Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

jim4444

AWD should be best for snow.....you have traction to all the wheels 100% of the time.

jack51pine

Anyone know for sure when the 3rd seat versions will be available? The GMC dealer said
he thought they would be available late summer or early fall. I've read they won't be available
until next spring.

scottnsc

My local dealer has 1 Envoy. It is a real looker, and the interior is beautiful. Very well done, GMC.

Haven't seen the Bravada or Trailblazer yet though.

I made 7 calls to GM and nobody can give me details on the lease program or an estimated payment. Surely, someone in this country has leased this vehicle through GMAC?

As far as price, my local dealer has an Envoy, but he does not have a price for it, so he is useless.

However, I am working with an dealer about 100 miles away (near Asheville, NC) that sells it's vehicles for $98 over factory invoice all the time - even special orders. Try www.98over.com . They have been very friendly and helpful so far, and you don't have to play those 'what's my price' games. Their price for a loaded (2 WD, no sunroof) Envoy SLT is approximately $30,400 (window sticker is $33K+).

I hope this helps.

lyndellw

Just wondering where the Envoy is built. I know that the Bravada is built in Ohio. Not sure on the Envoy. Thanks.

fsmasek

The 2002 vehicles are finally arriving in CA. I have driven the Bravada (Irvine Olds-GMC has several Bravadas and Envoys, and Corona Chevy Olds has a Bravada) and am very impressed with it. The seats are comfortable and the seating position is excellent. The large tires and wheels are a real plus compared to other SUVs. I like it far better than the GMC Denali, which is 800 lbs heavier and $8,000 more. I would buy the Bravada if the Denali was the same price. The GMC Envoy is not as nice on the outside (the large side moldings with the ENVOY lettering, the rear bumper and lights, and the entire front end are not pleasing to me), but the inside is nice and better than in the photos. The aluminum around the round vents is actually nice, but the aluminum around the gauges is a distraction. I want to see Sandalwood color before I place my order. I saw a 2002 Ford Explorer and a 2002 Mercury mountaineer today and they seem more cramped inside from the driver's seat. My knee hits the sharp edge on the arm rest on the door. The Explorer 2nd row seat splits into three parts, but the two outer parts are very narrow with the center portion folded down. They only had the V6 versions, and I did not bother to drive them. The Olds and GMC are nicer in every way except for the independent rear suspension. I want to drive a Bradava longer, so may wait until I can rent one. My one concern is that it bounced on the expansion joints in the concrete freeway, and concrete freeways are very common in California. Has anyone else experienced this?

david3637

Checked out the Envoy and 2002 Explorer yesterday. Here's what I came away with for each vehicle

Powertrain: While the Envoy's engine had good power, it did not feel like
270hp more like 240. It was very smooth though. The tranny did not shift as seemlessly as I whould have thought The Explorer's V6 did a good job of moving it out, and the 5-speed auto shifted very smoothly. I would opt for the V8 though.

Suspension: The Envoy showed little body roll and the ride was firm but compliant. The Ford was much smoother and controled The independent rear susp. has done wonders

Interior: The Envoy's dash was atractive, liked the crome accents, but the fake wood looked, well, fake the interior felt more cramped than the Ford though. The Bose stereo sounded great but you can only get it on the SLT model The only ergonomic flaw saw was the switch for the 4 wheel drive. Its low on the dash and a little had to manipulate. The Ford's dash, while not as flashy was very clean looking. The ergnomics are perfect. I was concerned the gear shift would get in the way of the radio but it didn't The materials seemed to be of a higher quality also. The Explorer also has more cargo space than the Envoy

Styling: While both are atractive, the Envoy wins hands down here.

My pick? Have to go with the Explorer for more room?cargo, better ergonomics, opt V8 (I tow) and options like the infra-red reverse sensing system, (every SUV should have this) and the AdvanceTrac traction/stability system

jgmilberg

My GMC dealer said that the EXT version will not be out until next model year 2003. He also said the 3rd row seat may be out this fall/winter, but probably not untill 2003. He also said to expect it to be very cramped back there and you will loose most of your rear cargo area. The seat will only allow for one row of grocery bags, if that, and forget about a thick suitcase. I hope it will at least fold down, or if they get really brave, have the whole seat drop into the floor, like a couple of imports I have seen. He also said that the EXT version will have the same 3rd row seat position but the rear cargo area will be the same as the 2 row seating that is currently in production. 3rd row seat is only good for kids, no adults due to the floor to seat level, and they say that's only good to 5-6 years old. I have not stopped to pick the brain of the Chevy dealer near me, but have seen as many as 10 on the lot at once. My GMC dealer has had a steady stream of them coming in for about 3-4 weeks now.

