Fog Lamps, Floor Mats, 205/55R16 Tires, 115V Dash Outlet, etc. The Mazda has the alloy wheels, power locks, power windows, cruise control advantages. The final price difference will have to wait until the Vibe option prices are listed. The Vibe will offer an option group with discount for the Power items (Locks/Windows/Keyless Entry/Hatch Release/Cruise). Also ABS and Side Air Bags are seperate options. The Mazda listing at Edmunds says ABS & Side Bags require Moonroof for $1,500. The Vibe has another package with the Moonroof & a 6 Speaker 200 Watt Sound System with discount available. Mazda will win base price (apple) but it will be close for equiped price (orange).
I'm wondering about a few things - will the AWD be able to merge on the highway OK? I don't know enough about the HP/weight and stuff. I would be driving with like 4 people in the car. 123 HP sounds low, but I'm coming from an old Pathfinder that must have weighed more and had 170 HP. It works well enough in that situation.
And safety is big too. Does the Corolla platform do well in safety tests?
I hear about superchargers for the Vibe coming out. Will they be able to be used with the AWD engine? What's the typical cost for a charger installed?
There is a Corolla/Prism in front of the collision shop by me in Island Park, NY. The car was t-boned and is squashed almost halfway through. If you are really concerned about safety, don't get a small car.
Everything in life is a compromise. I have driven and owned Corollas/Novas/Prizms and I have driven and owned Impalas, Crown Vics, Chrysler Concordes, and Ford LTD's.
Small cars have superior manueverability. Sometimes the driver of a small car can avoid a crash that a large car driver could not.
Yes, large cars are safer. BUT, they depreciate more, get worse fuel economy and cost more to operate. Otherwise, we could all be driving Hummers!
Not sure a big car depreciates more than a small car, but I generally agree that small cars are easy to afford and maintain. That all said, there is nothing better than cruising down the highway in a nice V6 or V8 sedan. Comfort wise, you can't beat em!
I would agree that larger cars TEND to give a better ride but they can also give a floaty, bouncy, difficult to steer ride as well. I have driven some larger luxury cars that I was very glad to leave behind for my smaller sportier better handling firmer riding vehicle. Also, a V6 isn't always superior to a 4 cylinder. They tend to be smoother but take a look at some of the higher performance 4 cylinders. My own Forester hasa 165 HP boxer that feels like a 6. Also, The new Altima has a 175 HP 4 and the Honda s2000 has what...240HP?!? Granted, 6cylinders usually gives better torque, lower RPM's at speed etc, but at a mileage penalty. I also remember Mazda's little 1.8litre 6 cylinder engine (RIP) that was in their little MX3.
As for depreciation, larger cars tend to be more expensive and more expensive cars do depreciate more. Take say a $40-50,000 vehicle...in 2-3 yrs time it's worth around half(some more some less) say $25K. If you bought 2 $25K cars, 2-3 yrs later they would be worth $15-17K each for a total of $30-34K. So cheaper cars are way less expensive to own and operate.
In terms of smooth operation, I have never sat in a 4 cyl car (including Honda/ Toyota) that is as smooth as a good V6. 4 bangers always make more noise and vibrate more. Drive an 4 cyl Accord and a 6 cyl Accord back to back and you really see the difference.
I've spoken to some dealers here in the great white north (no snow yet in T.O.) re the VIBE. They've said to expect it in late Feb early March with pricing on the base to be around $17,000 CND!!!!! I've spoken to another one who said to expect the price to be slightly higher then the sunfire.
Try a 4 cyl. Mitsubishi Galant. I own the V6 and its a great performer, but I rented the 4 cyl version and found that not only did it perform about as well but also was quieter. It's those balance shafts in larger 4 cyl. engines that make the difference.
Don't know anything about Mitsubishi (don't sell them in Canada), but in general I still prefer V6 engines over 4 cyl. regardless of the model. That said, our next vehicle is likely going to be a 4 cyl as our Intrigue is my sport sedan fun.
We are looking at Vibe/Matrix, Vue, CR-V, Tribute right now, but who knows.
Actually, I used to have an Eagle Talon which to the Mitsubishi Eclipse what the Vibe is to the Matrix. The Mitsubishi 4 cylinder was a very smooth engine.
Mitsubishi has talked about selling cars in Canada for some time. They recently stopped selling electronics in Canada as well.
That Vibe prototype looks like something any self-respecting pimp would treasure (just make sure it comes in a nice gold colour). When will the people at Pontiac who call themselves designers eliminate the spoiler on everything they sell. They remain a parody of sportiness. Lutz is going to either be banging their heads off a wall or his own. May trade the 5-speed Accord in for the 180HP as long as it bears no resemblance to the pimpmobile and is priced ok.
Dindak: Vue base is ok, but upper end is all options, options, options. Prices out near 33K Canuck without leather. New CR-V looks cheap in comparison, plus will clearly ride better and retain its value better.
Mitsu 2.4L 4 banger is an awesome engine when paired with a 5 speed. Loads of torque and great gas milage. Was used in Canadian Eagle summit wagon till '96. Could scratch in 2 or 3 gears - not bad for an egg-shaped wagon for young families.
