Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

aldan93

Hey, the loaner car the dealer gave me ,you can tell a few people took the frustration out!!!Its got a broken strut in the left rear, out of balance tires, can't do over 65 the wheel feels like its going to fall off, the radio kicks off when you hit a bump! FORD QUALITY!!!NO passing gear!!! It just revs! These things are fun to beat on!!!! Driving off curbs, muddy dog in the back seat!!! Neutral drops! Man I wish I still had a beater!

sportbikenut

First go to the "Vehicle Calibration Information" site that is mentioned here quite frequently at www.calid.gm.com/vci Plug in your VIN# and it will tell you if updates are available. You will need to know what calibration your vehicle currently has. My TB was just updated with #12583548, #12583714, and #12583719. These just became available within the last week. TB now runs the way it did on day one, before they neutered it with the previous update. Power and torque are back up and I have a feeling that the gas mileage will improve as well, due to less throttle required to maintain same speeds.

paulyjsob

Anyone have the part number for the pewter overhead console that comes on the 2003 Envoy? Thanks!

st1100v4

You always have to make up your own mind what you want in a vehicle. Tests can give good background but, as was mentioned, testers have their own biases and may have different criteria that they think are important.

As an example, these are two quotes from the Edmunds review: "...and an engine that couldn't quite overcome the V8s kept it from finishing higher" and "The TrailBlazer posted the best score in all three acceleration categories, while at the same time turning in the best mileage figure in the test." Now, how can an engine provide the best acceleration AND the best mileage, yet be considered inferior? If you read the whole article, it's apparently the off-the-line "feel" of the engine (talk about subjective!). But again, what is a better test of initial acceleration than 0-60? Do we care about 0-10 or 0-20?

scottc454

But again, what is a better test of initial acceleration than 0-60? Do we care about 0-10 or 0-20?

0-30 is probably a better test than 0-60 for everyday stoplight to stoplight driving. The V-8 has an advantage here due to greater low end power. There is something to be said for having that off the line grunt. Numbers don't tell the whole story.

These inline engines are great, but you need to get up into the powerband a bit to move these 4600 lb vehicles. That said, I still don't believe Ford's V-8 really has much more low end torque anyway.

Where the article really fails, is to not take into account highway passing. Low end grunt is good, but that's more of a convenience/fun issue. When you're merging onto the highway and a semi truck is coming at you, top-end horsepower is what it's about. This inline Vortec schools those V-8's in that department.

So I agree - better highway passing + better gas mileage trumps slightly better off the line acceleration.

st1100v4

Agreed. But I'd still like to see a time to speed chart of the TB vs Ex. "Feel" off the line is subjective, including factors like engine noise, tip-in rate, etc.

cparise1

Just a note to say that since the warmer spring weather has arrived my mileage is back to the upper 18's and often flirts with low 19's on my highway commutes.
'02 Envoy XL SLT. 3.42 axle.
Chris

medolark

Thanks for the info. I could not find the website you listed, but did access a GM site that provides the calibrations. (http://service.gm.com/index_en-US.html)
My 2002 Envoy does not list all the same numbers as you provided. I think I'll take it in and see what the service guys say.

rcf8000

I test drove an Envoy and was surprised at the sluggish off-the-line acceleration. It didn't meet my requirements, which I consider to be fairly modest. Same thing with the Mercury Mountaineer. In contrast, I find that the off-the-line acceleration of an RX300 is quite acceptable, even though the 0-60 time is a lot worse than the published figures for the Envoy.

envoy_xl_in_pa

It all depends on what you want in the vehicle - size, towing power, or off the line grunt. I have an 02 XL SLT with the 3.42 rear end, and I admit it takes a little more than I would like to get the thing moving off the line. But, I remember that the truck weighs almost 5000 pounds empty. The RX only has a curb weight of about 3700 lbs, while the Mountaineer weighs 4400-4500 lbs, depending on whether it is 4WD or AWD. The short Envoy also weighs close to 4600 lbs as well. While the off the line grunt is not ideal, the ability to get this engine to quickly move the truck to make a quick pass on a two lane highway is incredible, given the weight of the vehicle. The engine makes a satisfying hum, not a protesting moan. Best Engine I have ever owned. The Envoy also has a higher tow rating than the RX.

redline65

You want to feel sluggish, go test drive a Honda Pilot. Off the line that 3.5L engine revs high and it feels like you are barely moving.

st1100v4

At the risk of endlessly repeating myself, and putting words in rcf's mouth (keyboard?), I interpret a comment of "unacceptable" off-the-line acceleration to mean with an "acceptable" or "normal" amount of throttle application. If you really need it, push the loud pedal hard.

