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Comments
I have numerous friends with Explorers 2003's with 8000-17K they are saying the ride is getting very soft after 5K, its like driving a bus around the corner.
Can't say that about my 2003 TB, solid.
pilot? Way over priced jacked up caravan looking thing. Ugly.
Murano? looks like a jacked up PT cruiser, can you tow with it? NO ROOM
Highlander, looks nice, a little pricey, not bad, pretty solid vehicle.
Tahoe: very nice but seemed too big. I have three little kids, but still the wife will drive it the most...power is very nice. V8 is quiet and doesn't work hard at all for city driving. Price is up there, but they appear to hold their value better. Discounts of about $3k.
Pilot: nice size. Bigger than an Envoy/TrailBlazer but smaller than a tahoe. Very nice. Towing is good. 4500 and that includes passangers and cargo. so towing is about the same a the trailblazer. Nice third row seats, but little cargo room if they are used. 48 inches between the wheel wells. Quick steering that almost felt too quick for the size. Accleration is good even with less power/torque. Uses 0w-20 oil. Good luck finding that. Donut spare tire(I think) But Price !?! wow. 28K on up. About 31K for Pilot EX to match the trailbazer LS. MSRP take it or leave it. Add about $1000 for dealer installed towing. Better reliability? well maybe but the new Pilot has had recalls too. Not as many however. Possibly would be my choice if I won the lottery, but that price is getting close to a Tahoe...
TrailBlazer/Envoy: nice. easy to drive. back seat is just barely wide enough for 3 kids in booster seats. Cargo area is about the same size as my Subaru Outback. That seems small for a 'bigger' SUV. Power is good. $30K but big discounts!
Trailblazer XL: Long wheel base helps the stability and ride, but its noticably harder to turn. Third row doesn't fold flat, but its close. Second row of seats is not real comforatble and very 'bench' feeling. More cargo room than the short Trailblazer. Power is OK with the v6. Hey, I'm used to a mini-van. It will probably grunt a little towing the popup camper, but not too bad. Price about $33k (MSRP)or 29.8k (invoice)on LS model but big discounts again. (~$4500?)
Biggest thing on Trailblazer is that it advertises 58 inch rear hip room, but the seat is only 53 inches wide.
The Pilot is nice but I might save about $5k by going with the trailblazer. (LS model)
--Jay
2003 TrailBlazers, Envoys and Bravadas with the 4.2L
L6 engine, with the stabilizer shaft running through the frame.
On earlier models, the stabilizer is mounted to the front of the frame.
It appears some '03s with the 4.2 got changed.
Anyway, that's something to look at if anyone plans to buy a suspension kit. The rear bar and bushings should fit fine but the front might be different.
2% is excessive for GM. An advertising fee should only apply if the dealer is in a regional advertising dealer group or co-op. A legitimate ad fee is itemized by the factory and will appear on the printout of the factory invoice. If the dealer himself has added his own "advertising fee" it is not legitimate; any local advertising an independent dealer does is just his cost of doing business. Ask to see the actual factory printout, and look down near the bottom. It may not say "advertising fee", but may have some other code words such as "dealer co-op advertising" or similar. The general rule of thumb is not to pay more than 1% for the legit advertising fee. The ad fee on my 2002 Envoy was $295. My dealer was in a co-op of North Texas GMC dealers that advertises on local TV and newspapers. The 2% that your dealer says he adds is excessive; I think GM ad fee is pretty standard at about 1%. I suspect your dealer is padding it with an extra 1%. I wouldn't pay more than 1% and ONLY if its shown as a legit fee on the factory invoice. In a metropolitan area where there are several dealers, the legit 1% ad fee is common. If your dealer is an independent one in a small town, any "ad fee" at all should raise your eyebrows. Keep in mind that the ad fee can be negotiable, but it might make the dealer less likely to negotiate other items, since both he and you are ultimately most interested in the total final cost.
With all seats up:
Outback: 34.3 cuft
Envoy: 39.8 cuft
EnvoyXL: 23.4 cuft (includes 3rd row being up)
BMW X5: 16.1 cuft
With all seats down:
Outback: 69cuft
Envoy: 80 cuft
EnvoyXL: 107 cuft
BMW X5: 54 cuft
The problem with most midsized SUVs out there is they don't have much storage space. The only reason I drive an SUV is to transport large things or lots of gear. I don't do it because I like to spend more $$ on gas!!
