Subaru Impreza WRX

bruticus

I just got back from a B&N bookstore; while there I picked up and flipped through this magazine (I didn't read it word/word as I was just on my way out)

I noticed that, in all the hp&torque output graphs that compared each of the mod'd WRXs to stock, the stock car was credited with like 150hp at max. What was up with that?

Thanks

DjB

barresa62

The automatic tranny WRX's have a rev limiter, something to do w/protecting the tranny. The manual tranny WRX's do not. This is why quite a few manual owners have had their cars at/or beyond 140mph and the automatic ones top out at 130mph. I believe, I've seen 143mph quoted as top speed for the 5spds. I've personally had my WRX up to 120mph and judging by the rpms and pull still left I have no doubt it would reach 140+mph.

Stephen

barresa62

SCC is quoting hp at the wheels hence the lower #'s. Hope this clears it up for ya. :-)

Stephen

paisan

I don't belive they have a rev-limiter, I believe they cut the gas @ above 130mph on almost all cars sold in the US currently. I think it was instituted in/or about 1994, to help with insurance rates or something. It's not rev-sensitive, it has to do with the speedo.

And, yes, a rev-limiter or speed-limiter is in fact a modification, is it not? Just like a chip isn't really a modification. Just because it's easy to do, doesn't make it any less of a mod.

I'll see if I can dig up the stat showing a stock SVX on the track doing 156mph, don't forget it has a 3.3l H6, not a 2.0l H4, that extra displacement does help and it was stickered at $33-$35K which is about 10K more than the current WRX (which means with inflation would be around 15K+ more today).

I'm just adding a dose of reality, sometimes (a lot of times) RS and WRX owners get so hyped on their own product they don't realize that they aren't the be-all-end all of cars.

-mike

pfiffer

Thanks for the info and clarification vis top speed and limiters - much appreciated!

snead_c

In the WRX these make for different autos. I seriously considered an auto but after driving one I realized that the WRX is a sports car and really only drives well with a manual... an OB or the 2.5 RS are the cars for auto..good power and low end torque...long term durability has more to do with care and driving habits than with transmission selection...my opinion. Drive both then decide...I bet you'll get a manual !

ramiller1

I agree 100%. If you are looking to buy a WRX, then the stick is the transmission of choice if enthusiastic driving is your goal. It weighs 60 lbs. less and gives you more rpm control of the engine, which is important for keeping the turbo boost on tap.

An auto only really shines with an engine that has a lot of low-end torque, which the WRX does not have. It excels at being an open road car, not a red-light drag racer, if you catch the distinction. Everyone is different, tho, so you might ask to drive both and see which one you personally prefer.

As far as design, the stick has the virtue of being simple and foolproof in transferring the traction power. The auto VDT is more technically sophisticated but whether it actually works better in real life--who knows? I'd say you probably couldn't tell the difference, but maybe someone else has an opinion on this.

As far as which lasts longer, it's really a matter of individual driving habits and how well you maintain the car. All things being equal, the stick probably has an edge here because of simpler design, but if you have a habit of finding reverse when you are trying to go into 4th, I'd stick with the automatic

lark6

Well, paisan, I'll have to take your word for it, never having driven an SVX. Does it really lend itself to auto-x though?

Oops, had to go back and edit to be relevant to WRX topic. Since everyone seems to think the 2.0l turbo is useless with an AT and below ~3000-3500 rpm, I'll never own one - that is, unless I no longer have to commute to work in Northeast Corridor traffic.

Ed

kostamojen2

The big problem with the SVX is that its an auto :P I would have got one, cause theyre cheap on the used car market, but I specifically wanted a Stick shift to learn it... Your case is different though of course.

I saw on Horsepower TV that theres a Hyper-link ECU plug in device that allows you to modify or turn off speed limiters. I dont know if this is availible for Subarus though, but it was cool cause you could reset it back to stock after you were done racing if you want

paisan

Nope it's definitely not an auto-xer. It's too heavy and not tossable enough for such things. It would make a great track car, and a grand tourer. For auto-x I'm gonna stick to the MX6 if I get an SVX, if I can't get ahold of an SVX, I'm gonna stick with the XT6. Ideally, a TC or SC 1st of 2nd gen RS (98-01) would probably be the best Auto-x Car.

-mike

mgreene1

http://www.movin2fast.com/htdocs/wwwboard7//wwwboard.html

 

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/threads/402638.phtml#464419

I haven't read the entire C&D article, but the point about the S4 being "easier to drive fast" probably refers to driving at the absolute limit (10/10ths). For spirited backroad driving (e.g., 8/10ths), the WRX is much more nimble and more confidence inspiring. Not sure what tires C&D was using, but my comparisons are based on same roads/conditions running Dunlop SP5000s on stock 16" WRX rims versus Dunlop SP9000s on stock 17" S4 rims.

