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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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    2002slt2002slt Member Posts: 228
    You should use 3rd gear when towing a 3,000lb trailer. It's much easier on the transmission.
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    aldan93aldan93 Member Posts: 202
    I put on about 1000m in the last two weeks, highway averaged aprox 22MPG 65-75MPH, my regular commute is around 18-19 MPG, 50/50 city highway. I also have the 3.42, My TB is an 03. Hmmm 19 on the highway, are you going 80MPH? Seems your TB is lacking, The only difference is my K&N air filter, maybe thats the only difference?
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    aldan93aldan93 Member Posts: 202
    I also have the 3.42 axle, towing a 3000lb trailer will be a piece of cake!!! I'll back the last guy up just use the 3rd gear setting, you won't get that drag or sluggishness when going up pikes peak! I have yanked a few boats around 5k I realized that the 3rd setting was awesome, just wish I had the air level like the Envoy, oh well!!
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    9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    I believe the manual calls for 3rd to be used for towing.

    Pulled a flat deck with a Camaro on board from from Dallas to Winnipeg. 3rd gear, 70 - 75 mph, 10 mpg, never struggled on hills. Gas stop every 150 miles :(
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    malibu99malibu99 Member Posts: 305
    I know this might seem like a totally silly dumb question...but I was reading the list of changes on the Trailblazer for 2004 and one of them is a "monochromatic" dash. What the heck does that mean?
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    dlaredlare Member Posts: 43
    Does anyone else find that when towing 3000-4000 lbs, that the tranny doesn't want to upshift into 2nd and then 3rd when it should? After mine's warm (after towing for 1 miles or so) I have to nearly remove my foot from the gas to get it to upshift, and by then I've lost enough momentum that it needs to downshift again. Frustrating.

    The power and tourque are great, as it has had all the latest PCM updates.

    Dean
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    scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    Monochromatic means all one color.
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    9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    What do you mean by "when it should"?

    With the load I would expect it to hold the lower gears much longer than under normal driving conditions.
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    paulyjsobpaulyjsob Member Posts: 48
    I towed about 3000 lbs on the fourth through VT (VERY hilly). On straight aways I kept it in D but when approaching a hill, I would drop it into 3rd. For the most part I maintained 70-75mph with 5 people in the car and a lot of baggage. I got about 15-16 mpg on the trip. Its an 03 Envoy SLE w/ 3.72.
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    dlaredlare Member Posts: 43
    9t9wu8,

    When I said "when it should" I meant that on level ground, it should eventually shift into 2nd and then 3rd as the engine vacuum increases to a certain level. Normally, this can be induced by slightly reducing pressure on the throttle by "tricking" the drivetrtain into thinking that the load is reduced a little and it's OK to shift to the next higher gear. Mine does this fine for about the first 10 miles or so of towing (3-4000 lbs). But after that, it will stay in 1st if I hold the throttle constant and she's singing along at 4500rpm steady speed, long after it should have shifted into 2nd. It does the same thing on the 2nd-3rd shift to the point where I nearly have to remove my right foot to get it to upshift. Then the truck slows too much to hold in third gear and it soon has to downshift back into 2nd. If I don't lift my foot, the truck will keep cruising at 4000 rpm, neither slowing down nor speeding up, it just doesn't want to shift up into 3rd. If I lightly lift my right foot, the rpm will drop and the truck will slow down, but still not shift into 3rd. I would think that this action should cause an immediate upshift.

    Keep in mind this is in the level flatlands of NW Ohio.

    Dean
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    lurker01lurker01 Member Posts: 103
    Got home from a 10 day vacation. Went to start the truck this morning and it was dead as a doornail. After getting a jump, I drove it to work. It has 30700 miles on it. This has never happened before. As far as I know, the truck has sensors that turn everything off in case you leave something on. So, how could it drain the battery in only 10 days??? Is this normal, a defect or a bad battery? Any simular experiences out there?

    thanks.
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    bobbiesbobbies Member Posts: 34
    To David (MC3dah)...why did you pay for lugs out of pocket? Wouldn't that be a warranty item as defective lugs??
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    gator36gator36 Member Posts: 294
    Just thought you should know. The trans is electronically shifted on the 4L60E trans which is in the triplets. The MAP sensor on the Intake (vaccum)is used for emissions and fuel feedback purposes. The trans is shifted by RPM's Line pressure, Load and the Throttle Position Sensor.

