Subaru Impreza WRX

thecat

Here's a link to the C&D article.

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Cara...unfairfight.xml

Subaru can be proud. I love the quote .. "We only decided to send it to the wolves after we looked at other similarly priced sedans and realized that matching them against the WRX wouldn't be a comparo, it'd be a slaughter. So we called in the German sharks."

-hutch

jregen7243

Is there a reason that Subaru doesn't offer a factory sunroof with the WRX or regular Impreza? I was at the dealer yesterday and the salesman said that it would ruin the structure of the car, and maybe in two years they would offer it. I know salesmen don't know anything. But does anyone have any ideas? Also, salesman said that for the '04 model year, they would have a coupe WRX. Again, I don't believe it but was still wondering if anyone else heard this.

Jon

paisan

For once the dealer is right the roof would make the car less ridgid. And they are talking about a coupe called an SVX in a few years.

-mike

varig

The one thing that has kept me from making a final decision of WRX or Audi A4 is the safety aspect. On paper, Audi seems to have the advantage. More air bags, ESP, brake assist, traction control. I've driven both cars. I like both cars. Perhaps if the WRX had the aforementioned features, it would be as expensive as an Audi. The only safety equipment my current car has is seat belts, so I am interested in my next car being a safe one (one reason that I want AWD). What's your opinion?

jk111

Subaru didn't put a sunroof because of the cross beams that goes over on the top of the roof. And if they put a sunroof, that will make the chasis a lot less regid. A pretty good deal if you ask me.

Going 80-100mph on a brand new car, ever heard of break in period? hehe.

paisan

Subies like to be broken in hard! I drive all my cars like I stole em from day one. no ill effects

-mike

mgreene1

The Audi would likely be a little bit safer in a collision but the WRX is no tin can. I had an S4 which felt more solid. Still, I feel very safe in the WRX and wouldn't let safety concerns sway me from getting the WRX. The brakes are excellent. One huge benefit of the WRX is the car is so well balanced that if you needed to abruptly toss it to avoid an accident, you would likely be able to maintain control better than in the Audi. Plus, the extra power of the WRX over the A4 might get you out of trouble. The S4's acceleration saved me a couple times and the WRX is pretty close to the S4 in performance.

kostamojen2

The WRX has one of the stiffest chasis of any car manufactured today. What that means is that it can take his and keep your butt alive! Ill take that over 27 air bags and "you dont know how to drive so I will drive for you" traction control :P

bradus

When I originally went looking at the WRX (in Massachusetts, USA), the dealership had a WRX on display with a sunroof already fitted. Granted, the roof was modified by a 3rd-party vendor, but its interesting how information can be different from one dealership to the next.

paisan

with a 3rd party moonroof if there was non-availbe from SOA because of structural integrity. I think the engineers @ FHI know their stuff pretty good, and if they feel the rigidity would be compromised by a moonroof, then I generally go with that.

-mike

p0926

"'you dont know how to drive so I will drive for you' traction control :P"

That's exactly how I feel about it too!

Re sunroofs: if the dealership had an aftermarket one installed they're of course not going to admit that the structural rigidity was compromised. However, I'm a bit skeptical with Subaru's argument against putting in a sunroof. I just can't understand how the WRX's design can be that much different from virtually every other model in the marketplace, all of which at least allow a sunroof as an option.

-Frank P.

paisan

It's not that it can't be done. It's that FHI decided to put the $ toward drivetrain, and suspension, etc. "I can't understand how the WRX's design can be that much different from virtually ever other model in the marketplace" well are there any other $25K AWD Turbo cars that have 227hp, and handle like a WRX? Now if they wanted to dump an additional $10K into the car, they could probably have designed one that has the same rigidity *and* has a moonroof, but they knew that then it wouldn't sell cause it would push them into S4 territory. Everything in life is a compromise and costs $.

I take it that those who don't like traction control also disable your air-bags, anti-lock brakes and a # of other features?

