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Comments
This is the seal that is near the roof on the body running front to back.I have both covers on both seats but the rear seats only have 1 latch.As far as I can see Quality control is not very effective.
Well it's the first time it's been real cold here
about 24 degrees this morning. I went out to my Envoy to do some last minute things, and the Envoy doesn't like cold weather, it was dead. I tried the onstar, but nothing. Dealers are closed, and we have all these places to go and no way to get there. I call onstar on a land line and they can't even find my Envoy.
So I guess I have to wait until Wednesday before anything can be done to it. They sent out GM Road Service, but the battery is completely dead and won't even hold a charge. So I guess it's a tow truck.
Everyone please have your battery checked to make sure that it is not weak. The Roadside guy said this is common. New vehicles batteries are the worst for going out.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
Debbie
I too noticed that here with temps around 24 or so that it turned over a little slower than I expected after sitting outside at a relatives house all day.
I'll keep you posted on what transpires with my mirrors and HVAC. Come First week or so of Jan, it's due to go in and be fixed.
tim
crossing his fingers
I just got a letter from the dealer that my replacement mirror is in. So I guess when they tow it in, I'll have them do that also.
I was told by a friend today that I should have them check out the electrical system, because the battery shouldn't have went dead that quick, it may have shorted out somewhere draining the battery. But then again it would not hold a charge after they got it started. What do you think?
I also think they need a backup battery for the onstar. I know they say that if you have an accident and the airbag depolys it automatically calls onstar, but what if it's bad enough to destroy the battery or interupt the power to onstar? Onstar said that they could not locate my car today, where was I at so they could send someone.
I left messages on the dealer's voice mail, just a nice holiday greeting about my Envoy not working. Ha! Ha! I wonder if they will call me on Wednesday?
Road Service said I could rent a car, but they would only allow $30 per day for 5 days. What car can you get for 4 adults with Christmas presents for $30 a day. (A Neon) Ya right thats not going to work.
Merry Christmas
Debbie
Thanks
Frank
Ps Merry Christmas!!!
I've noticed that the recirc shuts off after 8 minutes or so, too. Very irritating. My only guess is that the GM engineers did that so that you wouldn't 'fog up your windshield.'
Another annoyance is that the car doesn't remember the settings of the recirc button after you turn it off / turn it on. It should remember that one, too...
That is yet another annoying issue with the HVAC.
I'm going to go to the dealer after Christmas and have them fix that HVAC calibration and ask them about this, too... maybe they can turn that 'feature' off.
I'm wishing I bought the manual climate control right about now...
-Jeff
I have been absent from this board for about a week and wow.. I missed a slew of activity during that time.
First to Tim.... Sorry to hear that you may be loosing your TB? I am really starting to like my Envoy! It now has 5,400 miles on it and it's only approximately 5 weeks old! Yes, I drive a lot. I don't know if the HVAC problem was specific to your build date? Mine seems to work wonderfully? Nothing wierd to date just yet, although he did stall on me one day last week, but seems to be okay now??? One of those things I guess? Well, I think that myself and the rest of the group would hate to lose you from this thread....hmmm.. what could we do to entice you to try another one of the Triplets?
Well, I can say that at 5,400 miles, I am not experiencing any mechanical issues thus far with the exception of my ON-STAR not working from day one. The dealer and On-Star have been working on this, but NOT FAST ENOUGH.. I am billed monthly for the premium service and I've made them reverse the charges for this month since the system has never worked. Anyone else on this board ever experience trouble with On-Star? When I press the blue button, I can connect to the call center, but they don't get any information on who has contacted them, so I have to give them my account number each and every time. Plus, they cannot remote/find the vehicle anywhere?? Strange...
Also, on a side note.. we finally got a major snowfall in the northern part of Michigan last night. I immediately jumped in my Envoy to see what the A4WD system could do... HONESTLY.. I was a little dissapointed. My dad has a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited and my mom has a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, both are V-8's and have the Quadra-Drive system. Ummm.. they will LITERALLY run circles around the A4WD system used on the Envoy. We (mom, dad, and myself) decided to take the Envoy to Meijer at 1am last night and my dad was somewhat dissapointed as well? I haven't really analyzed the systems behavior 100% just yet, but I believe that when you take off and your wheels slip, it somewhat "ungracefully" engages the front axle but not like the system in the Jeep's and Bravada's. They will actually engage the wheels that have the most traction, not the axle. Oh well, I may try releasing a little air outta the tires as well.
Otherwise... GREAT VEHICLE.
Thanks!
Dennis D.
IExplore2000@aol.com
A bunch of peope on this board, including myself, have this problem. I have not seen any posts on a resolution, nor have I taken it to dealer yet.
