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Comments
It does mean no 4WD-Low or 2WD Hi settings for over-rides. In A-4WD they are driven 100% by the rear wheels.
tim
Some of us put more into deciding what car to buy than a simple price/warranty calculation. Some people do look at a car purchase in that manner. I think all 3 triplets are great vehicles. I bought an Envoy because I greatly preferred the look, both inside and out, over the TB or the Bravada. Even with the extended warranty offer, I did not want a Bravada because it will soon be extinct. I plan on keeping my Envoy 7-10 years and want to have a vehicle that is still manufactured when I sell it. I also want the exact vehicle that I prefer if I am going to have to look at and drive it every day for that period of time, and that is why I always order a vehicle. I certainly think that the style of each triplet will appeal to different people. They have some different features too, and once again, each person's personal preference will lead them to what is best for them. I cannot ever look at a vehicle as an appliance. Although I use objective criteria to narrow down my choices in a particular class of vehicles, I will always make the final decision based on subjective criteria. So, there is much more to it than "mine is a GMC and yours is an Olds...."
tlauro - The Smarttrak system is more than just A4WD as I explained in an earlier post (and the AWD/4wd forum), and is superior to the A4WD mode for on-road conditions due to it's faster reaction time and ability to control torque transfer. However, the lack of a LO Range will prevent it from ever being a serious off-road vehicle. Now if they would only go back to a continous torque split...
On the seat belt tension, I am glad I brought this up. "Jac27" be aware you are defeating the seat belt with all that slack. Very dangerous! I would suggest putting that clip on the belt at the point where it enters the seat back to relieve the tension but not allowing any more than an inch of slack btwn you and the belt. Then you have to deal with all tha loose slack in the belt when you get out of the vehicle. Best thing would be for GM to come up with a TSB and a fix. If enough owners would complain about it maybe something safe and "official" could be done.
-mike
1998 Jimmy $12,460
1998 Envoy $16,280
1998 Bravada $11,795
All in excellent condition with 55,000 miles.
About the warranty... I bought the same Major Guard 5 year 60,000 mile warranty, for $620.00. I would have saved another $500 with the Olds loyalty. So, I guess I could have saved $1,200 more on the Bravada. It just wasn't worth it to me. I can't imagine taking a Bravada to a Cadillac dealer, and getting the same treatment as you would from an Olds dealer. I could be wrong, though.
of the Trailblazer (not a knock, just my preference) so it was between an Envoy and a Bravada. The Bravada dealer was well under invoice, gave the best trade-in, and had the extended warranty (their cost was $1000 for the warranty, it listed at $1500+). For me it was a no brainer, I saved $2500 over the best Envoy deal. GM says they can be serviced at any GM dealer once Olds is gone, so we'll see. So far, so good! All I can say is, it pays to shop.
GAM2
tim
I have 2WD version, so no matter AWD or not.
Potential future resale value is a gamble, and not part of my buying decision. I buy for now, not for when I trade it back in.
I wanted fully loaded, with heated seats and all. Bravada has all that, and a real pretty Red.
Only thing about the three, is I think the GMC has the best front end looks. But other than that, they are all the same car.
Bravada has a nicer done interior.
Figure in real dollars, with avg wholesale for my trade, I got my 2WD Bravada fully loaded with all available options including sunroof, Bose, onstar, heated seats and such (except running boards and mud flaps and DVD) for under $28K. Sticker was near $34,860. (Trade was a 2000 Lincoln LS V8 with only the high end stereo - KBB' at about $18K). In other words, I gave $10K difference.
And a 5 year warranty. Any GM dealer can service the car, and most will gladly do warranty work.
Don't get me wrong, anyone can and should buy the car they want. But to just say the Bravada isn't worth as much as a TB or Envoy in not really correct. They are the same vehicle with a different trim level and name. One should run as well and for as long ans another, and for the money, the Bravada is a better deal right now. At trade time it may not be worth as much, but I may die before then, and then who cares.
Wichita Greg
Who really likes his 02 Bravada.
Steve
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-mike
I appreciate your concern, but until a better solution is found, I prefer to continue to use them.
Have any of you had any success in getting your car replaced by GM if you had this problem? If not, what have they done for you?
-mike
There is no difference in how the Bravada Transfers torque compared to the others and the reaction times are the same. They are the same. 100%RWD and 50/50% max upon engagement.
I just stopped by and met with a good friend who is a master technician and worked for my family for years. He currently works at an Olds/Caddy Dealership. The training is the same for all models.
tim
former dealer
YOU WROTE:
tlauro - The Smarttrak system is more than just A4WD as I explained in an earlier post (and the AWD/4wd forum), and is superior to the A4WD mode for on-road conditions due to it's faster reaction time and ability to control torque transfer. However, the lack of a LO Range will prevent it from ever being a serious off-road vehicle. Now if they would only go back to a continous torque split...
Very smooth, PLENTY of power, and great fit and finish. Far better acceleration, handling and comfort than our previous SUV, a '99 Toyota 4Runner (also a very nice truck, but not in the same league as the triplets). All three of the triplets are very stylish - I think GM has hit a home run with this one. We just returned from a 4 day camping trip in the mountains (at about 6000 feet) and the Envoy performed great. The I-6 is an awesome powerplant - is the XL version V8 also going to be DOHC and 4 valve/cylinder?