I don't have the numbers, but from memory the Outback was longer by about 2", the trailblazer/Envoy was wider by 1" or so and taller by about 2". So they will fit a similar sized box.
When I calculated cubic ft. is was about 35 for the trailblazer/Envoy and 33~34 for the Outback.
Don't believe the GM numbers. measure your back seat is there 58" of room? The seat I measued was 53.5" on the Trailblazer and my Outback seat is 51.5".
I was suprised too! However still interested in the TrailBlazer/Envoy. Brings back memories of the 91 Jimmy I had (182k miles when I sold it).
--jay
Yeah, but the Outback tapers in at the back and sides, cutting off cargo volume.
If you don't have any issues, welcome to the club.
But remember, they may say that if it's not broken they're not going to fix it.
Frank
Thanks,
Todd
For Steve--Host thanks for sticking with me--More bucks in my pocket now, but what lies in the future may be scary!
For the TB fan--the fans comes off--left to loosen and right to tighten--with a bigggggggg wrench!, must remove the shroud and upper rad hose--the rest is pretty straight forward and reverse to put together. At about $100/hour for the dealer--it's worth the wrenching.
Thanks again folks and have a great night!
Still have yet to change my own oil, thinking of switching to Mobil 1, need a good idea for ramps, and cleanup. Any suggestions?
6200 - minus 800 for people/cargo = 5400
5400 vs 4500 isn't much for most people. In your case yes the trailblazer with a frame is better than a unibody honda. For people like me towing a 2100lb popup camper there isn't going to be much of a difference.
For the EXT trailbalzer default towing is 5800lbs? minus of people and cargo and its closer yet to the Pilot. Add the v8 and different gear and the EXT tows a lot more... Just proves you can make numbers do anything you want.
Last night we looked at a EXT trailblazer. It doesn't fit three booster/car seats across the second row of seats.
--jay
"Towing requires installation of power steering fluid- and automatic tranmission fluid-cooler, both available exclusively from your Honda dealer. Premium unleaded fuel increases engine torque and is recommended when towing above 3500 lbs. Maximum towing capacity is 4500 lbs. for boat trailers and 3500 lbs. for all other trailers. Premium unleaded fuel is recommended when towing above 3500 lbs. Refer to the Owner's Manual for additional towing information."
Looks like 3500lb max if you don't tow a boat. tim
The towing the boat this is funny. What difference is there? somebody on the Pilot discussion said its because a boat is more aerodynamic... sure... whatever. Honda has been quieter about that 4500 vs 3500 thing... Maybe I can put a floatation device on my camper so I can have more towing capacity with the Honda?
enough on this lets move on....
I think you got the idea I was saying the Fords are better. I was just saying I didn't know. I've always owned GM's. Over the years, the GM vehicles seemed to last longer due to superior engines and trannys. And I was once advised to by AAMCO mechanic that if I wanted to spend a lot of time in transmission shops reading old magazines to by an "Exploder".
I do not need a jack to change the oil on my Envoy. I weigh 190 lbs though so those with a bigger waistline may need more room. I unbolt the whole plastic panel (not just the access panel) to drain the oil. Takes 2 minutes and makes the job easier.
GAM
Preventing detonation is directly related to the torque curve. Premium could help. It would allow more timing advance without knocking, increasing low end torque. With lower octane, it would detect knocking and then back off the timing.
This is only true if the vehicle is designed this way. Honda tends to design for premium and then just back off timing if regular gas is used.
re tb4me
Yep I'll have to upgrade the floor jack, mine is too small, ok for my Nissan, but little skimpy for my TB. I don't like going under vehicles with just a jack!!!
I decided to change the Bravada's filter. The bad news is that replacements aren't available in the Walmart's or Checker Auto's in my area. Got a NAPA Gold for $21, pricey!
My wife ran an errand right after I changed the filter and came back asking what I did to get the quick acceleration back. The filter. BTW, that was with only 6K miles on the Bravada. I live in Metro Denver so oxygen is a bit more scarce and they sand the roads in winter.
pepper50, I recommend you change the filter. Too bad they don't have them for $10 at Walmart.
Agreed about the TB, but I was referring to the Honda Pilot and its recommendation for premium fuel for towing.
You sure that it's not related to the recent temperature decrease around here? I notice a little more power in the cooler air. Also, the AC is off.