Hopefully, GM will figure out what the problem is and post a TSB.
Mark
Three things come to mind that will be a major factor in your comparison. Tires can make a BIG difference in traction, too many variables to make a comparison unless they both are shod the same. The other is the mode of the t-case. Was the Jeep in 4 wheel hi or in the full time position? Did you try the 4 hi position in your Envoy? The A4WD position will not provide maximum power to the front and rear wheels, less to the front than rear and not all the time, 4 hi distributes power 50/50 and locks the front and rear driveshafts so they rotate and the same speed. I've driven my TB in snow and it will go anywhere I'd reasonably want to, yours should too. Also, a 4WD vehicle without a limited slip or locking differential could end up a 2WD vehicle with one front and one rear wheel driving, the others spinning helplessly. Tim
they have a great full time four wheel drive system and if there are any Q's let me know. I've worked on and studied many types of drive systems and ours is nothing but a 4WD system that engages with slip detection. Nothing more.
It just locks the drive axles just like 4WD Hi with a 50/50 distribution upon slip detection. There is no less power than 50/50. Once slip is stopped, it reverts back to 2WD. Same on the new Bravada's. The old Smart Track with a viscous clutch are gone (too bad really) Now, the Bravada just adds a limited slip rear end.
For 4WD systems (50/50) A4WD is great as the only time true 4WD is needed is when you're giving the vehicle power. However upon braking in 4WD Hi on a part time system, the are locked, the ABS isn't affective.
Jeep, however, distributes the power equally and drops the torque from the spinning wheel.
On snow and on-road situations, the Locker in the rear can actaully be worse and is in most cases if the driver is not familar with the characteristics of 4WD.
Just as in a older rear drive Camaro, the rear locks both wheels...they both spin and the back end becomes more unstable.However, without it, the one wheel will spin(passenger side on triplets), but the rear doesn't become as detached from the road as the other wheel by nature looses torque and thsu the ability to spin.
Not ideal off road or in mud, etc...but more affective on road for most people. This is due ot the fact that in 4WD Hi, even our TB's can cause the rear and fronts to break loose thus the rear end will float and thus the driver has less control. My guess is that the majority of roll overs and SUV's off the side of the road is due to inexperience and an SUV with a locker in the rear combined together.
The only time you're going to really get stuck without a locker is in extreme off road situations....or trying to pull out of a ditch in 10" of snow, but chances of getting stuck in the streets are slim.
tim
Actually, I just walked to the garage to look at my mom's Jeep. The system has 3 settings: All-Time 4-WD, Neutral and 4-Lo. The way that the system works is that the lever stays in All Time 4WD just as the Envoy stays in 2wd.
The Jeep's Quadra-Drive system has a level of sophistication that enables it to run in 2wd until wheel slip is detected. Once detected, the system will route power to the individual wheels (not axles) which have the most grip. The system can transfer as much as 100% of the power to only ONE wheel if necessary. Actually, the system is pretty nice! Both my dad and myself bought 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limiteds and I had mine for approximately 1 year. I won a lemon law settlement with mine, but during my time of ownership, I really applauded the 4WD system.
IF I place my Envoy in 4Hi, it pulls better, but then it never places itself back into 2wd mode, so I leave it in the A4WD mode. Also, I thought about the tires and my tires are about the same "fatness" as my fathers. The Envoy tires are 17 inchers versus the 16 inchers on his truck. Now, since my mom's is a 2001, she has 17" tires but they are narrower than the Envoys, but she loves the way that the truck handles in the snow. Oh well? Guess it's one of those things... I would guess that the Bravada handles regular snow situations a little better than the Envoy and TB since the Smart Trak system is very similar to the Quadra Drive system.. with the exception of not having to use the 4-LO which the Bravada doesn't have.
Thanks!
Dennis D.
Actually, no, the new Bravada's are not as nice in the drivetrain as the Jeeps like they used to be. They did away with the Viscous Clutch AWD system and use the same as our TB's and Envoys. Now, the A4WD with a locking rear. My apologies if I used the term limited slip in a prior post. It's a locker.
Prior to the redesign, the power used to be through a full time AWD system that had a 65/35% powers split between the rear/front.
I had a 1997 Oldsmobile Bravada and the Smart Trak system worked fairly well. I can remember putting the vehicle on a solid ice patch in an apartment complex and testing the Smart Trak system, friends said that you could see the power being diverted to each wheel with the most grip, but after reviewing the brochure for the 2002, I seems like it is just a regular A4wd system used in the TB and Envoy? Hmm..
