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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    Figured it was about time to reiterate my satisfaction with my TrailBlazer. '02, LS-2WD with 1SC package that gives you most of the options, manual temperature HVAC controls, and NO PROBLEMS. Owned since Jan '02 and have had it in the service dep't ONCE for a 30 minute fuel filter clip recall. A satisfied owner. Yes I would like to get the console rear DC outlet cover changed, and might go for the quieter rear springs someday (still have 2 years of warranty left) , but all vehicles and products in general go through continuous improvments during their life cycles. I expected a few changes from the "first-gen" triplets and was going to wait 'til '03 or '04 but the incentives and pricing got me to buy sooner. I am very happy with my decision and purchase.
  • malibu99malibu99 Posts: 305
    Mine stopped working about a month ago. When it was pressed the wiper didn't even start but it worked fine in all other settings. The problem was a bad switch. Hope that helps a bit.
  • Front Bumper/Fascia gap: All models still had this "feature", including the new Isuszu Asccender except for the new Buick version. The Buick was on a turntable and couldn't be accessed to look at the interior.

    All (3 or 4) of the TBs had the front fascia "warp" to some extent.

    They had an XUV version of the Envoy but the roof and gate weren't working, so they couldn't demo it. The explanation was that it was a preproduction model.

    They had just one Bravada, and it had a hideous interior color scheme of all black dash area with tan remainder of the interior.

    Unrelated, but I've got to get one of the new Z's!
  • zapcatzapcat Posts: 64
    My dealer called and said 0% is now for 60 months on Trailblazer, Tahoe, and Suburbans. Yee-Haaw!
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    I understand your leasing situation but mine is much different. I put money down on a lease in order to bring down the capitalized cost in order to keep from paying interest on that money during the lease.

    You stated that the "list" was $32k on your Mitsu but you did not state how much the negotiated purchase price was on the car. That is very important because monthly payments have nothing to do with the list price. They are basically the difference between the capitalized cost (Your purchase price minus any money/rebate you put down) and the residual cost plus interest on that amount.

    I save my money (and get GM and Citibank Drivers Advantage rebates) during my lease terms in order to reduce the cap cost on my next lease. I'd rather save that interest than pay it to the lease company.

    Regarding selling it to the dealer on turn in, if you negotiate your lease properly this should never be a good option. The best lease has the smallest cap cost (price you agreed to purchase the car for) and the highest residual value (value of the vehicle at lease end). I hope you are not thinking of doing that with your Triplet. I purchased my Bravada in May of 2001 when things were better and I negotiated a very high residual. Now the residuals (and values) are much lower. So much lower, in fact, that the "Trade-In" value now (with 1.5 years to go in the lease) is only $3,200.00 more than the residual value I negotiated in the lease. I suspect that the "Trade-In" value at the actual end of my lease will be several thousand dollars less than the residual value I negotiated. As far as getting back the sales tax, I'm not sure how that would work as you are paying for the use of the vehicle. I suspect the dealer is giving you this credit as a way to make sale and either eating it or padding it into the deal somehow.

    Good luck with your Mitsu.
  • I echo TBLAZED's satisfaction. Mine (build date 05/02) has everything on it: Bose, ECAS, sunroof, running boards, engine block heater blah blah blah and I can't say enough about the ride I'm getting. Mind you my reference point was a 1995 Ford Explorer. Got back from the inlaws this weekend and averaged 24 mpg at 70 mph (honestly). In mixed driving I get 20 (mostly highway-ish) which I have monitored since the beginning and it is routinely 20-ish. I've used this board to do the "Lauro" CAI and switched to Mobil 1 but that has been it. Regards.
  • Still happy here too with my Envoy. 14K miles, build date 06/01, 1SH package with Bose and ECAS, 2WD, 4.10 axle. I'm up to 19 mpg (23 mpg highway @ 75+), excellent power and ride. I came from a '93 Ford Exploder, and wow what a huge difference.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Posts: 1,538
    What is this warp or gap problem?