At Detroit auto show last year, I asked the Mitsu guy: when are you coming back to Canada? (They modeled a pretty cool modified version of their Expo wagon there plus a new, more tacky model). Talked with the dude for awhile, and, as I walked away, some other guy walked up and said 'When are you guys coming back to Canada'. I had to laugh.
artdecho : Good article. Nice to see some side by side pix.
zircon2 : The V6 Vue is a bit pricey, but the 4 cyl models are fairly reasonable. Pretty loaded AWD will run around C$27-28K and a 2WD will run you around C$25K. Keep in mind also, Saturns prices include destination.
As for Mitsu, they announced they were coming to Canada last year, but I think they canned that when car sales started falling. Too bad, they have a couple of interesting vehicles.
Does anyone know if the Vibe's cladding is actually cladding?......went I saw it at the Toronto Auto show last Feb., it seemed to be actual sheet metal, just painted with a slightly rough-feeling gray paint, to look like cladding. Definitely had a metal feel, not plastic, so it may not be as protective as it looks.
No, I seriously doubt that a car that they promote as being "not much more than a compact" would cost $24,000! try $21,000. At 24K it would be priced in the mid-size range.
The article also points out the AWD will have even LESS power than the FWD model due to more restrictive exhaust plumbing to get around the rear suspension.
Hp drops from 130 to 123, and torque from 130 to 118. More weight, less power. Let's hope they find a way to squeeze a bit more juice out of this mill.
O.k. It seams to me that the space behind a P5 with the seats up is rather small. I was concerned that the Vibe/Matrix would have the same problem. Take a look at the pic at the bottom of this link, it looks like the back is huge!!!, how much of this is reality and how much of this is fancy photography?
That looks pretty accurate, imho. I saw the Pontiac Vibe recently at the 2001 Central Florida Auto Show. I also took some similar pics myself. Don't know the exact dimensions, but the rear cargo space does seem very spacious; kind of surprising considering the overall exterior does not seem very large. My 2 cents. ;-)
That is good to hear. Expecting our first child and needing a second car space is an important consideration for us. To me the P5 looks very small in the back. Either way thanks for the update, nice to hear from someone who has actually seen the car.
p.s. Does anyone out there have a web page with pictures?? Just curious.
I too hope the 24K price mentioned in the Globe and Mail article is for the GT, but I don't think we'll be that lucky. We all agree 24K is a lot for a base car, with no power anything (except mirrors), no ABS, and a manual tranny. It does have the CD player and air standard, but let's face it -- that should be standard nowadays. Let's hope GM doesn't make another mistake with their pricing... the base price should be around 20K +/- 2K for this vehicle. I've been planning on getting a Vibe since I first saw it, but if it's not priced right, I'll look for something else. Get it right GM!
Interesting side note on the G&M article, it appears the whole SUV/hatchback/wagon thing was GM's idea, Toyota was planning another itty-bitty sedan to replace the Corolla.
Could the Globe be that far off the price? 24K to start, wow. Mazda will kill it. No Vibe for me if that is the base - the GT will push 28-30 optioned out. I agree, they have to learn from their mistakes and price this thing appropriately from the get-go.
Someone asked wether the G&M could be wrong? Sure they can, they know less about this car then we do!!! Let's face it. Regardless of what the standard options will be the base in the U.S., after taking out the destination charge is $565 cheaper then a base P5!!!! There is no way then that in Canada they'll price the base $5000 higher then a p5.
Oh well, I'm done ranting. I guess we'll know in January some time.
From what I read, GM did almost all the styling inside and out on both cars, though Toyota had input on the Matrix design. Under the hood though, it's all Toyota. Apparently, the Japanese version of this car looks more like the Vibe which I thought was interesting. I personally like the Vibe's looks better.
Well, from what I read, GM designed the vibe and Toyota designed the Matrix. Toyota's design studio in California designed the Matrix (the same place that designed the Celica). I find the vehicles to look different but appealing in their own way. I like the look of the base Matrix better than the XRS that they keep showing. I also wonder about the blind shop that the much larger "D" pillar on the vibe will create. Nice that GM is going to put a 5yr powertrain warranty on the Vibe though.
The Japanese version of the Vibe/Matrix will be built at the California factory where the Vibe will be made, so it's no wonder that it looks like the Vibe. The Matrix will be made in the Ontario factory.
World of wheels article on the Matrix says base price will be a little more than the new Corolla and they expect it to be just under 20K....now that's more like it, providing they don't gouge too much on AWD, options etc.
Interior is all GM. Unlike the Prism which was all Toyota, GM did a lot of work on these vehicles as they did not want another Toyota Corolla copy cat car. Toyota liked what they saw and decided to go with the Matrix version of the same thing. I know under the hood is all Toyota though.
The Vibe is all Toyota with GM body panels. GM did not select the parts - Toyota did (trust me on this...I know). As for the interior, take a look at the Celica - the Vibe interior is very similar. GM did not have any influance on the interior besides the instrument cluster and radio colors and appearance.
