As far as I can remember, a $40K R2 Super Lark was sold in the last ten years. It was a lesser model and body style than this car IIRC, a two-door sedan that was a perfect, every-bolt restoration to the build sheet. It was an eBay sale, not a big-auction sale.
It's not nor ever will be for sale, but I think the most valuable Lark extant is the Bordeaux Red '64 Daytona Hardtop with R1 engine and 4-speed that is in the Studebaker National Museum with 28 miles--a completely NOS Studebaker--that was the last car off the assembly line in the U.S., after 111 years of South Bend Studebaker vehicle production. I salivate whenever I get up-close and personal to that car in the museum.
The $25.4K car was a reflection I think of a nice car, and a well-written ad with lots of photos. I look at eBay quite a bit, and it's amazing to me how many poorly written ads with photos poorly presented, there are there.
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A friend took a series of these pics and did a fine job I think.
I like how you can see the original rear seat back in that pic, with the Lark emblem in the material. My wife had bought me NOS everything-else seat material (which it needed) as a Christmas gift one year.
I put 195-75's on that car, as close as original-size as I could locate, and I liked the 'factory look', although a couple friends thought they looked too small. On the Stude 4.5 inch wheel, I'd also heard it really wasn't very safe to put a bigger tire than that on.
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The commercial's not all that great, but I love that they're still using this gorgeous, two-tone in the correct factory scheme, '55 Studebaker pickup in their ads:
If there's anywhere a Stude pickup would still be on the road, it is ID/WA/OR.
Not so much anymore, but starting about 25 years ago, when I'd drive to South Bend, Indiana for parts or other events, I'd sometimes take US 6 or US20, to keep off the interstates. As you might imagine, Indiana is pretty rural outside of South Bend and Fort Wayne, in the northern half of the state. I'd see Stude cars but mostly trucks, still sitting in driveways or "outstanding in their field". As the years have gone by, that has dried up although I mostly take the interstates now as I'm trying to get there quickly and home quickly.
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I still wonder if Studebaker (Canadian without South Bend UAW that played a big factor in it's historical problems) merged with AMC, and they still got Jeep, but without the Renault product lines, if they would be here today? Probably not, but it would have added an interesting dimension to the industry I think because both companies had learned how to be creative due to their frequently tight budgets.
I think as the "longer! lower! wider!" thing started taking hold, manufacturers went to 14" wheels to make their cars look lower. Some compacts had 13" wheels. It seems to me that Stude generally marketed the Lark as more substantial than other compacts ("Compact with Big-Car features!") and they'd always advertise the benefits of 15" wheels (ride and longer tire life).
berri, it's interesting for me to do the "what ifs?" too. Someone wrote once in our Stude club magazine that we should be glad that they went out when they did, as the cars were still interesting (at least to the Stude-inclined). I'll admit that I prefer the South Bend years, but I owned two Canadian Studes and I still enjoyed both.
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Back in the Ponton-fintail days, MBs generally had 13" wheels, with larger or heavy duty applications receiving a 15" wheel. I always wondered the reason for this. The wheels seem undersized, but don't look it due to the tall sidewalls of correct style tires, I guess. Not a huge selection of 13" tires out there.
There aren't many 195-75-15's out there anymore, I'm told, either. Most Lark folks I know put 205's or even larger on them. If I still had a car, I'd find a place to buy 195's.
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That made the wide whitewall decision easier for the fintail - exact size on normal tires wasn't asy to find, and many had over-aggressive tread design, which would look weird on the car. I forget the exact dimensions, but they are close enough to the old bias ply size. I think I read similar tires are also used on early Corvairs.
My '67 Catalina convertible had 215/75/R14 tires on it when I bought it, and those annoying tires, plus its tendency to lose hubcaps, was the main reason I went to 15x7 Rally wheels and 225/70/R15 tires. I'd had several people tell me that the 215/75/R14 was a common size for horse trailers and such. I never did actually buy a 215/75/R14 though. I remember searching online, at Tirerack.com and such, and occasionally a 215/75/14 would pop up, but it always had a warning of "trailer use only". I wonder what the difference is between a trailer tire and a car tire?
195/75/R15 is the stock tire size for the 1979-81 R-body St. Regis/New Yorker/et al, and was probably the standard for the '80-83 Cordoba/Mirada, and maybe the M-body Diplomat/Gran Fury/5th Ave for a few years. So that size might not be *too* hard to find.
