Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

pacinpelo

Hello owners,
I am considering on of these two along with the Explorer XLT. Ther are pros and cons on each vehicle. But those of you who own the XL or EXT what has your experience been. Yes they seem large...do they ride as large as they look.

Other thoughts?

xntrick

I wasn't very clear. I took the vehicle in for a couple fo things and this was one of them. They replaced the seal and re-lubricated I assume. I am wondering with the mileage and assuming that I drove it from the beginning with the leak, what kind of damage has taken place (yes I'm asking for speculation since I anticipate purchasing this soon). Regards.

envoy_xl_in_pa

Here is my 2 cents on the differences between the vehicles. I own an Envoy XL SLT, and I drive rental Explorers on a pretty frequent basis - I travel for a living. I feel that the Explorer really handles and rides like a "truck". The XL rides much smoother, and just has a more luxurious feel to it. Ours is an SLT, loaded to the gills with everything but the DVD (can't get the DVD and the factory sunroof on the same truck). The XL rides very smooth for its length, and having driven the normal Envoy as well, the extra length seems to help soften the bumps. I also have the air suspension, so that may help too. We looked at the TB EXT, and in our opinion, the Envoy had more "luxury" and even the loaded up trailblazers looked more "basic" inside. That plastic fake wood trim in the Envoy made my wife like the it better than the trailblazer.

Just my opinions though - I am sure you will hear from more than just me. Happy shopping. Don't let the lemons discourage you - We had a few "fit and finish" items that were resolved in one trip to the dealer, and other than that I have only had the tailgate gasket installed, as well as one set of front suspension sway bar links. Other than that, we are extremely pleased at 4 months and 5000 miles of ownership. Gas mileage is improving too, as the engine ages, if that makes any sense to people. We have a very low VIN 02 Envoy XL, with a build date of 02/02. Maybe they got some of the early XLs right, unlike the early 02 triplets.

dshepherd3

xntrick, I assume you are referring the the rear differential pinion seal, if so there are 2 quarts of oil in the diff. so you shouldn't have any long term effects from that leak.

mfullmer

Well, it's been a while since I posted on here. I believe it was July or August when my dealer finally fixed the wandering mirrors and cracked rear tailgate seal (By the way, I haven't seen any posts about that problem. Has anyone else noticed their tailgate seal tearing??)

So, today I go to start it and I hear a load click but thats it. Onstar was (and has been all along) useless and could get no reading on the vehicle although the battery was giving out juice. In any case, after a flat-bed ride to the dealership I'm now driving a Dodge mini-van (yuck!).

I really did love this vehicle when I bought it but now I'm embarassed by how often I have to drive a rental for days on end and the squeaks, rattles and knocking that come from it. I've always been pretty lucky with 3 year leases but I don't think I can keep this that long. Mine was delivered 5/01 and I'm thinking of using one of the "lease-buyout" programs to sell the lease to someone else. I just can't take it anymore.

The new Expedition looks nice...

boat10

boy, it must be da-ja-vue all over, yesterday(10/2) I had the same problem. Insert key, one click, no response. I punch On-Star (have plenty of power for that), young lady comes on and wants to know if she can help me. "YES MAM", vehicle will not start, can you please run diagonistic for me...NO MR. XXXXX,"YOUR MOTOR IS NOT RUNNING"
So I ask her why am I spending $200.00 per year for this service and she says: "THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM".
To make things worse (BETTER) I put heavy duty battery charger on and let charge for 10 or 15 minutes...Vehicle starts..I decide to take to my dealer..two blocks from the dealership, LT quits in the middle of the road and RIGHT FRONT TIRE GOES FLAT!!!!!!!.
Ended up putting new battery in, all seems fine right now. Have LT with build date od 6-01 and have really had no problems..other the reprogram of the PCM 4 different times for the HARD
transmission down shifts. Other than these quirky events, I really like the vehicle...Sorry for the long post, but found it interesting that two vehicles on the same day having the same problem.

anonymous02

I have been keeping an eye on this board.

