White steering wheels - although I know American cars did them for many years, they were a big MB thing in the 50s and 60s. My car has one, but years ago, a tight dark grey leather cover was put on, possibly by the original owner, During the past half century, the wheel has become discolored under this. I haven't found a place yet to refurbish the wheel, so I leave the cover on. Sometime, I would like to have the white wheel, as it is a MB hallmark of the era, and is a period touch.
The headrest note is interesting too - MB also had these, as accessory items, rare, when found, sometimes only on the passenger seat. They had loop style brackets and are eye-catching:
I know Studebaker has a very strong and supportive club. However, I wonder if you wait 10 years whether prices will be down. Many who remember them will probably not be in the market anymore?
Oh, no doubt. I think that is already happening to an extent with '50's cars. The supply for sale will be up in ten years, for apparent reasons.
People are often surprised what certain Stude models have brought in auctions the past several years; easy to remember how cheap they were as used cars.
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That Cruiser reminds me that I'm unable to think of another car of that period where the entire dash was padded; i.e., the bottom of the dash wasn't hard metal.
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Now that I blow up the dash pic, I'm seeing rusty spots on the turn signal lever and shift lever, which seems like it might not indicate the world's best storage over the years...ugh.
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Regarding values, some will fall, some will be strong. Mid century modern is a huge thing now and it won't fade away overnight - design icons like the 53 Speedster and various Hawks etc will hold value or maybe even appreciate a bit. But a plain 1952 sedan or similar, it's downhill from here.
Very clean and authentic '55 sedan at Barrett-Jackson coming up. Nice to see correct-size tires and original-style widewall width and placement on a car.
That's a pretty car. I wonder if it has original finishes, as the ad is all about preservation. It'll be interesting to see what it brings, as this is a mid 50s normal car that might start losing its enthusiast base as time moves on, like cars 10-20 years older have already.
For as long as I've been really into Studes (about 27 years), these '53-55 sedans and '59-60 Larks are the 'no respect' cars even among Stude folks--generally. When I look at this one though, I realize that the sedans are only 'not sharp' compared to the coupes and hardtops. I think the styling would stack up well, for clean lines, against Big Three sedans of the same time period--leaving Chevy out of the equation of course!
It seems like Golden Hawks, and R-engined Larks and GT Hawks, as well as bone-stock Avantis in near-perfect shape, are what people have been buying the past few years at decent prices...Golden Hawks, especially, and I'm really not crazy about those. I think it's a function of my age though.
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My old car book lists the '55 President sedan as being offered in two trim levels: the $2311 Deluxe an the $2381 State. Any way to tell which trim level this one is? I love the colors on it.
If that car is mechanically as ready as it looks, I'd have paid the $12.1K for it that it apparently sold for recently. Andre, that car is the Deluxe. The 'State' has skirts, back up lights, fog lights (ugh), and a plusher interior with gold metal-like trim on the door panels and a center armrest in rear.
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That '64 Cruiser didn't garner a single bid. Someone suggested on the SDC forum that had he posted a starting bid of $2,500 and a reserve of $5,750 he'd have probably done better. Lots of game-playing/psychology involved of course.
Someone who knows the car told me it does not have factory broadcloth interior, but the owner took care in using the factory pattern and buttons when reupholstering. Also, I guess the car is not black but a very dark brown, a non-factory color. That bugs me some, but I'm told the previous owner did good work on the car.
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IIRC those mid 50's Studebaker 4 dr sedans were smaller than the big 3 but priced the same or higher? If so, might explain their lack of success? Personally, I kind of liked their bit different greenhouse, but really liked the Conestoga wagons of that period.
Studes of that era were narrower, and I believe lower to the ground, than Big Three sedans. However, wheelbase length was about the same, or even longer. That '55 sedan, being a President, was on the long wheelbase--120.5", as were the coupes, hardtops, and Hawks. That was longer than Big Three large cars for a long time. Even the gargantuan '71 full-size Chevys were on a 121.5" wheelbase, an inch longer than the Stude sedan shown.
I think the narrowness and lowness made Studes seem smaller than they were.
I have heard, like you, that they were generally more expensive than the "Low Priced Three" of the period,.
