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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans



  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    Thank you. But I'd like to compare March to March. Wasn't stow and go introduced around April of last year?
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Yes Stow and Go came in about April 2004 if I remember correctly. I don't know of any site that gives March to March numbers. This site lists calendar YTD 2005, YTD 2004, and March 2005 compared to March 2004. In any case, the first quarter 2004 could be considered all 2004 models for sure.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    March 05 to March 04 is 28% increase:

    Sales of Chrysler Group minivans, the industry sales leader and the only minivans with the exclusive Stow 'n Go seating system surged 28 percent to 41,015 units, surpassing previous year sales of 30,817 units. Chrysler Town & Country sales increased 32 percent to 16,262 units compared to 11,881 units last year. Dodge Caravan posted sales of 24,753 units, an increase of 26 percent over March 2004 sales of 18,936 units.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    In any case, the first quarter 2004 could be considered all 2004 models for sure.

    That's true, but it's also possible that they slowed down/stopped production of 2004's a couple of months beforehand to build up inventory on the stow n go equipped 2005's.

    In any case, yes DC's sales are up over 20%. Are their profits up? That's more important - capturing market share is easy if you are willing to forgo that pesky profitability.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    And the Sienna sales are DOWN for 2005 YTD and March 2005 is also DOWN from February 2005?
    The sales success of the 2005 Caravan/Grand Caravan and Town & Country is quite remarkable. ;)
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Frankly, as a consumer I don't really care all that much whether a manufacturer's profits are high, as long as they stay in business as a going viable operation and I can count on being able to get service and parts if needed in the future.

    Profits are not a dirty word either, but if a manufacturer is willing to cut their profit margins for whatever reason, this is to my benefit. If they can offer me a vehicle I want at a competitive price and they make a lot of profit, more power to them.
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,441
    If profits aren't as high as manufacturer likes though, may influence their decision in quality of parts they put in their well as other cost cutting measures which 'could' negatively influence the overall quality and reliability of their vehicles.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    And to add a little more - poor profits lead to poor stock price and most of us have some sort of investment vehicle. Further, poor profits lead to potential closing of plants, more offshore outsourcing....

    If they can offer me a vehicle I want at a competitive price and they make a lot of profit, more power to them. Just wait until Caravans are coming out of Mexico...
  • denver5357denver5357 Posts: 319
    If you are saying sales of DC have increased vs. past sales of DC, that's fine. What I was pointing out was that a significant portion of ALL sales of DCs and other domestic vans are fleet sales.

    It doesn't matter whether a fleet sales buyer wants stow n go or not. US fleet sales are driven by the belief that those who buy fleets (universities, governments, other entities) must "buy American." Find a fleet buyer for a city who can buy, say, a Honda Ody because the long-term costs are lower ... nearly impossible.
  • denver5357denver5357 Posts: 319
    "What hasn't been there for years is the big increase in sales. That came with Stow N Go. It had been in steady decline previously. "

    But if the only significant change in a van whose sales, as you mention, had been declining was a feature that is about convenience (stow n go, which I still wonder how useful it really is for owners with young kids), isn't that ... marketing? People are shows a convenience for a product in which other factors are more important (safety, reliability, performance), are told it is convenient, and all of a sudden they start buy the same van they shunned before? That's marketing.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    People are shows a convenience for a product in which other factors are more important (safety, reliability, performance), are told it is convenient, and all of a sudden they start buy the same van they shunned before? That's marketing. <<

    I'm not sure exactly what you meant, something was missing in the sentence.

    I guess DC will now market their great crash test scores, to answer any safety doubters.

    Most of what is sold today is based on marketing.
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,441
    It would be interesting to know how much DC has spent on advertising of its minivans this year as opposed to last year..pre stow-n-go.(I'd guesstimate it being double) As well as how much fleet sales, versus indiviual consumer sales, are responsible for the large sales increase. Anyone have any numbers on this?

    About the only minivans I ever see advertised(t.v/magazines) are the Honda Ody and the Dodge Caravans.Nissan Quest rare. Kia Sedona only on the radio(constantly it seems). G.M's minis...rare.Toyota Sienna...a few magazines...never on t.v. Mazda MPV...never.

    Right now it may be that Chrysler isn't selling the's selling the sizzle. This time next year we will have the answer.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I find it quite interesting that so many Honda owners are trying to put down Chrysler vans as being so inferior to Honda's and Toyotas. While I admit they look better inside and have new engines and transmissions, that doesn't mean older is worse. Honda, with the new engine and tranny is still only less than a second faster than the Dodge in the quarter mile and only gets one -two miles mpg better in gas mileage. Doesn't quite justify the millions spent to develop them.

    While the Honda has a new body on it, it's not quieter nor does it run smoother than the Dodge. Nor does the air conditioning run colder. The Dodge has a much better sound system in it and doesn't rattle like the Honda. The Dodge is also not plagued by doors that won't close as many of the Honda's are.

    So even though you Honda owners would like to believe your van is the greatest thing since apple pie, it just isn't so. Even though you see a lot more people complaining about Chrysler made vans, you must remember that there are millions more of them on the road than Honda's or Toyotas. If honda had sold as many as Chrysler, I would guarantee you would see a lot more people complain about Hondas. There are enough people complaining about them now, and they are brand new.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    Chrysler does have a newer engine. The 3.5L in the Pacifica...I'm just not sure why they don't put in in the Dodge/TC.