Mine ('02 Bravada, 2WD, 3.73) will break the tires loose on a dry road from a stop on WOT, without power braking. Essentially, the engine is giving the tires all they can handle, immediately off-the-line. I don't call that sluggish.

hardhawk

My '02 Envoy with the 4.10 rear axle accelerates just fine. I'd love to see an RX try to pull my 5000# boat & trailer. It wouldn't be the tires smokin' in that situation!!!

nuyorkah

"Anyone have the part number for the pewter overhead console that comes on the 2003 Envoy? Thanks! "

Sorry not possible, the console is not sold as a complete part.
You must buy the pieces separately.
.

richlavoie

Today in Canada, GMC came out with a special offer on the Envoy. The price of the base model 4x4 is now the same then the offer on the TB LS 4x4 1SB. That is the exact same veh, except for the usual better finish on the GMC. Is it the same in the US? Why is that? Can we expect a drop on the TB?

blrmkr

bruser1, Thank you for your information. I'm going to have the dealer spray more lube on the hood latch at the next oil change.

I think I finally discovered the real source of the noise. It appears to be coming from the moveable joint of the sun visor. When visor is up, the noise is practically unbearable, well annoying at the least. When the visor is down, the noise goes away. I'll let the dealer look into fixing it at the next oil change. I don't want to spray WD-40 up in there and have it drip down on me or the interior trim. I'm not at all impressed by the visor design as you have to remove the headliner to change it.

On a more positive note, I'm looking forward to some warm weather driving in 2HI this spring/summer! I've had enough A4WD and 4HI driving over the course of this past winter. BTW, did any Denver-area Triplet owners venture out in the 30+ inches of snow over the past few days?

moosuch1

I had a TrailBlazer rental on the first day it was snowing in Denver. 14500 miles on it, in pretty decent shape. About 20" snow on the ground when I had to take it back to Enterprise. It didn't drive worth a crap in the snow. It fish tailed a lot, spun tires (I was even in 4hi), didn't feel like it had a good hold on the road and speeds didn't exceed 30mph.

My '00 Explorer was in the shop (for the umpteenth time) and I was glad to get back into it to drive in the inclement weather. It held the road beautifully, didn't fish tail, didn't spin tires, and felt like it was riding on pavement.

Although the TBlazer had a bunch of get up and go and a nice smooth ride, the mileage sucked (11mpg compared to 17mpg for my Explorer) and it just plain sucked in the snow. I'll keep the Explorer -- plus I hear the new Explorer's are superior to the TBlazer anyway. But I won't make that assessment until I drive one. :-D

envoyenvy

Trust me, I have driven both a 2002 Explorer and a 2002 Envoy both around town and on long trips, there is no comparison. The Trailblazer had about 110 HP advantage to an '00 (unless it was V8) and something was wrong with it if it only got 11 mpg. The person that owns the Explorer is the reason for my name

2002slt

My ex girlfriend had a 2001 Explorer Limited. While I did like it, there was no comparison to my Envoy, both in the snow and on dry pavement. My Envoy just blows it away.
The only way I can make mine fishtail in 4Hi, is to crank the wheel to one side and stomp on the gas. Even then, it's more of a power slide than a fishtail. Since the Trailblazer is basically the same vehicle as the Envoy, there must have been a problem with the 4WD on the one you rented. People tend to beat on rented vehicles.

kimodo

Are freggen kidding me fishtailing in the snow? We had those big storms here in the northeast just a little while ago and the TB was great. I was just about passing everyone else on the highway, all sorts of other suvs, and other TBs as well. It does fish tail on 2wd, but on 4wd? Come on...I've always had japanese cars, and never drove with this much confidence in the snow. BTW, I get about 18 mpg. Never drove or owned an explorer, and probably never will, so I can't comment on that ride. I just had to add my 2 cents to that plug for ford, as a TB owner who drives it daily, and many times in the snow this season already. Never once did I fishtail...

ficuss

A few years ago when I had a Jeep, a co-worker and I were talking about driving in the snow with Jeeps. She said she never felt better than when driving the Jeep in the snow. She said she only got stuck once in the alley behind her house. I said the snow must have been very high for her to get stuck, especially with 4wd engaged. She said "what do you mean 4wd?" I asked her if she pulled the lever to engage 4wd. She asked where the lever was. We had a very good laugh. I've had some issues with my TB, but performance in the snow has been great, especially when in 4wd. BTW what kind of idiot would try to go over 30 mph with 20 inches of snow on the road? I wonder if that is part of the reason for Fords turning over?

