Pontiac Vibe

dindak

Sorry.. the dash is all GM (100%). I will try and find a link for you.

dindak

http://www.canadiandriver.com/previews/vibe_vs_matrix.htm

Both interiors designed by John Mack. I realize they are very non-GM looking. Then again, GM is changing fast these days with new people at the helm.

Tup

Actually, GM is making some much nicer interiors than the used to. My parents own an 2001 Oldsmobile Aurora and is has a very attractive dash. GM took a little longer to move away from their bland strait flat dash design....but I guess many buyers were used to this style. One of Pontiac's trade marks is the red dash lights (and as many red lights as they can fit cram in) so I can see Pontiac's hand in the Vibe/Matrix dash. However, I also see similarities to the Rav4 and Highlander dash design. Whoever designed the dash, I think they did a nice job...the chrome look is modern looking. The only thing I wonder about is the cave-like recessed instruments.

As I said before, with both companies sharing the cost of development, they should be able to offer lower prices(or have a higher markup margin).

dindak

I hope so. Priced right, Vibe/Matrix could be a blockbuster for both companies.

focusmatt2

I saw a Vibe GT in Austin, Texas this Friday. It was grey and really looked very nice! It's really a nice size, about the size of perhaps a RAV-4 but on lower profile wheels and taller. It's the first Pontiac in probably 25 years that is any bit good looking. It had Michigan licence plates, so chances are either it was there for publicity purposes - parked on a street side in a really really busy hip urban neighborhood, or it was from the GM business center which has a branch in Austin.

squiredogs

I'm looking at the Vibe as a great choice, provided it has enough juice for parkway on-ramps, and a little pep from a red light. I also considered the Aztek, but I need to drive with the liftglass up to carry a 10' surfboard. I know it could hang out of the glass in the Vibe. Anyone else choosing between these two? Or is everyone else cross shopping Subaru's and Golf's? Any comparisons/opinions between the Tek and the Vibe?

dindak

I did not like the 01 Aztek, but the 02 Aztek looks much better as the gray plastic is gone and a spoiler has been added to make the back look better. I think if you need the extra space, the Aztek may be a good choice. It also has a lot of cool stuff like the cooler and camping package. That said, it's still a bit out there style wise. Quality and reliability have been excellent though and if you can live with the looks, it's a good choice.

The Vibe is a bit smaller, will handle better and is much better looking for sure. It will also be better on gas and probably be less expensive to insure. Best advice is to test both and bring your surf board to see how it fits. It's really a personal choice, and I don't think you will go wrong with either vehicle.

zircon2

Come on, this has to be a joke. The Vibe will be attractive and fast, and probably safe. The AZZZZZZwreck is a boat not unlike U571 (on tv right now). Plus it is the big underachiever in offset collision tests - the worst of the group tested, just like its mother the Pontiac Montana (where is Kissfan to defend this thing?). The spoiler only makes it worse.

GM can hit a home run with the Vibe if they price it well. I would argue, in fact, that this may open the door to a small car resurrection at the general. Lutz knows what to do, and I will bet he is going to go after hot designs bigtime now. Cut the beancounters and YES-men, and hire young, vibrant designers. No more AZZZwrecks to be embarassed about.

On a different note, isn't the new Thunderbird buttugly.

moparbad

On Thursday December 13th, GM stopped producing the prizm. The joint venture(GM/Toyota)started building Prizm in Nov.1988. They built close to 1 million prizms. 998,580 Prizms produced.

dindak

Not everyone wants the same vehicle you like. Obviously the guy is looking for utility as well as some kind of a crossover vehicle. We all know you hate the Aztek (in case that wasn't obvious from your post). I'm not going to defend the Aztek styling ect. with you but try and be a little more objective with you posts.

dindak

http://www.auto.com/industry/vibe20_20011220.htm

abc246

Does anyone know why we can not have them both? I am looking to trade my SUV (Blazer) but do not want only 130hp.