    Walter
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    aldan93aldan93 Member Posts: 202
    This is common, after 14 days! 10 seems a little short? Best bet disconnect the battery next time! LOL what do expect for 30K.
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    aldan93aldan93 Member Posts: 202
    Means black/white! The dash will be black on white or vs.
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    mc3dahmc3dah Member Posts: 6
    Bobbies: That's the problem I'm having with the dealer right now. The service manager has never seen lug studs stretch like this, so he has no precedent to go by. He asked the regional GM rep what to do, but the Rep needs to look at the studs first. I'm sure they think I over torqued them, but I didn't. They haven't said they will not pay yet, so I still have hope they I will be reimbursed.
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    mc3dahmc3dah Member Posts: 6
    My 2002 Envoy, with locking diff and 3.73 axle, while pulling a 3500 pound boat, over varying terrain, has never had RPM's that high prior to shifting. I will tow in D on flat roads at constant speeds, and down shift to 3rd when the speed starts to sag on hills.
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    kgbkahnkkgbkahnk Member Posts: 89
    I had the exact same problem, except that mine went dead in 7 days the first time. (Was told that TB's have terrible parasitic draw, but they gave me a new battery) The second time it only took four days to drain it flat, so they kept it for about a week and finally figured out that the rear hatch power locking mechanism had a problem that was causing the drain.

    BTW: my TB, however, only had about 1,800 miles on it when this problem showed up.

    Good luck.
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    tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    If it does turn out that the parasitic drain over 10-14 days is "normal" I would suggest getting a trickle charger to maintain the battery when you leave for a week or two at a time. You could even hook up a cord with a lighter plug on one end and simply plug it into one of the DC accessory-lighter jacks to feed the trickle charge without opening the hood. That way things don't have to be reset, as would happen if you just disconnect the batt. Running a car battery down just a few times will damage it. Plus, disconnecting a battery terminal does pose a few minor risks: a spark, glitching the PCM/BCM, damaging a terminal, etc. Also keep an eye on the hydrometer (eye) on the battery. Should be green. Unfortunately I read GM is deleting the Delco Eye on new batteries. A fully charged car battery should have 12.8V across its terminals.
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    kgbkahnkkgbkahnk Member Posts: 89
    FWIW: My TB is our third vehicle. My wife and I each have a commuter car with a boatload of miles, so the TB usually sits M-F, and it's not uncommon for it to sit for 2 weeks and sometimes even 3 or 4 weeks without turning a wheel, and I've not had a dead battery in over a year. So I'm guessing you've got something more that just parastic drain.

    *AND*......before you jokers give me a bunch of grief (like my neighbors do) about the TB sitting in the garage, let me say that my '92 Accord has over 207,000 miles on it, and I *know* it's just a matter of time before it decides to take a dump. So when it does puke on me, at least I'll have the TB ready (paid for?) to be pressed into daily service and not have to rush out to buy a new set of wheels.
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    scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    If it does turn out that the parasitic drain over 10-14 days is "normal"...

    No way is it normal. Lots of us take vacations of 1 or 2 weeks at a time. Surely we can't be expected to worry about batteries dying in that time.
    Don't monkey around with disconnecting batteries and hooking up chargers. You'll be treating the symptoms without fixing the problem.

    If you want to track down the problem yourself, get one of those test lights, pull a fuse and bridge the circuit with the light. If the light comes on for something it shouldn't, there's a short there.