  • zapcatzapcat Posts: 64
    What rear axle ratio do you have? 3.42, 3.73...

    Do you have 4WD?

    thanks in advance.
  • Why does a 2WD triplet get better gas mileage than a 4WD version?

    Is is just because the 4WD version is heavier or is there an extra drivetrain power loss from a 4WD even in 2Hi mode.
  • I've had my 02 Bravada since spring and today a first-time rider showed me how to turn on the individual reading lights (I'd always used the "dome light" switch when someone needed light inside). Oh well, live and learn (and the switches are pretty well disguised).
  • zonkzonk Posts: 208
    Tried to confirm zapcat's info about the 60 month 0% int rate by going to the chevrolet site. Can't get on there -hmmmmm. Tidester -can you confirm?
  • Try It's listed there as the "Holiday Event" Enhancement.
  • yatesdyatesd Posts: 60
    On the rear washer issue, fill up your tank and try again before taking to the dealer.

    I had a 94 S-Blazer and it was my first vehicle with a rear wiper. It had a feature that would let you know when the fluid was becoming low. The rear wiper would always go dry first. It may be a way of prioritizing for safety purposes.

    This is a forum about the Triplets or people that are actually thinking of getting one. People that know they don't want one should go to the whiner forum!

    By the way, who would want a Jeep Liberty. It's smaller, less powerful, gets worse gas mileage, and Chrysler is known for reliability issues.

  • tlaurotlauro Posts: 504
    not sure where the thread started, but to chime in on what I've seen, it seems there is someone conducting the transfer of a lease. so long as it's run through the correct channels there should be no issue. the buyer or new Leasee will be on the contract and the old Leasee will be onto better things. any GM ealer can complete the transaction.

    Regarding money down...I totally recommend NOT putting anything down. The idea of leasing is to reduce captial expenditures and to maintain all the money your account. The added interest paid is very minimal over the course of the lease. The various risks involved while you are leasing the car just aren't worth the savings. Worst case, you can be left in a situation where that money is gone forever and you're in need of a new vehicle. All that before your lease is completed. Not a pretty place to be in.

    Again, no money down, pay the higher payment and draw from the money you would normally put down. Chances are if the lease is a "good one" you won't complete it anyway. If the payments are still too high, then you're on the wrong car.

    Another comment was made that list price is not related to monthly payment. Actually it is. List price is where the residual is derived from, thus a higher list, higher residual but also a higher payment. Contrary to what many believe, an inflated or high residually incentivised lease is NOT the best bet for most. Monthly payments are lower, but the options and flexibilities that are the benefits of leasing are then limited. Best off getting a "balanced lease residual & rate"

    Regarding lease end..turning in the vehicle is not the goal. That's a protection and limits risk, but ideally, you want to retail or sell the vehicle to another person prior to or at the same time you lease or buy your next vehicle. Most dealers will perform a "courtesy delivery" for a nominal fee of $100-$300.

    Next case would be to trade in the vehicle to a dealer. Both of these options should be done if there is equity to be had. It's all negotitable too. Contrary to many who believe otherwise, you can have equity on a lease. typically 6mos prior to the end of the lease is when you should start working on the numbers and plan for the next car. I've never leased for longer than 30 months with nothing but ink and a handshake down and have all but once sold the cars on my own. $3,800 profit is the most made. Only turned in one and that was on a Camery back in 1997....Famous Toyota $200mo. Lease Deal. That's another story.

    Regarding in Ohio and many states, the state gov't is getting smart and changing leasing laws to their favor as in reality, consumers were making out. They are requiring all taxes be paid up front. You can roll them into the lease and finance them or pay them up front. IMO, I'd roll them in as again, no money up front is the key. You're not going to get it back from the state if you don't complete the contract, which is a bummer, but then, that's a state thing. Laws very by state, but again, I don't believe any state will refund the difference.