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Here's a video of the recent Australian Studebaker national meet, and my old Stude (sig pic) makes an appearance at around 9:30 in the video (you can fast-forward to that), and at about 10:00 the owner mentions my name! I have never met nor spoken with the current owner--I sold to the Brian fellow the owner mentions.
The guys are putting a water pump on the car. I put, I think, three of those on that car in my 23-year ownership.
I do miss that car. Non-Stude folks were frequently surprised at the factory sunroof. The original owner's wife told me once that her husband liked to have gas station jockeys check the oil as they'd frequently comment on the chrome engine parts of the R1 engine.
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In 1955, I think Chevy, Plymouth, and Ford were all on a 115" wheelbase, so even the "standard" Studes on the 116.5" wheelbase were a bit longer. The 120.5" wb was more in range with the "step-up" cars...Mercury (119"), Dodge (120") and Pontiac (122-124").
I do remember Consumer Reports commenting on the Studebakers from around 1955 as being notably narrower inside than competing Big Three cars. I wonder what the shoulder room measurement was on the typical Studebaker sedan from that era? I don't think even the "standard sized" cars were as big as we might think. I seem to remember Ford bragging about the '57 models having 59 inches of shoulder room. Plymouths were wider, but by that time Mopar was using the same basic body shell for Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto/Chrysler, so Plymouth benefitted a bit from that. I took a tape measure to my DeSoto once, years ago, and I think it was around 62" across. But, I dunno if that would've been at the "official" shoulder room measurement spot. With 4-doors, they might take the measurement right at the B-pillar, and the trim is going to cut into the measurement. On my car, I measured it from door panel to door panel.
Studebaker was notorious for an overly aggressive UAW which I think kind of boxed them in on pricing. Actually, AMC had some of those issues on and off as well. Old man Romney seemed to be able to work with them after he took over, but when he left it started back up at times. I sometimes wonder if FCA is going to run into that same dilemma in the US now? Over time that runs a company into the ground. I just don't see FCA being able long term to work on an even UAW contract with Fomoco and GM. I think FCA is buying share right now with much more generous incentives. That combination long term can be lethal as business history has shown over and over again.
I have a '63 Studebaker brochure handy here. Now, the longest sedan they made that year was only on a 113-inch wheelbase, but I'd think the width would be comparable with earlier, longer Stude sedans. It shows shoulder room, front, of 54.875", quite a bit narrower than big '50's cars. It shows shoulder room, rear, of 55", hip room front of 60.2", hip room rear of 60", effective head room 43.7"/41.9", max. leg room front of 39.25", minimum effective rear leg room 27.5". That is all of the interior dimensions noted. Overall length of the four-doors were 188".
We always had Chevys when I was growing up, but the center humps in my Studes were small compared to Big Three, a nice thing I think.
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The trim dimensions are one thing that drew me to Studes--I can't think of a fat-looking Stude, although that probably wasn't a sales benefit back then. They seemed to be sort-of mid-sized cars, generally.
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Here's a video of the recent Australian Studebaker national meet, and my old Stude (sig pic) makes an appearance at around 9:30 in the video (you can fast-forward to that), and at about 10:00 the owner mentions my name! I have never met nor spoken with the current owner--I sold to the Brian fellow the owner mentions.
The guys are putting a water pump on the car. I put, I think, three of those on that car in my 23-year ownership.
I do miss that car. Non-Stude folks were frequently surprised at the factory sunroof. The original owner's wife told me once that her husband liked to have gas station jockeys check the oil as they'd frequently comment on the chrome engine parts of the R1 engine.
I really enjoyed the video. Didn't realize your Lark also had AC---sunroof and AC, doesn't get any better than that!
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Didn't realize your Lark also had AC---sunroof and AC, doesn't get any better than that!
I was smitten when I saw the car for sale in the national Stude club magazine and it was only a couple hours from me. Only fourteen cars were built with both the sunroof and "R" engine (R1 or supercharged R2), and seven of the fourteen had factory air. I know this because I went through the build sheets myself. And being an auditor my whole adult life, I'm fussy about not missing stuff....LOL.
From the video, I see that the car has lost the under-hood insulation blanket I bought during the restoration process. The current owner has added a right-hand mirror too.