Frank

tjcishere1

just the other morning i lowered the drivers and passenger window and heard a lite scraping noise. when i put the window back up i heard the same noise looking closely i noticed a few long scratches in the window glass. dirt or grit must have gotten stuck between the glass and the black molding last time i saw something like this was with an older car i had from rolling up and down the windows Took it to the dealer they will see what they can do. anyone else have this problem?
thanks

tlauro

YOU WROTE:
"I had a TrailBlazer rental on the first day it was snowing in Denver. 14500 miles on it.......It didn't drive worth a crap in the snow. It fish tailed a lot, spun tires (I was even in 4hi)"

REPLY:
First, rentals are not a great way to judge a vehicle since those are probably the worst 14k miles on it. Tons of other reasons too....

The handling you were experiencing...due to a lot of factors. One being the weather. Any 4x4 will spin it's wheels on snow...especially the snow of the century. 4x4's still only have 2-3 wheels with power. Locking Rear-Diffs are actually worse in snow if the driver isn't familar with them.

I don't have one and won't as they are really not needed in urban/city driving. I can bet the one you drove had it...otherwise you wouldn't fishtail unless you were going around a curve...and then it's an indication that you're going too fast.

YOU WROTE:
"didn't feel like it had a good hold on the road and speeds didn't exceed 30mph."

REPLY
Depending on the road conditions, yes, 30mph could be too fast. Let's not make a Urinary Olympic Even of it....the 4x4 Triplets are great in snow.

YOU WROTE:
"My '00 Explorer was in the shop (for the umpteenth time) and I was glad to get back into it to drive in the inclement weather. It held the road beautifully, didn't fish tail, didn't spin tires, and felt like it was riding on pavement."

REPLY:
Cool...sounds like you have a nice ride and are used to it. Remember, the two 4x4 systems are similiar, so chances are there are minor reasons you were not used to the TB. One big one that tends to fool people is that the TB rides very soft and thus you won't "feel" the road/snow clumps like you would on your Explorer, thus the feeling of "floating" above the road. You actually are in both cases but the TB cradles you

YOU WROTE:
"Although the TBlazer had a bunch of get up and go and a nice smooth ride, the mileage sucked........plus I hear the new Explorer's are superior to the TBlazer anyway. But I won't make that assessment until I drive one. :-D "

REPLY:
Mileage will very depending on the treatment and care of the vehicle. The one you drove is a rental...no need to say more really.

I wouldn't say the New Explorer is better. IMO, that statement will very depending on each persons needs/desires. I didn't like the blah styling, the low power...even in the V8 and the ride...while nice and certainly sportier...not what I desired in an SUV. Besides...they are so common and typical looking. I had the advantage of getting my LTZ in June 01 when not many were out there.

tim

tlauro

YOU WROTE:
"I test drove an Envoy and was surprised at the sluggish off-the-line acceleration. .....I find that the off-the-line acceleration of an RX300 is quite acceptable, even though the 0-60 time is a lot worse than the published figures for the Envoy."

REPLY:
As others have mentioned, the weight and gearing are major factors. The RX is much smaller than the others and has a different Torque to Weight ratio. Most likely geared like a car too.

The Triplets and Mercury are on Truck Frames, much larger, geared much differently and have a power range that is set up for different uses such as towing and moving a rear drive 4x4 down the road.

The 275hp I6 will definitely outrun the RX but it's not a dragster or set up for stoplight races. Merge on the highway with one and you'll find yourself putting the brakes on for the guy in front of you. I race on the weekends and toy with all types of vehicles. The I6 has a midrange powerband that will keep up with / exceed many sport sedans. Try the 45-80mph run and you'll see what I mean. Passing, merging and everyday events are fun. Stoplight run with a sports car.

aldan93

It was an out of round drive shaft!!!

Man the guys truck above, I was eyeing the WAAG rear guard!!!!!I was thinking of going with the low profile WAAG brush guard in the front, because the full one kind of kills the overall look!

The guy talking about fish tailing in snow? I owned an explorer 1997, Brand NEW, What a slug, AVG MPG 14, Highway 19 down a hill maybe! My TB same commute, 18ish 50% city 50% Highway! The TB is by far the best vehicle I have ever driven in the snow, with the stock tires! And by the way Total snowfall for the southtowns of Buffalo is already over 110" for the year! SO I KNOW SNOW! For two months I was in AWD, or 4HI!!! Almost 60 days straight!