Re: Dyno Tests...Have you ever wondered why these AWD cars can be so fast with "less" power to the wheels vs. FWD or RWD? http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/threads/401614.phtml#454581

For what it's worth: SVX top speed is 143 mph: http://www.subarusvx.com/specs.html

bedabi

I first read about the WRX in 1997 - about a sedan with a turbocharged AWD drivetrain and handling abilities - and thought to myself, "That's what I would want - a car with a little of everything. And, of course, I read that it wasn't sold in the U.S. except as a 165 hp RS with a fake hoodscoop that the president of SoA said had the sole "real" function of "styling".

Then the S4 came out and it looked pretty similar - a four door sedan with turbo'd engine and AWD. It was the only one of its kind here in the States. But for around $35,ooo? It looked like I would have to wait till I was well into my mid-life crisis to justify that kind of cost. (I'm 32 now.)

I ordered my WRX sedan before it even hit these shores and bought it on first allocation. One of it's main attractions to me was the fact that Subaru DID get stingy on the interior materials and options and put the cost of the car where it counts to me, that is, the drivetrain, especially the independant suspension. If the 6-CD changer had been an option that would've shaved the price down a bit, I probably would've left it out.

This being said, if I did have an extra $10,ooo lying around that wasn't already spoken for, hell yeah I would've jumped for an S4!

By the way, that movin2fast.com piece was a bit silly. The writer hadn't even driven a WRX or M5 before. And even an armchair racer should realize that comparing a $60,ooo M5 to a WRX is pointless.

Which brings me to this point: If I had $35,ooo lying around, hell yeah I'd get an M5!

bruticus

I shoulda figured it out on my own, but ah well.

DjB

paisan

#2601 of 2613 Remove the rev limiter by paisan Sep 01, 2001 (06:39 pm)

and it is no longer a stock vehicle.

There are a lot of things that you need to take into account for top speed:

1) SVX CD is much much much better than that of the WRX. At 110+mph the WRX has a cross section of a brick wall in comparison. At lower speeds, the CD isn't an issue.

2) Gearing. I'm not sure of what the gearing is on the WRX v. the SVX, but that could be a factor as well.

3) I just read somewhere that it was 156mph, that could be wrong. But I know it does 145-150mph, cause I've been in my aunt's SVX @ 145-150, didn't realize it was going that fast til my uncle said "hey check out the speedo for me" and I was like Holy Shoot!

-mike

paisan

But on a nice spirite drive during the pre-1st leg of a road rally today in CT, the WRX couldn't quite pull away from my uncle driving my XT6. And the WRX that we were running behind supposedly has 320hp (chip, exhaust, 17" rims, etc) a dealer from CT owned it. I think the guy was upset that my uncle was on his bumper like glue. I'm sure in a flat out race w/o curves, hills, etc, he'd whip us, but even at one spot we passed him.

-mike

barresa62

Once again, the manual tranny WRX does not have a cut off at 130mph. The auto version does. Yes, every new car has some sort of rev limiter once you reach the red line or a bit over. This is done to protect the engine. The top speed ratings for the WRX have been 143, the same, apparently, as the SVX.

Stephen

corkfish

But does'nt the XT6 have something like 145 horsepower?

paisan

145hp, 156lbs torque, 2850lbs. But it makes it's torque way down at like 1500rpms right up to 5500-6000rpms since it's an H6 and 2.7l. Top speed is only 118 on the XT6 as well.

-mike

paisan

Forgot this is the WRX-[non-permissible content removed] board. It is however WRX related.

-mike

sweet_subie

Now I am ready to buy one....for sure......

http://www.j-cars.net/newcar_5.htm

pfiffer

Life is too short to wait to own cars as good as the REX. Buy one now and trade it for the good-looker when she arrives! My opinion - you are right, that is a very chic front end for the REX!

