Seen on the bulletin board at local dealer on Sat.: Vibe $16,340, Vibe AWD $19,540, Vibe GT $19,340, destination charge $560. Moon & Tunes $500 ($800 less $300 package), Power Package $600 ($1,000 less $400), Side Bags $300, ABS $500, Monotone Package $500 (No details of when or what), DVD Nav $1,600, 6 Disc $300, Auto $800, 16" Wheels $400, 17" Wheels&Tires $800 ($400 GT), Cargo Mat $50, Cargo Net $25, Bumper protector $40, Cargo Box $95, Seatback storage and First Aid Kit $80.
Base Vibe with Power Group $16,940 (includes Cruise & Fog Lamps), Matrix XR $16,430 (with cruise contol at $250-edmunds price on 2002 Corolla). Toyota $500 advantage. GM Card earnings on Vibe - new style $1,000. Pontiac advantage $500. Not sure how other lesser features compare, just used the PDF downloads from both sites.
Called a Toyota dealer today and was advised to expect 6.8% on the Matrix, ie that is what is on the Camary right now. A little high IMO, any word on Vibe financing rates???
Odman, to my recollection Toyota did not like the fact that the tests and criteria used by the "experts" were too subjective and that not all vehicles available were being tested in each category. The experts select only from new or what they deem to be substantially changed vehicles for the AJAC awards. Although Toyota did not admit it, I believe they did not like some of the writers on the selection committee. They felt they would not receive a fair shake.
Let's say Toyota has not been as accommodating as other manufacturers when allowing some editors review their vehicles. They probably made them pay for the gas during the test drives.
Please don't quote me on the reason. I was unable to find the article in old Star issues. It was some time ago.
Looking at the price list for options posted it's pretty clear that the Protege5 will significantly undercut a comparably equipped Vibe.
The P5 fully loaded (moonroof, abs, side airbags, CD-cassette, chrome alloys) tops out at around $19000. I priced a similarly equipped Vibe (with monochrome paint) and it looks to be aound $20.700.
You do get the 200 watt stereo for that price but that's about the only advantage equipment wise (P5 also has ground effects, spoiler, etc).
Still like the Vibe, but as the price passes 20 Grand it becomes less appealing. Just saw the Infiniti G35 sports sedan priced starting at $27.100 with 260HP, Auto., power everything, 6 disc CD. How do they do it?
Per Edmunds new car pricing: 2002 P5 , destination, 16" alloy, 6-Disc, ABS & Side Bags, Auto, Mats, and Moonroof = $20,195. For the my dealers bulletin board: 2003 Vibe, destination, 16" wheels, 6-Disc, Moon & Tunes, Power Package, Side Bags, ABS, Monotone, and Auto =$20,800.
They like writing about important stuff like...make sure your gas guage reads above 1/4 before going out in the bush...keep a snow brush in the vehicle during winter months...always let merging drivers in front of you...blah...blah...blah
Best reviewer in Canada is David Booth - National Post and Southam papers. He tells it like it is. Plus he's funny as hell. Best in the USA (aside from our friends here at Edmunds, of course) are the Lienerts from the Detroit News - they also are informative and amusing.
Dindak, press those Pontiac guys on prices; I cannot believe how slow they are in releasing this. The dealer I visited, SW Ontario, was totally clueless on the Vibe. I think trying to sell (or look at)the green Azzwreck harmed his grey matter.
The 180 HP version appears pretty competitively prices. To get the same engine package in the Celica GT was about 8K more - granted it is a different car. I hope that that price includes most options? Trying to figure GM's web site out was not easy. Does the Vibe GT come with 16 or 17 inch wheels? with side air bags? with the monsoon stereo? It says 'premium' 200W system, but that could be some jazzed up Delco job. The most expensive thing - the DVD Onstar system - is that last option I would want anyway. Looking forward to next Monday afternoon - just my son, I, and 10,000 others at the NAIAS auto show to check it out.
The Vibes started rolling off the line yesterday so expect CDN pricing any day now. Got to figure they will be getting list for these cars given the low prices! I almost can't believe how low Toyota went with the Matrix.