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BTW, I put a $500 deposit on the car when I looked at it...it was $2,600 and in hindsight it was probably $1,000 overpriced at that! But I loved that car and had it restored as an authentic 'driver'. I ordered the build sheet before I picked it up, to see if it still had the original engine at 86K miles among other things, and it did.
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Uplander, can't second guess your Studebaker sale. Your kid was going to be starting college and you put family first. Someday you may be in a better position to buy another one.
Funny and 'hip' (as in 'hipster') video made for salesmen, of the '62 Lark convertible. I didn't know the word "sexy" had been invented yet, but there it is! Probably never again used in conjunction with the name "Lark"! LOL And the lady with the bathing suit (and high heels)--guess that's what it took to try and keep salesmen's attention but I don't think it would've worked in a TV commercial! Wonder why they didn't use a Daytona convertible instead of the lower-line Regal model.
Here is a shorter, comical promotional clip for the new '62 Gran Turismo Hawk. Even I will will concede that this well-dressed woman snubbing a Cadillac, then a Lincoln, then a Thunderbird, before climbing in the Hawk is a stretch! LOL
I'd take the Lincoln of those cars, but it was brassy to put a Hawk among any of those others; at $3,095 base it was at least a thousand less than even a Thunderbird I think, and way-way less than Lincoln or Caddy.
I'd take a '64 Hawk, with its better interior and in a dark color with vinyl top, over any of these '61-62 cars though!
Someone on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum said, "Good thing an Imperial didn't show up!".
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Heck, Ford did that a lot in the 60's and 70's. Probably started with the mid sixties Ford and Mercury vs. Rolls Royce. Then the Granada was compared to the MB, etc. Not sure many buyers bought all of it, but sales did increase some after the ad campaigns. The 65-67 big Ford and Mercury were actually pretty nice cars, but then so was the GM and Mopar competition.
Interesting to me at least that I think American Motors started their X-ray comparison charts to their brands around 1962, but never recall any comparisons to Studebaker models. Of course, AMC may not have wanted to bring any attention to Studebaker hoping it faded quickly as an independent make competitor?
Yes, Ford was the 'king' of that type of commercial, wasn't it?
I remember Rambler ads of that early '60's period being small, like 1/6 of a page and saying "Love Letters to Rambler!" and printing an owner's positive comments. I know it's a personal thing, but I think Studebaker did more with less than Rambler did at the same time. Only an opinion.
I liked how the Gran Turismo Hawks turned out. Even though there's DNA from the '53 there, they are probably my favorite Studebaker.
I always liked this magazine ad photo of a white '62 Hawk--I wonder if it is the same car as in the above video clip.
Funny, I was watching that Hawk ad, and when I looked at the A-pillar, I thought "Oh". There's 1953. If anything, that shows that it was sound design...the wraparound window thing looked cool, but was a passing fad.
Speaking of Ford ads - I like 1960 Fords, but this one is so overdone to my eyes:
Yes, Ford was the 'king' of that type of commercial, wasn't it?
I remember Rambler ads of that early '60's period being small, like 1/6 of a page and saying "Love Letters to Rambler!" and printing an owner's positive comments. I know it's a personal thing, but I think Studebaker did more with less than Rambler did at the same time. Only an opinion.
I liked how the Gran Turismo Hawks turned out. Even though there's DNA from the '53 there, they are probably my favorite Studebaker.
I always liked this magazine ad photo of a white '62 Hawk--I wonder if it is the same car as in the above video clip.
Funny, I was watching that Hawk ad, and when I looked at the A-pillar, I thought "Oh". There's 1953. If anything, that shows that it was sound design...the wraparound window thing looked cool, but was a passing fad.
Speaking of Ford ads - I like 1960 Fords, but this one is so overdone to my eyes:
Yes, Ford was the 'king' of that type of commercial, wasn't it?
I remember Rambler ads of that early '60's period being small, like 1/6 of a page and saying "Love Letters to Rambler!" and printing an owner's positive comments. I know it's a personal thing, but I think Studebaker did more with less than Rambler did at the same time. Only an opinion.
I liked how the Gran Turismo Hawks turned out. Even though there's DNA from the '53 there, they are probably my favorite Studebaker.
I always liked this magazine ad photo of a white '62 Hawk--I wonder if it is the same car as in the above video clip.
