Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy

Black-armband day for me today...51 years ago today, the last production-line U.S.-built Studebaker car (e.g., Lark-type or Hawk) was built. The New York Times yesterday had an article about the last Avanti, which was really the last U.S.-built Studebaker car as it was finished a week or so later. Avantis weren't built on a regular 'line'.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/20/automobiles/the-note-in-the-trunk-of-the-last-studebaker-avanti.html?_r=0

uplanderguy

Here's the last "regular production" car, in the Studebaker National Museum with 28 miles:

http://www.rokemneedlearts.com/carsindepth/wordpressblog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/StudeDaytona.jpg

When I first bought my '64, and also later with my '66, I liked the crowned front fenders from the driver's seat, which reminded me of driving my parents' '74 Impala as a teenager (although the crowns were larger on that car, as was everything else).

You can see Fozzie Bear's bullet-nose Stude behind the '64 in the pic.

uplanderguy

Here's the interior of that NOS '64 Studebaker, last off the 'regular' production line. It's an R1 (Avanti engine, no supercharger) and 4-speed:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sjb4photos/7143685955/

fintail

Red on red on red on red on red.

60s interior design was excellent.

uplanderguy said:

Here's the interior of that NOS '64 Studebaker, last off the 'regular' production line. It's an R1 (Avanti engine, no supercharger) and 4-speed:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sjb4photos/7143685955/

uplanderguy

The red Daytona, last one, was ordered for a customer. Studebaker filled that order with a car in inventory, adding and subtracting options, and kept the last car for its historical collection, a couple years later donating it to the City of South Bend. Here's a story about how the selling dealer never had any idea that happened until he heard about the museum car decades later, with his name on the window sticker. I do think it's a little sad he was not allowed to sit in the car at the museum:

http://articles.mcall.com/2005-07-24/news/3625494_1_boyer-bros-studebaker-national-museum-berks-county

uplanderguy

Just stumbled on this blog from Sept. 2014, about Avanti-powered Lark Daytonas, like my wife and I owned:

http://news.boldride.com/2014/09/1963-studebaker-lark-daytona-late-in-life-but-early-in-the-game/56961/

fintail

That blue one with the white roof is pretty attractive. The drag race video is cool too. The article mentions a good point, a shame these cars came around as the company was on its last legs.

About the museum, I am surprised - it's not like the car is a Bugatti Royale or something. Weird power trip perhaps.

berri

Studebaker did a good job with some old platforms thanks to guys like Brooks Stevens doing updates on a shoestring. Maybe their diversification into things like STP helped them hang on by keeping some cash flow coming in. But in the long run I think the South Bend union militancy made it difficult for Studebaker to survive long term because it inhibited product investment. You can only go so long, and do so much without new product. It's a shame those new Studebaker Spectre concepts couldn't make it to market. I believe they were targeted for 66 or 67. The AMC Rambler got a nice boost from it's updated '63 Rambler.

uplanderguy

I think the '63 Rambler styling was a huge improvement over the "Iron Curtain" look of the '62! Still, they didn't offer a two-door hardtop in their Classic or Ambassador lines, and even the Classic line didn't have a V8 of any size until halfways through the model year. I believe Studes of the era, generally, are higher-regarded by collectors today than concurrent Ramblers, and prices tend to reflect that.

Studebaker still had buildings dating from the wagon-making days of the late 1800's in 1963, and until the late '50's, their workforce actually made more than Big Three UAW autoworkers, which is ridiculous. They had a reputation for going years without a strike. In '62, with a sales upturn, they took a strike which cost them 38 days of production and during which supposedly their CEO, Sherwood Egbert, came to blows with a line worker.

berri

Studebaker definitely has a large national old car fan base. AMC's base seems more concentrated in the Midwest I think. Don't call 'em Kenosha Kadillac's for no reason.

uplanderguy

What a sleeper! I've seen this car in person...it is the only R3 engine installed at the factory in a Lark-type car new. '64 Commander Super Lark. Rated at 335 hp, but most feel that number is under-reported. The owner is a documentation-sleuth as well and had communicated with the zone rep from the Albany, NY area where the car was ordered, who had told him the original owner ordered the car without the R3 fender and grille emblems and was mad that the car was delivered with them. NPR played audio of the car from the Studebaker Drivers' Club international meet in South Bend some ten or so years ago. I think the car has a more modern vibe than other compacts being built the same time. Definitely trimmed-out like a grocery getter. Disc brakes, 4-speed, and all the suspension bits.

