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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • phkckphkck Posts: 185
    We have a 2002 T&C warranty, but the 7/100 only covers powertrain. You have to upgrade to the bumper to bumper. We wanted to make sure that things like the power lift gate and sliding doors were covered so we upgraded.
    Honda's B/B warranty is cheaper for 7/100 than our upgrade.
    FWIW Paul
  • dchoppdchopp Posts: 256
    On my two recent trips to Las Vegas , I rented two different D/C Sports. One came with power doors and one with out. I found the power doors are to slow and the nonpower doors closed on their own with a flip of a latch. I like the idea of being able to close them at the speed I want and no expensive motors to replace. I had no trouble opening the tailgate either.
    Just my 2 cents--DCH
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    We do NOT want power sliding doors or power liftgate. That is why we would get either the Odyssey LX, or the GC / T&C eL.
    Cast wheels look nice but we would prefer to keep the $$$ and get the nice wheel covers instead.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    Jan 15th: Imports vs. Domestics: Is there a quality gap?


    image

  • dchoppdchopp Posts: 256
    Hello again Carleton. I remember you back in 1999 anxiously waiting
    The arrival of your Odyssey when all of a sudden you bid everyone goodbye and announced you just bought a Dodge Caravan. I had a 2000 Odyssey on order for 5 month
    And when it got down to the last month, my wife announced she didn’t want the van anymore. She wanted an SUV. It must be a women’s thing. After renting a few vans, she liked them and told me, I can have the SUV and she wants a van. I always wanted the Odyssey, but after renting a few D.C., I am at the cross roads on what to buy. I read your comments on the 2002 Odyssey. I only wish Chrysler had that disappearing third seat.
    That seat would come in handy as I travel across the U.S. visiting my kids. I would hate to leave it at home to make room for our entire luggage and then wish I had it when I arrived at my destination. I will have to take another look at the Chrysler Vans at the auto show next month. BTW my Suv and my Wife are up for sale.
    DCH
  • Since the weather is keeping business slow, you might have the time to check out the latest news reports re: DC minivans catching fire. It seems there is an easy fix but Chrysler has been slow about doing the fixing. The Sienna has apparently also had a fire problem, although it hasn't been to quite the same extent as the DC minivans. No matter what people say to trash the Odyssey, no one has ever claimed they are fire traps.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    The Odyssey would be the logical choice and the Magic Seat would fit your needs. On the other hand, you can get extra space in the DC minivans by sliding the one piece rear seat forward and folding it flat or fold and tumble the 50/50 rear seat forward. However, you would not get as much total room for luggage keeping all seats in the DC as you will with the Odyssey.
    Each van has advantages and either is a good choice.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    I'm curious, when was the last time you saw a Chrysler, Dodge, or Plymouth minivan burst into flames?
  • dkrabdkrab Posts: 77
    My '91 Plymouth Grand Voyager with the 3.3L engine would certainly have "burst into flames" if I had not noticed the smell of gasoline. It was leaking fuel in EXACTLY the same location as described in the Detroit News article:


    http://www.detnews.com/2001/autosconsumer/0112/16/a01-368263.htm


    What really bothers me, I mean REALLY bothers me, is the fact that Chrylser is forced to recall only the 96-00 model years. Obviously, they have lied to the government by telling them the '95 and older vans are somehow different. The body is different, sure, but the drivetrain is THE SAME. Either the NHTSA is too understaffed or just too stupid to know better. Chrysler should be forced to recall ALL 3.3L and 3.8L, no matter how old. It's not just a simple defect, it is a safety risk. And it affects them ALL.


    Chrysler is counting on it's customers to be so uninformed as to believe the '95 and older vans are not affected by this issue. THEY ARE! It's as if they want you to believe that the '96 vans were completely different from the ground up. I am truly insulted by that. It's not even a clever lie.