qualityguy

It looks like this low-end torque is bothering some people too... (It was a long weekend, couldn't read anything for a while). Hey, guys, I don't want a Japanese Camaro, not even a Japanese Corvette - otherwise I would have gotten one from Rex Motors or whatever the name of this company is - they sell Skylines, some of them heavily modified. Camaro is an American Icon, there is only one replacement for it - a better Camaro from GM. I simply belive, that current Impreza platform is underpowered for the goals Subaru sets for itself and comparing to competition - all-wheel drive cars from Audi, BMW, Volvo(?) etc. I can say (and said), that it is possible to drive current stick WRX flawlessly through Manhattan traffic and in NY in general; it is just it is not right element for this car. This car is for winding backroads, for a light rally course (who will really take a brand-new (25+ +tax) car to a real rally? People who buy this car are mostly young people without deep pockets). I think, that Impreza must be 3L or 3.5L flat engine 6 cylinder car, with a supercharger slapped on (as the factory option, not dealer installed), for those extra perfomance minded. It must have Manumatic (or whatever the hell is name of those - every manufacturer has one now - but all have similarly sounding names). Turbos are still reliability risks, and whatever the fanfare is it the launch of the car, when we will read reviews of WRX 10 years from now, car magazines will say: "great car, blah-blah-blah, but try to get one, on which oil was changed religiously, blah-blah-blah". Bigger engine will give Impreza better overall performance, it will make it a more pleasant car to drive, even for those who like harsh drives, and it will position it really aganst the competition Subaru wants to fight - and they have all the cards in their hands to play it right. It's funny thing to say, but if life is about the right choices, lets hope that Subaru will make the right one - otherwise , as result of some weid corporate GM board meeting it will follow Oldsmobile path in some while. And the new car will be a better WRX - the one everybody wants (from whatever whoever said re. issue I raised - and speculation of what I want - everybody said they would like/love to have a car like that - trough and through modern, powefull, well-rounded - and for 24-28G's.) And this would be a car that would firmly plant Subaru on American sport/performance car map. And the one I would happily buy.

Also, re. stick - driving sports car, even being a God of stick, you still wear out clutch faster than if you drive in a "savings" mode - but what's the point of driving a performance car not a performance car? Clutches are not cheap nowadays; there are only few true "Gods" of stick; there c should be a compromise for it. There the whole bunch of new clutchless sticks in Europe now - may be they are the answer?

nschulman3

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. The engine in the wrx is about perfect for me. Sure, there could be more torque down low, but the car is smooth and easy to drive slow. When the road opens up or even for short bursts, the turbo power is a rush. People seem to forget what this car is all about. It is not about wings, off the line performance (although it is very good) big tires and a rough ride. It is about being just about the best all-around performance car you can buy for the money and drive every day. Even the 17" rims and tires are overkill. I live in a big city near New York and thoroughly enjoy the fact that I can fly over bumps and dips in the road without bending a rim or hitting the front spoiler, all the while doing this at speeds that would ruin most cars' suspensions. Then, when the road gets wet or slippery, the fun really starts. My recommendation- buy the car with the 16" tires, replace them with high performance rubber of the same size, get a speaker upgrade for the stereo and leave the engine alone. Also, perhaps consider getting the short-shift kit. I have owned my car for 1 month and that is all I wish to change. Believe me, I have experience. The car will ride rougher and while it may go faster, any minor engine upgrades will upset the perfect balance the car has and take away the everyday drivability of the car. My 2000 Audi tt is faster with the chip I installed, but the car drove better before I did anything.

kostamojen2

The REASON why the WRX is a 2.0 and not a 2.5 or even a 3.0 is because of Rally racing! The car that a rally car is based on CAN NOT have an engine over 2.0 litres!

Anyway, Quality guy, I think what you want is a Legacy B4 Blitzen, not a WRX :P

And Sweet_Subie, thats a 1.5 year old Spy drawing of the new Impreza... Its nothing new, and is NOT a pic of whats going to be done to the car!!! if anything will even be done, because its all JUST RUMORS! >:|

wrx_al

Yes, a small engine with a medium pressure turbo has its own power curve that one must adjust to in order to drive it optimally. As has been previously noted at least a hundred times before the WRX does not have real power until it is revving over 3000 RPM. The experienced WRX driver can choose which mode, economy or power, that they want to drive in. The low torque under 3000 rpm is not bothersome in economy mode since the objective is to get from point A to point B without unnecessarily high acceleration/deceleration. When power mode is desired the WRX driver simply keeps the engine over 3000 rpm and allows for a small initial turbo lag. When entering the freeway I want to be in the power mode to merge so I am in third gear which allows for fast acceleration up to 90 mph. This is handy for shooting for a gap in the crowded freeways in Northern California. Once on the freeway I go directly from 3rd to 5th and I am back in economy mode.

mjvchicago

Sweet Subie and others,

When would the WRX on the J-Cars site come to the states? The 2002 is a redesign, and that illustration looks too radical to be a tweak to the existing design. If it were a complete redesign, wouldn't it be here in something like 3-5 years? I hope I'm wrong, because that photo did look sweet!

barresa62

Get over it already! The WRX is what it is for a reason...as previously posted by many. As far as driving smoothly in traffic, there's no problem here in Seattle. We have the second worst rushhour traffic in the nation. Yes, NYC is a larger city but come drive our traffic in my WRX wagon 5spd and see what I mean. I also agree w/some of the other posters. What you want/need is the B4 not a WRX.