See the cars on the lot, with the stickers, THEN believe it. Too many things can happen, from only high optioned cars being built to dealers gouging above MSRP, to Toyota and GM rapidly raising prices if the car is a hit.
As my good old granny used to say, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch!" She used to have plenty of ORIGINAL sayings, too, but many of them would not be so appropriate here!
Yes, you're right. All this time I thought the CAMI plant was in Cambridge, ON, when that is the TMMC plant where the Corolla and Matrix will be built. My Metro was built at the CAMI plant which is, as you said, in Ingersol not Cambridge. Still very local though.
Looks like there will be a lot of 5-door competition by the time I need a new car: Aerio SX, Focus ZX5, Protege5, Matrix, Vibe, the old Golf, Elantra, maybe an ION, et al. I can't wait for the price&incentive wars!
I've noticed that Matrix advertising is out already (C&D Feb issue, Sport Car Compact before Christmas, and even the HMV in store music magazine), but nothing from Pontiac. When are they going to start promoting this vehicle?
Look forward to your report from the Auto Show next week. Hope the higher roof line will give plenty of room for a big guy, like me, to fit in. The spec sheet I was able to download from the Pontiac site is much more informative then the one from a month or two ago. GT standard with 16" wheels & tires, Premium Sound is not monsoon, DVD navigation is the anti-OnStar, and side bags are optional on all Vibes. Pontiac usually has a couple ads in the post Super Bowl show.
Montana: Check out Wed's www.msn.com web site on the auto show. They contrast the vibe vs. the PT Cruiser (grossly over-rated if you ask me). They say that front leg room is greater in Vibe, though maximum leg room in back is greater in PT. I drove one of those cars a few months ago and don't recall being cramped in the front (I am 6'2"), so it look like leg-room galore in Vibe. Some reviewers have said it looks better in person too. Weird wheels though. I set look like they're spun taffy (twisted spokes). I don't know if that was base or GT.
I'm 6'5", and when I rented a PT, I found it had more than enough leg room up front (rear was an entirely different issue). More important than your height are your proportions -- are you "all arms and legs" or are you more "torso"? There's no substitute for trying on a car for size, and this can really only be done with an extended test drive or rental if you can get one. I too am hopeful that the PT will fit well.
http://www.pontiac.com/vibe/vibe_specs.pdf says the turning diameter is 17.7 feet? Is that possible with only 2-wheel steering??? Most cars are in the neighborhood of 30 feet or so.
says the turning diameter is 17.7 feet? Is that possible with only 2-wheel steering???
With that kind of turning diameter you would have to be driving v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y!
I didn't read the article - but - did they mean turning radius? A 17.7 foot diameter would mean the turning radius is barely larger than the width of the Vibe.
...but you're right, it looks like they printed the radius instead. That would put the diameter at 35.4 ft which isn't bad but isn't great either for a car that size. P5 is 34.1 ft, ZX5 is 34.3 ft..
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Well, comparing the Vibe and Matrix pricing, the US vibe is a little more than the Matrix XR which would mean a Vibe would start at around $21,000 Canadian.
Well, I just did a run over to the Detroit auto show with my son. We checked out 2 Vibes on display, a dark-blue AWD and a pumpkin orange one. The dark blue (or grey) was a nice color, the orange looked horrible IMO.
I have to say that I am astounded that Pontiac has managed to screw this presentation up. They have an anxiously awaited car (the first in a long, long time for them), so what do the boneheads do? They put both cars on inaccessible, view-only platforms. Of course, you could sit in as many bloody Asswrecks as you liked, right next to the Vibe in fact, but you could only look at the vehicle they will have on the market in a month. The Pontiac chick offered to get me info on the car, or let me sit in a 'Wreck, but I shook my head in disbelief and walked. You'd think after running a marketing company for Zarrella's tenure, they would be begging you to sit in their new model car. Nope. You can lead a horse to water.....