    I hate electrical problems.
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    lawrencew1lawrencew1 Member Posts: 15
    Please explain how this light sensitive mirror works? Mine gets dark when its dark or night-time and lightens up when it is light or bright out. Service MGR says thats how it works, I would assume that it would darken as light reaches the sensor.
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    tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    http://service.gm.com./gmtechlink/arcv_pdf/4_02_e.pdf

    Some amount of parasitic drain is normal. If the battery is not charged fully when you park the vehicle for a couple of weeks, you can wind up with a discharged battery. Check out the April '02 Techlink article.
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    lurker01lurker01 Member Posts: 103
    I'll be taking it in for another round of issues next week and this will be at the top. The battery seems to be holding a charge for now.

    Another interesting note: The driver side mirror has gone out again. I think I may have a theory on the cause. I took the truck to a car wash recently and they folded in the side mirrors. When they pulled them out, the guy knocked the the mirror out of alignment. After that, I started to notice it vibrating from wind buffeting at high speeds. Then the mirror started to drift out of place when using the key fob. My bet is that the supports inside the mirror are flimsy, they get broken or damaged and then the sensors or adjusters start to go out of whack. This will be my 4th driver side mirror!

    I hope they don't do that recall on the emergency release. I had to use that to roll the truck out of the garage a bit to jump it when the batt died!

    BTW, My 2 cents: 30K+ miles, getting around 17mpg mixed driving. 4:10 rear gears. I6 standard length SLT. Decent accel from stop. Good accel at freeway speeds. Very smooth ride (air susp). Very low road noise (even compared to my A4).
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    You can go straight to the source at Gentex, the company that makes them.

    The mirrors should darken when more light is available.

    tidester, host
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    9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    Sorry if I sounded like a dealer service rep .... something is definitely wrong with the shifting.
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    brunopuntzjonebrunopuntzjone Member Posts: 22
    Something that I've always found odd on GM trucks. No red-line indicator. All of my cars have them. Just not in the trucks. Surely I don't red-line at 7000 :p

    What's the red-line for I6 TB?
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    scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    6300

    I guess they figured it's not necessary to point it out because it's rev limited.
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    dse1dse1 Member Posts: 22
    I was rotating tires at home. only one lug broke, and they covered it under warranty. Did you really break lugs on ALL 4?

    I wouldn't trust the rev limit, it's also supposed to stop at 4k in first gear (doesn't)...
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    scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    The rev limiter works fine. Just put it in neutral, floor it and you'll see.

    It's not supposed to stop at 4000 in first gear. Where'd you hear that? That would make no sense.
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    tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    They are "required" to do the safety recall on the shift lock. email me and I will send you some info about it you might find useful. Also even after they remove the lever, there is still a way.. just not as obvious.
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    bingotcbingotc Member Posts: 3
    I want to thank everyone for helping me decide between the v8 and the 6. We went with the 8 and so far are very happy with it. We bought it Saturday morning and ran home and packed and were on the road by 5 p.m. The ride was comfy and we were impressed by the mileage even through hilly and curvy roads. We like the separate climate controls. And on the homelink thing we figured out we could talk in to it and have it repeat back to us. pretty cool. thanks again
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    tmac8tmac8 Member Posts: 32
    Sweet looking system. I've been contemplating this exhaust for about four months now, but I can't find anyone who has it to comment on the performance gains if any. I started with the Airaid intake, added the Jet performance chip, and will add the Borla exhaust if I can find out if it helps performance. Any comments including installation time would be greatly appreciated.
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    dse1dse1 Member Posts: 22
    Well, I can't seem to find either (6300 or 4k) rpm cutoff in the owners or service manual, just claims 'do not operate with tach in the shaded area '(2002 models) . Think I'm probably mixing up that with my old saturn (manual) since their owners manuals were more descriptive.

    but there was some discussion of it back in the day:
    posts 3448,3449, and 3455
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    iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    Congrats on your new SUV! From one V-8 owner to another, you will MOST DEFINITELY appreciate the extra grunt of the V-8's power..

    Yesterday, I drove from my first home in Michigan back to my second home in Ohio with my Envoy loaded to the ceiling with "stuff." Unfortunately I had so much junk in the SUV that I could barely see out of the back window! With only 3k on the odometer, the ride, handling and performance was top notch! I was able to pass others on the road without any effort at all. I definitely appreciate the power of the V-8 in the extended models, especially after my recent trip from Michigan to Nebraska in my aunt's TB LT EXT (6 Cylinder). The Bose system along with the multi-adjustable seats kept me content along the way.