-mike

thecat

The new model Impreza had a dramatic increase in structural rigidity. Something like 147% increase, if memory serves me correctly. This increase was due, in large part, to the utilization of a "Ring-Shaped Reinforcement Frame", part of which connects the center pillar with the lateral roof and floor supports. Compromising or, even worse, eliminating of any portion of the "ring" can, and probably will, have significant impact on the integrity of the remaining portion. I'm a structural engineer and as much as I would like to have a sunroof ... I wouldn't do it to mine.

Having said that, I do have an aftermarket sunroof in my Forester .. but that's another story.

- Hutch

paisan

But the Forester does have the option of a sunroof from the factory, so it's not a matter of structural integrity IMHO.

-mike

p0926

Mike- Oh come on now, I don't think that modifying the design to allow a moonroof would cost 10K. But it's certainly refreshing to see you defending the value of the WRX for a change! Have you finally seen the light? :-)

And yes, I'm not a big fan of either ABS or airbags. IMO a good driver applying threshold braking can stop in a shorter distance and with better control than your avg driver with ABS. Regarding airbags, I know for a fact that they were designed for drivers who refuse to wear their seatbelts. IMO all of these "safety" devices are really just evidence of the dumbing down of the average driver. But of course since the avg driver is yacking on the cel phone and paying no attention to his/her surroundings, I can see the need for devices like this to protect the driver from him/her self.

-Frank P.

paisan

I too dislike ABS, and Air-bags, except that 95%+ of drivers aren't paying attention, so we need to protect them from their own idiocracy!

Probably wouldn't cost $10K, but you get my point, that they would need to put significant time and effort into keeping the weight down and rigidity up while incorporating a moonroof. For example, they could cut out a moonroof, and then add more structural materials in front and behind the moonroof, but that would weigh more, so they would need to then use lighter stronger material to do that, which in turn would cost more $.

I've never said the WRX wasn't the best value this side of an S4. I just don't like the lack of torque in the low end is all. If I could have an SOA 227hp '01 RS coupe with a 2.5l, and the rigidity of the WRX, I'd take that in a hearbeat over the current WRX.

-mike

PS: No airbags nor ABS nor traction control in my '88 XT6

bluesubie

"No airbags nor ABS nor traction control in my '88 XT6 "
Just those annoying automatic seat belts that
nearly chop your head off. :-)

Dennis

paisan

Well Gotta take the good with the bad. They never chop my head off though.

-mike

thecat

I got an email informing me that the link I posted in #2651 doesn't work. I've checked .. it is the correct URL .. but it won't work from the board. However, it does work from outside the board. Any "Techno's" have a clue why that would be? Find some way to copy that URL and use it "off the board". It's a great article.

hutch

pat

It looks to me like the link -- http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Cara...unfairfight.xml -- has dots replacing part of the address?

It doesn't work for me either clicking on it in your message, nor copying it from your message and pasting it into another browser window.

Perhaps this is what you've already done, but my suggestion would be to go to the correct webpage, then highlight the URL in the "Location" bar, right-click, and choose copy. Then come to a message window here, right-click and choose paste. That should get the address copied into your message exactly the way it should be.

I hope this helps.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

barresa62

The WRX should do quite well in crash tests and the real world on its own and compared to the Audi A4. The WRX has front and side airbags std and a super stiff body structure. No worries here, mate!

Wanted to share another quote from the Car & Driver (Oct) comparo test between the Audi S4 sedan, BMW 330xi, and Subaru WRX sedan.

"We're still arguing the Subaru's second-place finish. Two of the three voters put the Subaru in first place, with the Audi second. But one - and he'll remain nameless-put the Audi first and the Subaru last, so when we averaged the scores, the Subaru missed the top spot by just one point."