    Sorry to get on my soapbox about this, but it really infuriates me that a car company would be willing to risk lives to save money, and at the same time insult it's own customers (I know, welcome to the real world). I know that most of them don't leak gas, but it is beyond question that they have a greater potential to leak than most other fuel rail designs. Chrysler has acknowledged this with their proposed fix. Come on, DaimlerChrysler, do the right thing by your past customers! Spend the money to foster goodwill. You will reap benefits later. If these companies (it isn't just DC) would just stop living quarter to quarter, maybe they would fair better against foreign competition.


    Thanks for letting me vent.

  • wholiganwholigan Posts: 148
    Just wanted to let you all know how completely entertained I am by this discussion! I had been off the web for a couple of weeks and the SPOON comments were fabulous!

    My daddy is bigger than yours! He He!

    Everybody relax - its a discussion about a frickin car. In the scope of what is important in life, does it even matter?
    2003 Honda Odyssey EX-LRES - Midnight Blue Pearl
    2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
    2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
    2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
  • dchoppdchopp Posts: 256
    Hi again. I plan to put that third seat to the test at the Autoshow. Then I will see if it fits my needs. I sure do like there looks. I also like the fact that I can put in the acc. that I want with out having to step up to another model and getting crap I don't want like power doors and climate control. Have you looked at all at the Ford Windstars?--DCH
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    Our DC dealers never had any brochures to look at and I had not seen the Odyssey when we started looking seriously at minivans in January 1999. The GM FWD troika were unappealing, the Quest/Villager and Sienna a little too small, so we looked at Windstars which we liked very well except it was very difficult to get into 3rd seat.
    We were negotiating a trade and the used car manager would not believe me when I told him our 91 Astro CL had never been in a wreck and we got it NEW. His arrogant attitude caused us to walk.
    We had decided to get the Odyssey but with a 5 month waiting list we got a 99 GC SE instead. We have been very pleased with our GC but I feel we would have liked the Odyssey just as much.
    We are going to look at all minivans side by side at the Annual Auto Show this month. It will be fun to sit in and compare all of them under one roof once more. We test drove a Kia Sedona and were favorably impressed with the power, the smooth quiet ride, and the entire van. However, the Sedona feels about the size of the short Caravan/Voyager, Sienna, Quest/Villager.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    Closely compared minivans again where all were under one roof.
    DaimlerChrysler had the most variety with 4 T&C (LX, LXi, LXi AWD, Limited), Voyager eC, Caravan eC, and 4 Grand Caravan (eL, eX, Sport, and Sport AWD). Most brands were represented by only one model: Odyssey EX-RES, Sienna Symphony, Windstar SEL, Mazda MPV EX, Venture WB, Montana Extended Length 7 pass, Silhouette Premiere, Eurovan MV (camper), Quest ?, Villager ?. There were 2 Sedona: an LX and EX with leather.
    Each minivan has nice features. Eurovan has by far the most interior volume while MPV, Quest, Villager, Sienna and Sedona felt the smallest with Voyager/Caravan almost as small.
    For us it is a difficult decision between Odyssey LX or GC eL / T&C eL. The Odyssey has much more cargo space behind 3rd seat, the most powerful engine with 5 speed transmission and the Magic Seat. However, the GC / T&C eL have Triple Zone Temperature Control, complete overhead console with compass/outside temperature/Trip Computer, and the padded armrests on front doors.
    I talked to the Honda salesman who took a customer on a test drive of the 2002 Odyssey EX-NAV-Lthr on December 29 just after we drove it. The customer has ordered a 2002 Odyssey EX and will be trading in his 2000 Odyssey EX. Used Odysseys are selling for as much as they did new.
  • dchoppdchopp Posts: 256
    Thanks for the info on the Vans. Somehow I wasn't surprised that you narrowed it down to the Odyssey and the T&C.Its my choice also. I will be driving to Cleveland, OH in March to attend their Auto Show.They have over 900,000 sq ft of space and about 1000 auto's on display. They feature the present and the future vehicles and I am looking forward to seeing the hybrid vehicles comming out in the near future.
  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    I own a 99 Odyssey and have previously owned a 96 DC. I recently went on a business trip and was offered an 02 Ford Windstar at the same price I was quoted for a mid size car. I took the Windstar ( it was an SE) as I had never driven one before. It had 7 miles on it when I left the lot.
    It is not even in the same league as the Odyssey or DC. The seats reminded me of my old 68 VW bug. They were firm, unpadded and rather cheap. The driver's seat could be electrically adjusted further from the steering wheel and pedals than either the ODY or DC. This may be an advantage for very tall drivers. The steering for such a new van was sloppy. It seemed to wander a bit in lanes. This was my biggest complaint. The brakes were progressive and had a good feel to them but weren't any thing outstanding as far as stopping the van. The acceleration and cruise control were quite good. It had a tire air pressure system that I had never experienced on another van. In general, it seemed that a lot of corners had been cut, giving an overall cheap impression.
    I have rented a few newer DC short version vans and have been very favorably impressed by them. The Ford left me unimpressed.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hi gang,