Impressions: The AWD really sits up high. I was pretty impressed with its external appearance but feel that there is too much 'Wreck cladding on it as a two-tone vehicle. The pumpkin car had painted cladding and looked much better (not the color, just the appearance and lack of obvious aztekness to it).
Chrysler Pacifica is a really, really nice looking car - if priced right it will sell really well. It looks like a wagon but is based on a minivan. The Pontiac Solstice vehicles were both nice; I really liked the blue convertible - if they bring it to market, it will send Pontiac off on a new (thank God) tangent of cladding-less, stylish cars. I really did not like the new Cadillac's including the CTS. Way too many square lines, that seem only to add clutter. When Mercedes or Beemer adds lines, creases etc., they often serve a function. These caddy designs are just really busy - seemed like what you would get by giving a kid a blank page and a crayon and asking them to fill in as much space as possible. Too bad.
The new Nissan Z and Mazda RX7 replacement both look nice. The Saab concepts didn't look very utilitarian, but looked cool nevertheless.
I'm going to the show tomorrow. You've confirmed what I knew all along which is that the Vibe is too small a vehicle for that grotesque twotone cladding and that the vehicle is clearly more attractive in monochrome. So what do the marketing gurus at GM-Pontiac do? They charge $500 extra for the privilege of having the car painted one color (monochrome) instead of two. And they want to know why they lose out to the imports. I'm really looking for something more upscale than the Vibe (Infiniti G35, Volvo S60 or maybe Pacifica if I could wait. My lease expires next fall so I'd have to holdover or buy my lease car to wait for the Pacifica), but I wanted to like it because an inexpensive attractive sportwagon would tempt me. Still don't think that it's a better choice than a Protege5.
You're right. It's mind boggling that a month before intro they won't let you sit in the thing. Perhaps they could hire my 4 year old great niece for marketing since she obviously would have more sense than the present marketing staff.
Looking forward to seeing the G35 and the Pacifica in the flesh.
Wish I could be there. I was also disappointed that I could not sit in the Vibe when it was here at the 2001 Central Florida Auto show.
You said: "Best in show: Pacifica.
Have you had a chance to check our new Chrysler Pacifica discussion? As cb70 mentioned, I'm sure the folks in there would be interested in hearing your impressions. Happy motoring! ;-)
I cannot really comment on the Vibe's interior because it was too difficult to see (a giraffe could see in much better). The orange Vibe had ground effects, which I also did not like. It is a shame if they charge the extra $500 for monotone paint. It really hides the cladding.
The G35 is another really nive looking car. Sorry I forgot to mention it. Same with the GT40 Mustang - a really hot looking number, although there are 3 hood scoops (2 too many).
The Pacifica had beautiful flowing lines. I really liked the sides and back. The lines are what you would epect from BMW or Mercedes. My wife likes the front (like a 300M). Also, this thing is going to have satellite radio (100 national stations you can listen to anywhere you drive). DVD entertainment system. AWD or at least it is built to accommodate it. It is pretty big, and so should be roomy (it was view-only also, but, unlike Vibe, it was just unveiled and is not going to market in a month). It is tall - only 5 cm (2 inches) shorter than a minivan, but it doesn't look like a wally wagon.
Hummer2 is a big vehicle. I can imagine some dude pissed off in LA traffic going nuts in one of these things. Kind of like that famous stolen tank case in San Diego.
Many of the cars were locked - perhaps because it was late evening. Many, many cops on duty.
Check the Volvo S60 - it has a small back seat. Their new SUV looked nice from the outside. Clearly a Volvo vehicle.
Well, when I went to the (much smaller) Halifax car show in November they had the Matrix ropped off as well (a base 4WD) The Toyota guy told me that it was a preproduction unit that had been thrown together and wouldn't stand up to people pushing and prodding in it. I found this a little suspect since they were able to provide the media with working prototypes to test drive.
Zircon, did you also check out the Matrix? Could you sit in it? Also, is that cladding on the Vibe really painted or is it actually unpainted vinyl cladding?