http://www.ohioconcours.com/2001/mu-01-1592.jpg

uplanderguy

My very favorite Studebaker model and year of all, and I'd hope to one day own one like it:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tebphotos/4260981186/

berri

I agree with you Uplander on the GT Hawk, except I preferred the lighter colors like white, gold, etc.

uplanderguy

I know it was an old platform, but I actually prefer the GT Hawk to the '53. Some of it is my age probably. I like them in gold too. White seems like the number one Studebaker color in the sixties for some reason so I like that less, even though I owned a white Studebaker Lark.

berri

I liked the Hawk GT better than the Avanti, but I think the Avanti is one of the best looking gold colored cars produced. That shade just really seemed to work on it.

uplanderguy

I agree, gold is a natural on an Avanti. Most '63 ads show it in that color too. A lady friend of mine bought one new while in college and I helped her find the car about three years back, although it was in ratted-out condition. After she and her husband flew around the country to look at eBay ones over-represented, they found one only 90 mins. from their home in beautiful condition--a gold '64. They didn't know at the time they bought it, but I told them it was built on the last day Avantis were assembled (12/26./63) and is only nine serial numbers from the final Studebaker-built Avanti. This lady's pic was in the dealer magazine for being the first woman owner of an Avanti in North Dakota.

I'm with you...even though it's 'older hat', I like the GT Hawk better than the Avanti though. Even Studebaker used "classic" in the GT's advertising.

I'm glad they resisted the urge to have a lot of 'fussiness' down the sides, or throw fender skirts on it.

The Hawks still had pedals through the floor, master cylinder under the floor, and the front fender vents, but somehow the car pulled it off I think. Magazine reviews of the car were positive. On the flip side, you could get discs, an automatic trans that could be held in first, second, or third gear, full instrumentation (all in front of the driver; no tach on the floor, strapped to the steering column, or out on the hood...LOL), reclining seats, inside hood release, etc.

uplanderguy

Interior of a '64 Gran Turismo Hawk--fantastic instrument panel IMHO:

http://www.wallpaperup.com/uploads/wallpapers/2014/06/15/369976/e844e3c5c9255d23ff4954bac267c74a.jpg

uplanderguy

Interior of a '64 Avanti, nice to my eyes:

https://img.mecum.com/auctions/FL0109/FL0109-77049/images/FL0109-77049_3.jpg

fintail

The 60s were probably the pinnacle of interior design.

uplanderguy

I will say, one minor thing on Avantis that always bugged me, was the way they did the "S" emblem (as on the door in the above photo). I always called it the "Flintstone 'S'". LOL

fintail

Isn't that like the general "Studebaker" font of the period? Kind of reminds me of a runic "S", but I doubt that was the intent.

uplanderguy

This is the typical 'circle S' used on hood ornaments, and also stationery, of that late period. The block lettering like this was also used on stationery.

http://cartype.com/pics/6719/full/studebaker_commando_ho_4_64_s.jpg

uplanderguy

In honor of the Super Bowl (zzzzzz), for a few days I'll leave my pic as Studebaker president Sherwood Egbert holding a football in a '64 Avanti commercial.

lemko

1952 Studebaker Commander convertible at the 2015 Philadelphia International Auto Show.

lemko

1961 Studebaker Transtar carrier with a 1956 Ford wagon.

lemko

1961 Studebaker Transtar carrier with a 1956 Ford wagon.

uplanderguy

Thanks very much lemko for posting these pics!!!!

I feel that I've seen the Transtar before, probably at a Studebaker Drivers' Club national meet. And, a '56 Ford is probably tied with a '61 Starliner as my favorite-year Ford of all!

Recall that International Harvester picked up the "Transtar" name after Studebaker stopped building trucks in the 1964 model year

I have a friend in Akron who has a '52 Commander V8 convertible like the green one you photographed, except his is a soft yellow.

Thanks again for posting.
.

lemko

uplanderguy said:

Thanks very much lemko for posting these pics!!!!

I feel that I've seen the Transtar before, probably at a Studebaker Drivers' Club national meet. And, a '56 Ford is probably tied with a '61 Starliner as my favorite-year Ford of all!

Recall that International Harvester picked up the "Transtar" name after Studebaker stopped building trucks in the 1964 model year

I have a friend in Akron who has a '52 Commander V8 convertible like the green one you photographed, except his is a soft yellow.

Thanks again for posting.
.

No problem! I thought you'd like them.

berri

So Lemko, as a GM man was that any influence on showing a "Ford" being towed - just kidding!

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

Thanks very much lemko for posting these pics!!!!

