how do I use the information from the GM calibration site to upgrade my vehicle? How does a consumer know what the most recent update they have is? The website seems to be listing the updates that are out there but does not really say where a particular vehicle is in the sequence of available updates... For example I have a total of 17 calibrations listed for my vin and I've only gone in once to get the latest update for the fan noise. Could someone clarify please in terms of how I can use the posted information...
was driving on interstate,green lgt.on the onstar system changed to red.I dialed up onstar,lady checked it out came back with code B2470.said to take it in for service to the onstar system.I'll take it in a couple of days.haven't saw any posts with onstar problems.
Picked ours up from the dealer this morning, I think they may have successfully completed 2 of the 7 items.
The note on software updates is: "Programing updates areto be performed only if a customer complaint relates to the calibration as per General Motors policies and regulations."
I guess next time in I'll have to complain about the 1-2 shift.
So the task becomes one of establishing what the updates are aimed at rectifying and then declaring that you are having the problem?? For example I do not like the way mine shifts from 1st to second and later on from 3 to 4th (that's 2 re-calibrations). But what about when the first calibration listed pertains to operating system software (part number 12579238)?? Then under engine calibration, I have no less than 6 calibration(s) listed. We may all have to work together to ensure that our complaints "relate to the calibration as per General Motors policies and regulations." I for one would like to have the most recent calibrations performed!!
Dec 13, 2002 (01:44 pm) "Are you sure you're talking about the GM Supplier Discount, and not the GM Employee discount? " It's called "GMS". Even though I'm not a GM employee, I think this is the same as the discount the employees get. The reason it goes on the W2 (actually goes on my paycheck and taxed as income) is that is considered a taxable benefit.
My 02 TB with Leather Plus seems to be a bit odd with the unlocking of the rear hatch. I'm not yet sure if it is me or a sporadic malfunction. To unlock the hatch with key fob, it takes 3 pulses. I would have thought two would do it. Also the hatch does not always unlock with vehicle put in park. It requires a touch of the arm rest button. I think this is intermittent. Anyone else experience any type of oddity with the hatch locks?
To answer your question Read 9215 above. I ran my TB VIN last May and saved the print out, then compared that to the most recent info, I see the OS software has been superceded by 3 revisions and there are the two new calibrations. As far as getting any of this done, going in to the dealer with a print out and saying you found this info while searching for the particular symptom because you have these problems would be enough to justify doing it for you. That's what I plan to do after the holidays when I have some time. As far as finding out exactly what revisions you have, you will have to see the dealer.
I too have used buypower.com. I liked it at first, but after a while, I realized that I could not trust it to be current. Of the ~6 vehicles I sent a *hold for test drive message*, only 1 was available. Later found out the 1 was not even available. I liked the online searching but buypower really needs to do a better job matching up options with available vehicles. Only lets you see 3 or 4 vehicles per page, have to guess based on price which ones may be what you are looking for. I did like the fact that the salesperson does contact you right away.
Anyway, I was really hoping to get lucky and find one last Saturday so I felt like driving (at least until I was on the road).
Jerry Haggerty seems to be taking care of me so far. They have found 3 that match my specifics, have been very prompt and courteous. We will see if they can close the deal.
I've also had the intermittent rear hatch unlock problem. I haven't noticed it with the key fob (for some reason, whenever I am entering anything other than the drivers door I always hit it three or four times.)
Mine is very sporatic and sometimes goes for months but it still, on occassion, does not unlock when the vehicle is in park and I have to use the fob or lock switch. I haven't even bothered to ask the service tech as I doubt they could duplicate it.
Tblazed post #'s 9215 & 9229 - Very interesting. Pls. advise web site to check VIN # for updates. By the way, my '02 TB with build date of 5/02 ran perfect until I brought it to the dealer for the "vibration" problem. While there, they ran the latest "improvements". It now has less low RPM power / torque but seems to be tuned to the upper RPM range where it screams. I prefer the way it was. Problem is that the dealer cannot go back to an older program. Anyone else experience this? Thanks.
I bought my Envoy XL with the supplier discount, and it is not the same as the GM employee discount. I saw the actual dealer invoice, which they have to show you, under the terms of the program. The GM Supplier Discount price is 4% higher than what employees pay. It is still a good deal. There are two separate prices listed on the invoice, one for employees, and one for suppliers. NOTHING was added to my W2. I never even heard that mentioned by either my employer, or GM, during the registration process, or the purchase process.
Hi, I've had my Envoy XL for 6 months now and really like it, no problems yet except...As the cold weather has set in I've begun to use the heated seats. Once they warm up I've noticed that there are hot and cold spots all through the seats. Other heated seats I have are nice and uniformly warm. Is this typical or should I say something to my dealer?