I also like the looks of the Pacifica. Not really a totally new idea really. To me it looks a lot like an Audi Avant. I suspect you'll see a 3'rd row seat in several AWD tall wagons soon. I know Subaru had a prototype of what they were calling a very low AWD van with 3 rows of seats...which was really a longer outback wagon. Still, with the Pacifica's looks, it should do well...not as well as the PT I think due to it's higher price.
I'm surprised they would not have a model available to sit in. The VUE was making the rounds at the dealerships 2 months before release. I guess the pre-production models they had weren't very nice inside or something.
Canadian Int'l Auto Show is next month so there should be some available there to sit in.
Well, when I went to the (much smaller) Halifax car show in November they had the Matrix ropped off as well (a base 4WD) The Toyota guy told me that it was a preproduction unit that had been thrown together and wouldn't stand up to people pushing and prodding in it. I found this a little suspect since they were able to provide the media with working prototypes to test drive.
Zircon, did you also check out the Matrix? Could you sit in it? Also, is that cladding on the Vibe really painted or is it actually unpainted vinyl cladding?
I also like the looks of the Pacifica. Not really a totally new idea really. To me it looks a lot like an Audi Avant. I suspect you'll see a 3'rd row seat in several AWD tall wagons soon. I know Subaru had a prototype of what they were calling a very low AWD van with 3 rows of seats...which was really a longer outback wagon. Still, with the Pacifica's looks, it should do well...not as well as the PT I think due to it's higher price.
My mom just bought a Volvo S60 and the back seat is just fine, really. It's not extremely roomy, but bigger than a 330i and slightly smaller than a 540i.
Toyota had a couple of Matrix models that you could touch and climb in, but the two Pontiac Vibes were roped off. I liked the Vibe exterior styling better - the AWD one had cleaner, less cluttered lines IMHO. Couldn't see the interior much at all. I'm reserving judgement until I've test driven one.
I just asked about the Matrix since if you could get into the Matrix....it would be essentially the same as getting into the Vibe as the interiors are essentially identical (from my understanding).
My son loved the 2 Pontiac concepts. I thought they were pretty nice too, especially since it was Pontiac we were looking at. However, get this. In Sunday's paper, the Detroit News auto reviewers assembled a group of public reviewers, and of the 10 two chose the Pacifica as the best show car, but 2 also chose it as the worst. Some woman was basically having a big 'O', while looking at the car when I was there. The Pacifica will have 3 sets of seats.
About 4 or 5 of the people said the new Pontiacs (solstice) were the dogs, with no best votes. I do not understand that. About 5 reviewers said the Cadillac roadster (XLR, I think) was the champ. So, while I really don't like the abrupt lines in the new caddy models, clearly they struck a note for some people.
They hated the Honda Pilot because of its manufacturer (remember this is Detroit), but IMO it is going to kill a lot of its competitors in quality and price.
My son also liked the new Nissan Quest minivan concept. Long body, dual narrow sunroofs running the length of the car, cool seating. The concept Mercedes minivan-wagon was also cool. I thought it had elements of Pacifica, though its rear sloped down from the back seat on.
No Mitsu minivans or tall wagons - a real shame - I loved my old Expo 2.4L 5-speed and they had a really cool concept at last year's show.
I love the new Pontiac Solstice and apparently it is very production ready using all existing GM parts and drive train. Apparently they estimated the price to be around U$25K which is very affordable.
I agree with you on the Pilot. It will have great quality, but it's really boring. Much prefer the Pathfinder and Trailblazer.
Went to the show today and despite no access to the Vibe interior (they did have the door open on the display car), I can review the interior, as the Matrix was totally accessable to the public.
I liked the interior overall. Seat trim is subdued and nothing fancy but doesn't look cheap either. Use of aluminum-like trim also raises the level of the appearance. Seats seemed reasonably comfortable and I didn't find any ergonomic negatives. I'd rate the interior 7 on a scale of 10. One thing is for sure compared to the Vue interior this thing is a Rolls Royce. I just glanced in the Vue and the plastic and seat trim are in a word horrible. It just reaks cheap.
As for the Matrix itself, it was a dark blue which somewhat mutes the severe character line but I still prefer the Vibe styling. The Matrix looks like an elephant sat on the rear of the roof.