Oh yeah and the verdict: "If you can find a better $24,520 car, buy it"

All this is pretty lavish praise, but I have to agree being the objective owner that I am (ok, my tongue is permanently stuck to my cheek!) :-)

Stephen

jregen7243

I agree that having a sunroof would affect rigidity, however, almost every car out there has it available as an option. Why can you get a sunroof on a $18000 Corolla or Civic, but not on an $18000 Impreza??

bluesubie

Ever see a Civic or Corolla sedan compete in a Rally? ;-)

Prodrive had a hand in creating the new Impreza. I'm sure a sunroof was the last thing they were thinking about.

Dennis

paisan

If you try to race the corolla or the civic, it'll fall apart, or it will not perform as well as the Impreza. It's all trade-off. If you want the rigidity, @ a low cost, then you trade off sunroof. Why is there no GPS system in a $150K Ferrari 360? It's not a priority for them, they are out for performance.

-mike

barresa62

Thanks for all who are explaining the reasoning for no sunroof. I was all set to get on my rigidity soapbox! No, need now. You all are absolutely correct as to why there is no sunroof/moonroof. As a side note, I have seen a pic of a WRX wagon (I believe the STI version) on the SOJ website that shows a SMALL sunroof ahead of the main structural rollbar. It's probably a flip-up variety. I looked at it and all I could think of was "what's the point!"

Stephen

paisan

That's why they didn't put one in! No point to it being that small.

-mike

1subydown1togo

here is the full url

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2001/october/200110_comparisontest_unfairfight.xml

zorba52

Howdy,1st time at this thread,and sure would appreciate any and all feedback on a 86 XT Turbo,2dr sports coupe? I assume some of you may have owned one of these in the past,or maybe even own one now? Safety,funfactor,reliablility,parts availabilty ect. Don't know enough about the Sube line of the cars from the past,but thanks to these threads I'm getting quite an education. Thanks for your time and the great info here. Tony

paisan

Is it a 4wd AWD or FWD model? I have an XT6 which doesn' thave the turbo, but the body is similar. I love mine. and there are tons of parts for the 1.8T. You might want to post over in the subaru owner's club though.

-mike

silver_bullet

You'd think with the economy looking so bleak, a dealer wouldn't let a customer walk out the door, but that's not the case here in Houston. My local dealer has EIGHTEEN five-speed WRX sedans in stock, every color except yellow. I went in about a week ago ready to make a deal, and they refused to budge off MSRP. What idiots. Maybe they did me a favor, as I've decided to hold off buying a car until after the first of the year.

corkfish

I feel the same way. Although I'm sure I could get a deal lower than MSRP if I worked at it, I'll wait. I'd prefer to own something from a later production run anyway as any flaws in assembly and/or design will likely be resolved. There's also the other possibility that an enhanced version may be available next year ( slighly more horsepower?, a six speed?- hey you never know!)

varig

To quote the C&D article " So what's missing in the $25,000 car? Actually, it's not what's missing, it's what's there, and in the case of the Subaru, there's a lot of extra noise. The Subaru's sound levels were the loudest during all our decibel tests. "

So have any of you WRX owners noticed high noise levels, especially at freeway cruising speed?? I recall that one post said that the WRX was very quiet, while another said that the noise was as loud as the WRX commercial.

--- Moonroof --- A salesman told me that most imports (not Subaru or Honda) have 3rd party moonroofs installed at the port before they arrive at the dealer. That's why, according to the saleman, Subaru and Honda moonroofs are better those of other imported cars.... anyone believe this....

BTW, what do you want to bet that a moonroof is not available on the WRX next year.

Regarding stability control, air bags etc. Thanks for your input...The reason I am interested is that when I was a much younger and admittedly less mature driver, I had an accident in which I lost control of my car. The road was wet, I realized that I had to slow down going into a curve.... the car fishtailed a bit and kept going straight rather than negotiate the curve. I missed a telephone pole by about 6 inches. I was very fortunate. Now that it is time to replace my car, I am "obsessed" with researching what features would help me avoid such an accident. I know that technology cannot overcome stupidity, recklessness, or carelessness. The best way to arrive safely at your destination is to be a responsible and alert driver. However, that does not discount the idiots I see every day that are more engaged in their cell phone conversation, newspaper, or personal grooming from hitting me with their vehicle (most likely a monster SUV).
I also can't say enough about how important good tires are. But that's another topic.