Here's the exact text from the service bulletin how to do it, and how it is supposed to work.
Info - GM Oil Life System - Resetting #02-00-90-001 GM Oil Life System™ -- Resetting 2002 Chevrolet and GMC S/T Utility Models (TrailBlazer, Envoy),2002 Oldsmobile Bravada
These vehicles have an oil life monitor. The GM Oil Life System™ will show when to change the engine oil and oil filter. The GM Oil Life System™ must be reset after changing the engine oil and oil filter.
Resetting Procedure The current Owner's Manual contains the following reset procedure:
Turn the ignition to RUN with the engine off. Fully press and release the accelerator pedal three times within five seconds. If the CHANGE ENG OIL light flashes for five seconds, the system is reset. If the light does not flash, repeat the procedure. However, it has been found that after completing the reset procedure, the CHANGE ENG OIL light does not flash as stated in the vehicle Owner's Manual.
If the CHANGE ENG OIL light goes out after the reset procedure and does not return after the next ignition cycle, then the system has been reset.
If the vehicle is equipped with a Driver Information Center (DIC), then reset confirmation can also be done by verifying that the Engine Oil Life percentage value has reset to 100%.
Use the above information to prevent the inadvertent replacement of the instrument cluster if there are comments that the oil life reset feature does not work.
Considering how hot the seats get at level 3 I'm surprised yours doesn't heat evenly. I don't believe mine has any cold spots. While I haven't measured the temp on level 3 it feels like you could cook food with it :>)
When a dealer goes to update the calibration for a vehicle. By default ALL new calibrations for that VIN are downloaded into the vehicle. The dealer has no way to choose one particular calibration. There are one or two exceptions to this that are noted on the description of the calibration itself.
Don't ask me how to interpret this data. Without a printout of the software versions your particular vehicle came with I don't know. They likely have a way to read the version at the dealer when they plug in their scan tool to your vehicles computer.
"...they ran the latest "improvements". It now has less low RPM power / torque but seems to be tuned to the upper RPM range where it screams. I prefer the way it was. Problem is that the dealer cannot go back to an older program."
IMO trucks (and truck-based SUVs) ought to be peaked out for low RPM torque. That's what I am afraid of- having this done and not liking the results. Sometimes the latest software "update" causes changes or differences that are not desired (kinda like upgrading Windows or your computer BIOS) Sounds like they retuned yours for less low-end power off the line in an effort to get better "city" gas mileage. All I want ( I think) is the 1-2 upshift update if I knew what they meant by "improve feel of 1-2 upshift". Maybe I will just wait 'til Hypertech comes out with their reprogrammer. With that device, I believe you can reload your original saved software version.
Most of the resolution for the 1-2 shift update is a lower rpm shift point during casual part throttle driving. With a lower shift point, the "felt" torque of the motor would be less.
Most of the torque produced by this motor is higher in the rpm range than a 5.3L v8.
To GM's credit their torque curve on the Vortech motors is relatively flat. having more torque available throughout the rpm range.
I experienced the GM version of the "blue screen of death" recently on my Bravada. While driving a city street at approximately 35 mph, the engine stopped dead. Coasted to the side, tried restart several times with cranking but no start. Called OnStar and got them started on sending someone out. After that (about 5 minutes), tried starting again and it fired right up. Called OnStar back to cancel the flatbed and had her run the remote diagnostic. From her somewhat limited description it sounded like either one of the processors was down and others were filling its role, or the power train module was in some sort of fail-safe mode. The only indication (after start-up) was the "service engine soon" light and the fan locked on 100%.
I learned some things about running with the fan always on. First (as we all know!), it is loud. Second, others have commented about an extreme loss of power at times with the fan on (e.g. almost can't make it up a hill, etc. Much more loss of power than even a high CFM fan could suck up). I wonder if some of that isn't because people are just unwilling to accelerate as normal when it sounds like the engine is about to fly apart. I know I found it difficult to force myself to rev the engine like I normally do when starting up from stop. As a test I floored it and it revved to redline as normal and accelerated strongly. Lastly, since this happened Friday night and it would be several days before taking it in, I just unplugged the connector at the fan housing and the fan stayed off. (Maybe this would work for Northerners, who never want the fan to come on during the winter.)It's in the shop now.