It looks like, between the lack of offroad ability, and the numerous problems, that the Trailblazer is coming off my consideration list.

"Hellooooo Trooper! Hellooooo Liberty! Hellooooo Grand Cherokee! Hellooooo Discovery!"

tidester

"THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM".

WoW! It certainly qualifies as "customer relations" though not the kind that foster customer loyalty.

tidester
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lockcityssr

You want to upgrade the FRONT speakers not the rear, they are really only intended as "fill". I put a component set up front and it made a huge difference. The whole trick to getting good sound is to get the tweeters pointing at the listener, you mount the tweeters on the A pillar and the mids in the front door....thats why a component set is the best way to go.

sildog

I am taking my TB in for some warranty work that has been piling up. There is not much I dislike more than standing there with the "Service Advisor" while they try to fit my complaints to their computer's service menus! I am trying a different dealer this time-maybe they will be better.

Highlights:

I have a huge noise (started small but gets louder everyday) that sounds like a vibration that changes pitch with engine speed. When it was in before they said it was a power steering line vibrating against something. They fixed it but it came back. Anybody experience this?

Also, lately, when traveling greater than about 35mph, when I hit bumps in the road, the steering wheel does a little twist in my hands. I know this is new-I would have noticed it. Could power steering line and this be related?

I also have the intermittent rear wiper thing that I have seen mentioned in earlier posts. When I have it in low speed, it sometimes speeds up, slows down and goes to the park position at random. I am certain they won't be able to duplicate the problem.

I also have a thing where the intensity of all the lights in the truck vary in brightness-almost strobe like. At first I thought I was going nuts, but now it is so bad everybody who rides with me notices. I have had to replace three headlight bulbs, probably caused by varying voltage doing them in early.

I also have assorted interior things falling apart, coming unstitched, etc.

FEEL FOR ME!

ross1962

>>Anyone know how to get rid of the one inch gap >>between the grill and the bumper ?

Running into a concrete piller at about 15 MPH oughta do it!

ross1962

As an AAMCO mechanic once told me as I was getting my transmission serviced in my '93 S10 Blazer, "GM transmissions are pretty good. Now, if you REALLY want to spend a lot of time in transmission shops reading old magazines, buy an Explorer!"

ross1962

>>"Hellooooo Trooper! Hellooooo Liberty! >>Hellooooo Grand Cherokee! Hellooooo Discovery!"

Hello? Guess what Isuzu is replacing the Trooper with for 2003? :-)
Yup! They're now "quadruplets".

caldwell52

I've had my TB EXT only 2 months, but am extremely satisified with it so far. We previous had a 99 Buick LeSabre Limited and the TB has a BETTER ride, much more room and is only 7" longer. Only down side I have seen is the gas mileage. 15-20 compared to 24-30 of the LeSabre, but I knew that going into the deal.

That's my 2 cents work.

nuyorkah

Anyone ever notice that when the driver side mirror is dimmed that things in the top 1/3 of the mirror are blurry.
Also if you have a sunroof do you notice the mirrors dimming alot when its opened during the day.
I know the sensor is in the review mirror and I know the dimming feature can be turned off.
I'm just curious.

BTW my roof rack crossrails on my 02 Envoy where installed the incorrect way from the factory like some others here have posted.

nuyorkah

>The TSB for the sagging headliner is 02-08-67->004. Basically, all they do >is replace the velcro that holds the headliner in back of the sunroof with more >HD stuff. You could also do it yourself by just using the HD hook and loop >tape from Radio Shack.

The TSB for the headliner states the during assembly
of the truck the Velcro patches may not be aligned properly.
If this is the case they state to change the loop part
of the Velcro on the sunroof module with the same type Velcro,
it is not heavy duty.