Tup

Well, basically, the AWD option requires an automatic transmission and the automatic 180hp performs no better than the 130Hp Automatic. The 180Hp engines extra power only occurs at much higher RPM's, so the automatic shifts gears before the added HP kicks in.

clyde2000

The Vibe weighs much less than the Blazer, 130 hp should be plenty for a hatchback its size. I still don't see why so many people want the AWD. Is it a safety thing? If people would learn to drive according to the conditions, a front wheel drive car should be just fine.

qbrozen

Its not the FWD is bad, its that AWD is better. There are many times where FWD is just not going to cut it (like getting plowed into your driveway or when you can't find a parking space at the mall near christmas and need to climb the nearest hill, in the snow or mud, or when your car is parked on a Sunday and it snows all day, then the snow melts just a little bit on top late in the day and then it freezes overnight and now your car is stuck in an icey ditch of snow or ...... well, you get the picture). I know that I do things with my wife's AWD vehicle that I could never pull off with my FWD sedan. And I hate having to shovel myself out. Luckily it doesn't happen all that often, but when it does ...

dindak

I have never come to a situation where I've been stuck with any decent 2WD car (ie not an old boat clunker). Perhaps we have better snow removal here than other places, but AWD not worth the premium to me. I'd rather get a power sun roof and the cool DVD navigation system!!!

;-)

Tup

Well, speaking as a person who owns a Subaru Forester AWD and has a second set of Michelin Arctic Alpins to use in the winter....I can say those who haven't tried AWD don't know what they are missing! After driving an AWD vehicle in snow and ice with good winter tires and then going to a Front wheel drive with All season tires....I can tell you that there is a WORLD of difference! The added safety is worth every penny.

That said, unfortunately, many people who drive 4WD and AWD vehicles seem to forget that while AWD helps you go forward, it doesn't help you stop. So they go too fast, show off and then wonder why they end up in the ditch. Once you hit the brakes, AWD doesn't help you. That's where good winter tires and perhaps ABS helps out.

So AWD does offer added safety over RWD or FWD or even FWD with traction control....so long as the vehicle is driven smartly.

If you don't do much distance driving then a FWD vehicle with tires that offer good grip is still very good.

dindak

No doubt, AWD is better. I just don't think it's worth the premium. You are right though about letting the systems go to your head. Some of the first people in the ditch seem to be people with 4x4 and AWD vehicles.

zircon2

Dindak: please do not confuse my criticism of the Aztek to GM in general. I have a new Silverado pickup which is a GREAT truck. Their car line needs work, and Bob Lutz apparently is already involved in cleaning up ther mess lest to him by Zarrella. The latter thought car sales were driven by marketing, the former believes people buy based on value, looks, content etc. I will go with Mr Lutz anyday. I have seen some images of the Vibe, including the site you kindly posted (I saw it yesterday but then couldn't remember where to revisit it). That black with grey cladding looks really nice. That Toyota's Matrix has been outstyled by the Vibe is a coup got Pontiac (hard to believe too). Never know...my 5-speed Accord may be traded in yet.

Any idea of firm prices for the GT in Canada?

dindak

Fair enough. Aztek was a mistake. It could have been a big hit, but because of styling it was a joke to many. I still think for what it does/ is, it's a good vehicle. Styling is better for 02 but I think the name has been tarnished now. I don't think it will be around for more than another year or two.

No idea about C$ pricing. I'm sure it will be out in early January. Too close to Christmas to bother now. Looks to be a very nice car and like I said, the Japanese version is the Vibe styling which says a lot IMO.

clyde2000

All the talk about AWD brings up an interesting point: Will all cars 10 years from now have AWD? Most innovations start in the luxury/high-end vehicles, such as air bags, ABS, and even air conditioning. I figure AWD for all can't be that far off.

The thing that concerns me is that people drive differently when they have a car with ABS, AWD, etc. Tup got it right when he said most vehicles in the ditches are AWD -- more often than not due to driver error.