Just picked up my Bravada; I should have just stayed there while they did the fix. My OnStar analysis of the problem was pretty far off, apparently. Turns out they don't know the actual cause of the stall, but somewhere in that process the ETC sensor stopped working, which is why the fan stayed locked on. They reset the sensor and reprogrammed the PCM for eng calibration per a bulletin they had related to the ETC. Everything working fine now. As someone commented earlier, maybe there should be a reset button on these babies.
I have been having the same issue with my onstar also but seems to come and go this week. I also contacted them and this time they we not really of any help except "take it in and have them look at it". No codes were given to me. Other than that I love my TB. It is a 02 Blue/pewter LTZ. Sold off my 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and haven't regretted it since then. It is now 4 months old and I just had the oil changed at 3000 miles. For those that have been tracking this info I do mostly city driving with some expressway thrown in to open her up. The DIC showed 68% on the oil life. I disappointed about the mileage I am getting around 13 MPG as per the DIC. However I do have a heavy foot and like to drive it as if I stole it. Love my TB and would recommend anyone looking at the Jeep GC to give the TB a test drive. I hated the way a regular 2000 Blazer drove and felt but the TB is 100% different. My own opinion.
Ok...while sitting at a red light minding my own business, some guy plows right into me. Long story short, my 1995 Intrepid is a total loss and I now have to look for a new vehicle. I trying to decide between the Yukon and Envoy XL.
A local dealer has an Envoy XL that is farily loaded out and a base model Yukon. After my GMS discount, they is basically a $500 difference in price.
I was wanting to hear from some folks who are satisfied with their Envoy XL and what kind of mileage are they getting (please post if you have 2wd/4wd and gear ratio). I am looking at a 2wd with the 3.42 gear ratio.
My wife is leaning towards the Envoy XL and I was leaning towards the Yukon because I thought it was bigger. Well after looking at the GMC website, the Yukon is only 8 inches longer in total length and has more room in the shoulder area, about 8 inches.
I conducted much of my initial search for my 2003 Bravada using the GM Buypower system from the dealer list supplied by the Oldsmobile site. I live in Colorado and there aren't all that many Oldsmobile dealers near by, so I collected links to all the dealers within 150 miles.
I encountered the same problem with what you see isn't necessarily what's available. After foolishly driving 40 miles to see a particular color of Bravada that a dealer had posted via Buypower, I was told they must have sold it recently. Nobody remembered it. Well, a month later it was still listed in their inventory on Buypower.
Oddly enough, I ended up buying my Bravada from the one dealer that was linked to Buypower. Their dealership name was listed, but not linked. They had what I was looking for and they were actually the closest to my home.
Another note about GM Buypower. The software isn't Apple Macintosh-friendly. Numerous attempts to e-mail dealers and Oldsmobile resulted in either frozen pages or e-mails returned as undeliverable.
GM Buypower is a nice concept, but it needs considerable work on execution. What the system should do is allow you to specify a vehicle at the GM site, provide a ZIP code, and get you linked to the vehicle closest to your specification in your geographic area. Instead, you have to work through slow responding links for all of the dealerships in your area and all of their inventory of the named vehicle, regardless of color or options.
While I'm at it, I'll take a shot at all of those internet car buying link sites. I tried them all. Several just emailed me that they didn't have an Oldsmobile link either nation-wide or in my area.
Others took all my specifications and selected dealer-partners in my area, and I never heard from any of the dealers. Yes, I provided that feedback to the home websites.
The last batch got me e-mails from local dealers, but as soon as I noted that I had provided specifications for color and options, they totally broke off contact with me. One even ignored two phone messages I left him after he indicated he could find the Bravada I wanted.
I suspect part of the problem is that I was looking for an Oldsmobile. I sense the Olds dealers are jumping ship rapidly and really don't want to invest much effort in sustaining normal sales activity for Olds. Just my impression.
Gas mileage continues to suck. For mixed driving around town and commuting I've experienced as low as 13.2 mpg. If I drive using the instaneous fuel mileage reading like the old vacuum gauge, I can get a little over 15 mpg. Some 65 mph highway driving on cruise control got me over 18 mpg.
I discovered a "sample defect" on my Bravada. I noticed that the front bumper side wrapping is apparently loose on the driver's side. I can push it in an it moves and bangs against something. Passenger side is solid. If I don't find a reason to see my dealer soon, I may just open the wheel well and tighten the connection myself.
Had a shock Monday night. I hit a bump and lights and gongs went off. I finally noticed that the DIC said that the rear window was a-jar. I stopped and checked it and it was a-jar. Apparently the lock slipped or disengaged when I hit the bump. Anyone ever experience this? I can't reproduce it, so I hesitate to mention it to dealer service.
