Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Is it available with a 5 speed? If so, is 1st a granny?

    Is the front "clip" removeable, for better approach angle?

    How can the antisway bar NOT limit travel? It does in every other 4X4 I know of.

    Any lift kits available? What tire choices stock? With X amount of lift?
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    http://media.gm.com/division/pontiac/products/eng_tran/4l60ben.html


    I finally found the web page source of the adaptive shift info if still interested.

  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    No 5 Speed available... 4 Speed Auto/OD is your only choice.

    The front clip is removable, but I don't know of any replacements at this time.

    Lift kits aren't currently available, but I've heard some are in the works. Can't do a traditional lift due to the front axle running through the oil pan!

    Bad choice of words on the sway bar. You're correct, any sway bar will limit suspension travel to a degree depending on how stiff they are and how they mount. On the triplets, the limitations are negligible.
  • 2k_impala_ls2k_impala_ls Member Posts: 311
    this review shows a TB going through a mud bog.

    Bring it on Joe Isuizzzzo.

    http://www.4x4review.com/vehicles/chevy/2002-Chevy-TrailBlazer.asp
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Much appreciated!

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    It's an independent front suspension.
  • zonkzonk Member Posts: 208
    I am a lurker in this forum, though active on the Dakota Quad cab threads. (I am in the market for an SUV to replace a JGC lease turn in soon.) So, I don't currently have a dog in this fight about the quality of the Triplets and what GM does/does not do to satisfy their customers. However, the Dakota had a lot of problems initially and some really irate owners. I guess what I wonder is with the volume of complaints here and in the Dakota threads, I hope that these forums are not the only place owners are writing or emailing. These forums alone will probably not get GM or DC to change their idiotic, non-customer satisfying ways. Hopefully, everyone with problems is also venting directly to Detroit, hitting them with such a mass of email traffic so they can't say they never heard of these problems. (That way, maybe the quality will be fixed by the time I get one of these trucks-ha,ha). Go get 'em, guys!
  • bakednutbakednut Member Posts: 17
    ok, the other night when i got home i forgot to shut off my piaa Fog lights, and subsequently drained the battery overnight. the next morning i was preping for an oil change. when i went to move my truck ..... nothing. I hate it when that happens. so when i went to take the keys out, i couldnt get it out of the ignition. no matter how i jiggled it or turned it around. i eventually had to use my bike to jump the battery and was finally able to remove my key. is there a button or lever or method i dont know about to remove that key, in such an even where my battery would die again? thanks!

    PS. i have finally fell prey to the gasket problem. i was hoping i wouldnt have to do it, cuz i dont think it looks that good. and im also hearing that the gaskets have problems too.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I am a lurker in this forum...

    You are no longer a lurker - welcome aboard!

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    scott454 is correct... I must have had a brain dump. Kinda hard to have a lower control arm failure recall on a solid axle =)
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Earlier today I posted (#7734) the link to the 4L60-E info source from GM. Didn't take them long to shut that off! I can't open that page now it says "page no longer available"! It was there 3 hours ago!! Sheesh!

    Why would they not want us to see the media release stuff??

    Obviously GM is reading this board!

    Message now: " The page you were looking for was not found, or is not available." Thanks GM.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    It works for now but that doesn't have the explanation of how the so-called adaptive transmission works. I went to


     http://media.gm.com/


     and did a search for 4L60-E and came up with about the same info. Intresting thing though, in the search results, the 1st "result" is no longer available!

  • bruser1bruser1 Member Posts: 31
    Your link worked for me tblazed.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    This one still is NLA that's what I get when I try it anyway..


    http://media.gm.com/division/pontiac/products/eng_tran/4l60ben.html


    Also tidester or whoever might know, what happened to the log-in icon at the bottom of the messages? Seems to be missing. Have to enter in my name and password in the left column now.

  • twinrottstwinrotts Member Posts: 161
    I have seen mentioned in many posts that TB's are in need of gasket replacements??
    Which ones, and how do you recognize the problem
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    It sounds like the strikes against the Trailblazer are adding up:

    "No 5 Speed available... 4 Speed Auto/OD is your only choice."

    one

    "The front clip is removable, but I don't know of any replacements at this time."

    two

    "Lift kits aren't currently available, but I've heard some are in the works."

    and a half

    "Can't do a traditional lift due to the front axle running through the oil pan!"