It goes something like this:
"I am invincible in my AWD SUV... haha, oh oh, damn. Stupid thing can't drive in a foot of snow. {censored} {censored}"

Tup

I too liked the styling of the Vibe better (except for the front end) however, after seeing a base matrix in person, I can say that the looks do start to grow on you. I think it has a styling that you warm up to over time. However, Toyota must not be liking all the comments about the vibe looking better. Maybe they will put a lower price on the Matrix.

dindak

http://www.auto.com/photos/gallery/02pontiacvibe/index.htm

zircon2

I like the 2-tone color. I also know that it will be easier to keep the paint intact by not painting the cladding. My wife's CR-V has painted cladding, and it gets scarred easily. The grey seems to go with most of the colors but I will have to check them out in person (like the orange-red one). Fortunately the Detroit auto show is only about 3 weeks away. I bet they will hav about 4 of them there.

cayennered1

Can't agree about the gray cladding.

At last years Detroit show the Vibe GT with monochrome paint looked much better to me than the two tone. I think the small size of the car and fender flares make gray cladding look excessive on the vehicle.

I would definitely choose monchrome, but that's a personal choice. I feel the same way about the Saturn Vue. Car comes with gray front and rear bumpers and rocker moldings. The show cars I've seen with monochrome paint scheme look much more upscale.

The difference s the Vibe will have monochrome available shortly after introduction while I'm not sure if and when the Vue will.

Problem is the Vue's interior is too cheap for my taste so upscale exterior probably won't help anyway.

leafguy2727

O.K. Not to be picky or anything but I loved the look of the vibe until I saw the pictures linked above with those rims. Is it me or do those not look terrible? This pic on my desktop has nice five spoke non shine rims

leafguy2727

I just realized it's the Canadian version that shows those nasty rims. If you go to the 2 different pontiac web pages (Canada & USA) you can see that the rims are different.

montanafan

From what we were told by the people with the Vibe at the Boston Auto Show in November: The Canadian site and the first red Vibe (driver's side), at cars.com, use the 17" Alloy Wheel (wide with a ridge in the center starting at the base). The passenger side red Vibe and the silver ones , at cars.com, are using the 16" Alloy (looks like a notch at base). The USA Pontiac site features the 18" thin 5-spoke of the original show cars.

dindak

Quite often the pre-production rims you see in pictures are not the ones that eventually come with the car. It will be interesting to see the options next month when this car hits the market.

I was talking to a guy at a Christmas party this past weekend who sells Pontiacs in Nova Scotia and he says they have had a lot of people inquiring about the car this month. He thinks it's going to be a huge seller for Pontiac.

jimjps

Car and Driver did a test a while back driving similar cars in the snow, one FWD and AWD. I think they were Audis. They measured several factors including braking, cornering, acceleration and climbing. Overall their conclusion was that the FWD was better in the snow! The only advantage of AWD was making a steep grade in snow and the FWD did everything else in the snow slightly better. Again, this was their conclusion. Note also that they had real snow tires on all 4's and this makes a huge difference. Having less weight and less unsprung weight I would think the FWD would be a slightly better car in braking, cornering and ride not to mention it is cheaper, simpler and should be more reliable and have higher MPG. On the other hand, my brother lives on a steep unpaved hill where it snows and AWD is a neccesity for him. Without it, he doesn't make it to his front door. If you live in snow, the ultimate forward traction of AWD is important. With a light FWD like my old Scirocco, if I got stuck I could (with the help of 2 passengers) literally lift the car out of whatever predicament I was in and continue. Granted this is not an "elegant" solution and without the passengers one could be SOL. Fortunately, it only happened once in 10 years when a wheel nearly disappeared into an icy hole. Anyway, I am not trying to put down AWD, I just think most people don't need it and it has numerous drawback$ as well as advatages. A set of good snow tires will do wonders on a good FWD with a skilled driver.

clyde2000

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2001-07-25-vibe.htm

Note the last three paragraphs. I'm beginning to think that they won't be able to keep up with demand, and that dealers will set the price at or above MSRP. It seems like it really is hit or miss with Pontiac...

johnclineii

If this happens, would be Vibe customers can rollerboard down to el Toyota dealer and be Matrixed. I am sure Toyota, who builds the Matrix in a Canadian factory (and takes part of the NUMMI output of Vibes and exports them to Japan as Voltzs) will be most happy to sell you honorable Vibe in Toyota clothing. This, I would think, would be one factor to help stop dealer gouging.