The preceding are minor issues. Overall, this is one of the most comfortable and powerful vehicles I've ever driven. The ride is perfect, smooth and quiet. The power is really impressive (and I've owned muscle cars and turbo sports cars in my past). My wife isn't a truck person, but she finds ever excuse to drive the Bravada because of the ride and power. So far, a very satisfied buyer.
I too was looking at the same vehicles in 4wd. I ended up with the Envoy XL 4wd. The envoy will squeeze into parking spaces slightly better. My wife, like yours, preferred the Envoy. Both vehicles have great economy for their segment. Both accelerate about the same. We thought the Envoy had a nicer ride. We don't pull anything which was another reason we choose the Envoy. And, I would give up my fully loaded features to get a base Yukon. Must have leather!
with a 3.42 rear end we are currently averaging 17.3Mpg over the life of the vehicle. Highway trips have been as good as 22Mpg. (73 MPH)
Having a hard time finding the Envoy XL with options I want on the dealer lots, so I might have to order one. Do you get the rebate that is in effect at the time of ordering or when you actually take delivery? Can you still get the rebate if you are ordering? Also, any ideas about the incentives after Jan. 2? Rumor is SUV incentives are going to be better in 1Q2003.
I had the same thing happen with the rear hatch door. Found out I wasn't shutting it hard enough sometimes to fully lock it. I've gotten into the habit of reaching under it after closing it and pulling up on it to see if it's ajar. Could some of you educate me on something. I keep hearing about this fan noise issue. Well, I have it to on colder mornings, it's about the same as the fan noise on the 4.3L Vortex V6. When I look at the fan it looks like a viscous clutch coupling to me. I don't see any electrical connection. The only way I can see that any reprogramming would have an effect on it would be to lower the shift rpm ranges, which would keep the fan speed lower thus producing less noise. If there's something I'm missing let me know.
Look closer, there is an electrical connection to the fan, and also a cooling fan fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. It's some newfangled electronically controlled fluid coupling fan clutch.
Published numbers don't really relate to rear wheel torque.
Pulling my boat my 02 TB does great. But you have to get on the pipe to get up and go.
Compared to my 01 Silverado. The torque curves are noticeably different.
While the engine has the torque available at the low end. It is the rest of the drivetrain that has to get it to the ground. I feel that these vehicles have a little too high gear ratio in the 1st and second gear for the weight and engine.
Don't get me wrong though. I wouldn't trade my TB in for anything else... Well maybe a Yukon or Suburban in about 7 months when the baby arrives, we will be needing the additional room.
How many kids do you have now? I have one due around the same time, and was planning on keeping the Wrangler for at least a couple to five more years. Might trade in the wife's VW Jetta then for a Liberty or Sorento.
Still keeping an eye out on the Traiblazer to see if they ever get past the Windows 3.1 level software problems.
Is traction control a useful option on the Envoy XL? My car has it and it has helped out when accelerating on icy or wet slick roads, but I'm wondering if a vehicle this heavy will encounter any wheel spin in these conditions. Also, what does a locking differential do?
It's much easier than you think to spin the rear wheels on snow & ice.
The locking rear differential locks the rear axles together so that all the power doesn't end up going to one wheel in slippery conditions, like in an open differential. In an open differential, torque is split 50/50 between the wheels, but if one starts to slip, it ends up with all the torque. A locker maintains a 50/50 split between the wheels. Since it's harder to spin 2 wheels than one, it gives you more traction. However, it doesn't double the traction, like many people erroneously think.
They don't come up as comps here at Edmunds but if you substitute it for one of the others and look it seems like they may be more similar than the Explorer.
Reason I ask is it seems from the chatter on the Expedition board that they may be making better deals on these than the Envoy. Anyone done any real comparison and want to offer up their opinion?
Check out the July 02 Techlink issue above about the electronically controlled viscous fan clutches our triplets are graced with. Mines been engaged 3 mornings in a row at first start, now that the weather is colder. After a minute or two the viscous stuff in the clutch finally redistributes itself and all is normal.
They don't come up as comps here at Edmunds but if you substitute it for one of the others and look it seems like they may be more similar than the Explorer.
Reason I ask is it seems from the chatter on the Expedition board that they may be making better deals on these than the Envoy. Anyone done any real comparison and want to offer up their opinion?
I have TB 2WD with 3.42 gears. Only regret I have is getting the 3.42 gears. (Drove 220 miles one way to get one equipped that way with the other options I wanted) Less rear wheel torque and performance, and seemingly less MPG in city driving compared to other reports with 3.73 and even the 4.10 gears. Avg about 14 in-town MPG. I did get 21 MPG on the highway though. With 3 adult passengers and the A/C running, the lack of low end torque is noticable. I would absolutely get the 3.73 gears as a best compromise. If you ever intend to tow anything close to the limits go with the 4.10 gears. My 2¢ worth.