Had a Facebook link here of a '50 or '51 Studebaker crusing down Main St. in South Bend last week, under the railroad underpass that says "Welcome to South Bend"--then I realized the link took one right to my own Facebook page, so I deleted it. Sorry...I haven't found a way to COMPLETELY erase a link on Edmunds.
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Weird feeling to see from the new-car paperwork included, that it was delivered to the first retail customer on 11/15/63, only seven days before JFK was assassinated.
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It's a personal thing, but on an Avanti, I just hate the mirrors out on the fenders! Some people/dealers put them there--I'd rather have it on the driver's door only, or none at all (which was 'standard equipment').
Those seats are from an earlier Avanti. The seller didn't know why, but my guess is that some subsequent owner liked the black contrasting color, which is how the earlier '63 interiors were...base color 'fawn and elk' and contrasting seats.
The '64's all had a mono-colored interior, and this car should have the 'elk' seats. And with this car's late serial number, it should have what we so-technically call in the club, "thick seats" like this pic--reinforced seat back:
Someone a year or so ago, posted Studebaker board meeting minutes on www.studebakerdriversclub.com, that included '64 model year potential changes discussion. They changed the Avanti to the fake wood wheel for '64, and two board members disliked the wheel, one saying it looked "chintzy". The minutes mentioned that (corporation president) "Mr. Egbert likes the wheel". Right after that, it says, "The wheel is approved for production"....LOL.
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The $25K supercharged red '63 Lark is back on eBay--I'm hearing this third-hand, but supposedly the winning bidder was from overseas and did not provide the deposit within the time limits in the ad, so it's relisted. It's over at 9 p.m. EST tonight, and it's already bid to over $28K. Pretty good for a Lark.
If you're not a follower of the brand, it can seem as if the end came earlier than 65. If Studebaker had hung on, I wonder if those '66 prototypes would have come out and when. They looked very modern and a bit aggressive. I always wonder how the market would have reacted if they has been available. Would they have increased sales volume, or would they have been too new and ended up like the 62 Plymouth and Dodge?
Yes, that's true. I think most folks know about the Avanti, but are surprised they were around for three model years after that. It seems like a lot are surprised they built trucks right up to the end of U.S production, especially when you tell them they built big trucks with or without Diesel power up 'til Dec. '63.
The prototypes you're talking about were created by Brooks Stevens of Milwaukee. They are interesting. A white Wagonaire prototype is on permanent display at the Studebaker National Museum, and a black hardtop and black four-door sedan have been on loan to them before from the Brooks Stevens Museum. The hardtop has a Sylvania light bar across the front of it and a tinted glass "C" pillar, interesting.
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I saw those at Brooks Stevens museum near Milwaukee some years back and thought they were very cool for the timeframe they were developed. But I always will wonder how successful they would have been. Sometimes you can be too far out ahead of the curve as the 59 GM's showed. If you look at the rear and the trunk lines on a 62 Plymouth Fury, which was almost universally panned when it came out, you can kind of see where Exner was going by looking at the rear end of Audi's these days. The latter 50's and 60's will always seem like the pinnacle of automotive design and excitement for me at least. I sure wish Studebaker would have been able to hang on and put those Spectre prototypes into the market.
If you ever get near South Bend on I-80, the Studebaker National Museum is worth a visit for sure. I think most folks would be surprised at what a nice facility it is, for a defunct manufacturer. It is one of only three car museums accredited by the American Alliance of Museums, and it has a separate archives building just chock-full of documents and blueprints, even for Packard (the old wives' tale is that Studebaker destroyed everything of Packard's, but I saw a long row of file cabinets that said "Packard" across them last time I was there; I know they have build sheets for the merger years and Packard blueprints going back way farther than that).
I do wish the museum had one more floor, but that's just me talking.
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Stumbled across this online today. This truck is on display at the Studebaker National Museum. In person, to my eyes, it looks huge, but its dimensions are not big at all.
It's funny to see the Avanti Powershift trans control in it. Three-speed automatic that you could hold in 1 and 2--hell, you couldn't even get an automatic like that in a '64 Corvette Sting Ray! LOL
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That's something to think about. The fintail is a 4 speed auto, but first can only be accessed via a manual kickdown under the gas pedal - I don't recall it ever kicking down that low by itself. If you manually kick it down, it will upshift by maybe 5 mph or so. It usually starts off in second, and you can select second and it will hold there.
In this very recent "Curbside Classic" blog entry, the guy tours the archives of the Studebaker National Museum. Imagine my surprise to see the shipping certificate shown as an example, to be from my own former '63 Lark Daytona Skytop! I don't know this guy at all.