Stephen

barresa62

Ok, everyone..simma down naw! The photo on the J-car site is the same one that was released before the current WRX hit our shores. Can you say rehash? :-)

Stephen

pfiffer

Just got it in the mail, pits the BMW 330 xi vs. the Audi S4 vs. the WRX. I won't spoil the fun of the read but BUY THE MAGAZINE - REX does very well posting a new best 0-60 mph of 5.4 secs (this is the lowest number I've seen but was accomplished with clutch torture) and an ungoverned top speed of 142 mph.

barresa62

can't wait to read the article! :-)

Stephen

ramiller1

The WRX is one sweet ride and almost perfect just the way it is.
However, here is one upgrade that might really be worth looking into :-)

http://www.autoseattle.com/momo_shift_knobs.htm

(Just click on the thumbnails to see the close-ups.)

bedabi

Dayam!! Those are some good looking knobs! People, you've got to stop tempting me! How am I ever going to save enough for a new exhaust and chip? ;-]

crikey

...and it just makes me salivate even more for a WRX. A $25K car being compared to $40K cars and almost trumping both, just short of a point.

Isn't it strange that the Overall Rating is not the total of the tallied numbers. According to C&D, it is an independent judgment (on a 1-to-100 scale) that includes other factors-even-personal preferences-not easily categorized.

Then, what was the point of tallying numbers?

silver_bullet

... is nothing if not subjective. Many letters to the editor have asked the same question about their point system and their "subjective" ratings. Although the comparo with the S4 and 330xi is fun to read, and I'm sure it was fun for the C&D staff to conduct ("smoke that clutch!"), I wonder what their point is. While the basic layout and specs are similar, the German cars were designed for a different mission. Right now, the WRX doesn't really have a direct competitor in the U.S., IMO.

rex_ruthor

Has a bunch of tuner WRX's compared. All of which smoke the S4 or BMW. Some of them will beat the M3 and M5 as well, with quarters in the high 12's and 0-60 around 4.5.

With a few relatively simple and inexpensive external mods (exhaust, intake, chip) the WRX is down in the high 4's and low 13's. Not too shabby for about $1500.

Basically the WRX has unparalled tuner potential.

barresa62

wannawrx

Its like yeah they are all awd cars with performance but diff. price catagories. So why not compare a Ford GT to a Lexus GS430. Both rwd and fast but uhh..uhh. yeah thats all.

Stefan

I was taking to some people lately who bought an american car in Canada and brought it back to the states without duty.

I took a look at the Subaru Candada site and the MSRP in Canadian dollars is #34,995. Based on the current exchange rate the MSRP for the WRX wagon would be 22,459.00 U.S., fifteen hundred dollars under the MSRP here, plus you get the heated seats!

Have any of you bought a WRX in Canada? Are there any problems with getting the car registered in this country? Are there any duties that need to be paid? It looks like the only difference between the U.S. and Canadian speced WRX is the heated seats, are there any other differences?

Any info appreciated.

bluesubie

Although I agree that these cars aren't really in the same class, Subaru's own web page has BMW (325xi) and Audi (A41.8T)under "The Competition" at imprezawrx.com

I just picked up the C&D a few minutes ago, but haven't read it yet. The cover says "Unfair Fight: Subaru vs. ..."

They did score it above the BMW and only one point below the S4.

And yes, get the October SCC. Great WRX tuner coverage. The fastest one in the article belongs to Alex (Imprezer) of the i-club. It doesn't have a chip, but a TEC II (parallel engine management system) tuned by Vishnu Performance (Shiv Pathak of i-club and SCC project car fame).

Dennis

barresa62

Not the wisest decision for one very important reason. The US Subaru dealers will not honor the warranty. You would have to take the car back over the border for warranty work. Additionally, when it comes time to trade the car in on a new car, the dealer would run a check on the VIN # and see that it was a Canadian spec car. The dealer may or may not want to accept the trade-in. If the dealer did, it would be at a significantly lesser amount than a US Spec vehicle simply because of the difficulty at legally reselling said vehicle in the US.