    SAY WHAT?

    (three)

    IFS

    four

    weight
    five

    reliability
    six
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    The 4L60-E uses sophisticated electronics to modify shift patterns as conditions dictate. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) monitors factors such as throttle position, vehicle speed, gear range, temperature and engine load. The PCM also measures changes in the operating condition of the vehicle, which occur naturally over time as components wear. Based on these measurements, shift timing and hydraulic line pressure are adapted to maintain optimum shift feel under different conditions - for example, during heavy hauling or trailering. This results in improved drivability and fuel economy. The PCM also allows the system to self-adjust for minor variations in each new unit, ensuring that every customer experiences consistent performance, and ensuring that the transmission will produce a constant high level of performance for the life of the car.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Yep that's the same as I posted back on #7663. That was about 1/4 of the info on that web page. It went on about other trans-related items.

    I responded to the "Tow-Haul" mode question with that because it seemed unlikely just a simple mod would work. In the meantime I emailed HyperTech about a "Power Programmer" that would allow the user to adjust the trans shift points etc for the 4.2 I-6 Triplets. They responded not any time soon, but keep checking back. Maybe a few more emails would help inspire them??
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    How about B&M (I think that is it) or any of the other transmission type companies?
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Member Posts: 620
    I'm not sure who it was, but someone, if I recall correctly, had a PCM changed out in their Bravada and saw 23mpg?? If that person is still lurking, can you please send me some information about the rev of the software? so I can ask my GM service areas about it... I'm sure many of the other triplet owners would be interested in even the possibility of a 3mpg gain... Thanks
    BTW, Unfortunately, the only way from what I understand of it to improve the shift quality, it would take a rewrite of the PCM, or cracking the tranny case open... you can improve the lockup and WOT performance by doing the hypertech, though... =o) B& M makes no applications for the Triplets.
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Member Posts: 620
    We could get rid of the torque management on these engines... I think I could lite 'em up.... hehe... I remember my dad's 140hp 4x4 Isuzu P'up being able to lite up the 31's on dry pavement... It weighed 3300.... would be nice to be able to do it when you want to... hehe
  • calucykcalucyk Member Posts: 35
    Over the past few months, my Bravada has developed a whining noise during acceleration. It only occurs in 1st and 2nd gears. It's the same sound a power steering pump makes when low in fluid, but not quite as loud. You can rev the engine in neutral and the noise does not occur. I finally brought it into the dealership for service and they said, "could not duplicate problem".

    Tonight, I got to thinking that may be I was low in transmission fluid. I checked it while the engine was at operating temperature and running. The oil was so low that it barely showed on the dipstick. A couple of questions:

    1. When checking transmission fluid, should you warm the engine to operating temperature, apply the parking brake and put the vehicle in drive while running, then check the level? Or what I did was fine (engine at operating temperature, vehicle in park and engine running)?

    2. Since my fluid level is so low, do you think I harmed any internal transmission components?
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Looked at B&M all their products cut off in '98 or so - a little bit older technology. A company like HyperTech, Jet or ADS will eventually get something to market. HyperTech calls theirs the Power Programmer. Lets you do all kinds of neat stuff. Since the 4L60-E is completely controlled my the PCM, reprogramming the PCM is obviously the way to make changes.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    "what I did was fine (engine at operating temperature, vehicle in park and engine running)?"

    Basically that's the way to do it. Get it up to temp let it sit idling for a few min run the shifter thru all the positions a few seconds each position, and back to park that should get you fairly accurate. That's how I did mine level was right in the middle of the FULL marking.

    How many miles on yours before you discovered it's low?
  • calucykcalucyk Member Posts: 35
    Mine actually idled for a few minutes before I was able to check the fluid level.