Also in my area of the country, we are subject to several snowfalls each winter. Not enough to have a white winter, but enough to be annoying and create panic among the general driving public. I could categorize these drivers into 3 groups.
1. The "I can still drive like its the 4th of July" crowd. These usually are over confident SUV drivers. I wave to them as I pass their vehicle, stuck in a ditch
2. "I can't go faster than 10 mph" crowd. These people are worse than group 1. At least group 1 does not create traffic jams, especially on hills. This group enjoys not having enough momentum to go up a hill.
3. The rest of us.

So I want a car that does well in winter weather. That's why I'm only considering AWD. But I also wonder if ESP would also help to keep you going and not sliding vs. not having ESP.

pfiffer

Scott: Regarding the dealers being short-sighted - you may be right. It appears the economy is falling off the edge of a cliff and you feel you should get your REX at a discounted price. The dealers may see sales reports from other parts of the country and their state being robust and anticipate coming promotional items like the October C&D or Sport Compact Car article. They think they can hold pat at MSRP because they have something of special value. To quote the guys on my trading desk - "that's what makes a market" - we'll see whose right in 3 months!

D.J.: I own a 2002 REX with Bridgestone 730's and had a chance to drive the car with stock tires. The car with the stock tires was reasonably quiet. I traded in a 1999 Honda Accord for the REX and I thought the noise levels in the REX were a bit worse than the Honda, both with stock tires. With the high-performance tires, noise levels are increased substantially. From a noise-level standpoint, I would not call the REX a really good "long hauler" - especially when I compare it to our Toyota Sienna. But, this all depends on your ears! If you are really noise sensitive (as I am - and beginning to advance in years!) , the REX may upset you if you depend on it for continual long trips. The fact that we own another vehicle allows me to put up with the noise in the WRX in exhange for the best driving fun I've had in years!!!

Regarding driving safety, I agree with other comments indicating that safe driving is really the function of the driver, not so much the car. That doesn't mean driving slow but smart. Having said that, when the going gets fast, the REX sure does give you confidence. I recently had an experience where I entered an unexpected turn at a speed higher than I would normally have. The REX, with the Bridgestones 730's, just plowed right through with a bit of tire squeal. Had I been in my old Accord, I would have been ?????

wrx_al

There are some advantages of a smooth six cylinder engine, plenty of sound proofing, and possibly heavier, more vibration resistant, materials used in the BMW 330 and Audi S4. The WRX noise levels while cruising at legal highway speeds is low (with stock RE-92 tires). The car gets a bit noisy, however, during spirited driving when revving it in the 3000+ rpm range. I suspect an exhaust plumbing or heat shield resonance in the 3000-4500 rpm range since the car actually seems to get quieter at higher rpm's.

kostamojen2

Its not as quiet as any of the lux brands like Audi/BMW/Lexus and the like, but it will make almost every domestic $25k or less car, every civic and integra sound loud :P (If you want to see for yourself, go test drive a WRX, then a 2001+ Civic)

Personaly, I like a car that I can hear what its doing... Not blaring high-pitch loud like a civic or even low-pitch loud like a Mustang/F-body, but I do love the Boxer/Porsche sound

thecat

I guess it's true about one mans meat is another mans poison. When I read the C&D comment about noise it through me for a loop. Quite frankly, I think the car is too quiet. In a performance car, I think it's a "good thing" to hear the engine. I would like a little more engine noise. I find it hard to drive this car by engine sound alone. Is it an isolation chamber .. no .. but too noisy, I don't think so. I have actually caught myself riding along in 3rd thinking I'm in 4th. It isn't until I look at the tach that I realize .. ah .. ya need to shift. I've given some consideration to an aftermarket exhaust. Not for the performance increase but so I could hear the engine a little better.
Who'd of thunked it?