If anyone has used the Heavy Duty stuff from
Radio Shack can you please tell me how you did it
because the factory hook side of the Velcro on
the headliner is like on a 1/4 block so it can reach the sunroof module it appears to be one solid piece that cannot be separated.

tblazed

Actually, I can stand to listen to the fronts only but turn the fade control to the back and by themselves, the rear door speakers sound horrendous. 1st things 1st- I want to do something about the sound coming out of the rears. Am looking at Sony, Kenwood and Pioneer products. Any input from some people that have changed out the rear door speakers??

paisan

Cause Isuzu is owned 49%by GM and GM will make more profit from the Assender than the Trooper. Don't kid yourself about how manufacturers think, it has nothing to do with cars, it's all about profit.

-mike

tblazed

Have fun and best of luck with your Lexus! I have blown away a couple of those with my TrailBlazer. Bet they were surprized to see this Chevy SUV-thing leaving them behind. Hopefully you will have better luck with it than your GM product. A good friend of mine is a lead technician at the biggest Lexus dealer here in Dallas. They keep him busy with warranty and non-warranty work from 7AM to 5 PM and 5 or 6 hours on Saturday fixing broken Lexuses (Or its that "Lexii"??) He drives a '90 Buick Park Avenue. His wife drives a '98 Explorer.

tblazer503

Those IS's are pretty nice cars... buddy's got one... I haven't seen myself smoke him when he was trying though... =oP Just like the TL-s.. that may have to be my next car... hehe.. I can just spend a grand on exhaust and intake and be happy. =o) Best yet it costs the same as my TB.. hmmm...
Sorry xntrik... thought you were talking about the rack and pinion, not the axle... hmmm... I'm confused... arrr...
Winter's coming up... anyone have the limited slip diffs? wonder how hard it is to do... hmmmm...

paisan

Can't wait for that.

-mike

ron_m

A Chevrolet dealership's service manager told me that part of this problem was due to the fact that the triplets are delivered with synthetic gear oil. I really don't know if this holds true for all of the triplets that have been delivered to date. The dealership should be able to get the problem corrected for you. Apparently it's fairly easy to improperly install the rear pinion seals. They can get pinched at manufacturing, or not seated properly. One service tech stated that there is actually a special tool that really needs to be used during the seal replacement process that enables the mechanic to properly install the new rear pinion seal in the triplets. Once the procedure is performed properly, you shouldn't experience any more leakage. Synthetic gear oil does make it tougher to prevent leaks around certain seals, because the synthetics can get down behind the seal's surfaces more easily than non-synthetics. At least that's my understanding. They had to replace my rear pinion seal twice, but the second guy fixed it up right and it never leaked another drop. He did a great job on it. The second guy was the one that mentioned the special tool that was required--by the way.

Regards,

Ron M.

iexplore2000

Ron.. I wanted to wish you the best of luck with your new Lexus IS. I know that you will be happy with that vehicle and best of all, IF it ever has to go in for service, at LEAST they will treat you with the common courtesy and respect that you deserve! I think that this is key with any new vehicle ownership. I completely understand how you feel.. My next vehicle will be an import no doubt! Today, just for kicks I test drove the new Honda Accord EX V-6 coupe and WOWEE! I was amazed at the technology and performance behind this vehicle. The more I investigate the non-GM car market, the more I am impressed. Don't get me wrong, in addition to my 02 Envoy SLT, I have an 02 Impala LS sedan that has been COMPLETELY flawless! I guess it's one of those "built on a Wednesday" vehicles and I was the lucky winner to receive this gem. But overall, I think that quality issues are important to me and although I like my Envoy, I have much better things to do with my time than to spend it in the GMC service department "hoping and praying" that they can address whatever is wrong with my vehicle. Good luck my friend!