I had a number of disappointments. I really thought the G35 was going to be my next car, but I was totally underwhelmed when I saw it in person. I think the styling is rather bland and the interior isn't that exciting either.
The Pacifica also looks better in pictures than in person in my opinion. It just looked like a slightly taller station wagon, although the interior was quite attractive.
The car of the show for me was the Mazda 6 Hatchback which was on display in the form of a Japanese RHD version with oversized wheels and blacked out windows. I hate spoilers but this car looked great even with one.
Surprise favorite of the show for me was the Mini. Sure there cute, but as a practical transport I figured no way. Well surprisingly, I discovered that the Mini will be availbale with an automatic (a CVT, no less) and the thing is cooler than cool. The interior is like nothing else on the planet and while I may be a geriatric (57), I'm single so a small car like this is doable. My sanity may get the better of me at some point but I have to tell you I'm tempted. Let's just say the Mini display was far and away the most crowded at the show.
And last but not least, an old standby, the PT Cruiser. Still looks great, is cheap and roomy inside.
Oh well, when I saw the Vibe I didn't read all the fine print - I just liked the looks. However, after reading the article, it's back to the drawing board for me. The AWD is an absolute must for me (I don't like chains and shovelling at 4am), along with a reasonable engine, since I drive the I5 Grapevine every day. I was really disappointed that they put such a small engine in the AWD - along with an Auto. I don't think it would survive long climbing up from sea level to 6,000 feet at highway speeds every day (my 4 banger auto Nissan pickup didn't - went through 2 trannys in a year).
In case anyone from Pontiac is reading this board - those of us who need AWD need it for a reason, and probably need a bigger engine or a manual tranny!
...actually the same as the 130hp version in the base _except_ that there isn't enough room for a large, relatively straight exhaust with the centre viscous differential and rear drivetrain. The exhaust is thus not as free-flowing so the engine ends up being restricted.
I agree that the AWD version sounds very bad; I've heard 0-60 in 11.5s or worse and those tests are usually performed with brake-stands on autos so for your average person merging onto the highway it will be even slower. It is almost 3000lbs but has only 123 hp and 117 lb-ft of torque _AND_ it has an AWD drivetrain which has lower efficiency than a 2WD drivetrain. Locking torque converters on modern automatics are great for gas mileage while cruising, today giving very similar (sometimes even better) highway mileage than a stick-shift but while accelerating you still lose power to the torque converter until it locks up in 3rd or 4th.
I'll be looking at the base 2WD version myself but also at competitors which are lighter with 2.0L 140hp engines.
I've crawled around in both the Vibe (preproduction) and Matrix (at the NAIAS). They're about the same - both pretty good. There are some minor differences between them - a couple of parts, although appearing identical, are actually different. Hence, some knobs and switches will feel a little bit different between the two vehicles.
Haven't driven them yet, although I'd like to drive the FWD base Vibe - if it feels like it has adequate torque (ie not unsafe), I may go for it. THe interior is quite nice and I love the utility of it. The hard plastic rear and fold flat seats provide some great utility. It may be just what I need to get the utility of an SUV but still get the handling and fuel economy of a car.
I think the GM boys are out getting the coffee stains out of their white shirts. See, they were sitting down having the morning coffee, when someone posted the new Corolla and Vibe prices on their computer monitors. Suddenly there was screams of anguish - heard for miles - as 65 beancounters collectively lost control of their facial muscles and spilled their drink.
Toyo has priced their car aggressively, much more so I suspect than GM wanted. If an Asswreck could be priced for up to $41,000 Can. (yup, that was the MSRP of a fully loaded 'wreck when they came out), surely the Vibe was worth 38K.
First I want to say that reviews I have read state that the DVD navigation system has lousy execution in Vibe. So it is likely a waste of $ to start with. Second, have you considered that having a moonroof may not be the best idea in combination with the nav system. With the roof open I bet the sun makes the system unreadable with the direct sunlight. I can hear the complaints already and GM/Toyota must have figured this out too.