I live in the Detroit metro area in Michigan if it helps any of you. If you live in the area and want to check out a GMC Envoy, call Jody Smith at 1-734-282-1010, at Southgate Pontiac/GMC, he sold me my Yukon XL, and tell him John M. with the Indigo Blue 3/4 ton Yukon XL sent you. Very good salesman!

gasman1

I had nearly the same impression as David in #164 (above) when I compared the 2002 Envoy and the 2002 Explorer. My mind was almost made up before going to the dealerships...I wanted the Envoy to win. All of the information that I had gathered and my GM Card Rebate had me going for the Envoy. However, my first disappointment was that the engine didn't have the power that I expected and it was loud!

The front passenger and rear seating is uncomfortable (to narrow in the footwell areas). The A-pillars create a huge blind-spot and the wind noise coming from them is the worst of any vehicle that I can recall. I did think that the driver seat was very comfortable and the controls are logical.

The Explorer is still missing several items that I could get on the Envoy (for less money). However, it's a pleasure to ride and drive. It's rear hatch, seating areas, and under floor storage is far superior to the Envoy.

I guess that I'll just keep my GM Card rebate for a few more years. I'll also order a 2002 Explorer when the V-8 and stability control is available. I hope that both vehicles do well, but the Envoy has to much against it for me to purchase.

chevytruck_fan

suprised to here you think it is so loud and slow, all the reviews I have read have been great. Did you try a trailblazer? these vehicles are actually differnt between them, you might want to give it a try, the olds bravad might have more insulation too.

bkjohnson

The dealer near me (Apply Chevy in Midlothian, Illinois) has approximately 27 Trailblazers ranging in price from $35 to $33. My husband is very impressed with them, however, I think the price is rather high. For $35, I could get a Tahoe. I just don't know that they're worth the price. Any opinions?

I will admit, they are sharp!

dindak

Those must all be loaded Trailblazers because they start at around $25K. Tahoes are nice, but they are definitely FULL size. ;-)

roderacer

...How is your new Trailblazer? I went to Bill Kay and they have 50 or so. Checked out a beautiful black one. Loaded for 35K

Steve aka roderacer

roderacer

I went to a Chevy and GMC dealer this weekend. The Trailblazer LT's were around 33-35K for the trim level I want ( Bose, leather, running boards,etc.) The Envoy SLT was about a grand more. So a fully loaded, top-o-the-line Envoy is not much more than a mid-level Trailblazer?! Does that sound right. The Envoy was chaulked full goodies including the air-ride suspension.

I was under the assumption that GMC models were generally more expensive than the Chevy counterparts....

What's the deal??

RR

dindak

Once you get to the fully loaded models, the price difference is basically zero. Even the Bravada is with in a grand of a fully loaded Envoy.

b4z

GM's pricing structure makes no sense whatsoever.
They are losing market share on a daily basis, but continue to puts prices on vehicles like they had a monopoly. It is greed pure and simple. They have priced these new vehicles the same as an acura MDX. I don't think there is a person on this board that thinks these SUV's have the quality of materials that acura uses.
This is one in just a long line of lost opportunities for the general.

dindak

These are MSRPs, not what you pay. GM discounts more than Acura, that's fact. Besides, the Acura isn't a real SUV. It's a car dressed up like an SUV. Quality of the materials in the Bravada is VERY good.

roderacer

...how would you compare the quality of the TB and Envoy to the Bravada? Everything from the hood latch to the climate comtrol knobs....

drivr42

I haven't driven the Exp yet, but I did have a chance to drive the Envoy. It is much smoother than my '96 Exp and has more room in the interior. But I agree with others that it lacked real power and I did experience some bounce on the freeway. The thing that got me was that when you fold down the rear seats you cannot get the drivers seat back far enough to be comfortable, this is a must because I work from my car and have to carry a full load often. If GM had put the 35 portion of the folding rear seat behind the drivers seat (Like the Exp) you could work around the problem. I think it is great looking and really wanted it to be the right car but I am waiting to drove the 2001 Exp.

kbdriver

I recently tested out the Trailblazer. Comments seem to be right on. The vehicles is simply beautiful, but the engine does not feel like 270HP. It feels and sounds like a Honda Accord. My 2000 LS Blazer @ 190 HP feels more powerful than the Trailblazer. Trailblazer has a nice ride, but the engine feels as if it's straining during acceleration. The ride is very smooth above 40MPH, but I can't see buying this vehicle until improvments are made to the engine. And I am a GM Man.