    Enjoy the new vehicle..whoever started the thread! Hope I helped somewhat.

    former dealer
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    As a former Dealer Kid I understand your points on leasing although I disagree. Your points come from the "Get a person in the car for the least amount of money" goal, while mine, as a consumer, is to get the best deal for my needs.

    One point you made about List Price/Monthly Payment is wrong as it relates to what were were talking about. In reality, if you have two leases for the same exact terms AND you paid List Price (which I hope no one would do) then yes, it counts. However, on those same cars the residual always remains the same so the List Price makes no difference. What makes the difference in the monthly payments is the Capitalized Cost which is the amount agreed on the vehicle (preferrably somewhere just North of the invoice price) minus any cap cost reduction.

    In my case I lease for the following reasons:

    Tax write off as I lease it through my company
    I NEVER keep a car that I lease.
    I HATE trying to sell/trade in a car.
    I want to pay the least amount of interest possible.

    In reality, I should probably purchase my vehicles outright but I can't stand the process of trading in/selling.

    To each his own but I use the website where you put in your lease terms and it grades it and I always get a very good deal on my leases.
  • Is it just me, or is it there are far less problems with the 03 triplets. The majority of the problems voiced by owners on this forum are related to 02 triplets. Encouraging news. I own a 02 Bravada and have had my share of problems, but I will say, these are outstanding vehicles, IMHO.

    Regarding the new TNF, has anyone seen any of these on the road? I really like the uniqueness of this setup. All comments are welcome.
  • tlaurotlauro Posts: 504
    No, my points have nothing to do with getting a person in a car as the goal. They are simply the financial perspectives of leasing as it relates to any consumer. I was a priciple owner in three GM franchises that my family was involved in but have since left the industry and have no financial benefits to gain from this.

    Nothing in my post or advice does the opposite of your goal which is to get the best deal. I simply pointed out many of the overlooked facts on leasing and those facts are mostly safety nets. Please point out any specifics in question as I'd be happy to go into more detail.

    "As a former Dealer Kid I understand your points on leasing although I disagree. Your points come from the "Get a person in the car for the least amount of money" goal, while mine, as a consumer, is to get the best deal for my needs."

    Regarding my comments on residual value....they were there to clarify the matter for other vs just directly responding to a specific post. Residual value is a % of list price. It's directly related to the payment regardless of what you pay for the vehicle. That value is set by the lending institution for each specific make, model and trim level. It will very from lender to lender. Yes, the purchase price also affects the payment too. That's a given, as is any variable within a lease comparison between two leases that only have one variable different.

    Your reasons for leasing are valid ones and while they may not apply to everyone, nothing ever does. That's normal. You may wish to look into putting together or working with a simple excel spreadsheet for leasing. I have several from the simple calcs. to ones that general full contracts. I also understand your dislike for the whole process, but to maximize your benefits or to ideally get the best deal, you should look into alternatives to just turning the vehicle in at the end. It's always there to do should you choose to do that.

  • I have a 3.42 ratio 2wd and I should tell you that I drive this thing like a wuss because I want to see how good I can get the mileage. Anyway, I'm off to see the bodyshop as a State vehicle drove into the front end of mine yesterday (hit the bumper and grill). Any heads up on those issues would be appreciated. Regards, Les Akins
  • blrmkrblrmkr Posts: 40
    I agree with calucyk, I've had more than my fair share of problems, but now that everything seems to be fixed, my '02 TBLT is everything I'd hoped that it would be. It's not too big or too small, has capable A4WD for winter driving, can tow more than I'll ever need to tow, has a good highway feel, has not developed any permanent squeaks or rattles, and has given me 19.7 MPG (3.42) over 38,000 miles of driving so far.