The Vibe and Matrix were engineered by Toyota according to GM specifications. I never disputed the fact that the parts came right out of other Toyota vehicles, but rather that GM designed the interior, and also the skin of the Vibe. I should mention that I'm glad the engine and everything mechanical is all Toyota, that means my Vibe will probably be more reliable. However, I believe that GM should get their due for both the concept and design of the Vibe/Matrix, which would have been just another small sedan otherwise (and we wouldn't be discussing it).
I'm also glad that the hatchback is making a comeback in North America, I think it's the most practical vehicle for most city dwellers. The anticipation of the Vibe/Matrix proves that there is a substantial market for the hatchback.
Lastly, has anybody heard when the Vibe will be selling in Canada? I've heard January, March, and June at various times so I don't know what to believe. Maybe I'll find out more at the Auto show in February, it's already on my calendar.
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Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
X^P
My first impression is that it looks like it kinda dripped into the 21st century from the 1930's, went psychedelic and got shrunk in the process! :-)
tidester
Host
SUVs
When old men decide what youth will crave, they are seldom right. One of the few exceptions seems to be Maximum Bob, but even he feels sorry for the Pontiac Aztek. Speaking of which, did its designers design this thing? Uncool. Period.
johnclineii : Pontiac seems to be moving away from ribbing (though some people really like it). The new Vibe, re jigged 02 Aztek and all future Pontiac designs seem to have lost it which is a good thing IMO. Bob Lutz should be good for GM.
Of note, we are also building an export model, the Voltz, for Japan.
Does anyone know what the option packages are? I think I read somewhere AC and power locks were standard, options would be 1) Auto 2) power roof and windows? Does anyone have any info on this and prices that these options may go for?
thx.
p.s. Am I the only one who liked the picture of the GT? O.k. I'll admit I'm not a fan of the whole huge muffler thing but generally speaking and putting stereotypes aside I think it looks sharp!!
And safety is big too. Does the Corolla platform do well in safety tests?
I hear about superchargers for the Vibe coming out. Will they be able to be used with the AWD engine? What's the typical cost for a charger installed?
Thanks
Dan
If you are really concerned about safety, don't get a small car.
Small cars have superior manueverability. Sometimes the driver of a small car can avoid a crash that a large car driver could not.
Yes, large cars are safer. BUT, they depreciate more, get worse fuel economy and cost more to operate. Otherwise, we could all be driving Hummers!
As for depreciation, larger cars tend to be more expensive and more expensive cars do depreciate more. Take say a $40-50,000 vehicle...in 2-3 yrs time it's worth around half(some more some less) say $25K. If you bought 2 $25K cars, 2-3 yrs later they would be worth $15-17K each for a total of $30-34K. So cheaper cars are way less expensive to own and operate.
If smooth is the number one priority - get an electric vehicle.
We are looking at Vibe/Matrix, Vue, CR-V, Tribute right now, but who knows.
Mitsubishi has talked about selling cars in Canada for some time. They recently stopped selling electronics in Canada as well.
Dindak: Vue base is ok, but upper end is all options, options, options. Prices out near 33K Canuck without leather. New CR-V looks cheap in comparison, plus will clearly ride better and retain its value better.
Mitsu 2.4L 4 banger is an awesome engine when paired with a 5 speed. Loads of torque and great gas milage. Was used in Canadian Eagle summit wagon till '96. Could scratch in 2 or 3 gears - not bad for an egg-shaped wagon for young families.
zircon2 : The V6 Vue is a bit pricey, but the 4 cyl models are fairly reasonable. Pretty loaded AWD will run around C$27-28K and a 2WD will run you around C$25K. Keep in mind also, Saturns prices include destination.
As for Mitsu, they announced they were coming to Canada last year, but I think they canned that when car sales started falling. Too bad, they have a couple of interesting vehicles.
Definitely had a metal feel, not plastic, so it may not be as protective as it looks.
http://www.globeandmail.com/globemegawheels/20011213/good.html
Says the Vibe will start around 24K ($Cdn)...seems high compared to Subaru's similarly sized Impreza TS wagon with AWD/165hp
and more cargo room for $21,995 (22,995 automatic)
Hp drops from 130 to 123, and torque from 130 to 118. More weight, less power. Let's hope they find a way to squeeze a bit more juice out of this mill.
http://www.autonet.ca/wow/Stories.cfm?storyID=3913
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
p.s. Does anyone out there have a web page with pictures?? Just curious.
Interesting side note on the G&M article, it appears the whole SUV/hatchback/wagon thing was GM's idea, Toyota was planning another itty-bitty sedan to replace the Corolla.
Oh well, I'm done ranting. I guess we'll know in January some time.
I'm also glad that the hatchback is making a comeback in North America, I think it's the most practical vehicle for most city dwellers. The anticipation of the Vibe/Matrix proves that there is a substantial market for the hatchback.
Lastly, has anybody heard when the Vibe will be selling in Canada? I've heard January, March, and June at various times so I don't know what to believe. Maybe I'll find out more at the Auto show in February, it's already on my calendar.