Does anyone else have that document uploaded elsewhere?
Speaking of Studes, I noticed the local "safe and lock" company which is located in the old Stude dealership has "since 1966" on their van. I wonder if they took over the building when Stude folded? Heck of a coincidence.
Yes, I sent that build sheet to a guy with a website on Studebaker Skytops. The blog writer said he got that document "online", but still, I think that's a coincidence.
From '60-66, you can find out who was the original purchaser of your Stude. I think that's great, although I had someone try to tell me once somehow that was a negative thing....LOL.
Concerning your local safe and lock company, that is a real coincidence and a definite possibility. I think, generally only of course, if a Stude dealer held on through '66 (a lot left after the South Bend plant closed down a couple years before), they stuck around a little longer as a Stude "Parts and Service Dealer". Studebaker continued that until 1972. My little hometown dealer continued as a Stude "Parts and Service Dealer" until Dec. '68, upon which time the Chrysler-Plymouth-AMC dealer picked up that franchise (I learned this in the archives at the Stude Museum) and hired some of the old Stude dealer mechanics.
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Loving this factory color photo of a '63 Lark Daytona Wagonaire--I have never seen it before this blog of three days ago. It's the wagon version of my old two-door hardtop! I still like the styling of those cars. Looks like they forgot to take the clear plastic off the front seat...LOL.
It's funny to imagine that some of those Wagonaires were built with superchargers, four-speeds, disc brakes, and in-dash tachs.
You wouldn't necessarily think so by today's standards, but I'd bet that's a girl in the right-most part of that photo, fishing. No boy had hair like that in the early sixties! LOL
EDIT: I dug out my 1988 club magazine issue showing the results of people going through the 35,699 V8 Lark and Hawk production orders and recording results. There were 15 supercharged '63 Wagonaires built.
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You wouldn't necessarily think so by today's standards, but I'd bet that's a girl in the right-most part of that photo, fishing. No boy had hair like that in the early sixties! LOL
Yep, too early for "beatle" hair along with the bobby socks turned down.
Sadly, Mary Ann (wearing the red gingham top matching her pic-a-nic tablecloth) would go missing on a 3 hour tour just one year after this family photo was staged.
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
I have the '63 brochure, the showroom album, and the promotional postcards. This pic isn't any of them and I'd never seen it before just the other day. I wonder if the plastic left on the front seat of the car 'killed' the pic from being used in promotion.
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I know of one that was built into an R2 but wasn't a factory job. Here's the only factory one I could find online. I seem to remember when it was for sale a few years back. The "Avanti Supercharged" fender emblems on this car are a good six inches below where they're supposed to be. That makes me crazy. The factory put out specs where to mount these (early cars didn't have them but when the factory started installing them, Studebaker sent them to dealers and told them to contact customers to whom they'd already sold cars and ask if they want the emblems installed). Stuff like that just slaps me in the face and can't be easily corrected!
Still, when I look at that car, I'd take it! I'd get the emblem situation squared away, put the correct full wheelcovers and wrap-around front bumper ends on it, paint the wheels the factory off-white, put NOS interior door panels in (they're out there)--and enjoy it.
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Sounds like an easy fix. I can think of worse ways to spend the money. Having something rare yet cool, and rare where at least a few people care, is nice.
There is a ton of NOS available still for Studebakers. The major parts vendor, Studebaker International, with locations near Indianapolis, and in South Bend, Indiana, is primarily the recipient of the old factory stock of parts which changed hands probably about twenty, and then again ten, years ago. To tour their South Bend facility alone, which is in the plant building where Studebaker built airplane engines during WWII, is astounding, and it is well-catalogued.
The soft interior trim was sold separately to a couple who lives out west.
When I got into Studebakers, I wanted something different and I'm old enough to remember them. I had no idea of the parts situation, but it was a welcome bonus. For Larks--'64's and later, especially--most everything is available NOS, or reproduction (courtesy of Studebaker International).
When I went to restore my '63 Lark (in my sig photo), I bought NOS doors, rear quarters, front end panel, rear end panel, trunk lid--and I don't believe I had more than $700 in all of that. Bumpers, mirrors, and every single bit of molding and emblems and nameplates, were available NOS or reproduction for that car...every single piece. Most of those parts are still available, twenty years after my restoration.