Oh well! Just to think, I almost bought the Bravada based on the Smart Trak principle alone? I actually hate anything that involves having to shift into 4wd, but the Envoy does suffice with the A4wd.
Thanks!
Dennis D.
I'm also having problems with the mirror position recall, and that's gonna get checked out too.
I'll let you all know what I find out about the 60mph issue by this weekend if they can determine what it is. I believe this has been an on-going problem so I hope GMC has addressed this and told their service stations what to do about it.
The kids loved the DVD player, watching 9 different movies through the course of the weekend. Has anyone ever figured out a way to play the DVD movie through the Bose system?? Would be nice if the wireless headphone batteries die in the middle of a trip.
Vibration - In the course of the weekend, the mysterious pedal vibration happened frequently due to the many miles of 2 lane 45 mph roads that were driven. I seem to believe the latest theory that this relates to torque lock-up in the transmission as I noticed at about the same speed, although not as pronounced, the same phenemonon in my mother in-laws 2001 Olds Aurora. I also drove another relative's 2001 Toyota Avalon over the same road, at the same speed but did not have a similar response hence its not the road. By the way comparing the 3 vehicles, I still like my TB LTZ much better, overall I think it just drove better. Obviously, the sedans had me whipped on cornering but after having SUV's for over 7 years I just don't take corners at 50+ mph anymore. I'll wait until I hear about a tried and true fix for the vibration before I make any changes.
Mirrors - about a month ago I complained to the dealer about my "double-vision" outside driver's mirror. They replaced the assembly, had to wait a week for the replacement to come in. When the new one was put on, don't know if it happened during installation or shipment but part of the plastic molding along the window edge was broken and missing. 1 week later another mirror assembly was installed with no problems. Have not had any issues with wandering mirrors either so I would assume those problems have been corrected on the latest production assemblies.
Electrical - the TB sat outside at my parents the other night, coldest night to date 11 degrees. When I started the TB in the morning, had something unusual happen. She cranked slower than normal (you'd expect that in the cold), she started fine but for about 5 seconds the volt meter read only about 10 amps along with the lights and everything else remaining dimly lit. Then the meter jumped up to 14+ amps and everything else brightened accordingly. Has anyone else experienced this? Was this a fluke or are the electronics designed to do this at the lower temps?
Tim
2002 TB LTZ
Thanks.
I think it may be normal. I've noticed it in other cars, also.
If the dash melts because of it, then I would alert the dealer.
I jump started the Envoy and took it in to the dealer, and they told me the battery going dead was my fault. I drive the Envoy every day, but they said it was because I didn't use it enough.
Where in the owner's manual does it say that you have to use the vehicle everyday to keep the battery charged. I asked him that if I went out of town for a week and didn't use it, should I expect it not to start when I get back, and he wouldn't answer that question.
I have a 91 GMC Safari van that has sat in the driveway for over a month (not starting it) with a 3 year old battery, and it started right up.
They also told me that if I would have went somewhere to have the battery changed, by someone other than GM, even though they were closed for the holidays, I would have voided the warranty on my electrical system.
Dealer price on the mudguards is about $30/pair. gmpartsdirect.com is about $20/pair +/- the pennies...
Autoventshade makes visors comparable to the GM ones (stick ons w/ 3M tape) $55 from jcwhitney special order. They also make tail light covers for all three triplets. (www.jcwhitney.com)
Weathertech makes very nice weatherflector visors. (they fit inside the window channel) approx $80 They also make a very nice bugshield for all three triplets... (www.macnielauto.com)
Sounds like your dealer is jerking your chain, which is unfortunate. Maybe it would be the easiest and least stressful to just call GM customer service, and tell them what transpired. They will probably contact the dealer, and the next time you see them, they will be much more accomodating. They can tell you about the warranty question too.
Good luck!
jim f
Rick
My Envoy is about 1 month old wih 1200 miles. The rear suspension failed on Christmas Eve, and my guess is it had to do with the cold weather that finally arrived.
I browsed through about 200 posts in this forum, but didn't see anything similar. I'm suprised not to see more about it, considering my dealership alone has had multiple occurances...
Just wondering.
I have the 6 disk CD changer, not Bose. Should head phones have been included?
Also, to the left of the cigarette lighter there is a hole with plastic recessed horizontally approx. 1 1/2". I think this is where the 4 WD control is normally located. I don't have 4 WD. Should there be a "dummy" cover over this hole?
Looked on the roof. No dings near the sunroof.
Thanks,
Elaine
GM through your Chevy dealer.
Thanks,
Mike
gas mileage vs. acceleration and towing ability.
A higher number = lower gearing.