Then, too, if the two cars are HUGE hits, all bets are off. Imports aren't exactly known for making their dealers hold the line on MSRP. (Remember how much Accords sold for during the gas crisis?)

dindak

I think it's likely Pontiac and Toyota will face shortages. Limited output is clearly the main problem with no where to build more cars. 70K Vibes will sell out fast.

I was watching CNBC this morning and the Vibe was specifically mentioned as one of the hot must have cars for 2002. Other's were the Matrix and the Mini. MSRP may be a fact of life if you want a Vibe or Matrix this coming year.

montanafan

Keep in mind that at 70,000 units the Vibe would out sell the Aztek, Montana, Firebird, and maybe the Bonneville. With the Sunfire 4-Door being discontinued, the Vibe could outsell the Sunfire. Pontiac has said that the sales expectations are in the 50,000s. The real shortages will come in the AWD and GT models with each being around 10%-13% of production.

dindak

That's true, but I think Pontiac could sell 150K of these things if it had the capacity. Pontiac hasn't had a hit since the Grand Prix back in 97 and I think the Vibe will be much bigger. Sunfire will be gone after next year and I think you will see another cool Pontiac concept come to life for 2003/04.

I think I would only be looking at a base Vibe with an automatic if we got one. GT would be nice but we are on a budget now with a kid (in day care) and a house now and there isn't a lot of room for higher car payments. Might spurge a bit on the stereo though!

focusmatt2

Since when was the Grand Prix a hit?

seminole_kev

that was exactly what I was thinking! ;-)

dindak

I remember when the Grand Prix came out they were selling at around list for quite sometime. Even when we leased our's in 98, there were no incentives at all on the car and we had to wait a few weeks to get one. I'm not saying it was a PT Cruiser type hit, but it sold very well for the first 2-3 years.

teo

Yeah the GP busta the Focus.

dverespey

Montanaman is corect the limit is mostly on GT and AWD production.

First one is just about done...nice looking black one too.....

seminole_kev

huh?

teo

Huh? Man dual personaility kicked in....

seminole_kev

teo, maybe it's just friday, but you don't seem coherent today.

By the way the Vibe does look much better than it's Matrix twin.

montanafan

GM's percentage of production capacity may be limited at NUMMI. Prizim production in '96 & '97 was around 65,000 units. '99 & '00 was around 50,000.

montanafan

With all this Vibe talk today, went over to Pontiac's Vibe web page. They must have run a contest to make a film for auto shows. The winning film is available to view. Looks kind of cool. Its not the BMW/Madonna film, but like a long commercial.

clyde2000

The more I see advertising like the new video at Pontiac's website the more I wish they just let the cars sell themselves.

It starts off good, but it ends up being over three minutes of nothing. It's almost as if they're trying to hard. All I learned was that an aftermarket CD player is needed. (Why do they even bother putting in audio systems?) However, I did like the look of the "salsa" (aka dark red) Vibe.

"We've got your Vibe"? Yeah, well I have advice for Pontiac, let the car do the talking.

johnclineii

AMEN!

I predict GM is about to be as silly as Toyota was with the Echo. The predicted target market for Echo was kids in their twenties. Those kids bought used, larger cars and trucks instead. The real market for Echo turned out to be considerably older and richer than Toyota had figured. If you remember, Neon and Focus also had these silly ad campaigns. I have friends in the target age group. They ALWAYS see this kind of marketing as condescending and silly.

You are wise indeed. Sell features. Product is king. Besides, I thought Ron Zarella was gone. I wonder if Mr. Bob Lutz has seen these silly ads. Then again, he was at Chrysler when that baby puke green Neon (that lasted all of one year) was busy with the white one saying "Hi." The PT Cruiser, thankfully, was not subject to such abominations.

In closing, I think sometimes the primary goal is to win advertising awards.

montanafan

It was a contest for UCLA Film students. Unless you attend an auto show, you will probably never see it again.

dindak

Vibe will sell very high numbers to young buyers. Vibe is nothing like the Echo, it has the goods!

clyde2000

Only if they price it right. If it's too high, they'll get the same demographic as the PT Cruiser, Beetle, Aztek, etc. (Okay the Aztek is a stretch.) This is assuming, of course, that Pontiac still is aiming at young buyers, which from their marketing seems to be the case.