The Studebaker Drivers' Club is a very helpful group, around 12K members internationally, and puts out a killer monthly magazine of 66 pages, full of history and technical information. I have saved every issue since I joined the club in Dec. '86.
My wife bought me NOS seat and door panel trim for my '63 as a Christmas present. It was around $350 in total if I remember correctly. She sent her little brother out to South Bend to pick it all up and he drove out in there in snowy weather and back in one day. One panel was an incorrect piece but that gave me an excuse to go out there and return it--I didn't mind that much.
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wow, that's pretty cool! I think it's amazing how, even in a crudely-drawn cartoon such as "the Simpsons", they can still get so much detail into the cars.
Comments
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201447231816?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
It's not nor ever will be for sale, but I think the most valuable Lark extant is the Bordeaux Red '64 Daytona Hardtop with R1 engine and 4-speed that is in the Studebaker National Museum with 28 miles--a completely NOS Studebaker--that was the last car off the assembly line in the U.S., after 111 years of South Bend Studebaker vehicle production. I salivate whenever I get up-close and personal to that car in the museum.
The $25.4K car was a reflection I think of a nice car, and a well-written ad with lots of photos. I look at eBay quite a bit, and it's amazing to me how many poorly written ads with photos poorly presented, there are there.
http://www.studebakerskytop.com/billpresslerpics1.jpg
A friend took a series of these pics and did a fine job I think.
I like how you can see the original rear seat back in that pic, with the Lark emblem in the material. My wife had bought me NOS everything-else seat material (which it needed) as a Christmas gift one year.
I put 195-75's on that car, as close as original-size as I could locate, and I liked the 'factory look', although a couple friends thought they looked too small. On the Stude 4.5 inch wheel, I'd also heard it really wasn't very safe to put a bigger tire than that on.
If there's anywhere a Stude pickup would still be on the road, it is ID/WA/OR.
Not so much anymore, but starting about 25 years ago, when I'd drive to South Bend, Indiana for parts or other events, I'd sometimes take US 6 or US20, to keep off the interstates. As you might imagine, Indiana is pretty rural outside of South Bend and Fort Wayne, in the northern half of the state. I'd see Stude cars but mostly trucks, still sitting in driveways or "outstanding in their field". As the years have gone by, that has dried up although I mostly take the interstates now as I'm trying to get there quickly and home quickly.
berri, it's interesting for me to do the "what ifs?" too. Someone wrote once in our Stude club magazine that we should be glad that they went out when they did, as the cars were still interesting (at least to the Stude-inclined). I'll admit that I prefer the South Bend years, but I owned two Canadian Studes and I still enjoyed both.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ccco/uploads/attachment/image/file/4901/2_N9_low_res.jpg
That particular Studebaker logo wasn't used until '63, which puts an approximate date on this photo.
I can imagine.
There aren't many 195-75-15's out there anymore, I'm told, either. Most Lark folks I know put 205's or even larger on them. If I still had a car, I'd find a place to buy 195's.
195/75/R15 is the stock tire size for the 1979-81 R-body St. Regis/New Yorker/et al, and was probably the standard for the '80-83 Cordoba/Mirada, and maybe the M-body Diplomat/Gran Fury/5th Ave for a few years. So that size might not be *too* hard to find.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-AVANTI-ORIGINAL-/181913083323?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a5add5dbb:g:9YgAAOSwYHxWLUwI&item=181913083323
Weird feeling to see from the new-car paperwork included, that it was delivered to the first retail customer on 11/15/63, only seven days before JFK was assassinated.
The pricing info is interesting too, not horribly expensive.
Those seats are from an earlier Avanti. The seller didn't know why, but my guess is that some subsequent owner liked the black contrasting color, which is how the earlier '63 interiors were...base color 'fawn and elk' and contrasting seats.
The '64's all had a mono-colored interior, and this car should have the 'elk' seats. And with this car's late serial number, it should have what we so-technically call in the club, "thick seats" like this pic--reinforced seat back:
http://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/pjavantiint.jpg
Someone a year or so ago, posted Studebaker board meeting minutes on www.studebakerdriversclub.com, that included '64 model year potential changes discussion. They changed the Avanti to the fake wood wheel for '64, and two board members disliked the wheel, one saying it looked "chintzy". The minutes mentioned that (corporation president) "Mr. Egbert likes the wheel". Right after that, it says, "The wheel is approved for production"....LOL.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-Daytona-Hardtop-R2-Factory-Paxton-Supercharged-/201457365705?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2ee7cb72c9:g:ayYAAOSw9mFWMVLu&item=201457365705
Throwback Thursday photo from the Studebaker National Museum--factory photo of a '65 Cruiser, pretty car IMHO, unusual color combination.