I doubt the Vibe was to be priced that high (though I'm sure you're joking), but I'm sure it was likely to start are around C$20-21K. They are probably rethinking that now.
On the other side, one must wonder why Toyota low balled the price here on the Matrix? Doesn't really make sense to price a car (that will likely sell out regardless) too low. You can bet Toyota will not be negotiating prices though.
By the way, I think the 02 Aztek is ok (much improved). The 01 is pretty ugly though.
Looking very seriously at the Vibe (whenever the dealers get them in). Since I'm leaning towards to GT version, does anyone know if it offers traction control? If so, what type?
Saw my first Matrix up close and personal yesterday (at my local Toyota dealer). No slam on Toyota, but I really find the Matrix much less handsome than the Vibe.
For anyone interested, dealer had it on the showroom floor. It was the only one they had. No sticker was on it, but the salesman said they'd consider any offer over $23K for it.
Comments
Base Vibe with Power Group $16,940 (includes Cruise & Fog Lamps), Matrix XR $16,430 (with cruise contol at $250-edmunds price on 2002 Corolla). Toyota $500 advantage. GM Card earnings on Vibe - new style $1,000. Pontiac advantage $500. Not sure how other lesser features compare, just used the PDF downloads from both sites.
Let's say Toyota has not been as accommodating as other manufacturers when allowing some editors review their vehicles. They probably made them pay for the gas during the test drives.
Please don't quote me on the reason. I was unable to find the article in old Star issues. It was some time ago.
The P5 fully loaded (moonroof, abs, side airbags, CD-cassette, chrome alloys) tops out at around $19000. I priced a similarly equipped Vibe (with monochrome paint) and it looks to be aound $20.700.
You do get the 200 watt stereo for that price but that's about the only advantage equipment wise (P5 also has ground effects, spoiler, etc).
Still like the Vibe, but as the price passes 20 Grand it becomes less appealing. Just saw the Infiniti G35 sports sedan priced starting at $27.100 with 260HP, Auto., power everything, 6 disc CD. How do they do it?
Best reviewer in Canada is David Booth - National Post and Southam papers. He tells it like it is. Plus he's funny as hell. Best in the USA (aside from our friends here at Edmunds, of course) are the Lienerts from the Detroit News - they also are informative and amusing.
Dindak, press those Pontiac guys on prices; I cannot believe how slow they are in releasing this. The dealer I visited, SW Ontario, was totally clueless on the Vibe. I think trying to sell (or look at)the green Azzwreck harmed his grey matter.
Infiniti G35 looks hot too.
As my good old granny used to say, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch!" She used to have plenty of ORIGINAL sayings, too, but many of them would not be so appropriate here!
Looks like there will be a lot of 5-door competition by the time I need a new car: Aerio SX, Focus ZX5, Protege5, Matrix, Vibe, the old Golf, Elantra, maybe an ION, et al. I can't wait for the price&incentive wars!
With that kind of turning diameter you would have to be driving v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y!
I didn't read the article - but - did they mean turning radius? A 17.7 foot diameter would mean the turning radius is barely larger than the width of the Vibe.
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I have to say that I am astounded that Pontiac has managed to screw this presentation up. They have an anxiously awaited car (the first in a long, long time for them), so what do the boneheads do? They put both cars on inaccessible, view-only platforms. Of course, you could sit in as many bloody Asswrecks as you liked, right next to the Vibe in fact, but you could only look at the vehicle they will have on the market in a month. The Pontiac chick offered to get me info on the car, or let me sit in a 'Wreck, but I shook my head in disbelief and walked. You'd think after running a marketing company for Zarrella's tenure, they would be begging you to sit in their new model car. Nope. You can lead a horse to water.....
Impressions: The AWD really sits up high. I was pretty impressed with its external appearance but feel that there is too much 'Wreck cladding on it as a two-tone vehicle. The pumpkin car had painted cladding and looked much better (not the color, just the appearance and lack of obvious aztekness to it).