I feel that I've seen the Transtar before, probably at a Studebaker Drivers' Club national meet. And, a '56 Ford is probably tied with a '61 Starliner as my favorite-year Ford of all!

Recall that International Harvester picked up the "Transtar" name after Studebaker stopped building trucks in the 1964 model year

I have a friend in Akron who has a '52 Commander V8 convertible like the green one you photographed, except his is a soft yellow.

Thanks again for posting.
.

My folks had a '51 Commander V8 sedan in the same color as your friend's 'vert. I don't remember a whole lot about the car (I was only 2 years older than it was) but he loved it and talked about it long after he traded it off.

uplanderguy

bhill2, '51 was the first year of the Stude V8, several years before some other makes one would think would've had a V8 first. Although there were some teething issues, the Stude V8 is a sturdy engine--see March's "Hemmings Classic Car".

My Stude dealer friend said this not too long ago about his old '51 V8: "It would sure go, but boy it would barely stop!". LOL

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

bhill2, '51 was the first year of the Stude V8, several years before some other makes one would think would've had a V8 first. Although there were some teething issues, the Stude V8 is a sturdy engine--see March's "Hemmings Classic Car".

My Stude dealer friend said this not too long ago about his old '51 V8: "It would sure go, but boy it would barely stop!". LOL

Yes, apparently my Dad bought the car (lightly used) from someone who was worried about its reputation for having "soft lifters". Dad's mechanic told him that it wasn't that hard to fix, so he bought the car for a good price. To the best of my knowledge he had no problems in the 4 years or so that we had it.

fintail

This is hanging around the local CL - probably steep

bhill2

fintail said:

This is hanging around the local CL - probably steep

I'm sorry, but there is something about a GT Hawk with a column-mounted automatic that is just WRONG!

berri

Well, you need to take a broader, societal perspective. If the girlfriend had a well padded butt, it would assist in necking while driving

bhill2

berri said:

Well, you need to take a broader, societal perspective. If the girlfriend had a well padded butt, it would assist in necking while driving

Well your point's well taken, but it still has buckets with a console, so the shifter position doesn't really help. What you wanted was a bench seat and a floor shift. Shifting into 4th gear could take your relationship to a new level.

uplanderguy

Thanks for posting, fintail. I like the 1963 Blue Mist color. I think he's several thousand high on price, though.

I love the cars so can nitpick details, but the upholstery's wrong, the wheels aren't off-white behind the wheelcovers (yes, even that bugs me! LOL), and it doesn't have the metal decklid overlay and those nameplates there don't belong. I've heard that good metal overlays are hard to find for those cars as they are thin and dent easily. They re-tooled the decklid to make it smooth for '64, and I like the '64 best of all GT Hawks.

All GT Hawks had bucket seats and console, but I agree, I like the floor-shift automatic so much better!

At least this car has the tach. Without one, that whole 1/3 of the gauge cluster was just blank...not even a phony gauge there...just that woodgrain panel. Ugh!

uplanderguy

Here's the nicest Blue Mist '63 GT I've seen:

http://www.gentrylane.com/s/domestic-inventory/sold-domestic/1963-studebaker-hawk-gt

As of a year ago, about fifteen miles from me, is a Blue Mist '63 GT with R1 (non-supercharged) engine, the complete "Super Hawk" package (suspension upgrades on top of just the engine), but it was above my pay grade for what it needed. At least it's being stored inside.

The supercharged engine adds almost 50% to the selling price, according to a Stude eBay seller who's sold almost 1,000 Studes there over the years. The price guides are just off in that regard...mostly because there are so few that are out there to be sold, particularly outside of the Studebaker Drivers' Club.

BTW, the link's production numbers are wrong...way-wrong.

uplanderguy

This R2 '63 GT sold on eBay yesterday for $22,300--a 4-speed car. Although the white is blah I think, it's nicely-equipped and seems a lot better buy than the one discussed above. This white car was built in Champagne Gold per the build sheet, has black wheels instead of off-white (minor of course), and has "TT" (Twin Traction) emblems on the gas filler door, not used on '63's. Also has a '62 grille insert and grille shell with the hood ornament, which '63's didn't have. All minor stuff. It doesn't have the "Avanti Supercharged" fender badges which I would like, but those weren't added to the cars until spring '63 so not sure if this car never had them, or if new fenders got put on and the emblems left off.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-Gran-Turismo-Hawk-Paxton-Supercharger-1963-studebaker-gran-turismo-hawk-4-speed-paxton-/251809600592?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3aa1059450&item=251809600592&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

lemko

Dig this! Here's a Chevrolet-Studebaker dealership on Bustleton Avenue in Philadelphia in 1922!

uplanderguy

Thanks for posting lemko; what an unusual combination of cars to sell under one roof!