The prototypes you're talking about were created by Brooks Stevens of Milwaukee. They are interesting. A white Wagonaire prototype is on permanent display at the Studebaker National Museum, and a black hardtop and black four-door sedan have been on loan to them before from the Brooks Stevens Museum. The hardtop has a Sylvania light bar across the front of it and a tinted glass "C" pillar, interesting.
https://www.studebakermuseum.org/p/about/
If you ever get near South Bend on I-80, the Studebaker National Museum is worth a visit for sure. I think most folks would be surprised at what a nice facility it is, for a defunct manufacturer. It is one of only three car museums accredited by the American Alliance of Museums, and it has a separate archives building just chock-full of documents and blueprints, even for Packard (the old wives' tale is that Studebaker destroyed everything of Packard's, but I saw a long row of file cabinets that said "Packard" across them last time I was there; I know they have build sheets for the merger years and Packard blueprints going back way farther than that).
I do wish the museum had one more floor, but that's just me talking.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1963-studebaker-westinghouse-pickup-truck-concept1.htm
http://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/curbside-cache-the-archives-at-the-studebaker-national-museum/
Speaking of Studes, I noticed the local "safe and lock" company which is located in the old Stude dealership has "since 1966" on their van. I wonder if they took over the building when Stude folded? Heck of a coincidence.
From '60-66, you can find out who was the original purchaser of your Stude. I think that's great, although I had someone try to tell me once somehow that was a negative thing....LOL.
Concerning your local safe and lock company, that is a real coincidence and a definite possibility. I think, generally only of course, if a Stude dealer held on through '66 (a lot left after the South Bend plant closed down a couple years before), they stuck around a little longer as a Stude "Parts and Service Dealer". Studebaker continued that until 1972. My little hometown dealer continued as a Stude "Parts and Service Dealer" until Dec. '68, upon which time the Chrysler-Plymouth-AMC dealer picked up that franchise (I learned this in the archives at the Stude Museum) and hired some of the old Stude dealer mechanics.
http://www.thedrive.com/article/1192
I know I'm biased, but I still think Larks were about the perfect size, good proportion of interior space to exterior dimensions.
You wouldn't necessarily think so by today's standards, but I'd bet that's a girl in the right-most part of that photo, fishing. No boy had hair like that in the early sixties! LOL
http://www.thedrive.com/article/1192
EDIT: I dug out my 1988 club magazine issue showing the results of people going through the 35,699 V8 Lark and Hawk production orders and recording results. There were 15 supercharged '63 Wagonaires built.
Sadly, Mary Ann (wearing the red gingham top matching her pic-a-nic tablecloth) would go missing on a 3 hour tour just one year after this family photo was staged.
I have the '63 brochure, the showroom album, and the promotional postcards. This pic isn't any of them and I'd never seen it before just the other day. I wonder if the plastic left on the front seat of the car 'killed' the pic from being used in promotion.
http://www.stationwagonfinder.com/2011/11/1963-studebaker-daytona-wagonaire/
I do remember hearing somewhere that there are surprisingly a ton of Studebaker NOS parts out there.
The soft interior trim was sold separately to a couple who lives out west.
When I got into Studebakers, I wanted something different and I'm old enough to remember them. I had no idea of the parts situation, but it was a welcome bonus. For Larks--'64's and later, especially--most everything is available NOS, or reproduction (courtesy of Studebaker International).
When I went to restore my '63 Lark (in my sig photo), I bought NOS doors, rear quarters, front end panel, rear end panel, trunk lid--and I don't believe I had more than $700 in all of that. Bumpers, mirrors, and every single bit of molding and emblems and nameplates, were available NOS or reproduction for that car...every single piece. Most of those parts are still available, twenty years after my restoration.
The Studebaker Drivers' Club is a very helpful group, around 12K members internationally, and puts out a killer monthly magazine of 66 pages, full of history and technical information. I have saved every issue since I joined the club in Dec. '86.
My wife bought me NOS seat and door panel trim for my '63 as a Christmas present. It was around $350 in total if I remember correctly. She sent her little brother out to South Bend to pick it all up and he drove out in there in snowy weather and back in one day. One panel was an incorrect piece but that gave me an excuse to go out there and return it--I didn't mind that much.
Grandpa Simpson refers to it as a "Starliner Commander" I think.