The ratio is simply the number of turns the driveshaft must make to turn
the rear axle once. A higher number lets the engine rev up quicker and gives
you better off the line accelaration. It's just like riding a bike. You start in 10th gear
and I'll start in 1st and we'll see who accelerates faster.
The difference can be fairly significant.
The disadvantage with a higher ratio is that you'll be reving higher on the highway leading to poorer gas mileage.
The choices are 3.42, 3.73, and 4.10
3.42 = best highway mileage, poorest accelaration and towing ability
4.10 = worst highway mileage, best acceleration and towing ability
I have the 3.73, but I kind of wish I had 4.10's. However, I live in Denver and with
the thin air, you get about 80% of the power as at sea level, so I can't be a good judge
of acceleration.
The GM figures for gas mileage are for the 3.42 gears - kind of a loophole.
As for the difference in gas mileage between the different rear axle ratios, that seems
to be the million dollar question around here. I don't know. I'm of the opinion that
SUV's just don't get good gas mileage so why worry too much about it?
When I bought by Trailblazer, all of them seemed to have the 3.73 and I didn't
want to special order one so I went with that.
With my 3.73's and 17" wheels, it really doesn't rev too high on the highway.
I don't see the need to go down to the 3.42's.
jim f
Thanks!
Installation took about 20 mins (5 mins per wheel), it was NOT necessary to remove the wheels, but you need to turn the front wheels to their outmost positions when attaching the fronts to get access for a screwdriver/drill. I used a handheld push drill to punch thru the plastic of the rear liners, and it was cake. But you might be able to con your service guys into doing it for you for free if you're a fast talker...
Yes, I just went through the rear-air-suspension failure last week on my SLT Envoy.
After "bouncing" all the way to the dealer, they thought it was a leak in one of the lines from the compressor to the suspension. They fixed the "leak" only to find that the suspension would not refill with air. The next day (they gave me a loaner from their used car lot - a 2000 Grand Am) they discovered that a valve was leaking (or was stuck open) and would not allow pressure to build up in the suspension. The valve was ordered RUSH and arrived the next day (2nd consecutive day without the Envoy) and upon my request the dealership DELIVERED it to my office by 3:00pm that day. I Drove home for the Holidays THAT NIGHT (about 450 miles) and returned a few days later with no problems.
About 1 month after delivery in July (I ordered one "custom-made" in May to be SURE that I got it off-the-line AFTER the fix for the Control-Arm recall) while driving in the rain, the engine just STOPPED. I drifted to the side of the road, put it in park and could not get the engine to turn over (or make any sound at all for that matter). I had electrical power but nothing from the engine. On-Star could not diagnose the problem, so they called for a tow truck. After a few days of tests at the dealership, they informed me that "one computer node was not able to communicate with another computer node, and therefore the engine and computer system shut down." The fix they got from GM (prepare yourself...this sounds weird) was to disconnect the wires from the battery terminals and hold them together for 60 seconds. This would "reset" the computer and everything would be okay. I asked if they thought this might happen again (and I would need to know this strange "fix") and they said they didn't think so (that's confidence for ya!).
All in all I LOVE my Envoy. But 2 major malfunctions in 6 months (plus 1 recall for the transmission/parking brake issue)is my limit. Anything else and I might have a change of heart.
1) gas pedal vibrates at about 60 mph.
2) wind noise (whistle) from LH outside mirror at between 45 - 65 mph.
3) vibration in vehicle at around 800-1000 RPM while accelerating.
4) weather molding on both RH doors is not the same as the LH doors. You can see paint color on the RH doors.
5) climate control switches to AC from the dash vents if set at 74 degrees or lower even on cold days.
6) wrong MPG on vehicle computer - about .7 MPG too high.
7) water gets inside the outer headlight covers when washing vehicle.
8) poor MPG - around 15 mpg in 50/50 driving conditions and only 19.5 at all highway driving.
9) front seats do not have a cover on inside floor bracket.
10) the odometer turns on sometimes when the vehicle is cranked and at other times it remains off. Am I doing something wrong - I want it OFF.
Please report on any corrections to any of the above problems. Not everyone has had all these problems, but scanning the entire BB takes too long to find answers. Many owners have reported the problems but no answers.
Overall, I love the TB but want the little problems corrected.
Well, I must admit.. today my worst nightmare came true. Ever since day one I test drove the Envoy, I felt that the body panels felt a little "tinny" to the touch if you know what I mean, especially the front fenders.. they FELT CHEAP and I often wondered how this vehicle would hold up in a serious crash. It didn't have that overall solidness that some of the rivals had, but I purchased it anyhow!