They don't come up as comps here at Edmunds but if you substitute it for one of the others and look it seems like they may be more similar than the Explorer.
Reason I ask is it seems from the chatter on the Expedition board that they may be making better deals on these than the Envoy. Anyone done any real comparison and want to offer up their opinion?
I do appreciate hearing from folks about the Envoy XL. While I am sure I would be happy with a Yukon, my wife likes the Envoy XL better and will probably wind up driving it after we have our child in August.
Hopefully I will be able to trade in her Accord for a crew cab pickup in '04....
I really like my Envoy XL SLT and I have enjoyed sharing that experience with others.
But lately in these posts I've observed some weird expectations of these vehicles and some strange postings too. Some observations and thoughts:
1. These vehicles are trucks. If you wanted handling like a Viper or Vette you bought the wrong vehicle.
2. Trucks don't get great gas mileage so be prepared to pay extra at the pump.
3. Complaints about gas mileage. Two complete strangers in a beat-up Ford pick-up at the corner gas station smilingly asked me "Hey, what kind of mileage do you get with that bus?" Yuk, Yuk. I replied "If you have to ask, then you can't afford it." (I think these guys were out of jail under Wisconsin's Huber law program-(must return to jail at night-no, I am not kidding)).
3a. DIC needs to be reset at fill-ups. And, your gas mileage calculation should be: miles traveled between fill-ups/gallons of gas.
4. 1-2 upshift complaints. This is called understanding your vehicle and knowing how to drive it. Yes, it can be stump puller getting from 1-3 but it doesn't have to be. Try finding the sweet spot on the throttle between just moving and WFO, it will work, mine does.
5. Cold spots on heated seats. My rear must be too numb or fat to feel this condition. The lowest setting is too hot for me, but I enjoy the feature anyway.
6. Education, education, education. This is just one of many examples I could cite: No, the Envoy can not be compared to the Expedition. If you don't know this you are not prepared to purchase. If you purchase with this level of ignorance, you will be one of the unhappy owners writing in.
7. Read the owners manual. I have read lots of posts where it appears the manual has not been consulted.
8. The dealer seems to make the difference. I've read posts from people who are getting their vehicles serviced by the same people servicing farm machinery. Not recommended. Even in Wisconsin we have some great dealers and service technicians. Find them and buy from them.
9. Some people can not be helped. I know so little but what shocks me is that so many writing in know even less.
10. I like GMC's slogan "We are professional grade." "Get used to it." I think this fits my life-style. My Envoy is not a pretentious imported SUV with a high price tag. I like the fact that it represents good value at its price point, plus I am buying American which still matters a lot to me.
Can't imagine why they got an Envoy without the locking diff. I think that resulted in a built in bias against the Envoy. And inspite of that it still performed average in the off-road segment (meaning about half of the test vehicles performed worse than the Envoy). An open diff (front and rear) setup used to be considered the least capable 4WD but yet here it performed 'average'. Doesn't say much about the vehicles with the below average off-road performance.
"4. 1-2 upshift complaints. This is called understanding your vehicle and knowing how to drive it."
This is not just some phantom imaginary complaint from drivers that can't drive an automatic transmission. GM has specifically addressed these complaints and has issued engine and transmission calibration updates as per the current Techlink article "Cold Upshift Delay" also they have issued a new calibration for 1-2 upshift. If these complaints were not valid GM would not be making fixes.
The Car&Driver Comparo is an embarrassment to Americans and it is GMs fault. The near $40k Envoy coming in dead last? GM is a joke of a company today. I own two of their products (a 99 Blazer and 2k Silverado) and I can tell you that the overall quality is poor. I think GM has only one plastics scientist and uses this hard cheap stuff everywhere. The Toyota and VW SUVs put GM SUVs to shame. They have been doing their engineering homework and this is VW first SUV!
GM needs to do some real engineering to bring the interior, suspension, and overall quality up to world-class standards. Poor handling and brake dive have been complaints since GM introduced these SUVs. However, there is a problem here because to make an SUV ride well and handle well you need to do engineering, something that GM can no longer do. GM thinks the public won’t notice. Well, next time I am buying the Toyota or VW. I tried to give GM a second change and they blew it. GM still has not reached the bottom of the market share stakes.
I had the trans shift update done once back in August and it has a slight shudder 1-2 at part throttle, also the fluid has a slight burnt odor, so I think there is an issue here yet to be resolved.