    To answer your question... 2 or 3 thousand miles. I guess I should have checked the fluid level earlier, but I originally thought it was the power steering pump. I immediately check that fluid level (while warm) and it was right on.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    " it was right on " was that 2-3000 miles ago? Question then is, where did it go? Any signs of leaks anywhere?
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    ...what happened to the log-in icon at the bottom of the messages? Seems to be missing. Have to enter in my name and password in the left column now.

    I haven't noticed that - anyone else? I use autologin at the main entry to TH (the login button there has always been to the left on my system). You might try resetting your autologin in case that somehow got messed up.

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I usually use autologin too (although I lose it when I delete my cookies, which I do every few days). Anyway, tonight I saw the login at the bottom of the posts, which I usually don't see.

    Our programmer admits that he has been tweaking stuff today, and even enabled the advanced search for a trial run with all members. Don't slashdot it or it'll get removed!

    johnv "Ask the Town Hall Hosts" Sep 25, 2002 9:46pm

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • golden_doggolden_dog Member Posts: 12
    Would a problem with the Encoder Motor cause the Bravada to feel like it was in 4WD-HI whenever tight turns are made at low speed?

    Whenever I back out of my driveway and turn left or right tightly, the front wheels get that bounce/slip feeling like the car is in 4WD-high. I get the same feeling pulling into parking spaces.

    Is this normal or is this a problem that the dealer needs to fix?
  • archdukerizzoarchdukerizzo Member Posts: 35
    It's a problem that the dealer needs to fix.
    According to the dealer I had my bravada serviced at yesterday (for this exact problem) and from another guy on this board, there is no offical fix yet. GM is aware of the problem and should have a fix out by the end of next month. In the mean time they're telling dealers to pull out the fuse for the AWD.
  • redline65redline65 Member Posts: 693
    tbcreative: You troll! Just kidding. Thanks for posting the article on the new 4Runner, now I have another SUV to consider besides the Envoy, Pilot, and Pathfinder. By reading the posts on this board though I would say the Envoy is probably near the bottom of my list.
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Member Posts: 620
    IMHO, the Pathfinder would be on the bottom of my list, then the Envoy, then the MDX(hey its my list..) Then the 4Runner... of course it all depends on if they improved ride quality on the 4Runner with this new rev...
    Here's a funny thing about my AT, Try and roll the windows down and drive decently hard on it... My tranny makes a hissing sound about a second before it shifts... sounds kinda funny... hehe... I would imagine its some actuator or some line pressure building up for the shift...
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm not sure what "reliability" issue you've heard about Troopers but they've been rated #2 behind 4-runner for a # of years in both CR and JD Power. Come over to the Trooper area if you want to discuss further.

    -mike
  • m2icemanm2iceman Member Posts: 27
    I cant remember if I saw this posted or not so Ill ask. Has anyone sawpped out there factory Bose speakers for aftermarkets? I'm looking to keep the factory unit and replace the speakers, but Im not sure it can be done. As you may know, the all knowing store radio salespersons tell me over and over that all the speakers have to be replaced. To include the head unit. I'm taking it with a grain of salt and would like to know if anyone has changed things out.
  • dlaredlare Member Posts: 43
    I read in a 4x4 magazine article that Jet makes a Power Shift Controller for the 4L60-E tranny. This module splices into the wires going to the tranny and allows 4 settings of shift firmness.

    I may order one and try it on my TB XL.

    Dean
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    You saw my post for the Jet review right?... #7689
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Thanks for the replys. It came back last night after I logged on "manually" 3 or 4 times over the course of the evening, and yes I selected "save password" each time. Last time I did it, it finally saved. Didn't dump my cookies either! Don't know what happened but it's A-OK now.
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Member Posts: 620
    'nuf said... =o)
  • triumphbobktriumphbobk Member Posts: 25
    I call this effect you're experiencing "binding". I've only seen it turning at low speeds, mainly when backing but sometimes going forward - the transfer case acts as if it is in 4wd mode. I've had the encoder motor reprogramnmed once, replaced once, and then reprogrammed one more time. The problem recurred the last time after only a few days.

    archdukerizzo is correct, the dealer says that GM is working on a fix that they say will be ready by the middle to end of October. It sounds like a software change, but there may be a hardware change involved.