Yesterday, (Friday, December 28th) my mom's best friend/co-worker was killed in a trip back from Alabama driving their new black 2002 Envoy SLT. It turns out that she, her husband, oldest daughter and daughters two kids (ages 23 and 16) were returning back to Michigan in their black Envoy SLT that I check out last week when they were in town, they brought it over so that they could see mine as well. On the trip back, they were heading through Kentucky when her husband (and don't quote me on all the details yet because this is all word of mouth thus far) decided to switch lanes, lost control of the vehicle and the vehicle spun around 5 times in which the thrust threw open the passenger-side front door where my mom's best friend was sitting and once the vehicle hit the cement embankment (sp?), she was crushed instantly and died. Additionally, her grand daughter (23 yrs old) was on the passenger side back seat and she is listed in critical condition, but they are expecting her to pass soon. The other three (husband, oldest daughter and daughters son) were released from the hospital. According to the reports, they were not speeding and the road conditions were not bad at all. My assumption is that her husband may have been a little on the fatigue side when he lost control of the vehicle. Also, they said that his wife (my mom's best friend) had her seat belt on in addition to the other passengers.
I really don't know what to think about it personally until all the concrete facts come in, but I have ALWAYS questioned the safety of this vehicle since the day that I drove my aunts Trail Blazer and I tapped on the front fenders.. it just felt CHEAP and I swore that I would wait to see if they would make some improvements with the 2003 or 2004 model first before purchasing one, but never the less, I own a 2002 Envoy now, but I dramatically question my own safety since I drive a considerable amount of miles for work. I currently have 5,500 miles and my SUV is approximately 45 days old!
Yes, after this incident, I just do know which road to take considering that I drive in heavy traffic oriented cities such as Detroit and speeds ranging from 0 to 75 mph! How do you guys feel about the overall safety and security of this vehicle? Has anyone accessed any good crash test web pages that list the results for the triplets? If so, please let me know.. I have a very concerned mother who is now desperately afraid of losing her only child to a car accident in which this vehicle could be crushed like a "sardine can" (to quote her words exactly while she's in tears)? To be honest, I still have my 2000 Ford Explorer Limited which I am trying to sell, but I notice that whenever I drive it as opposed to driving the Envoy, it DOES seem to have this feeling of a "tank" so to speak.. even though all the roll over stories plagued this vehicle, it felt very solid.. much more so than the 2002 Envoy. Please advise if you can anyone and everyone... otherwise it may be "bye.. bye" to the vehicle that I have praised so much to date.
Also, I noticed yesterday that when driving through snow on roads that have been salted, you can actually HEAR the salt being thrown against the body of the vehicle as you drive.. it sounds as if it's coming inside if you know what I mean.. not well insulated at all.. could that be a negative sign as well? A sign that questions the overall structural integrity/build quality of this vehicle? At least I know that my Ford does a good job of masking road debris hitting the fender wells of the vehicle?? Hmmmm???
Thank You!
Concerned Envoy Owner,
Dennis D.
IExplore2000@aol.com
http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2001/pr121101.htm
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0119.htm
Attached is a link to Progressive's website that has actual crash test footage from IIHS. They are pretty interesting.
http://www.progressive.com/RC/VSafety/rc_crash_videos.asp
Also, being an engineer invovled with the auto industry for over 11 years, I understand your concerns but will admit that my feelings are different concerning the safety of these vehicles based on my experience and knowledge of these and other vehicles.
Tim
02 TB LTZ
OH MY! I'm so sorry for the loss and experience.
You and I just had an in depth discussion about the Triplets too. Never really crossed my mind about this type of occurance happening so close to home.
Peronsally, I don't have a huge concern for the safety of the triplets. I mean, such an accident is tragic, but I'm not sure if the integrity of the vehicle could change the events/outcome.
Obviously we don't have all the first hand details to review, but it must have been a pretty bad spin/accident to throw open a door.
My question are what caused the door to open? and was the passenger belted in? The impact alone was pretty strong I'm sure. Perhaps a side curtain air bag upgrade is needed. Especially considering the condition of the rear seat passenger age 23. GM...are you reading...
I agree with the other Tim, the integrity and engineering from a safety standpoint seems pretty good. I would like to see the curtain airbag though.
The salt thing to me is from an insulation need, IMO. I too hear it and think it's just the noise from hollow space. Overall though, I think the frame and safety cage is pretty strong.
Again, my prayers on the situation. Keep in touch via email too.
tim lauro
Look ma, no bolts! I didn't realize this until I started to remove. The front grille is fastened by metal pop-out clips. It was necessary to remove to affix the billet grille to the OEM grille with butterfly fasteners
Finished product... Total time: 20 mins
Thanks
jim f