If I sounded like I complained about the TB for its Initial Quality, I would recommend this vehicle and this platform to anyone!!! All problems solved!!!!! 100%

tlauro

YOU WROTE:
"Man the guys truck above, I was eyeing the WAAG rear guard!!!!!I was thinking of going with the low profile WAAG brush guard in the front, because the full one kind of kills the overall look!"

REPLY
Thanks for the kind words. Here's the front view



-tim

cebteb

The Bravada and I sat the "storm of the century" out. My work was shut down Tuesday through Thursday, so I didn't have a reason to try to drive in that mess. On Wednesday, some suburbs were ticketing drivers on the road who couldn't demonstrate that they were essential personnel (BTW, those out, also had to be AWD or 4WD to satisfy the lawmen).

I had 30 inches of snow (36" fell, but much of the early stuff compressed to slush, reducing the ground depth) with some 4 foot plus drifts (thanks to some inconsiderate plow drivers) in my cul de sac. That stuff was so heavy it was clogging snow blowers. I was wiped-out after shoveling 1K SF of driveway and sidewalk, Tuesday and Wednesday. No way was I going to take a brand new, $30K+ vehicle, and try to blast through the cul de sac. I shoveled a path out on Thursday.

Other snow/ice driving this fall/winter hasn't been a problem with the '03 Bravada. It provided a very safe and secure feeling as long as I didn't try to drive corners and curves at slalom course speeds. Over the years I've noted that the majority of the "stuck in a ditch" vehicles on a "snow day" have been SUVs and 4X4 PU trucks. Apparently a lot of drivers believe that AWD/4WD is supposed to make driving on snow like driving on dry pavement.

Well, we are supposed to get another big snow storm next week, so maybe the Bravada will get a chance to prove itself then.

aldan93

Thats funny, that is exactly the combo I want, I didn't notice it from the last pic. Can I ask you, where did your WAAG items? Also, if your interested in a K & N air filter, they sell on Ebay for like 52.00 buucks, Autozone wanted almost 79.99 bucks? Well anyway, all you need now is some 20" tires, with slotted rotors! Bling Bling, or maybe not, it might be overkill. Plus they would steal it!!!

tlauro

Thanks for the kind words. I helped put together the information on WAAG for others. See my site that while needs updates badly, is still up and going.
http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/1-main-page.html

I already have the K&N Setup(s) both open cone and Cold Air Intake. See my modifications section.

No rims or tires here though. I do go off road and can't run 20's like that there

Take care.

momstruck1

I just noticed a slight scratch on my rear passenger side window but I think it is also on the front drivers side also . I am unsure how they got there but if you find out any reason besides small rocks getting in there let me know .I just can't see how they got in there but anything is possiable with this truck.

momstruck1

ever used it? I really can't stand this truck not so much the truck as the customer service at GM/Chevy. I just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with this service. All I can say is it is 2 strikes for Chevy 2 cars in a row that seem to always be in the shop. Am I the only one seeing this much of a problem . The truck still has a rattling / bumping noise in the front end and the 2w/4AWD/4hi/4lo gear changer was replaced and now I noticed that it doesn't shift to 4lo it just blinks when I switch it there. So here we go again . The best is the dealership I really like to deal with had a fire and I can no longer go to the dealership closer to me for fear of losing my mind with them . They seem to think that I am a dumb woman with no brains in a SUV. My noise is my shocks that were just replaced by them so who is the dumb one there?? How can you tell me that when you just fixed that problem?? Is it me or do some men (NOT ALL MEN JUST SOME) think when you see a woman bring in a car they can walk all over you?I really need to vent sorry guys it just seems to me I am getting no where fast with Chevy and with two years left I just want to get out as quick as possiable. I am heading over to honda after the lease is up or I put it up on swap a lease. Still undecided .

2002slt

Did you read the manual on how to shift into 4lo? It states that your transmission MUST be in neutral for it to engage, or the indicator will just blink as you described. I'm not implying that you don't know this, I just know that I've overlooked things like this in the past.
Also, you really only need to use 4lo if you're stuck. I personally have never needed it.

paulpro

IMO, the exhaust tip outlet on the Triplets is butt ugly. I've seen a few owners have modified theirs to a chrome "straight out" tube, ie Acura or BMW style. There is one thread about buying a tip from "Pep Boys" and putting it on but we don't have Pep Boys in the Saint Louis area.