Also, as a side note.. FYI.. As a tip, some of you might want to consider typing up a brief memo with bulleted items listing (in detail) the problems that you are experiencing with your vehicle and GIVE THIS to your service advisor. I have quickly learned that IF I bring a detailed document along with me to give to the SERVICE ADVISOR and also leave one taped to the steering wheel for the SERVICING TECHNICIAN, it seems that my concerns are getting addressed. This way, you can explain to them in great detail (usually a mini paragraph for each bulleted item) the nature/conditions of the problem you are experiencing. ALSO, I usually include a paragraph at the bottom (in BOLD FORMAT) indicating that BEFORE they rule out a problem as "Unable to Duplicate" that they CONTACT ME for further clarification. I have noticed that this pro active stance seems to get the job done right the first time! Additionally, the servicing techs usually complement me for having this document on hand and will usually notate on the service order, "Please SEE ATTACHED MEMO." On several occasions, the servicing techs have called me to get a better understanding of the problem at hand as opposed to writing the problem off as "Unable to Duplicate at This Time." Additionally, you may want to suggest that BEFORE they perform work on your vehicle that you be allowed to go out on a test -ride with the service manager or servicing tech. On one occasion, i had speaker rattle/door vibration like CRAZY! I brought in a Bassiest (if that's even a word) CD ever and had them bring out several folks to hold on to the door panels so we could determine where the vibration was coming from. Low and behold, they ended up replacing several door clips to silence the noise and viola! No more rattle!

My biggest concern right now centers around the ongoing A/C issue. I know that winter is rapidly approaching and the use of A/C will drastically diminish. I would hate to see this issue go unresolved until next summer. Any ideas or any luck??

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

stever

Good idea about the "Unable to Duplicate" - I wonder when dealers will finally give up that useless catch-all?

Steve
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2002slt

Ron,

You may want to update your user profile to reflect your new ride.

By the way, my parents own a 2002 LS430 and have only one minor problem. The sunshade contacts the antenna in the rear glass when it's activated. It just hangs for a Nano second and clears itself. They don't consider this a problem, though. Otherwise, it's been flawless.

I hope your IS300 is as good to you as my Envoy SLT has been for me. 8 months and 8,000 miles without ever being back to the dealer.

I read your deleted post before it was. I'm glad to see you've settled down.

stever

Ron got a little frustrated (understandably). No harm, no foul :-)

Steve
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ron_m

Just wanted to take a minute to thank you both
for the kind words of encouragement for me. That was a really nice gesture. I most definitely appreciate it.

By the way, the advice given by iexplore2000 is very, very sound. Providing a detailed explanation
of your vehicle's problems to the service manager
and/or tech at ANY dealership will always work to
your advantage. I found iexplore2000's post to be
very good!

Kind regards,

Ron M.

richardcoulson

tblazed, you are correct that the rear speaker sound like crap. They are cheap dual cone speakers that don't go up or down in frequencies. They also have a very hollow sound. Kind of like someone singing to you through an empty toilet paper tube. I replace mine with some soundstream spl 5.25" coaxal speakers with a dome tweeter. They are very efficient since they are 2 ohm speakers and thus come fairly close to matching the volume of the fronts without excessive fader control. There are a lot of good 5.25" speakers out there. It just depends how much you want to spend. I wish the existing mounting bracket would have worked with some 6.5" speakers. It is hard to get good bass out of the 5.25" speakers.
I can't beleive that the $500 bose option comes with such poor cheap speakers, especialy the cheap paper cone tweeter in the front. Must be a very profitable option for gm. By the way, my $300 factory infinity system in my jeep liberty sounds better than the blazer's for $200 less. Unfortunately we don't have the choice of after market systems if we want to still use the steering wheel controls and onstar functionality. Shame on gm for skimping on the speakers. This could have been a realy great sounding system for just a few dollars more since the head unit and amplifier realy aren't that bad.
The stereo system and soft suspension are realy my only complaints about the vehicle. I would probably be ok with these two issues if the vehicle only cost $20,000 instead of $36,000.....

tidester

I wonder when dealers will finally give up that useless catch-all?