- Hutch

pfiffer

Given the last three comments you can see that noise levels are extremely subjective - there is no right, no wrong, particularly in this car. Hutch - you might find the exhaust helps a whole bunch. My dealer showed me a all aluminum model and I really loved the sound, just a bit louder at idle than the stock but a fair bit of volume when on the gas. It may be the cure for what ails you!!

mgreene1

My Subie dealer installed one two days ago. I like it! It's not a massive improvement since the stock shifter is pretty good to start with. Most people focus on how the shifter itself feels, but what impressed me the most was how well the shifter now coordinates with the clutch. It's now more seamless, e.g., a spirited 1-2 shift with the stock shifter will make the front end bounce but there is much less bounce with the short shifter. There are less expensive aftermarket shifters than the Subaru one, and I've seen some very complimentary reviews (e.g., Kartboy), but I plan to keep the WRX "stock" and appreciate not having any warranty concerns.

The short shifter has a little more notchy feel to it but it's a good kind of notchy like you get with a Miata. The Miata has the best shifting feel (more directly tied to tranny) but that's to be expected because it actually *is* more directly connected (less linkage).

The dealer was able to disarm the horn when you lock and unlock the car. You can still hear the doors lock and the lights blink. That beeping got on my nerves, especially in parking garages. BTW, the security alarm is fairly sensitive. A big clap of thunder shook the ground and set it off, but the brave little Mercedes (also armed) did not get upset.

As for the C&D comparo, here's a link. Some fool (I'm asserting 5th amendment rights) poked fun at the WRX and the S4, but the comments were accurate even if they were a bit over the top. The S4 gang took it in stride and made some perceptive comments, especially about the difficulty of comparing the cars directly. To be honest, I think their counterpoints were well taken.

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/threads/403458.phtml#471583

sweet_subie

mgreene1:

You can take off the horn feature or bring it on whenever you want.

1. Keep doors open.
2. Press Lock & unlock button simultaneously.
3. It will beep.

If you had the horn feature on, it is turned off now or vice versa.

twrx

hutch, agreed that the wrx is not a noisy sportscar. That was the big shock for me when I took delivery of mine--it is so quiet and refined that you really don't notice how fast you are going. I'm getting bored with car magazine complaints with "noise" and "cheap interior" in the WRX. They have to have something to complain about but when was the last time you read complaints about a cheap interior in a Honda? I have owned 7 Hondas in my life and the new WRX is as nice inside as any of them including my most expensive one which was an Accord EX. I did one 350 mile day so far in the WRX and it was quiet at 70 mph, smooth riding and those fantastic front seats keep you feeling good for the long haul. comparing it to my wife's 98 RS, it is much quieter, better seats and better front leg room.

As to the safety issue which was raised some time ago. I suspect that the WRX is extremely safe. The active safety of the 4 wheel disk ABS with the AWD together with the new chassis should be enough. But add in the front and side airbags... Remember how good the legacy scored with the insurance industry test? In their review of the legacy they noted that Subaru had used the results of previous tests to engineer a far safer car. If you look at a WRX brochure you will see a picture of Subaru's in house test of the WRX. Is it any surprise that WRX in the picture is running into an offset barrier like the insurance institute test does?