    If its binding, take it to the dealer to get it in the loop for the upgrade. I'm tring to get them to give me a loaner, but GM is reluctant. I don't like the idea of driving it with this problem since I feel that it is unsafe and may be damaging the transfer case. I've heard that they can remove the fuse from the AWD system so it won't try to kick in to AWD, but I've also heard that this interim solution doesn't work.
  • archdukerizzoarchdukerizzo Member Posts: 35
    The dealer told me that GM is telling them to pull the ATCM fuse as a temporary fix until mid to late October, but they did a software update on the ATCM with hopes it would do something but it still binds just as bad. I feel the fuse fix is a bunch of crap since we all bought the smartrack models for the AWD feature, and once removed it's essentially a 2wd model with larger wheels.

    I was also told, along with reading here, that the fuse fix doesn't work in all situations.

    I agree with triumphbobk, this binding can't be doing any good to the transfer case. In fact, the work order I have says something about the encoder motor contacts are rubbing against something. Well, we'll all see what happens in October.

    BTW, My transfer case has been flushed more than 4 times and now reprogrammed resulting in the same binding as before.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    On the minus side:
    IFS
    ABS
    poor approach angles
    poor departure angles
    no replacements to fix above 2 probs
    no lifts currently, and even if one comes out, the axle goes through the oil pan!
    no 5 speed
    spare underneath
    antisway bar not removeable
    many complaints on a ton of various items

    NOW WHY WOULD I WANT THIS AGAIN?

    =====================================

    On the plus side:
    good towing capacity
    good motor (decent compromise of power and economy)
    roomy?

    I'm not so sure that the positives outweigh the negatives on this vehicle for me. Will keep watching.
  • 2002slt2002slt Member Posts: 228
    It's apparent that the triplets don't meet your requirements. That's fine, we all have our own needs.
    If I were you, I'd be looking for a Jeep Wrangler, or a Hummer - depending on your budget.

    Take care!
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I HAVE a Jeep Wrangler.

    I was looking for something a little bigger, especially in the towing department. A Hummer is out of my price range.

    I wish Jeep kept the Cherokee or made the Dakar.

    Kinda checking out the Troopers.
  • dlaredlare Member Posts: 43
    The nice thing about this is that it's simply an electronic add on - you don't need remove the tranny oil pan at all. My guess is that it just adds a signal to the existing wires to signal a different input for clutch engagement or something.

    I wish I could find a wiring diagram for the tranny so I could see how they're doing it.

    Dean
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    But any vehicle that has any sort of on-road handling ability is going to have IFS... including the Trooper! Most autos are also going to have 4 speeds as well, which makes no difference whatsoever unless it effects top speed or mpg.

    I guess my question is since you're happy with the Wrangler, why aren't you considering the Grand Cherokee?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The Trooper has front indy suspension, although there are ball joint flips and spacers out to do lifts on the front while still allowing downward travel.

    Since this is the TB/Envoy/Bravada forum though I'll go into a few ways you can improve the TB for offroad use:

    o Custom/replacement front and rear bumpers this will take care of angles of approach and departure
    o Custom springs that are longer and/or spacers to give you suspension lift
    o Body pucks for body lift
    o Larger tires
    o skid plates

    That should take care of the major items. Most SUVs nowdays only come in ATs so finding an MT is going to be rare.

    -mike
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    "...Most autos are also going to have 4 speeds as well, which makes no difference whatsoever unless it effects top speed or mpg."

    I meant a 5 speed MANUAL.

    "I guess my question is since you're happy with the Wrangler, why aren't you considering the Grand Cherokee?"

    Oh, I am. :-)

    But, it has a poor quality reputation, and I think the big gripe is it has unit body construction, right?

    Thanks, though.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    :...Since this is the TB/Envoy/Bravada forum though I'll go into a few ways you can improve the TB for offroad use:

    o Custom/replacement front and rear bumpers this will take care of angles of approach and departure
    o Custom springs that are longer and/or spacers to give you suspension lift
    o Body pucks for body lift
    o Larger tires
    o skid plates"

    Yeah, but by the time you do all that, what have you spent? You might as well have a Wrangler AND a sedan AND a motorcycle and have the best of all worlds.
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