Maybe the dog dishes make the whitewalls look wider?
I'll admit I like the kind of oddball 4 door HT "town sedan" (I think that was the name) - those have to be nearly extinct today.
FWIW, the four-door hardtop was the "town victoria". I never really warmed up to the '60 Ford, but if I were to have one that Galaxie Town Victoria would be it; something about the roofline appeals to me.
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That's it. Some 60 Fords are really frumpy, but the Starliner and the 4 door HTs aren't bad looking, and such an obvious piece of evolution between the 50s and 60s.
FWIW, the four-door hardtop was the "town victoria". I never really warmed up to the '60 Ford, but if I were to have one that Galaxie Town Victoria would be it; something about the roofline appeals to me.
I think the 60 Ford was a rush job off of an Oros concept in response to the 59 GM designs? Now Chrysler and Desoto were kind of interesting for 1960, and it was the year of the compacts following the previously introduced Lark and kind of reintroduced Rambler American.
When watching that Ford commercial, I thought I was watching 'The Sound of Music'!
I like the '60 Starliner, but I love the '61 Starliner. It can't be the ubiquitous Ford tomato-red of that era though!
For as nice as the upper models look, I never cared at all for the lower-line Ford two-and four-door sedans of the '60-61 period. Of course, no one's low-line models looked all that great.
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On eBay now, factory-supercharged, disc brake-equipped '63 Lark Daytona. I saw this car a couple years back at a swap meet where it sold almost immediately. It wasn't perfect but was pretty darn nice. I'd rather have the floor-shift automatic (PRND21), but I'd take this car. I was grumbling to myself about the dog-dish caps, but the last pic shows the correct full wheelcovers. I'll be interested to see what this car ends up bringing.
When watching that Ford commercial, I thought I was watching 'The Sound of Music'!
I like the '60 Starliner, but I love the '61 Starliner. It can't be the ubiquitous Ford tomato-red of that era though!
For as nice as the upper models look, I never cared at all for the lower-line Ford two-and four-door sedans of the '60-61 period. Of course, no one's low-line models looked all that great.
I just noticed that in the one picture, there is a '64 Daytona R2 hardtop in white next to the red Daytona. Wonder if that car will be for sale? Doesn't look as 'finished', but in a two-door I like the '64 styling better, although to me the '63 has its charms and in fact in a four-door, I like the '63 better.
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I watched Jay leno's new car show yesterday. Some interesting, some juvenile - probably better fits a half hour format to me. Anyway, toward the end they had a collector appraiser and compared a 57 Golden Hawk, I think a 68 somewhat rare Mercury Cyclone and an AMC Marlin. The Studebaker not only had the best appreciation for the past five years, but was projected to stay that way five years out. It was a very nice looking "gold" Golden Hawk
What will hold that supercharged Lark back, if anything, is that column-shift automatic. I know this is now and that was then, but five or six years ago, a supercharged red '63 Daytona hardtop, not as nice as this one IMHO, with 4-speed sold for $25K. My old one, with non-supercharged Avanti engine but with A/C (inoperative though) and the factory sunroof, although also with column-shift automatic, I sold for $15K.
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Comments
The headrest note is interesting too - MB also had these, as accessory items, rare, when found, sometimes only on the passenger seat. They had loop style brackets and are eye-catching:
Like this
That black Cruiser doesn't seem like a bad way to spend 5K. Money isn't what it used to be.
People are often surprised what certain Stude models have brought in auctions the past several years; easy to remember how cheap they were as used cars.
Regarding values, some will fall, some will be strong. Mid century modern is a huge thing now and it won't fade away overnight - design icons like the 53 Speedster and various Hawks etc will hold value or maybe even appreciate a bit. But a plain 1952 sedan or similar, it's downhill from here.
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1955-STUDEBAKER-PRESIDENT-4-DOOR-SEDAN-187114
It seems like Golden Hawks, and R-engined Larks and GT Hawks, as well as bone-stock Avantis in near-perfect shape, are what people have been buying the past few years at decent prices...Golden Hawks, especially, and I'm really not crazy about those. I think it's a function of my age though.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Someone who knows the car told me it does not have factory broadcloth interior, but the owner took care in using the factory pattern and buttons when reupholstering. Also, I guess the car is not black but a very dark brown, a non-factory color. That bugs me some, but I'm told the previous owner did good work on the car.