The Canadian spec WRX's have heated seats and mirrors standard. Still have never gotten any answer from Subaru of America why this was either never made standard equipment in the US or offered as an option. Maybe Patti can shed some light on this irritating "mystery". I know I sure could use those heated seats and mirrors in Seattle. :-) Anyhow, hope the previous info helps.

Stephen

paisan

to buy the parts from a canadian dealer, and install them on the US spec car (heated seats and mirrors) although I do like the turn signals on canadian cars better than ours. Their orange is a more orangy color IIRC.

-mike

barresa62

In fact, I still have an unanswered e-mail to SOA about whether or not the seats and/or mirrors are pre-wired in the US-spec WRX. This would sure make it easier to install the heaters myself! The front seats already have zippers to take the covers off.

Stephen

paisan

You'll probably have to check for yourself, manufactuers don't like to give info like that away.
I'd bet they are pre-wired.
-mike

taos2

I've been vehicle shopping for about 4 months
and had narrowed things down to the 325xi
Sportwagon or the Audi A-4 Avant. I need the
AWD capabilities to chase the snow, was tired
of my Grand Cherokee V-8, wanted something more
fun to drive, and could afford to spend $35K.
I finally got worn out and fed up with both companies attitudes of if we can get it you'll
pay or someone else will. I began reading reviews and posts here of the WRX and got curious. After a couple of moderate test drives
I concluded the WRX Sportwagon was the best combination of performance and value for me.
I ordered one that was already on the way and was supposed to ship from Houston on Labor Day 9/3.
Finally making a decision was a relief. I was
scheduled for a 5 day driving vacation through
northern New Mexico, Colorado, into Wyoming. I
would relax and pick up my car when I returned.
On Friday, August 31st about 3 hours before I was planning to hit the road I get a call from my salesman telling me my car was here, could I take
it right away! Talk about luck.
I just returned from an 1150 mile trip that included just about every driving condition and situation imaginable. It was pure joy. This car
has exceeded every expectation I could conceive of. I knew it would be quick and fast. I had no
idea how smooth, quiet, and powerful this engine
and car would be on the highway and through the
mountains. The stock 16" Protenzas were perfectly balanced and wonderfully quiet at 80-100MPH. Plus it got 28mpg fully loaded with
two people. Besides having my new car unexpectedly for my trip, I now have a 6 day old
WRX completely broken in under ideal conditions.
BTW, break in parameters are not all that difficult on a road trip. Hell, 4000RPM in
fifth gear is 97MPH. I'm now going to change the
oil to Red Line synthetic and let her rip.
By the way, I'm a little out of the so called
WRX demo, I'll be 54 this ski season driving up
the Taos Ski Valley road with a big se grin!

bluesubie

Congrats and great review! 5-speed or Auto?

Dennis

sweet_subie

It is amazing.....Subie finished just below Audi S4........remember it finished second only because it lacked some amenities like power seats, moonroof etc.

I think WRX is a clear winner.

It also says hotter version STI comes in 2003 ?

pfiffer

When considering the price difference, realize that all Canadian WRX sedans listed at $34,995 come stock with the spoiler on the rear trunk. So for $1,500 less, you are getting the heated front seats and the spoiler, BUT, as previously mentioned, you will warranty issues.

paisan

Also wouldn't they have to pay the 15% Canadian Tax on the car? I'm sure canada would want it's chunk of tax $.

-mike

mrsample

I have thought of buying a vehicle from Canada too. This was about 9 months ago and the car was a Maxima. I had found a contact through another forum here on edmunds. He E-mailed me back with some facts that he discovered and has helped others go through this process for purchasing vehicles. He purchased another NISSAN not a Subaru. According to his statement was that the warranty for the Nissan would be honored here in the good ole USA. He saved quite a bit of money and stated that I could stand to save a substantial amount of green money too. In his experience that was the Canadians did require tax, however, they refunded that tax after returning to the USA in the mail. I still have that E-mail that he sent. He said to arrange the deal for the car and get VIN number first. it had some more info on needing to get emissions compliance letter from NISSAN wich is probably universal for all over the border purchases. That you stop at US Customs and pay a 2.5% duty and show copliance letter That you just register your vehicle in yer state and pay its taxes .
So the process seems rather simple to buy a vehicle. As metioned earlier that Subaru doesnt honor warranty work from Canadian purchases and the re-sale difficulties do add up to something that seems less attractive to me . He offered should I have any more questions that he would has more on the process. ssample@cwo.com

paisan

Won't your state charge you your normal state tax on a vehicle purchase? I know if you buy a car in NJ, and register it in NY, you need to pay DMV upon registration, the tax on the car.

-mike