Comments
The note on software updates is: "Programing updates areto be performed only if a customer complaint relates to the calibration as per General Motors policies and regulations."
I guess next time in I'll have to complain about the 1-2 shift.
"Are you sure you're talking about the GM Supplier Discount, and not the GM Employee discount? "
It's called "GMS". Even though I'm not a GM employee, I think this is the same as the discount the employees get. The reason it goes on the W2 (actually goes on my paycheck and taxed as income) is that is considered a taxable benefit.
Also the hatch does not always unlock with vehicle put in park. It requires a touch of the arm rest button.
I think this is intermittent.
Anyone else experience any type of oddity with the hatch locks?
When you get it done please give us a review. Take note of the before and after shift points.
I too have used buypower.com. I liked it at first, but after a while, I realized that I could not trust it to be current. Of the ~6 vehicles I sent a *hold for test drive message*, only 1 was available. Later found out the 1 was not even available. I liked the online searching but buypower really needs to do a better job matching up options with available vehicles. Only lets you see 3 or 4 vehicles per page, have to guess based on price which ones may be what you are looking for. I did like the fact that the salesperson does contact you right away.
Anyway, I was really hoping to get lucky and find one last Saturday so I felt like driving (at least until I was on the road).
Jerry Haggerty seems to be taking care of me so far. They have found 3 that match my specifics, have been very prompt and courteous. We will see if they can close the deal.
Mine is very sporatic and sometimes goes for months but it still, on occassion, does not unlock when the vehicle is in park and I have to use the fob or lock switch. I haven't even bothered to ask the service tech as I doubt they could duplicate it.
By the way, my '02 TB with build date of 5/02 ran perfect until I brought it to the dealer for the "vibration" problem. While there, they ran the latest "improvements". It now has less low RPM power / torque but seems to be tuned to the upper RPM range where it screams. I prefer the way it was. Problem is that the dealer cannot go back to an older program. Anyone else experience this? Thanks.
Thanks!
Info - GM Oil Life System - Resetting #02-00-90-001
GM Oil Life System™ -- Resetting
2002 Chevrolet and GMC S/T Utility Models (TrailBlazer, Envoy),2002 Oldsmobile Bravada
These vehicles have an oil life monitor. The GM Oil Life System™ will show when to change the engine oil and oil filter. The GM Oil Life System™ must be reset after changing the engine oil and oil filter.
Resetting Procedure
The current Owner's Manual contains the following reset procedure:
Turn the ignition to RUN with the engine off.
Fully press and release the accelerator pedal three times within five seconds. If the CHANGE ENG OIL light flashes for five seconds, the system is reset. If the light does not flash, repeat the procedure.
However, it has been found that after completing the reset procedure, the CHANGE ENG OIL light does not flash as stated in the vehicle Owner's Manual.
If the CHANGE ENG OIL light goes out after the reset procedure and does not return after the next ignition cycle, then the system has been reset.
If the vehicle is equipped with a Driver Information Center (DIC), then reset confirmation can also be done by verifying that the Engine Oil Life percentage value has reset to 100%.
Use the above information to prevent the inadvertent replacement of the instrument cluster if there are comments that the oil life reset feature does not work.
Don't ask me how to interpret this data. Without a printout of the software versions your particular vehicle came with I don't know. They likely have a way to read the version at the dealer when they plug in their scan tool to your vehicles computer.
"...they ran the latest "improvements". It now has less low RPM power / torque but seems to be tuned to the upper RPM range where it screams. I prefer the way it was. Problem is that the dealer cannot go back to an older program."
IMO trucks (and truck-based SUVs) ought to be peaked out for low RPM torque. That's what I am afraid of- having this done and not liking the results. Sometimes the latest software "update" causes changes or differences that are not desired (kinda like upgrading Windows or your computer BIOS) Sounds like they retuned yours for less low-end power off the line in an effort to get better "city" gas mileage. All I want ( I think) is the 1-2 upshift update if I knew what they meant by "improve feel of 1-2 upshift". Maybe I will just wait 'til Hypertech comes out with their reprogrammer. With that device, I believe you can reload your original saved software version.
http://service.gm.com/gmtechlink/images/issues/cnt_mo/TLDec02e.html
Most of the torque produced by this motor is higher in the rpm range than a 5.3L v8.
To GM's credit their torque curve on the Vortech motors is relatively flat. having more torque available throughout the rpm range.