TWRX

jk111

"Ever see a Civic or Corolla sedan compete in a Rally? ;-)"
About rally, you guys never heard of the Corolla rally car? You do know that there are Focus rally cars too right.. hmm.. most of the the famous rally cars are compact cars. I think Subaru reinforced the chasis so they can brag about it, not because it is a rally car. They use a whole bunch of cage reinforcements in rally cars anyways. So it doesn't really matter what they use in production cars.

pfiffer

Would anyone have first hand experience with dedicated snow tires for all-wheel-drive sedans like the WRX? I am considering taking my RE92s (in my garage) and swapping them for the Bridgestone Blizzak LM22 or the Michelin Pilot Alpins, both which are H speed rated. Any comments/feedback would be greatly appreciated!!

soobydoo

Have any of you noticed the rough idling on the 2002 Impreza WRX? Is this normal?

kostamojen2

Subaru reinforced the chasis of the Impreza because of not only rally purposes, but for ride-quieting and comfort, and above all, saftey.
Subaru, like Volvo, takes great pride in saftey these days.

The rough idle of the WRX is standard in all Subaru boxer engines that ive been in.

nschulman3

My wrx idles very roughly and I wondered about it too. However, it seems it is indigenous to the car and/or engine. Regarding the snow tires, I can only say that the Michelin Pilot Alpins and the Bridgestone Blizzak LM22 snows will help, but if you can, try to get your hands on a set of Vredestein snow tires. I have them on my audi tt and they are incredible! I plan on putting them on my wrx in a few months. The only caveat is that they are only sold at Eurotire, which is convenient for me since I live in New Jersey and that is where they are located. As far as I know, you can't get them anywhere else. even TireRack recommends them, although they don't supply that tire.

beygo

Our WRX's factory alarm is too sensitive. When I park my BMW 318ti (w/ stock exhaust) next to it, the alarm goes off. The dealer says they can't adjust the senstivity settings. Is this true? Anybody know where to get instructions on lessening the alarm's senstivity?

Thanks.

Bey

thecat

I think your dealer is .. ah .. misinformed.
The following is a cut & paste from the I-Club.

You can adjust the sensitivity by finding the control unit which is under parking brake handle under the plastic. This is what it says in the instructions for the alarm:

1. Carefully remove the seal covering the the shock sensor adjustment hole on the top of the security control module.

2. Using a #0 flat-tip screwdriver, CAREFULLY AND GENTLY adjust the sensitivity.

Clockwise - INCREASES sensitivity

Counterclockwise - DECREASES sensitivity

3. With each adjustment of the control, retest the shock sensor (leave the window down and hit the steering wheel). To determine if the desired sensitivity has been reached.

4. Upon completion of the sensitivity adjustment, place a small piece of electrical tape over the sensitivity adjustment hole to prevent dust and/or other foreign material from entering the unit.

You might also check the following link to the installation instructions for the system.

http://subaruparts.com/install/2002isecsys.pdf

Please post your results if you pursue this. Good Luck

- Hutch

brainslosh

Our WRX's factory alarm is too sensitive. When I park my BMW 318ti (w/ stock exhaust) next to it, the alarm goes off. The dealer says they can't adjust the senstivity settings. Is this true? Anybody know where to get instructions on lessening the alarm's senstivity?

Are you sure your WRX isn't just sensitive to being parked next to the BMW because it doesn't like it? Another WRX should keep it happy. :-)

pfiffer

Possibly you could take this up with my wife - your astute insight would clearly be further grounds for a WRX hatchback to replace our mini-van - would make my Blue Rex a happy guy!

cupholder1

Has anyone factored in the cost of insurance for this vehicle? I have used Internet insurance sites to compare the WRX against boring Grandpamobiles like the Taurus, and the WRX is A LOT more expensive. Even against the Passat, the WRX is a lot more expensive. But the WRX still comes out cheaper against cars like the Camaro or Mustang Cobra.

My current insurance company doesn't even have a separate quote for the WRX. My agent said they'd just quote me on the Impreza and add to the premium based on the higher MSRP...

Anyhow, what worries me is that with all the 20-somethings out there who will be crashing this into telephone polls at 100 mph, the insurance prices are bound to skyrocket in Camaro land, which would turn this relatively inexpensive car into something quite costly to own, coupled with the premium gas requirements...