Chrysler Pacifica is a really, really nice looking car - if priced right it will sell really well. It looks like a wagon but is based on a minivan. The Pontiac Solstice vehicles were both nice; I really liked the blue convertible - if they bring it to market, it will send Pontiac off on a new (thank God) tangent of cladding-less, stylish cars. I really did not like the new Cadillac's including the CTS. Way too many square lines, that seem only to add clutter. When Mercedes or Beemer adds lines, creases etc., they often serve a function. These caddy designs are just really busy - seemed like what you would get by giving a kid a blank page and a crayon and asking them to fill in as much space as possible. Too bad.
The new Nissan Z and Mazda RX7 replacement both look nice. The Saab concepts didn't look very utilitarian, but looked cool nevertheless.
Best in show: Pacifica.
You're right. It's mind boggling that a month before intro they won't let you sit in the thing. Perhaps they could hire my 4 year old great niece for marketing since she obviously would have more sense than the present marketing staff.
Looking forward to seeing the G35 and the Pacifica in the flesh.
You said: "Best in show: Pacifica.
Have you had a chance to check our new Chrysler Pacifica discussion? As cb70 mentioned, I'm sure the folks in there would be interested in hearing your impressions. Happy motoring! ;-)
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The G35 is another really nive looking car. Sorry I forgot to mention it. Same with the GT40 Mustang - a really hot looking number, although there are 3 hood scoops (2 too many).
The Pacifica had beautiful flowing lines. I really liked the sides and back. The lines are what you would epect from BMW or Mercedes. My wife likes the front (like a 300M). Also, this thing is going to have satellite radio (100 national stations you can listen to anywhere you drive). DVD entertainment system. AWD or at least it is built to accommodate it. It is pretty big, and so should be roomy (it was view-only also, but, unlike Vibe, it was just unveiled and is not going to market in a month). It is tall - only 5 cm (2 inches) shorter than a minivan, but it doesn't look like a wally wagon.
Hummer2 is a big vehicle. I can imagine some dude pissed off in LA traffic going nuts in one of these things. Kind of like that famous stolen tank case in San Diego.
Many of the cars were locked - perhaps because it was late evening. Many, many cops on duty.
Check the Volvo S60 - it has a small back seat. Their new SUV looked nice from the outside. Clearly a Volvo vehicle.
Zircon, did you also check out the Matrix? Could you sit in it? Also, is that cladding on the Vibe really painted or is it actually unpainted vinyl cladding?
I also like the looks of the Pacifica. Not really a totally new idea really. To me it looks a lot like an Audi Avant. I suspect you'll see a 3'rd row seat in several AWD tall wagons soon. I know Subaru had a prototype of what they were calling a very low AWD van with 3 rows of seats...which was really a longer outback wagon. Still, with the Pacifica's looks, it should do well...not as well as the PT I think due to it's higher price.
Canadian Int'l Auto Show is next month so there should be some available there to sit in.
Zircon, did you also check out the Matrix? Could you sit in it? Also, is that cladding on the Vibe really painted or is it actually unpainted vinyl cladding?
I also like the looks of the Pacifica. Not really a totally new idea really. To me it looks a lot like an Audi Avant. I suspect you'll see a 3'rd row seat in several AWD tall wagons soon. I know Subaru had a prototype of what they were calling a very low AWD van with 3 rows of seats...which was really a longer outback wagon. Still, with the Pacifica's looks, it should do well...not as well as the PT I think due to it's higher price.
About 4 or 5 of the people said the new Pontiacs (solstice) were the dogs, with no best votes. I do not understand that. About 5 reviewers said the Cadillac roadster (XLR, I think) was the champ. So, while I really don't like the abrupt lines in the new caddy models, clearly they struck a note for some people.
They hated the Honda Pilot because of its manufacturer (remember this is Detroit), but IMO it is going to kill a lot of its competitors in quality and price.
My son also liked the new Nissan Quest minivan concept. Long body, dual narrow sunroofs running the length of the car, cool seating. The concept Mercedes minivan-wagon was also cool. I thought it had elements of Pacifica, though its rear sloped down from the back seat on.