I learned some things about running with the fan always on. First (as we all know!), it is loud. Second, others have commented about an extreme loss of power at times with the fan on (e.g. almost can't make it up a hill, etc. Much more loss of power than even a high CFM fan could suck up). I wonder if some of that isn't because people are just unwilling to accelerate as normal when it sounds like the engine is about to fly apart. I know I found it difficult to force myself to rev the engine like I normally do when starting up from stop. As a test I floored it and it revved to redline as normal and accelerated strongly. Lastly, since this happened Friday night and it would be several days before taking it in, I just unplugged the connector at the fan housing and the fan stayed off. (Maybe this would work for Northerners, who never want the fan to come on during the winter.)It's in the shop now.
A local dealer has an Envoy XL that is farily loaded out and a base model Yukon. After my GMS discount, they is basically a $500 difference in price.
I was wanting to hear from some folks who are satisfied with their Envoy XL and what kind of mileage are they getting (please post if you have 2wd/4wd and gear ratio). I am looking at a 2wd with the 3.42 gear ratio.
My wife is leaning towards the Envoy XL and I was leaning towards the Yukon because I thought it was bigger. Well after looking at the GMC website, the Yukon is only 8 inches longer in total length and has more room in the shoulder area, about 8 inches.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Gary
I encountered the same problem with what you see isn't necessarily what's available. After foolishly driving 40 miles to see a particular color of Bravada that a dealer had posted via Buypower, I was told they must have sold it recently. Nobody remembered it. Well, a month later it was still listed in their inventory on Buypower.
Oddly enough, I ended up buying my Bravada from the one dealer that was linked to Buypower. Their dealership name was listed, but not linked. They had what I was looking for and they were actually the closest to my home.
Another note about GM Buypower. The software isn't Apple Macintosh-friendly. Numerous attempts to e-mail dealers and Oldsmobile resulted in either frozen pages or e-mails returned as undeliverable.
GM Buypower is a nice concept, but it needs considerable work on execution. What the system should do is allow you to specify a vehicle at the GM site, provide a ZIP code, and get you linked to the vehicle closest to your specification in your geographic area. Instead, you have to work through slow responding links for all of the dealerships in your area and all of their inventory of the named vehicle, regardless of color or options.
While I'm at it, I'll take a shot at all of those internet car buying link sites. I tried them all. Several just emailed me that they didn't have an Oldsmobile link either nation-wide or in my area.
Others took all my specifications and selected dealer-partners in my area, and I never heard from any of the dealers. Yes, I provided that feedback to the home websites.
The last batch got me e-mails from local dealers, but as soon as I noted that I had provided specifications for color and options, they totally broke off contact with me. One even ignored two phone messages I left him after he indicated he could find the Bravada I wanted.
I suspect part of the problem is that I was looking for an Oldsmobile. I sense the Olds dealers are jumping ship rapidly and really don't want to invest much effort in sustaining normal sales activity for Olds. Just my impression.
I discovered a "sample defect" on my Bravada. I noticed that the front bumper side wrapping is apparently loose on the driver's side. I can push it in an it moves and bangs against something. Passenger side is solid. If I don't find a reason to see my dealer soon, I may just open the wheel well and tighten the connection myself.
Had a shock Monday night. I hit a bump and lights and gongs went off. I finally noticed that the DIC said that the rear window was a-jar. I stopped and checked it and it was a-jar. Apparently the lock slipped or disengaged when I hit the bump. Anyone ever experience this? I can't reproduce it, so I hesitate to mention it to dealer service.
The preceding are minor issues. Overall, this is one of the most comfortable and powerful vehicles I've ever driven. The ride is perfect, smooth and quiet. The power is really impressive (and I've owned muscle cars and turbo sports cars in my past). My wife isn't a truck person, but she finds ever excuse to drive the Bravada because of the ride and power. So far, a very satisfied buyer.
with a 3.42 rear end we are currently averaging 17.3Mpg over the life of the vehicle. Highway trips have been as good as 22Mpg. (73 MPH)
The published chart shows the torque is pretty much "flat" 275 lb-ft from about 1800 to 5000 RPM. Pretty broad range for a 6-banger.
Could some of you educate me on something. I keep hearing about this fan noise issue. Well, I have it to on colder mornings, it's about the same as the fan noise on the 4.3L Vortex V6. When I look at the fan it looks like a viscous clutch coupling to me. I don't see any electrical connection. The only way I can see that any reprogramming would have an effect on it would be to lower the shift rpm ranges, which would keep the fan speed lower thus producing less noise. If there's something I'm missing let me know.
Pulling my boat my 02 TB does great. But you have to get on the pipe to get up and go.
Compared to my 01 Silverado. The torque curves are noticeably different.
While the engine has the torque available at the low end. It is the rest of the drivetrain that has to get it to the ground. I feel that these vehicles have a little too high gear ratio in the 1st and second gear for the weight and engine.