    I have been following this board for a few weeks now as my wife and I are about to trade in our 1998 GC Sport (3.8). I am spending the week here in Taipei and given the Japanese car centric nature of the car population I was surprised to see not so much as a single Odyssey here, however, in less than 24 hours, I have seen dozens of DC (short wheel base) vans. What gives, is the Odyssey just a U.S. only product?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Could they have been rental vans? DC sells lots of vehicles to the rental fleets, where as Honda sells none. One of the reasons why Honda vehicles have a higher resale.
  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    The older pre-99 Odyssey is still made and sold abroad. It is a shorter version than the 99 Odyssey. The Honda Odyssey is called Le Grand in Japan.
    But Carleton is right. The Ford Windstar was the only non DC van I ever saw for rent. All the other vans I 've rented have been the short DC version. I had the luck to get a Sport DC van in Denver last Summer .I even took it up Pike's Peak.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I know DC vans are the best selling but my guess is that most short wheel base DC vans go to rental fleets, that was why I answered it that way, not to get you wound up.
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    I was visiting Hong Kong a couple of months back. To my surprise, the Ody over there is still the 4 doors version and I think they do have the sliding doors version but it is called something else. Also, the minivan market over there is dominated by Toyota (great styling, I wish they bring that style to the US) and Honda. You will also see a few Meceredes' minivan from time to time (one ugly minivan!) but all vans are short wheel base (I guess people there don't carry plywood nor sofa). DC products is not being sold in Hong Kong.
    Here is the link for the pic of the Toyota:
    http://www.crown-motors.com/toyota/previa/intro.htm
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "The GC eL and T&C eL has MSRP LOWER than the Ody LX and has many nice comfort and convenience items not had on the Ody LX. When we weigh the nice extras of a DC eL against the extra power, cargo, and Magic Seat of the Ody LX, for our money the DC is the winner."

    The 240 HP, 242 ft-lb engine alone puts the Odyssey into a different class. The 3.3L 180 HP, 210 ft-lb V6 on the GC eL seems more in league with Windstar or the GM minivans.

    Among other things not found standard on the eL:

    -5-speed automatic transmission
    -Convenient folding 3rd row seat
    -Standard lap&shoulder seatbelt in all positions
    -Seatbelts with switchable locking retractor for convenient carseat installation.
    -Standard side airbags with automatic child disable feature
    -Standard 4-wheel disc brakes with traction control
    -Standard 5-star crash results in all NHTSA tests, a "Good" rating in the IIHS offset crash test, and a 4-star rollover rating with the highest SSF of all minivans.