    This trip, I had the opportunity to put the "pedal to the metal" and boy was I surprised! Excellent passing power, even with the A/C on and the heavy cargo. Additionally, I averaged 19.4 MPG the entire trip! Not bad for a V-8 eh?

    I wish you the best with your new vehicle and last but not least, any particular mods or accessories that you are planning to install on your new SUV? Thus far, I have not done anything major to my Envoy with the exception of the SUV door guards that I installed two days ago. Also, I am still exhausted from applying the Zaino Brothers wax system to my vehicle this past Tuesday! The process pretty much took a full 10 hours (including an exterior hand wash and de-tarring from the roads), but was well worth it.

    I am contemplating on purchasing a set of mud guards (if I can find a set that requires no drilling) and maybe the rear bumper step that Tim Lauro had installed on his Trail Blazer. Other than that, maybe an extra set of wireless headphones for the 3rd row passengers to listen to the DVD unit. Why are they not included in the Extended models? Geesh! Out of all the lousy ways to save a buck! Ha, ha :-)

    Happy Motoring!

    IExplore2000
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    tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    From the Jan '01 Techlink atricle "The Vortec 4200 provides 270 hp @ 6000 rpm, the torque is 275 lb/ft @ 3600 rpm, and there's a rev limiter set for 6300 rpm."

    Here's a link to the spec sheet I saved. Shows trans upshift at 6100 and Rev limit at 6300.

    4.2L Spec Sheet
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    tmac8tmac8 Member Posts: 32
    You're right about Hypertech. Received an e-mail back from them telling me not in the works and don't hold your breath. I'm going to have to do some experimenting before I can give an accurate opinion on the Jet chip. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had a recall done at the dealer and they upgraded the computers to 2003 specs "as a bonus" (2002 Envoy). Since then it runs different. After 10 months you get used to the way a vehicle feels, and the computer upgrades changed that. I can say the trans shifts are firm now, and at full throttle, shifts at 6200 rpm where as before was right at 6000. (Chip was installed 2 days after upgrades). So, to wrap this post up, here's the plan. Remove the chip for 2 weeks, get the feel for the vehicle, then re-install the chip and evaluate. I'll keep you posted. Last comment; I sure loved the way it performed before the dealer got a hold of it. Really ticks me off what they did. Still going to ask them if they can change it back, but as you stated in an earlier post, I'm not holding my breath on that one either.
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    dkmtbext2003dkmtbext2003 Member Posts: 4
    >You're right about Hypertech. Received an e-mail back from them telling me not in the works and don't hold your breath...

    Why mess around with removing and re-installing the "chip" when you can use timed runs between certian RPMs or MPH, or get on a dyno? I've literally done what seems like a hundred such timed runs in my Ford Taurus SHO gauging the effects of mods before getting on a dyno. Timed runs do not lie like the butt dyno does as long as you do direct before and after runs wiht the same temp, Bar, Humidity...

    Don McKinnon
    2003 TB EXT
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    jcat707jcat707 Member Posts: 169
    My brother just bought a 2003 Envoy SLT 4WD with the polished wheels. These wheels are very shiny however, I noticed that some of the older Envoys on the road with the polished wheels look like they have some kind of gold tint on them and they look kind of dull. Did they change the coating on the wheels for 2003 or am i just crazy.
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    9t9wu89t9wu8 Member Posts: 36
    The service writer at the dealer mentioned in passing that the fading/discoloring wheels are 1 problem I'm NOT having. So no, you're not crazy.
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    burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Are the wheels actually polished? Or are they clear coated?
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    tb4metb4me Member Posts: 41
    Mday,

    Had 2 coils go in 1 day--was really ugly trying to get to the dealer. Had about 40,000 mi. or so when they went. 65,000 plus miles now and ---knock on wood!! But ---the muffler went about a week ago. $466 and change from the Dealer!! for just the part--Went to Mineke and all is well.
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    nuyorkahnuyorkah Member Posts: 100
    "My brother just bought a 2003 Envoy SLT 4WD with the polished wheels. These wheels are very shiny however, I noticed that some of the older Envoys on the road with the polished wheels look like they have some kind of gold tint on them and they look kind of dull. Did they change the coating on the wheels for 2003 or am i just crazy."

