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Comments
-juice
I bet the short-life '04 model has the 210 HP Forester XT engine, and the all-new '05 Legacy turbo gets ~ 250 HP.
Bob
Hopeful thinking I know.
-mike
-mike
Looks like Subaru is getting serious about going after Audi and BMW.
They could get anywhere from 210 over 300 h.p. from that engine.
The AK guys were busted. :-) I guess they were contacted by the same people that keep throwing Patti in the dungeon. :-)
-Dennis
And don't forget, they're bigger and lots of families need the room, and would like another option besides the H6.
Let's apply the same logic to the current 2.5l engine, do the Impreza and Forester outsell the Legacy line? Nope.
-juice
Enjoy!
Craig
Bob
I swear I seen it on one of those TV car programs about 2 weeks ago. It was awesome!
Haven't heard anyone else mention it, so I'm wondering if it was just a figment of my imagination, or whether it was just someones wishful thinking.
Just curious.
Ken
The 165hp Forester outhandles a 165hp Legacy GT IMO; shorter wheelbase compensates for higher center of gravity. Not as good a ride but more fun to toss around on backroads. At least that's what I convinced myself of 3 years ago.
Ed
I am new to this board and plan to buy my first car this spring or summer. I live in snow belt, so I decided on impreza. My budget is 18K ~20K. The new wrx is a little above my budget. I shopped used wrx under 20k mile but I couldn't find any wrx with tmv(?) price posted here. I really love turbo but I am afraid I have to give it up. I heard if I can't buy WRX never buy impreza. Is RS that bad compared to its competitor not WRX?
Nile
Bob
Craig
BTW, one other difference is no rear LSD on the RS.
-mike
I guess that when a truck in front of you on the highway dumps it's load and the forester doesn't handle as well as the legacy you'll be there yelling "but I can out accelerate you"!
-mike
Also a bit cheaper and easier to improve the handling of the Forester versus adding signifigant power to the Legacy.
-B
No, that's completely false. The power and some of the handling will be different, but ANY Impreza is a good car.
I had a 97 Outback Sport before my WRX and loved it. Low on power, but high on reliability and great grip with AWD.
An '03 WRX will be just slightly over your 20K limit. The '03's are selling for under invoice in a lot of places since the facelifted '04 comes out in the Spring.
Go for a test drive.
-Dennis
-mike
The Legacy could get a turbo and appeal to a different, performance-oriented crowd. I think the H6 is more luxury/utility oriented.
In the Forester vs. Legacy debate, the key is *weight*, the Forester is hundreds of pounds lighter. In fact some Foresters are lighter than an Impreza WRX wagon.
So yeah, Ed can easily use RS springs on his Forester for a couple of hundred. Getting a Legacy to be as quick as an XT would take several thousand.
-juice
I'd wait for the factory one. It won't have rebates/incentives right away, but I bet they'll be close to invoice.
-juice
So, I would hypothesize that prices will loosen up on plain-Jane 04 WRXs within a month after they hit the street. Will the prices be as good as they are on the closeout 03s? No way, but you should still be able to get down near invoice (probably above) rather than the $500 to $1200 under invoice that people are getting on the 03s.
Even if you can't get the special Subaru financing on an 04 model, you may be able to get a competiteive rate elsewhere (I did on my 03). And be aware, the current 03 deal from Subaru offers $500 cash incentive on the WRX -OR- the special financing, but not both.
I guess I would say to do the math. Figure on getting an 03 for $500 to $1000 under invoice, add the sunroof install price back in (and can it be included in the loan?) and see where that gets you.
Do we even have pricing on the 04s yet? How much will the factory sunroof cost?
Craig
-juice
I'm saying that a legacy v. Forester the legacy is going to handle better even given the increased weight.
-mike
-juice
Also, we have 2 WRX wagons (5-speed) in the parking lot here at work. One silver one, and one white one (the white's brand new). Looks like the car is pretty popular. I like them alot, and would definitely consider one.
My dad's relatives have an old 80s Subaru wagon with the crap beat out of it and 210K miles from running up and down mountains in NC. It's 4WD and stick, and still runs to this day.
-juice
Interesting that their more expensive and quieter model does without frameless doors.
Also, as far as the tinny noise from the doors closing, my take is that Subaru has not spent the dollars to tune the sound of the doors closing to a solid sounding "THUNK", as opposed to many other companies that spend the dollars for that.
Mercedes spends a lot of money to make the sound of the doors closing, sound impressive. The M-class was criticized in its introduction year, for its tinny door-closing sound and in the year after, Mercedes tuned the sound to make it sound solid. The inherent safety in the structure is a completely different aspect and has definitely not changed, regardless of the more impressive sounding "THUNK". Structural strength is all in the way it is designed, and not in the sound of the doors closing...
Later...AH
Best shifter: first, you cannot compare shifter with long linkage (like Impreza) and the one which sticks directly to gearbox (BMW). The latter always would be better. Second, Honda is good, but try Focus, you'd be surprised how sleek its linkage is. And Matrix/Celica is totally out of comparison (I drove Matrix and Focus couple of days ago). Too bad, I never drove Impreza with short shifter, I only tried it on the show car at LA Auto Show.
Thanks.
-mike
unfortunately, not everyone shares your (and my) view of the situation, and some have even suggested that removing the wing would create a _dangerous_ handling vehicle at normal speed limits. Data and facts are needed, because my opinion is no more valuable than anyone elses. (and I'm not saying it should be)
-mike
-Dave
-juice
If someone has a CAD definition of the WRX with and without spoiler, I can run a computational fluid dynamics simulation equivalent to a wind tunnel test. I'm not kidding, I would do it for the learning experience. I do this sort of thing all the time with airplanes, and cars are just a different application.
What I could do is work up some back of the envelope numbers if anyone is interested. Would be better than nothing, I suppose. I'll have to wander over to NASIOC and see what's up.
At the bare minimum, the rear spoiler on the WRX has credibility because it's an AWD vehicle, and the added downforce can benefit traction. Put a spoiler on a FWD car, aft of the rear axle, and any added downforce will come at the expense of traction. That's why I consider most rear spoilers on FWD cars to be a hoax.
Craig