    The 3.5L V6 and the 5speed from the 300C (MB tranny) would make it much more "drive train" competitive...although the price may go up (probably).
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Only 4076 Sedona's sold in March 2005 and only 11,616 YTD and even fewer Mazda MPV (1452) sold in March and 4513 YTD...How can they afford to advertise with so few vehicles sold?
    Meanwhile there were 24,753 Caravan sold in March and 57,665 YTD with T&C selling more than either the Odyssey or Sienna. (16,262 T&C March and 43,849 YTD).
    DC minivans are INCREASING sales in 2005 while the Sedona, MPV, and Sienna sales are DECREASING for both the month of March 2005 and YTD 2005.
    Fortunately for Honda, the Odyssey sales have increased for both the month of March 2005 and YTD even though more T&C were sold in March 2005 than Odyssey.
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,441
    Remember that Mazda commercial that ran a couple months ago. Aired several times during the Super Bowl. A couple guys in white lab coats from Nissan, Honda and Toyota standing in a Mazda showroom full of people asking," What do they have that we don't have? "The reply,"The Mazda Tribute, the Mazda RX-8, and the Mazda 3...and they also don't have...ZOOM ZOOM ZOOOM"(the Mazda theme tune)
    Mazda could have easily shown the MPV. Maybe, having it full of the New England Patriot cheerleaders or something....waving their pom poms and singing the Zoom Zoom song. I don't think I knew the MPV even existed until I started my minivan search. People can't buy it if they don't know it's out there.They may be saving their advertising dollars for the Mazda 5 and the new Mazda MPV if and when it comes out.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    Stow N Go is great. I have 3 1/2 and 1 1/2 year old girls. I dont understand why some think its an issue removing the car seats to stow the seats. It takes 10 seconds to remove or replace the car seat. The 3 1/2 year is in a booster that is not secured to the seat so that takes 2 seconds. Would I rather leave the car seats attached to the seat and remove the seats entirely? Hell no! My back hurts just thinking about it .... and where do you put the seats? My garage is jam packed. Stow n Go is GREAT!
  • Is the 230hp engine still there??? :surprise:
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    The MPV has been around since the late 80's, hasn't it? People don't know it's out there? :confuse:
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,441
    In the late 80's and early 90's the MPV was in SUV form Mr. Blonde. I'm assuming people don't know much about the MPV because you rarely see them advertised. Maybe the image Mazda tries to create with their Zoom Zoom/sporty car campaign doesn't coincide well with people who are looking for minivans. The move towards bigger minivans hasn't helped their sales either. In my biased opinion it is an excellent minivan at a very good price.
  • denver5357denver5357 Posts: 319
    I was one of the people who had the Chrysler T&C among my final two vans before selecting the Honda Ody, for various reasons.

    I agree that the older and proven DC/T&C engine/design has fewer bugs at this point than the brand new model Honda Ody. That's logical.

    The real test will be in five years, when one considers 1) reliability and 2) resale value.
  • denver5357denver5357 Posts: 319
    "I dont understand why some think its an issue removing the car seats to stow the seats. It takes 10 seconds to remove or replace the car seat."

    You must be one of those 5 percent of American car seat parents who can put them in properly each time. More than 90 percent of the time, car seats are incorrectly installed, according to car seat material info.

    We have a newborn and a 3.5 year old (who uses a full car seat because he hasn't yet hit the 40 lb. point for a convertible seat) and installing even one seat is 20-30 minutes of sweating and grunting.

    If I want to haul something that requires the second row of seats to do down, I use a different car.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Posts: 421
    Well, we don't have the Stow-N-Go seats, but we use both a booster and toddler car seat all the time. It takes no time to place or remove both car seats. I would have to say that it takes more effort then time to take out the car seats and captain chairs. (We have four kids). :shades:
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    It will be fun in a year or so, listening to these Honda owners that have been doing nothing but down playing Chrysler's stow-n-go seats, talk about how much softer and nicer the Honda stow-n-go seats are than Chrysler's You'll hear how convenient they are to have stow-n-go. You just know it's coming.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 19,603
    I just hope Honda can figure out how to make the seats so they aren't buckboard hard!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Do the hard (firm) seats of the Odyssey cause the loss of many sales? :cry:
    The Odyssey has ALWAYS had harder (firmer) seats than the DC minivans until the 2nd and 3rd row for Stow N Go were introduced with a new, firmer foam. I like the 1999-2001 Odyssey seats best of all minivans ;) because they are hard (firm) and have little curvature in the seat and the seat back. Better yet were the bench seats of full size American sedans before rear wheel drive was abandoned.
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Posts: 461
    It looks like Honda can't get the front seats right on the new ODY's. Let's hope they do a much better job if they use Chrysler's Sto-N-Go seating arrangement.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 19,603
    About seat comfort are right here, in these forums.

    Of course, these forums are a magnet for people who want to complain.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Posts: 421
    I think the comfort will vary from model, trim level and year of each minivan. I know that Daimlerchrysler minivans seat design and comfort in all rows vary depending on which trim line you have. If you don't believe me, do a search on ebay and look at the pictures of various minivans to see for yourself. Although I have not sat in everyone of Daimlerchrysler minivans or Hondas for that matter, I can say that are seats are very firm and comfortable in both front and rear row. Our 3rd row 50/50 bench seat is okay. But I guess I'm just use to sitting in the captain chairs. Seat comfort really depends on the person though, personal preference. :P
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Posts: 461
    Chryslers Sto-N-Go seats can't be beat. I rented a D/C van last month and drove it to DC area to drop off some furniture and pick up family members for the trip back. Couldn't have done it in any other van without having 2nd and 3rd row seats disappear for the trip down and pop back up when coming home. Great idea, great van.

    I rode in the 2nd row seats coming back and it wasn't as good as the fronts, but was more comfortable that the front seats in the Ody I sat in.

    I am not complaining about the Odys seats, some people take an observation the wrong way. My next van will have the Sto-N-Go arrangement.
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