    The 2002 wheels are tinted gold and are supposed to look that way. They are not fading, discolored or anything else.
    GM changed this for 2003.
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    bradrx7bradrx7 Member Posts: 29
    I have a friend who is a regional service rep that is doing some research regarding tank, straps, sender and ECU problems. I'll report in, of course, but was wondering of anyone else has looked into this?
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    mcali17mcali17 Member Posts: 22
    OK
    1) Borla Dual Exhaust: You can get the stock exhaust system out in one piece, but to do so you need to drop the rear end and take the driver's side coil spring out. Not to hard to do, if you have the right tools and access to a lift." Sorry about that Tblazed. Why they don't supply those bolts, you got me, we had those bolts in stock at our shop when my brother did the install on my 2002 Envoy, so I never knew they weren't provided.

    2) Envoy rims: They had a gold tint in 2002 that was dropped and changed to clear coat in 2003. I can send you the change list if you don't believe me. So the service writer doesn't know what he is talking about, or is confusing your question with another issue.

    3)Hypertech: My contact there has been telling me that they are working on the 4.2 and have been for some time. I too am getting tired of waiting, but I already own a programmer, form my '97 Jimmy that they said they can convert for me for a fee. But I think if I can find someone to buy it from me I might dump it. How much longer can this take? Or is the problem just that they can't get anything else out of this motor, which I find hard to believe.

    Just my 0.02.
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    tb4metb4me Member Posts: 41
    Ok, I may be snake bitten,but I won't let the dealeship reprogram the PCM after all that I've read recently. Actually it's still very responsive and --and---and getting about 18 miles/per on the highway. I changed the brakes at about 50,000 and I've come across a slow caliper on the right front side. Will be replacing it with an after market caliper--don't even want to know the GM replacement price. For the tire enthusisats, I have replaced the 245 60 16 stock tires with a 285 65 series 65 series on the stock rims. It kinda floats a little more--have to kick up the air pressure a bit --to about 39-40 lbs-- but is really not that bad. The tires are Perilli Scorpions the winter bite is really nice in 4 wheel--NJ weather that is.

    This site is awesome! Keep up th good work everyone. We will master GM pretty soon!!
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    labrecquelabrecque Member Posts: 18
    Well, my Envoy died today. About three weeks ago, was driving and it stopped running for no reason then retstarted and ran fine. Brought it to dealer and was told a lose wire. Well guess what, it died again todayk, but it will not start or even engage the starter. Gages flutter all over. Across the DIC it said service brakes and airbag? UHm? Anyone else have this issue? What could it be? Also, during the service,had them check for the clunk in the rear end. Was "fixed" but it still does it when stopped at a light. Becoming very upset with my Envoy.
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    gam2gam2 Member Posts: 316
    I'm guessing they can't find enough power to make much of a difference. I think they are doing a good job nowadays. Chips really help on turbo cars where they can increase boost to get more power.

    tb4me: If your numbers are correct, your new tires are considerably taller than stock (11%). How far off is your speedo?

    GAM
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    kenymkenym Member Posts: 405
    Does the Borla system run from the manifold back to actually increase the horsepower and performance of the engine or just from the Catalytic Converter Back to only change the sound of the engine? I thought I read someplace that the cost of the Borla system was around $800 bucks.
    Thanks Ken
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    tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    To be EPA legal, it has to be a Cat-back system. It should flow better than stock from that point on, since the area of the two tail pipes is greater than the stock single pipe, and the resonators are straight through vs the stock chambered, baffled tail pipe muffler-resonator. Less restriction and back-pressure. And yes it is $785 avg price.
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