Can anyone comment on what was involved in putting on these tips? Cut the outlet off at the bend then clamp on one of these? any problems or things to be aware of?

Can anyone identify the manufacturer of a dual tip outlet that is affordable? I know that is subjective but $75 for an exhaust tip is a little pricey.

Any help you can pass on sure would be appreciated.

Paul P

nuyorkah

Here is a link for the GM Officially Licensed Exhaust Tip from Corsa. At $149.99 I don't think they will be selling many of these.
They have install instruction you can look at to get an idea of whats involved.

http://www.corsaperf.com/truck_suv_tips.htm

beach15

Rainier:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H13D25DE3

Trailblazer:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z36D51DE3

Trailblazer EXT:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A57D15DE3

Bravada:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O28D14DE3

Envoy:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K19D21DE3

Envoy XL:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W5AD21DE3

st1100v4

Two quotes pretty much sum up their experience with the TB for 12 months, 35,777 miles.
"Driving it was fine, but in its yearlong stay with us the TrailBlazer was plagued with problems, pretty much right from the beginning."
Last paragraph: "As an all-around commuter/family hauler/worker bee, the TrailBlazer was conceptually good. Too bad it wasn't more reliable."

scottc454

I drove from Denver to Utah on Wednesday. Enough said.

smfran

Tim - You've done a great job with your truck. It looks great.

richlavoie

What an article. It makes you think, doesn't it. If GM doesn't get it together soon, not too many people would buy the TB. Man, it is beginning to sound like a FORD!!!

gam2

I got mine at Checker Auto. It says it's 100% stainless steel, but triple chrome plated also???
They have straight cut and angle cut. I got the angle cut from 3ARacing, p/n622354, $24.99. It says it fits up to 2-1/2" pipes but it worked on the Envoys 2-3/4" pipe. I cut the pipe at the bend with a hacksaw and installed the tip. I may take the screws out and have a my friend tack weld it in place for a slightly better apearance.

GAM

momstruck1

yes I did know that you need to be in N for it not to blink but it was still blinking. I really was just testing it since everything else it went in the shop for that day doesn't seem to be fixed either. I think I am getting the run around!!! Thanks anyway though.

giddens_john

Some of the deletions strike me as odd like "Remove cargo power point" which is something I use in mine for an electric cooler.
I could complain about some of the deletions and praise some of the New Features but I'll keep quite since I'm happy with my '02.

envoyowner

I would like to purchase a bike rack that fits in the trailer hitch. I have a 2002 Envoy SLT w/ towing package. Seems the standard size hitch receivers are 1 1/4" and 2". I think 2 is correct for the Envoy. Am I right?
Thanks!

redline65

The new N75 wheels for the '04 Envoy look a little funky, don't they?

scottc454

Yes. It's a 2" hitch.
(insert lengthy sarcastic remark about not just using a ruler or tape measure)

blrmkr

envoyowner- I'd recommend a Yakima Roc 2 (or 4) with a StratLock. I bought one 20% off MSRP last year at REI's spring sale. This year's sale should be comnig up pretty soon. There is very minimal horizontal sway since the hitch pin screws the rack to the receiver. Driving 70 MPH, there is a little vertical movement when loaded, but it's hardly noticeable. The best part about the rack is that after a muddy run, the mud stays outside the Triplet.

There is one "bad" point. If you leave the rack on w/o a bike, people in parking lots tend to clothesline themselves. One person at work has done it and I came out of a restaurant once to find an orange caution cone behind my TB. Oops.

momstruck1

a great read I am a little amused with their point of the trailblazer and GM coming to get it from them maybe GM will just come and take mine too...LOL I think that GM needs to get it together and maybe concentrate on one car company instead of three ,four or however many they are up to now because it seems that ford may start giving them a run for their many in the worst car company contest.

scottc454

I too have a Yakima hitch mounted rack and recommend it. It's very quick and easy to mount and unmount a bike. Just put it on, fasten 3 rubber strap things and you're off.

scottc454

I just looked at Autoweek's other long term tests. Seems they have bad luck across the board.

envoyeur

I just picked up a new Thule Expressway hitch mounted rack this weekend. It has some new features for 2003. It includes a hitch lock to prevent the whole thing from being stolen. It includes an integrated cable lock to keep the bikes from being stolen. It also includes FOLDING forks so that when you unload the bikes you can fold the forks down so they are not sticking out in the way. Paid $250 for mine.

I also picked up a Thule Rollercoaster (same as Yakima Hully Roller - different design). I pick up a kayak this weekend so I will let you know how well (or not) it works.