Don't get me wrong though. I wouldn't trade my TB in for anything else... Well maybe a Yukon or Suburban in about 7 months when the baby arrives, we will be needing the additional room.
Still keeping an eye out on the Traiblazer to see if they ever get past the Windows 3.1 level software problems.
We will be looking for the extra room that is in the full size.
Our view is if you need the third row, the ease of parking does not outweigh the room that is in the Yukon or Suburban.
The locking rear differential locks the rear axles together so that all the power doesn't end up going to one wheel in slippery conditions, like in an open differential. In an open differential, torque is split 50/50 between the wheels, but if one starts to slip, it ends up with all the torque.
A locker maintains a 50/50 split between the wheels. Since it's harder to spin 2 wheels than one, it gives you more traction. However, it doesn't double the traction, like many people erroneously think.
Reason I ask is it seems from the chatter on the Expedition board that they may be making better deals on these than the Envoy. Anyone done any real comparison and want to offer up their opinion?
GS
Check out the July 02 Techlink issue above about the electronically controlled viscous fan clutches our triplets are graced with. Mines been engaged 3 mornings in a row at first start, now that the weather is colder. After a minute or two the viscous stuff in the clutch finally redistributes itself and all is normal.
Reason I ask is it seems from the chatter on the Expedition board that they may be making better deals on these than the Envoy. Anyone done any real comparison and want to offer up their opinion?
GS
Reason I ask is it seems from the chatter on the Expedition board that they may be making better deals on these than the Envoy. Anyone done any real comparison and want to offer up their opinion?
GS
Hopefully I will be able to trade in her Accord for a crew cab pickup in '04....
But lately in these posts I've observed some weird expectations of these vehicles and some strange postings too. Some observations and thoughts:
1. These vehicles are trucks. If you wanted handling like a Viper or Vette you bought the wrong vehicle.
2. Trucks don't get great gas mileage so be prepared to pay extra at the pump.
3. Complaints about gas mileage. Two complete strangers in a beat-up Ford pick-up at the corner gas station smilingly asked me "Hey, what kind of mileage do you get with that bus?" Yuk, Yuk.
I replied "If you have to ask, then you can't afford it." (I think these guys were out of jail under Wisconsin's Huber law program-(must return to jail at night-no, I am not kidding)).
3a. DIC needs to be reset at fill-ups. And, your gas mileage calculation should be: miles traveled between fill-ups/gallons of gas.
4. 1-2 upshift complaints. This is called understanding your vehicle and knowing how to drive it. Yes, it can be stump puller getting from 1-3 but it doesn't have to be. Try finding the sweet spot on the throttle between just moving and WFO, it will work, mine does.
5. Cold spots on heated seats. My rear must be too numb or fat to feel this condition. The lowest setting is too hot for me, but I enjoy the feature anyway.
6. Education, education, education. This is just one of many examples I could cite: No, the Envoy can not be compared to the Expedition. If you don't know this you are not prepared to purchase. If you purchase with this level of ignorance, you will be one of the unhappy owners writing in.
7. Read the owners manual. I have read lots of posts where it appears the manual has not been consulted.
8. The dealer seems to make the difference. I've read posts from people who are getting their vehicles serviced by the same people servicing farm machinery. Not recommended. Even in Wisconsin we have some great dealers and service technicians. Find them and buy from them.
9. Some people can not be helped. I know so little but what shocks me is that so many writing in know even less.
10. I like GMC's slogan "We are professional grade." "Get used to it." I think this fits my life-style. My Envoy is not a pretentious imported SUV with a high price tag. I like the fact that it represents good value at its price point, plus I am buying American which still matters a lot to me.
Best wishes to all, and Merry Christmas!
By the way, you XL and EXT owners would get a chuckle out of the Honda Pilot's third row seat, I know I did.
This is not just some phantom imaginary complaint from drivers that can't drive an automatic transmission. GM has specifically addressed these complaints and has issued engine and transmission calibration updates as per the current Techlink article "Cold Upshift Delay" also they have issued a new calibration for 1-2 upshift. If these complaints were not valid GM would not be making fixes.
GM needs to do some real engineering to bring the interior, suspension, and overall quality up to world-class standards. Poor handling and brake dive have been complaints since GM introduced these SUVs. However, there is a problem here because to make an SUV ride well and handle well you need to do engineering, something that GM can no longer do. GM thinks the public won’t notice. Well, next time I am buying the Toyota or VW. I tried to give GM a second change and they blew it. GM still has not reached the bottom of the market share stakes.