Bilstien is soon to release there aftermarket version which demonstrates a firmer ride, more control, less lean, without the sloppiness or hardness in the ride. They are normally completive priced right at $60 to $80 each and with all Bilstien Shocks carry a Lifetime Replacement Warranty. They will be worth the wait! By the way, the aftermarket Bilstiens are rebuild-able in case you still want them firmer or wish to soften the “boom” in a ride. The factory OEM’s are not rebuild-able. Krupp Bilstein (corporate) has outfitted three of my vehicles in past years. I plan to outfit my new Envoy XL with Bistiens as well.
The Edmunds Maintenance Guide will tell you what we think those 15,000 mile services should cost.
Steve, Host
I finally opened up the air filter box after almost 12,000 miles. My wife drives the truck locally most of the time - I would say we do 80% local vs 20% highway with the truck. However, the local driving is not "dusty" in my opinion. The bottom half of the filter was black and very dirty. Rather than just flip it over, I too went with the Napa gold filter for $21, as it was the only one I could find other than at the dealer. I did like how you have to take the cross member off to get at the filter.
By the way, I don't think we'll ever see these filters at Wal Mart for $10. I also have a '00 Tahoe Z71 that takes the barrel style filters as well, albeit a little larger for the 5.7L V8. The Fram price at my Wal Mart is $17.
In other news, the truck seems to have settled down a little in problems, after a little over a year. I did have another set of suspension links put in the front end to cure the "bumping" noise when driving on rough roads. That makes two sets in 12,000 miles. Come on General, fix it right for once.
But today I noticed the A/C is occasionally blowing outside-temperature air again, even with the auto climate control set at 60. Funny thing, we just got back a few days ago from another 650-mile road trip. Coincidence?
Out of curiosity I phoned 3 GMC dealers and 1 Chevy dealer in this area and got quotes of $25, $27, $29, and $32 for the filter (the Chevy quote was $27). So it pays to phone around if needing a dealer part, but the NAPA is obviously better deal anyway at $21.
For those considering a Murano vs Envoy I think they are very different vehicles. Since we have always drove GM vehicles, it was a little hard for me to get used to the CVT in the Murano. I still had not figured out all the buttons when it was wrecked. It took me a month to get the seat adjusted to where I was comfortable. It was a very smooth ride but always felt like the car was going to move forward just a little when you stopped. That is covered in the Murano problems discussion here at Edmunds. I got in the Envoy and felt right at home. As mentioned here in Edmunds, the interior could be a little better put together for a car that cost that much.
My point was that the Bravada responded to a fresh air filter just like my former '91 S-10 Blazer. A noticeable improvement in performance.
The sensitivity to the air filter might be due to the altitude here or the dusty roads in winter and spring, but oddly, my other vehicles of this vintage didn't/don't respond to air filter changes. They included a '91 Geo Metro (don't ask) and a '99 Chrysler 300M. The Chrysler responds to engine cleaning chemicals, but replacing a really dirty filter makes little change in performance. Go figure.
Too bad I won't be changing air filters as often with the Bravada due to the filter price.
Filter change interval guides are just that, guides. One needs to evaluate for one's self and see what works for you and your vehicle. GM's pressure drop indicator, if you have one, can also be helpful, but remember it is a crude gauge at best. The guides and gauges are really geared to ensure the filter gets changed before it puts the engine at risk. Sort of like the oil change indicator in the DIC. They aren't necessarily geared to ensuring optimum performance and engine life from the vehicle.
Redline65: Same thing happened to us - A/C started blowing warm air after a 2 day roadtrip. Low-side cycling switch was replaced and has worked fine since. But we haven't done any long (over 2 hour) road trips.
Sounds like that switch doesn't tolerate extended use.
I took it to the dealership this morning and the tech said they have been seeing a lot of these low-pressure switches going bad. I'll post their fix later.
I suppose by making the ride so soft GM is trying to give customers what they want. To me, the squishy suspension negatively affects handling and control and gets to the point of being a safety issue.
They will retain the smooth ride at all speed levels.
You are correct, shocks are not the proper cure for sway and yaw issues. As we do on my race car, the first fix for the suspension is to install correct spring rates, then proper sized sway bars and finally shocks to attenuate the frequencies. Doing the larger sway bars and harder bushings should be done BEFORE adding shocks with increased damping in jounce and rebound. Some people will suggest gas filled shocks increase effective wheel rate but this is not really accurate and at best, a bandaid for bigger suspension problems.
A shocks job is to control spring oscillation.