Would be nice to have a center armrest in the rear and some cupholders, as in the Blazer.

dindak

roderacer : The models I saw were all pre-production (and GM posted stickers on the dashes saying so), so quality may not have been 100%. That being said I didn't see any glaring problems. Quality of materials was not the best, but definitely very good and a huge improvement from the old models. I have not seen any of these trucks available for sale in southern Ontario yet.

kbdriver : I think the reason you feel the difference with the engine is because it's an I-6, not a V-6. Less off the line grunt, much like the DOHC engines.

kjwood

Test drove a TrailBlazer this wekend and loved it. Dealer told me that the Bose sound system would not be available in the first production run of vehicles. Has anyone else heard this?

roderacer

The dealers here in No. IL have plenty of TB LT's WITH the Bose systems... I don't know where some of these dealers get their info from...

jbossert

Roderacer - I love my new Trailblazer. I opted for the Pewter, since my wife has a black car and I am sick of washing it!! In response to a few other postings, here are my two cents. My Trailblazer is not loud. In fact, it is quite quiet. My wife's 2000 Lexus GS300 is just a tinge quieter than my Trailblazer. The person that complained about noise must have left the rear window down!!! I experience no bounce on the freeway. I suspect that the air suspension is causing this. With regard to power, I agree that the first 1/3 of pedal is a little weak (compared to my 98 Tahoe). However, I've found that if you give it a little more pedal, the motor exhibits LOTS more grunt. I think it is more of a linkage thing than a motor thing. Finally, the salesman that stated that the Bose system was not available was full of crap. My LT has the Bose system in it and I am very happy with it. I am somewhat particular on the sound systems in my car and this new Bose rocks. I have had Bose "Gold" systems in my past two Corvettes and they both sucked really bad.

drew_

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dwsiis

I drove a new Bravado this afternoon. I have been waiting to get one of these new sub's for my wife. The seating was comfortable. I didn't think the ride was bad... my 2001 Tahoes soaked up the bumps better, but it wasn't bad. The engine was a real disappointment, it felt pokey and rough after the Tahoes, the transmission wasn't as smooth either. The steering was heavier than the Tahoe...odd that the Tahoes feels like a smaller vehicle when parking. The biggest disappointment was the LOUD,LOUD wind and road noise over 45 mph. Defining. I got a headache after only 5 minutes and couldn't get the thing back to the dealer fast enough. I have NEVER heard road and wind noise that loud in ANY vehicle I have ever driven... the Tahoes is quitter with the windows open. It is even louder than the Ford Escapes, which I had previously thought was loudest. I drove over standing water and had to look as I thought water was splashing inside it was so loud. I despirately want one of these but after 1 drive I'll wait a year or two until GM gets their quality issues in order. The Tahoe has been out for awhile and it shows...no comparison when the vehicles are so closely priced.

jbossert

dwsiis - That has GOT to be the most dramatic posting that I have ever read!! The "headache" and "water splashing" really take the cake. I can only guess that the build quality of the Olds is not up to par. I test drove (3) Trailblazers and (1) Envoy before buying my Trailblazer and none of the vehicles exhibited these problems. Oh well, maybe Olds workers are a little disgruntled, seeing that their product AND their jobs are being eliminated. I can personally vouch for the Tahoe if you are willing to pay the extra coin. I priced several Tahoes and a similarly equipped Tahoe will sticker for 7K more than the Trailblazer. Checkout www.gmbuypower.com to confirm.

jimxo

I just read a report in the April CarandDriver. It claims that the Bravada can reach 60 MPH in 7.9 seconds. I wondering if the new design engine I6 is this quick but the driver gets the impression that he is not moving this fast. With 270 HP it has to have a respectable track time. What do you think?