The only problem (?) that we had is that we heard a squeak a couple of times from the front end area when we went over bumps at low speeds. I put some lithium grease on the hood stops and this went away (thanks to whomever posted this fix).
Paul
JMW - I have the same problem. I brought it to the dealer twice and they told me they could not replicate the problem. I finally realized it was happening everytime I had the car washed and when I brought the car back for the bad engine I told them and they once again told me they could not replicate the problem.
engines in the triplets. Because it is such a new design, GM would have these defective engines sent back to engineering in order to fix possible future problems.
Such is the cost of buying a "New Model Year"
2,220 miles on my TB and no problems to speak of yet.
Walter
Oh, one other thing, were you the one who bolted your lower fascia versus using the push-pin rivets?
Since Isuzu is now in the mix GM should have or should get rid of the antiquated auto-4wd transfer case in these units and get the more expensive Borg and Warner TOD system for them. They would probably need a slightly upgraded version of the T-case used in the Trooper to handle the higher torque of the I6 engine and/or 5.3l engine in the TB/EN/AS/BV quintuplet. The advantage of TOD over the VC and Auto4wd is that it puts 15/85 as the std torque split with up to 50/50 if needed in the TOD mode, but also has a low range which locks in the torque converter at 50/50 with low range. On the Trooper we even have a guage on the dash showing what % torque split at any given time, they could work that into the multi-display that is programable for the TB/EN/BV/AS dash.
-mike
I'll be under a Bravada this weekend with my one friend who works at the dealership as we are going to be doing some more work on my TB and the exhuast, so I'll let you know what I see and find.
However, he could not find any documentation that the Smarttrack System has variable torque. No one can make it appear in writing or a diagram from a reputable source...ie not a trade magazine or what not. Unlike the Troopers and what not, I can't find where GM is implimenting any electronic torque control on the Bravadas. Show me how GM...don't just carryover the name from past years when Smarttrack really was Smart.
Limited slip differentials...the name says it all, limit wheel slip. They do not prevent wheel slip. They only delay wheel slip. Thus the front and rear wheels will break loose on the Bravada's just the same as on the other Triplets. I can see them possibly having that over the TB and Envoy. However, that's not what I would call being able to vary the torque to each wheel.
Point me to where you found the manufacuring difference. I can go from there.
Lastly, no I didn't make any changes to the front/clips on my truck.
Take Care.
CMACK4 WROTE:
"That's interesting, because I spoke to several mechanics as well. All identified that smarttrak is actually capable of a 0/100 percent split (used to be 15/85 with old viscous clutch), that actually shifts torque completely to the front wheels via the limited slip center diff. A4WD, I was told, basically throws the transfer case into 4WD Hi whenever slippage is detected at the rear wheels, which forces a 50/50 split with no variation in torque transfer. After doing some research, I identified that the sensors as you identified are the same, and they are both electronically engaged by a motor which significantly reduces engagement time, but the transfer cases are obviously totally different and are even manufactured by separate companies. I'm not here to start a war over the different systems... it's pointless. I still give the nod to smarttrak for on-road applications though, since it can manage torque ratio.
Oh, one other thing, were you the one who bolted your lower fascia versus using the push-pin rivets?"
-mike
tim
-mike
I think that in one of my earlier post (i.e. December 2001) I had given you all some vital information concerning the faulty engine blocks that some of you are experiencing.
My father works for the GM Powertrain division here in Saginaw, Michigan in which they use the robotics to make the engine blocks for the 4.2 L engine used in the triplets. My dad warned me wayyy back when (before the control arm recall) about the quality control issues that they had with the 4.2 L engines. The line workers were pretty much aware of the faulty blocks but when brought to the attention of GM, their demands were pretty much ignored and they were asked to keep producing (or something along these lines). I can remember this discussion with my father. He was quite upset because this engine was "their baby" the workers had ranted and raved about this new technology and for what? A BIG SLAP IN THE FACE later down the road. And to quote my father "For GM to let the bad blocks roll off the assembly line was completely wrong and a degradation of their reputation/character."
After reading these post for the past couple of days, I told him this morning that there had been several complaints of engine failures. He then mentioned to me that they were estimating anywhere between 1500 - 2000 bad blocks went off of the assembly line and he knew that people would start having problems.
I guess for me, I would like to know if those of you who are experiencing engine trouble purchased your triplet prior to January 2001? My father stated that those with later build dates should be okay? I know that my Envoy SLT was built in 10/01 and at 9K, so far so good.
"March 4, 2002
General Motors
Detroit GM has officially announced that the 2003 Trailblazer EXT and Envoy XL will offer an optional V8 engine this fall. The midsize SUVs will use the same all-aluminum version of the Vortec 5300 V8 that will power the Chevrolet SSR. The new engine is 100 lbs lighter than the current cast iron 5300 and meets Californian ULEV standards without exhaust gas recirculation. Engine weight and space requirements were alo improved by the use of a "pan-axle" design which allows the front differential to pass through the oil pan. Final horsepower and torque ratings have not been released but will be similar to the current version. "
-mike
Thanks!
Thanks.
I believe all the I-6 engines are built in Flint, Mi. I think the Saginaw, Mi. plant does the casting for the block and then the block is sent to Flint (a new plant) where it is assembled. That engine then goes to Ohio to be put in the vehicle.
FYI
-mike