Obviously, the answer is never! It will happen only when their shops aren't overloaded with work and that can happen only when their sales go through the floor in which case they are out of business! :-)

tidester
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pepper50

How strict are car dealers concerning timely routine maintenance as far as keeping your warranty valid? For instance, what if a service procedure is recommended at 15,000 and you wait until 15,500? I figure that probably wouldn't bother them too much. But what about 16,500 or 17,000? I wonder what the cutoff point is for them to say that you didn't do something timely, or how much leeway they allow.

tblazer503

Maintenance is exactly what it is... I usually try to do mine before it's due... IE my oil get changed every 5k mi, not 12k like they suggest.. blech. I would imagine that it would depend on how bad the condition of the "maintenance" item is... IE, if your oil is starting to look like sludge @ 12k, probably too long.. =o) same with the diff fluid, etc... most of the PM on the TB is minor, check fluid level, air filter, oil change, fuel filter...

tblazed

Hey Ron didn't mean to sound cynical about your decision to trade for a Lexus. If I had the problems you and others have had with my triplet I would be seeking escape from it too. Seems the problems are directly proportional to the amount of features and options these are laden with. Anyway, if the Lexus dealer you bought from treats its techs like the one my friend works at, then you will be in very good shape if service is needed. This particular Lexus dealer is the only shop I have been in that is completely climate controlled (air-conditioned in the summer especially) and the dealership even caters in lunch for all their techs on Saturdays! They maintain a great attitude with all their personnel. Have fun!

anonymous02

">>Anyone know how to get rid of the one inch gap >>between the grill and the bumper ?

Running into a concrete piller at about 15 MPH oughta do it! "

I was thinking the same thing!
:-)

anonymous02

">>"Hellooooo Trooper! Hellooooo Liberty! >>Hellooooo Grand Cherokee! Hellooooo Discovery!"

Hello? Guess what Isuzu is replacing the Trooper with for 2003? :-)
Yup! They're now "quadruplets". "

I'd be buying a used one anyhow. Probably 2000 or 2001 or so. Who can afford these new ones, anyhow?

anonymous02

"Good idea about the "Unable to Duplicate" - I wonder when dealers will finally give up that useless catch-all?"

Probably the same time software companies do!

dshepherd3

As a former Toyota and GM service manager I can tell you that this phrasing is required by the Manufacturers across the board as protection against most States lemon laws, it is not meant to blow off the customer, although the end result may appear so. What is partially at fault here is the dealership process of the service writer as a medium beteween the customer and the tech, I trained my advisors to be aware of these problems by allowing them to road test problem cars themselves to help recognize an owners concerns.

anonymous02

Good notes, iexplore about the detailed letter. Makes sense.

BOSE speakers? They are very overrated speakers. I looked at some BOSE home speakers, and they sounded muddy next to just about every other one in the stereo store. NEVER!

icojones

Can anyone explain why I received a notice for the Fuel Line recall (which was posted nearly six months ago) yesterday? Does it typically take GM six months to notify an owner about a recall?

xntrick

thanks for the heads up re: the "special" pinion seal tool. Called the service department to confirm that they had used the special tool to seat the seal and they had. I will continue to monitor however "just in case". Perhaps someone out there can help me with the excessive squeaks that come from the front end?? I have tried to silicone the hood stops and hood latch and that helps for a bit but not long. Where else would anyone suggest putting some silicone spray? It's not from the roof rack as I have removed the crossbar members to reduce wind noise so your guess is as good (and appreciated) as mine.

Regards.

tblazed

"Does it typically take GM six months to notify an owner about a recall?"

I received my recall letter the 1st week in May, before the dealers had even received the parts necessary to do the fix. Several others here had reported receiving the letters about that same time. I had to wait a couple of weeks for the pieces to come in and let them get a few "under their belts" before I took mine in. (Don't particularly like to be the 1st one in to learn on) But it was all done and complete for me by the 1st week in June. All I can figure is maybe they decided to include more beyond the original mfg dates. Originally it included triplets made beginning in 9-01 through the 1st week in 11-01. Seemed rather urgent to get it done at the time.

medolark

The fact that silicone on the hood stops and hinges "helps for a bit, but not long" clearly indicates where the problem is.