    For our money, there are enough other differences to make it an easy choice. Sure, there isn't 3-zone air control, a trip computer or padded armrest, but different things are important to different families. Your mileage may vary, obviously. Good luck with your choice.
  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    I have the 210HP, 4 speed, 99 Odyssey. Where do I fit in ? ;)
    There are quite a few features that the DC vans have that also do not appear on the Odyssey.
    The Infinity sound system is really great. The Odyssey sound system is Windstar category.
    How about the roof rack ? You need a step ladder and a torx bit to adjust the ODY roof rack. The heated windshield under the wipers, the auto door locking at 16 MPH, and the adjustable rear window wiper are all features I wish my ODY had.
    I have rented many DC vans newer than the 96 I owned. There have been many improvements in the DC vans over the 6 years. Competition helps us all. I would like to take the best features of the Odyssey and DC and make one van with all the best features. DC should do the styling.
    One other thing I have noticed common to the ODY and DC (and 1 Windstar), under full acceleration, all will spin the front tires on dry, level pavement. The limiting factor on max acceleration from a stop seems to be the tires. I never had any complaint with the 3.3 L engine in the 96 DC van I owned entering Interstates, passing, etc.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    I have the same engine and transmission as you. Guess we are somewhere in between...

    Like I said, everyone will obviously have different priorities for their money.

    I thought Carleton1's comparison was too simplistic. Hopefully, anyone comparing the two vehicles will do careful research on their own instead of taking our words for it:-)
  • dave210dave210 Posts: 238
    Carleton obviously feels the T&C eL is the best choice for him. He has had access to both a DC van and a Honda van for a good year to make good comparisons for himself.

    It's not as if he hasn't driven a 2001 Honda Odyssey EX or a new 2002 Honda Odyssey EX-L Navi to REALLY decide which fits his needs better.

    You value the Honda name, the good reliability, and the good safety, and if everyone only valued those three things, people would only be driving the Honda van, BMW/Mercedes/Acura/ SUV's, Volkswagen Passats and so on. Not a bad thing at all, because they are all phenomenal vehicles in my opinion, but there are other cars out there for a reason.....choice.

    If he chose the new T&C for padded armrests and triple zone air, more power to him, because he was given the freedom to do so.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    "The 240 HP, 242 ft-lb engine alone puts the Odyssey into a different class. The 3.3L 180 HP, 210 ft-lb V6 on the GC eL seems more in league with Windstar or the GM minivans."

    I'm not so sure about that, caviller. Carelton has driven more of these minivans with different powertrains than just about anyone here on this board. He has driven two Odyssey's with both the 210hp and 240hp VTEC V6 engines, a Grand Caravan with the 158hp V6 and a new 2002 Town & Country with the updated 180hp V6. And I'd be willing to bet that if you asked him which was the best engine, he would tell you that they all have their high and low points.

    Yea, sure, the Odyssey has a 240hp V6 for 2002 vs the 215hp found in the Chrysler minivans. According to many reviews, the Odyssey does not have very much low end power and takes some time to get going, which cannot be said about the lower horsepower Chrysler V6s. I bet the "puny" 156hp 3.3 V6 in my 2000 Town & Country could beat a 2002 Odyssey off the line. But as for racing with a 240hp Odyssey above 60mph, that's another story...

    My point is, just because Honda has a 240hp engine in it's van doesn't mean it totally leaves the competition in "a different class." That 3.5 V6 has its high points and low points just as everything else does. And as for features, there are a ton of features that Honda doesn't offer that DC minivans do. Mostly in the comfort and convienence departments.

    Where can I find a stock Odyssey with heated memory drivers seats, steering wheel radio controls, adjustable foot pedals, suede interior, heated windows/mirrors galore, power liftgate, tri zone climate control, power center console, trip computer, and more all wrapped in beautiful sheetmetal? Keep looking my friends, keep looking...

    -Adam
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    the Odyssey does not come with padded armrest. Why not? I have no clue...
  • rearareara Posts: 2
    I recently replaced 98 G.Voyager SE with 02 Ody EX. Well, 4 year difference and $2k more MSRP gave Ody a lot more features; power dual sliding door, power driver's seat, high hp engine, traction control, magic seat, CD, etc.