I think we discussed this photo here before, but here's a '62 photo of a Philly Stude dealer's used car lot, with a big portion of European cars:

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/57classic/media/keenanmotors.jpg.html#/user/57classic/media/keenanmotors.jpg.html?&_suid=1423133243445029054146700784106

fintail

Hmm I see what the most valuable thing there is today. No fintails (maybe too new), 3 Pontons, T-Bird. MGA, capitalizing on the "foreign/sports" car craze/

uplanderguy said:

Thanks for posting lemko; what an unusual combination of cars to sell under one roof!

I think we discussed this photo here before, but here's a '62 photo of a Philly Stude dealer's used car lot, with a big portion of European cars:

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/57classic/media/keenanmotors.jpg.html#/user/57classic/media/keenanmotors.jpg.html?&_suid=1423133243445029054146700784106

uplanderguy

I do think that for whatever reasons, Studebakers in their later years appealed to some of the people who liked foreign cars. Even my little hometown dealer sold M-B (a natural, but not all Stude dealers sold M-B), Simca and Sunbeam. When I was at the archives of the Studebaker National Museum, I saw at least two if not three Benzes that had been traded on '64-65-66 Studebakers at my hometown dealer. I should note that my dealer friend told me they had their M-B franchise pulled from them for insufficient sales in our town of under 10K; I do think in a small town some folks bought the dealer as well as the make. But I recently heard of a college professor somewhere in the 'States who had a Benz and had bought a new '64 Daytona Hardtop for his wife.

uplanderguy

Mentioning '64 Daytona Hardtop above, here's one I like that is supercharged, asking price $30K. It sold, but I do wonder how close to the asking price it sold for. I do think the silver color is bland, but I like the size and character and rarity of these cars. I hope to own another like it sometime.

http://www.cars-on-line.com/photo/55400/64stude55416-4.jpg

fintail

Studebaker definitely went after people who thought American cars were too big and overdone, and had at least mild success with that. The relatively clean styling helped too - I do think they at least subconsciously were influenced by MB. At the time, MB wasn't an insanely expensive ostentatious make, rather just quality and engineering based - a nice fintail cost about the same as a Buick, not a loaded Caddy. Prices went up fast with the V8 models at the end of the 60s, and the open cars were always somewhat expensive.

berri

IIRC, MB didn't jump up prices until Nixon deflated the US dollar and GM and Ford started to chintz out on Cadillac and Lincoln. That would put it in the mid 70's or so? I always liked most 60's and 70's MB because their styling was just clean rather than overwrought. A lot of them are like a 63 Buick Riviera in that they still look attractive and modern today.

uplanderguy

You know it's funny, for a long time I went along with the somewhat-common thought that the '63 Riviera was a timeless design. A few years ago I decided I didn't like it that much. Had those fake scoops, didn't think the taillights that great, had inboard headlights and those 'Chinese lantern' corners up front. Interior was great, even though you got a P-N-D-L-R trans in a car in that price range. I do think the small details I don't like were cleaned up for the '65 model.

uplanderguy

One thing I like about the '64 Daytona as in a few posts above, is to my eyes there's not an ounce of fat in that styling. Some people comment that the rear-end looks tall, but it doesn't bother me. I like the taillights with mirror-image backup lights underneath.

lemko

uplanderguy said:

Thanks for posting lemko; what an unusual combination of cars to sell under one roof!

I think we discussed this photo here before, but here's a '62 photo of a Philly Stude dealer's used car lot, with a big portion of European cars:

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/57classic/media/keenanmotors.jpg.html#/user/57classic/media/keenanmotors.jpg.html?&_suid=1423133243445029054146700784106

Keenan Motors was at 3322 North Broad Street on the SW corner of Broad and Ontario. Temple University has its Health Sciences Center on this site now.

isellhondas

uplanderguy said:

You know it's funny, for a long time I went along with the somewhat-common thought that the '63 Riviera was a timeless design. A few years ago I decided I didn't like it that much. Had those fake scoops, didn't think the taillights that great, had inboard headlights and those 'Chinese lantern' corners up front. Interior was great, even though you got a P-N-D-L-R trans in a car in that price range. I do think the small details I don't like were cleaned up for the '65 model.

63-64-65 Rivieras all used a different transmission.

I agree, 1963 wasn't the best in that series.