My squeak would not go away at all by simply putting silicone on the stops, but I have gotten rid of it entirely by backing the stops out about 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn. There is no effect on hood alignment because the stops don't do anything if they are not solidly in contact with the hood (except permit the hood to move around which in turn causes the squeak.)

xntrick

I thought so as well but the "bit" that it helps for is less than a day and I too tried to back out the hood stops. Just looking for suggestions as to other areas one could "lube" since it would appear that I have not eliminated the problem with the stops and hitch.

gbv

I orderred my new Envoy XL with the highest level non-bose audio (also have DVD). This was done on recommendation from aftermarket audio shop saying that I could have far better quality than Bose for a bit more than what GM was going to charge. What experience do folks have with replacing speakers and adding amp to base unit. I do not want to lose OnStar, steering controls, auto volume etc. Tell me I didn't make a mistake.

gbv

With all the comments I read on this board and others, I wonder if anyone has a "checklist" of things I should look for / validate before accepting delivery of my new EnvoyXL.

mfullmer

The first thing you should look for is that you are NOT REALLY getting an Envoy/Trailblazer/Bravada. Go for the Yukon.

Still GM but much fewer problems. I'm going by the dealer this evening to talk to him about trading in my Bravada (which is still in their shop because they still can't figure out why it won't start.) on a Yukon.

anonymous02

I remember a Jeep checklist, which is pretty applicable to most new cars. Have the link?

stever

twylie "Jeep Wrangler" Oct 1, 2001 8:26am

You don't give me much hope losing "unable to duplicate" do you, lol?

Steve
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mfullmer

The jeep guy either hasn't actually purchased a new vehicle this way or hasn't gone by his own list. He says to have your insurance company add the vehicle to your policy BEFORE you take delivery and actually own the car. Not only is this unnecessary but most insurance companies will not write a policy on a "car to be purchased".

Any standard auto insurance policy is going to have the provision for 15-30 day coverage of any new (or used) vehicle that you purchase. In order to write a policy on an automobile the underwriter needs the VIN and the registered owners information. If you haven't yet decided to take delivery and sign the papers it's not your car.

And I really think the whole thing is a bit much.

Check for proper amount of grease in grease fittings?

Check brake line routing?

Check routing of emergency brake cable?

Undercoating - look under the tub to see if they sprayed undercoating everywhere it should be?

Give me a break. Even for someone who has had as many problems as I have with my Bravada that sounds a bit obsessive/compulsive to me!

previousamigo

I finally figured out were the loud noise is coming from when I'm driving down the interstate in a heavy cross winds. The noise is so loud it sounds like it is going to pull off the front door. If you stick your fingers in the squishy rubber seal part, just behind the top grab handle, on the top of the door seal, you can actually change the volume of the wind noise coming through the door. It seems the seal gap is widest at this point behind the top grab handle. You will only be able to adjust the noise when you are actually getting the crosswind noise. Now that I have looked at it, I still don't know how to fix it. I dont think replacing the seal will do anything because the seal looks fine. Maybe have the dealer tighten the door if possible? This is a round closed seal that needs to be much thicker. Any other suggestions? I did put the weather stripping in the seal above this seal to fatten it up as suggested earlier but the wind is still getting through that top seal.

anonymous02

"...most insurance companies will not write a policy on a "car to be purchased"."

Any standard auto insurance policy is going to have the provision for 15-30 day coverage of any new (or used) vehicle that you purchase.

Car insurance varies from state to state. ...

"And I really think the whole thing is a bit much.

Check for proper amount of grease in grease fittings?...Check brake line routing?...Check routing of emergency brake cable?"

These things are important if you take your Jeep off road or through water crossings or plan to lift it. It is also important to note that this is stuff to check on for used vehicles. Jeeps have been through mud, rivers, lifts, etc, and are subject to who knows what.

If you don't plan on taking your SUV offroad, you might not want to check these, ...
OR...
you might want to think about something other than an SUV really.