I think the narrowness and lowness made Studes seem smaller than they were.
I have heard, like you, that they were generally more expensive than the "Low Priced Three" of the period,.
The guys are putting a water pump on the car. I put, I think, three of those on that car in my 23-year ownership.
I do miss that car. Non-Stude folks were frequently surprised at the factory sunroof. The original owner's wife told me once that her husband liked to have gas station jockeys check the oil as they'd frequently comment on the chrome engine parts of the R1 engine.
I do remember Consumer Reports commenting on the Studebakers from around 1955 as being notably narrower inside than competing Big Three cars. I wonder what the shoulder room measurement was on the typical Studebaker sedan from that era? I don't think even the "standard sized" cars were as big as we might think. I seem to remember Ford bragging about the '57 models having 59 inches of shoulder room. Plymouths were wider, but by that time Mopar was using the same basic body shell for Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto/Chrysler, so Plymouth benefitted a bit from that. I took a tape measure to my DeSoto once, years ago, and I think it was around 62" across. But, I dunno if that would've been at the "official" shoulder room measurement spot. With 4-doors, they might take the measurement right at the B-pillar, and the trim is going to cut into the measurement. On my car, I measured it from door panel to door panel.
We always had Chevys when I was growing up, but the center humps in my Studes were small compared to Big Three, a nice thing I think.
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I was smitten when I saw the car for sale in the national Stude club magazine and it was only a couple hours from me. Only fourteen cars were built with both the sunroof and "R" engine (R1 or supercharged R2), and seven of the fourteen had factory air. I know this because I went through the build sheets myself. And being an auditor my whole adult life, I'm fussy about not missing stuff....LOL.
From the video, I see that the car has lost the under-hood insulation blanket I bought during the restoration process. The current owner has added a right-hand mirror too.
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2015/10/07/a-golden-golden-hawk-1957-studebaker-sells-for-99000-in-philadelphia/?refer=news
http://www.thedrive.com/article/366/why-you-should-buy-a-1963-64-studebaker-avanti-right-now
Wait a year for the Avanti, and the ad might be more accurate.
I'd take a '64 Hawk, with its better interior and in a dark color with vinyl top, over any of these '61-62 cars though!
Someone on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum said, "Good thing an Imperial didn't show up!".
Interesting to me at least that I think American Motors started their X-ray comparison charts to their brands around 1962, but never recall any comparisons to Studebaker models. Of course, AMC may not have wanted to bring any attention to Studebaker hoping it faded quickly as an independent make competitor?
I remember Rambler ads of that early '60's period being small, like 1/6 of a page and saying "Love Letters to Rambler!" and printing an owner's positive comments. I know it's a personal thing, but I think Studebaker did more with less than Rambler did at the same time. Only an opinion.
I liked how the Gran Turismo Hawks turned out. Even though there's DNA from the '53 there, they are probably my favorite Studebaker.
I always liked this magazine ad photo of a white '62 Hawk--I wonder if it is the same car as in the above video clip.
http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/images/car_info/Studebaker/Gran_Turismo_Hawk/Gran Turismo Hawk.jpg
Speaking of Ford ads - I like 1960 Fords, but this one is so overdone to my eyes:
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
I'll admit I like the kind of oddball 4 door HT "town sedan" (I think that was the name) - those have to be nearly extinct today.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
I like the '60 Starliner, but I love the '61 Starliner. It can't be the ubiquitous Ford tomato-red of that era though!
For as nice as the upper models look, I never cared at all for the lower-line Ford two-and four-door sedans of the '60-61 period. Of course, no one's low-line models looked all that great.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201447231816?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
The lowline 60 Fords really have a stripped down look - they need the chrome garnish as mich as possible.
That supercharged Lark is pretty cool - I wonder if the reserve is wacky,
As they like to yell at the auctions, "Get your hand in the air!"
I just noticed that in the one picture, there is a '64 Daytona R2 hardtop in white next to the red Daytona. Wonder if that car will be for sale? Doesn't look as 'finished', but in a two-door I like the '64 styling better, although to me the '63 has its charms and in fact in a four-door, I like the '63 better.