lbthedog

I've got to wonder if those who are stating the vehicle "has a lack of power" know about an attribute of the new six. There is no throttle cable on these vehicles. Like the C-5 Corvette, the throttle is "fly by wire". There is no direct mechanical connection between the pedal and the throttle. And like the C-5, it is a "learning" system. The system learns the "curve" so to speak. Unlike cable systems that have different levels of resistance depending upon amount of application, this throttle is quite linear since all you are doing is "winding a clock spring". This is actually less complex than a cable based system. There is no cruise control cable or idle air control. There are fewer parts and one less hole in the front bulkhead (aka firewall). But the feel through the pedal is definitely "different". Now I cannot say this is the only possible reason for the concern. The exhaust cam "phaser" has a learning mode also. And so do the spark controls. This motor is running ten to one one compression and can do it on regular fuel. This motor makes a lot of sense. One convertor, coil per plug ignition, long intervals between oil changes, relatively small footprint (compared to a Ford V-8) and a proven transmission behind it. The vehicle is more than competitive for it's category. GM's presence in this market was nonexistent before these. Now it's one of the "big dogs".

drew_

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dwsiis

your statement that the Tahoes are 7 k more expensive is not accurate. I own a 2001 Tahoe and with the current incentives the Tahoes are actually cheaper ...for much better vehicle. The Bravada listed at near 38,000.

thecargonzo

Envoy assembly plant question by lyndellw
Just wondering where the Envoy is built. I know that the Bravada is built in Ohio. Not sure on the Envoy. Thanks.

All three models are "built" at Moraine Assembly, south of Dayton, OH. I believe the engine's are made in Flint Michigan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

jbossert

dwsiis - You need to compare apples to apples. If you compare the two chevy products (Tahoe vs. Trailblazer) with similar equipment, you will definitely find the 7k difference. My loaded LT Trailblazer had a sticker around 35.5K. The 2001 Tahoes that I priced (with the same equipment) stickered at 42.5K to 43.5K. Also, please provide examples of the "current incentives" for the 2001 Tahoe because I can't find any.

ducky87

drove the new explorer and the envoy & 2002 bravado and have a few thoughts
the explorer is a QUANTUM improvent on the previous edition, the ride is strong and solid. you actually feel like to wheels are in touch with the road when the path is less than smooth. the exterior styling is also much improved. the interior is spacious and comfy, but the dash is the typical dreary boring ford dash. michelins will help put the previous tire disaster to rest.
the bravado and envoys I drove rode identically. the dealers did not have the air ride in stock so I can not comment on those issues. the interior of the envoy is hands down the best of the bunch, the "simulated" wood grain is a disappointment but is tolerable.
the dose system, on star, and the other bells/whistles are superb. the sunroof is mediocre at best and considerably impinges on headroom
the engine and transmission on the gmcs can be summed up in one word. silk.

jbossert

lbthedog - You definitely sound like you know what you are talking about. I have a question for you. Do you have any idea how much of a difference there is in acceleration between the 3.42, 3.73 and 4.10 gears? I really couldn't tell the difference on the test drive, but lots of folks seem to feel that there is a significant difference. Thanks.

rthammer

I live in south central Ky and am very interested in the new Trailblazer. My local dealer is unable to find out anything about them for me. Their computer didn't even have a search option for the Trailblazer until 3-13-01. Even then it didn't show anything in the entire US. I know there are plenty of TB's in IL. from the messages I have read here. Does anyone out there know of Trailblazers closer to me? I'm about halfway between Louisville, KY and Nashville, TN. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

scottnsc1

I have noticed in MANY of these post that folks are calling the Olds SUV a Bravado.

The correct spelling is: Bravada

It's a small thing, but if you are going to post at least spell the name correctly.

lyndellw

You stated that you drove both the Bravada, and the Envoy, but neither one had the air suspension.The Bravada only comes one way,and that is with air suspension.Not trying to be a wise guy,but thought you would really like to know.

dindak

The review I read said unless you need the air suspension, don't bother as handling suffers. Bravada indeed does only come with air suspension.

garyw

I hope GM is reading this group. I have $4000 dollars in GM credit and still can't justify it on this vehicle at a sticker of $37K.

Here are my observations after seeing a black unit last night:

- drop dead gorgeous, I could not believe GM designed it.
- best interior and dash design GM ever built, proves they can do it if they try or fund it
- first GM vehicle that did not look like it was designed to be a rental
- way overpriced at $37K, when will GM take the Japanese approach and build it better for less. GM will continue to lose market share with poor marketing decisions backing good/great vehicles. Had they priced the top-of-the-line model at $34,900 it would be a steal after negotiations.
- rear seat room was poor and a huge dissapointment, mark my words that this will kill many sales.