No Mitsu minivans or tall wagons - a real shame - I loved my old Expo 2.4L 5-speed and they had a really cool concept at last year's show.
I agree with you on the Pilot. It will have great quality, but it's really boring. Much prefer the Pathfinder and Trailblazer.
I liked the interior overall. Seat trim is subdued and nothing fancy but doesn't look cheap either. Use of aluminum-like trim also raises the level of the appearance. Seats seemed reasonably comfortable and I didn't find any ergonomic negatives. I'd rate the interior 7 on a scale of 10. One thing is for sure compared to the Vue interior this thing is a Rolls Royce. I just glanced in the Vue and the plastic and seat trim are in a word horrible. It just reaks cheap.
As for the Matrix itself, it was a dark blue which somewhat mutes the severe character line but I still prefer the Vibe styling. The Matrix looks like an elephant sat on the rear of the roof.
I had a number of disappointments. I really thought the G35 was going to be my next car, but I was totally underwhelmed when I saw it in person. I think the styling is rather bland and the interior isn't that exciting either.
The Pacifica also looks better in pictures than in person in my opinion.
It just looked like a slightly taller station wagon, although the interior was quite attractive.
The car of the show for me was the Mazda 6 Hatchback which was on display in the form of a Japanese RHD version with oversized wheels and blacked out windows. I hate spoilers but this car looked great even with one.
Surprise favorite of the show for me was the Mini. Sure there cute, but as a practical transport I figured no way. Well surprisingly, I discovered that the Mini will be availbale with an automatic (a CVT, no less) and the thing is cooler than cool. The interior is like nothing else on the planet and while I may be a geriatric (57), I'm single so a small car like this is doable. My sanity may get the better of me at some point but I have to tell you I'm tempted. Let's just say the Mini display was far and away the most crowded at the show.
And last but not least, an old standby, the PT Cruiser. Still looks great, is cheap and roomy inside.
In case anyone from Pontiac is reading this board - those of us who need AWD need it for a reason, and probably need a bigger engine or a manual tranny!
I agree that the AWD version sounds very bad; I've heard 0-60 in 11.5s or worse and those tests are usually performed with brake-stands on autos so for your average person merging onto the highway it will be even slower. It is almost 3000lbs but has only 123 hp and 117 lb-ft of torque _AND_ it has an AWD drivetrain which has lower efficiency than a 2WD drivetrain. Locking torque converters on modern automatics are great for gas mileage while cruising, today giving very similar (sometimes even better) highway mileage than a stick-shift but while accelerating you still lose power to the torque converter until it locks up in 3rd or 4th.
I'll be looking at the base 2WD version myself but also at competitors which are lighter with 2.0L 140hp engines.
Haven't driven them yet, although I'd like to drive the FWD base Vibe - if it feels like it has adequate torque (ie not unsafe), I may go for it. THe interior is quite nice and I love the utility of it. The hard plastic rear and fold flat seats provide some great utility. It may be just what I need to get the utility of an SUV but still get the handling and fuel economy of a car.
Toyo has priced their car aggressively, much more so I suspect than GM wanted. If an Asswreck could be priced for up to $41,000 Can. (yup, that was the MSRP of a fully loaded 'wreck when they came out), surely the Vibe was worth 38K.
When, on when will they announce their $$.
Second, have you considered that having a moonroof may not be the best idea in combination with the nav system. With the roof open I bet the sun makes the system unreadable with the direct sunlight. I can hear the complaints already and GM/Toyota must have figured this out too.
On the other side, one must wonder why Toyota low balled the price here on the Matrix? Doesn't really make sense to price a car (that will likely sell out regardless) too low. You can bet Toyota will not be negotiating prices though.
By the way, I think the 02 Aztek is ok (much improved). The 01 is pretty ugly though.
Saw my first Matrix up close and personal yesterday (at my local Toyota dealer). No slam on Toyota, but I really find the Matrix much less handsome than the Vibe.
For anyone interested, dealer had it on the showroom floor. It was the only one they had. No sticker was on it, but the salesman said they'd consider any offer over $23K for it.