    No, I haven't seen any TNF TBs in the Detroit area. I've been watching for them.
  • boat10boat10 Posts: 59
    I've read all 9000+ posts on this (forum)? and am beginning to wonder what it has turned into! I've had my '02 TB-LT since 6/01 with build date of 5/01; the only problem I've had with mine is the PCM reprogram and seat belt issue on the passenger side. Mine has all the options that can be had on a LT...and folks, let me tell you I have had NO PROBLEMS. My vehicle will get 18.5 to 26 MPG day in-day out. My commute is 16.6 miles one way on country back roads (55-60MPH), I have just gotten back from a 1400 mile trip and averaged better than 22 miles MPG running speeds up to 80 MPH on the Interstates....I now have 17777 miles on it. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth.
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    Are you sure someone isn't putting in an extra gallon or two between your fillups? 26 mpg is a stretch even if your are coasting downhill for the whole trip. Your 16.6 mile commute must be nonstop under absolutely ideal conditions. Here in Chicago, with our gas being 10% ethanol and winter gas having even more additives, I am lucky to get 15mpg on average. Our regular gas is about $1.50/gal now. How does that compare with yours? I can't complain about my TB LTZ and I accept the mileage I get, but 26 mpg?

  • Hello everyone

    I really need help with the front passenger seat belt. After the last use, the belt retracted OK but now it refuses to extend. Is this a common problem? will it require a trip to the dealer. We have a 2002 TB LS with 25K on the odometer.

    Thanks for any help.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    You can always delete any of your posts, empty or otherwise.

    tidester, host
  • I'm surprised to hear that you have not seen a single NF TB around Detroit. Could it be that Chevy has not begun to build these vehicles? I spoke to a dealership here in the metroplex (Dallas) and they seem to think that Chevy will not sell many of these vehicles due to the price. I see that as a good thing, as there will be less NF TB's on the street. Check out the Chevrolet web site for more information.
  • Please don't fall prey to such marketing gimmicks. So it's a different color and comes with a blanket and 2 duffel bags, all for only 2 grand more.
    No, wait a minute. They're 2 Base Camp duffel bags and a Nuptse blanket. Whatever the hell Nuptse means, I don't think it's worth $2000.

    As you may have deduced, I'm against all these Eddie Bauer, L.L. Bean, etc. editions of things. What next, the Lexus ES300 Armani edition?
  • 2002slt2002slt Posts: 228

    You need to get out of the city. I just paid $1.32 at a BP/Amoco in the Schaumburg area. That's not even counting the 6% off for using their credit card.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    Time to pick everyone's brain. Is there a way to adjust the height on the ECAS rear suspension? My lights don't seem to be as good as they used to be, as they don't illuminate as far down the road. I think the rear end of my Envoy (with ECAS) seems to sit a little higher than it used to. If the back end sits higher, that could lower the aim of the headlights. Last night I experimented and found I could leave my brights on with no one flashing me for having them on. That seems to indicate the aim is too low. The dims are no longer adequate at speed. When I first bought the car a year and a half ago, the lights were definitely higher than they are now. If the ECAS height does not adjust, then I will raise the aim on the lights. Any comments are appreciated. On a related light note, I get the occasional headlight flickering that has been mentioned. It only lasts a split second and the lights do not go off, they just seem to flicker for an instant. This has happened since the car was new. It does not bother me at all.
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    2002slt: My dentist is in Schaumburg. Because of that, I associate Schaumburg with pain. I actually by gas in Niles or Park Ridge, a little savings, but not $1.32. I do like the sound of 6% off using a BP card. Is the 6% given as a discount at the pump or is it a rebate of some sort? Have you figured out if it beats a mileage card with one of the soon to be bankrupted airlines?
    By the way, in keeping with the informal requests to keep this medium as a car talk chat forum, I do drive my TB LTZ to Schaumburg.

  • 2002slt2002slt Posts: 228
    The 6% is taken off of the bill, not at the pump.

    Just in case anyone is interested...My Envoy gets between 12 and 20 miles per gallon. 12 when I drive my 5 miles to work and back. 20 when I drive on the highway at 65mph. I didn't buy my Envoy because it was fuel efficient. I bought it because it could tow my boat and handle the Chicago winters.

    I've said it many times...This is the best vehicle I've ever owned. 11,000 miles and still loving it!!!
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