Final thought: If GM would put the same quality interior in the Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban line it would double sales overnight.

dwsiis

I can't believe there are still computer geeks still critisizing spelling.... however the bottom line is that after driving the BravadOOO I canceled my order as my wife was talking divorce if I got one of those klunkers,... desparately wanted the BravadOOO to be nice but it wasn't. She will either continue driving her 99 Blazer, get a 2001 Tahoe like mine or wait for the Avalanche this fall as there is no way we can accept such poor quality just to be the first to have a new model.

dindak

Way over priced at $37K, but a steal at $35K? I'm confused. If you are looking at a $37K Trailblazer it must be a top of the line model. What do you suppose a top of the line Pathfinder will cost ya? 37K is really not out of line and in 6 months or less there will deals to be had. Car market is softening big time.

jbossert

Garyw - I got my 2002 Trailblazer for $3,500 under sticker. A loaded Trailblazer LT 4x4(Power Seats with Lumbar, Leather, Sunroof, Bose, Driver Information Center, Auto Climate Control, Running Boards, Locking Rear Diff., Rear seat Radio & HVAC etc...) for $31,900 is a pretty good deal, considering other vehicles out there for this price. You need to worry about out-the-door price and not the MSRP.

b4z

The correct spelling and pronunciation is bravada.
Your posts will have more credibility with me if it is spelled correctly.
I am trying to get as many different opinions about these vehicles as I can. Obviously I would not give as much weight to the post that has the name of the vehicle spelled incorrectly.
Especially when the writer of said post didn't know that all bravadas come standard with air suspension.

ttrimnell1

I was all set to lease a Bravada or Envoy (both near $36,000), and my salesman would have sold it to me for $300 over invoice. The problem is, GMAC has set this ridiculously high lease interest rate which would make the payments the same as a $41,000 Yukon SLT. I'm sure if you want to buy it, you could shop around for a good interest rate from a bank. Anybody wanting to lease one should wait several months and hope that the lease rates come down, because I really don't think people are going to pay what GMAC and other banks that do leases are asking for right now.

zennar

You're seeing Bravada spelled as Bravado so frequently because of the goofy spell-check this board uses. If you use it, the spell-check flags Bravada as a mis-spelled word. But, rather than default to your original spelling, it defaults to a word of it's choice - Bravado.

So, if you use spell-check, be sure to actively select the spelling you want to use on every word flagged or it will do it for you with some really bizarre results.

akajoe

I just got a Bravada, loaded for around $32k. Sticker was well over $35K. They are dealing, and nobody should have to pay sticker. Many dealers also ship all over the U.S., so if you can't get a dealer nearby to comply, get one referred through the Internet. $300 over invoice is a very good deal.

scottnsc

A local dealer here sells every vehicle on his lot for $98 over invoice. The 2002 Envoy I want is $33700 (MSRP), my price is $30,500. Not bad, and I didn't have to dicker on the price.

Anybody care to share their approximate lease payment amount? I can get no information from GMAC or Smartlease. (They refer me to the dealer who is the one who told me to call them in the first place!!)

Please tell me I can lease an Envoy for approximately $400.00 per month. I love that Envoy, but I'll have to sleep in it if I come home with a $500.00 payment!

Thanks

roderacer

OK. I have a relative that claims he can get a GM manufactured vehicle for cost plus 2-3%... this is COST to the MFR.! I love my uncle and all but tell me if this is legit. I'm sure some of you out there are aware of this employee program.. If I can get a 2002 TB for COST, well... nuff said!

Thanks!
RR

roderacer

JBOSSERT and AKAJOE,

Congrats on your new Trailblazer and Bravada, respectively. I hope you both get the most from them! Maybe I can milk you for some more info before I commit to purchasing one of the new GM's....

RR

ttrimnell1

I talked to 3 different salesmen in my area and they all told me the same thing. If you wanted a $36,000 Envoy or Bravada and you went with a 3 year/36,000 mile lease, then your payments with $0 down would be between $650 and $700 a month. Of course that price difference depends on what you can negotiate the price down to, but even though my salesman would have sold it to me for $300 over invoice my payments would be a little over $650 a month. Even GM employees with their discounts would have to pay $600 a month for the same vehicle and terms as I described. Obviously I was shocked at the payments and my salesman told me to wait several months before I get one because he is sure the lease rates will come down. The GMAC lease rate is 9.9% and the residual value of the truck after 3 years is 54% if you go for 12,000 miles a year and 51% if you go for 15,000 miles a year. I've known my salesman for many years and he tells me anything I want to know about, such as all this lease info. I hope this helps scottnsc and other people out with lease questions and if enough people balk at those payments, maybe GMAC will lower their rates quickly.