    However, what I liked most in Ody is 'wider front window' and 'wider side mirror', which gives me a better command of view. This is a kind of unexpected surprise. I am really happy with the new car. On the other hand, what I missed are 1) automatic door lock over around 15 MPH, and 2) dual temp control for front seat passenger.

    Well, G.Voyager was also a nice car, and I liked it a lot, especially for the first 3 years. No issue there. Strangely enough, though, all the troubles came out after the 3-year warranty expired. Is the vehicle programmed this way?
  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    The Odyssey does have better (lower) 0-60 times than other vans. It has a VTEC engine. Below 3500 rpm it gives much better gas mileage than at over 3500 when there is a noticable increase in power. So if a reviewer did not know that, it might seem slow off the line.
    My 99 Odyssey does cruise real smoothly at 80, with plenty of acceleration left (I have had it over 100). I have 51K miles on it, and it runs just like it did new.
    The EX that I have does have audio controls on the steering wheel for it's puny (relative to a DC Infinity) sound system The LX did not have the steering wheel audio controls in 99, at least. That may have changed in later years.
    As I have posted, I owned a 96 DC and have rented a few newer ones. I have to say that DC has addressed one of my complaints about the 96 on the newer vans. The head lights are so much better now.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "Carleton obviously feels the T&C eL is the best choice for him. He has had access to both a DC van and a Honda van for a good year to make good comparisons for himself."

    I completely agree.

    "It's not as if he hasn't driven a 2001 Honda Odyssey EX or a new 2002 Honda Odyssey EX-L Navi to REALLY decide which fits his needs better"

    I never said otherwise. In fact, I repeatedly said different things will be important to different people.

    "You value the Honda name, the good reliability, and the good safety,"

    Please don't put words in my mouth.

    Actually, 'Name' does not factor into my decision at all. I think brand loyalty and perceptions are overrated and often misleading. We've owned a Subaru, Chrysler, two Saturns and two Hondas in the last 10 years or so. All have been good vehicles. I'd buy any one of them (or any other) if it met my needs.

    As for reliability, please reference any of my previous posts where I have stated that I don't think there is much difference among most new vehicles.

    You are correct about safety, however. It is my #1 priority in a vehicle purchase.

    "and if everyone only valued those three things, people would only be driving the Honda van, BMW/Mercedes/Acura/ SUV's, Volkswagen Passats and so on. Not a bad thing at all, because they are all phenomenal vehicles in my opinion, but there are other cars out there for a reason.....choice.

    If he chose the new T&C for padded armrests and triple zone air, more power to him, because he was given the freedom to do so."


    I agree. I'm glad there is choice, it only makes the competition improve. Again, I never said or implied otherwise.

    In fact, I'm glad Carleton1 posted what was important to him. It's nice that I have the freedom to post what is important to me, also. Now anyone reading this forum as part of their research gets both sides. Everyone wins.

    Cheers.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "I'm not so sure about that, caviller. Carelton has driven more of these minivans with different powertrains than just about anyone here on this board. He has driven two Odyssey's with both the 210hp and 240hp VTEC V6 engines, a Grand Caravan with the 158hp V6 and a new 2002 Town & Country with the updated 180hp V6. And I'd be willing to bet that if you asked him which was the best engine, he would tell you that they all have their high and low points."

    Point well taken. In fact, I have not driven any of the 2002 models. On the other hand, I did find the 2001 Odyssey LX to be much peppier than the 3.3L 2001 GC I drove (test drive and rental). Consumer Reports did also, incidentally. The 205 HP Odyssey (EX) beat the 3.3L 180 HP Sport by 0.1 second from 0-30mph, 1.5 seconds 0-60, 0.6 seconds 45-65, and 0.9 seconds in the quarter mile.

    Please keep in mind that Carleton1 was comparing the Odyssey LX to the GC eL, which does not have the 215 hp 3.8 V6. If you do find any comparison showing the 180 hp, 3.3L 180 HP GC beating the 240HP Odyssey off-the-line, please post it. Those are the models we were comparing.
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