Postwar Studebakers

bhill2

Mr_Shiftright said:

Someday I will Photoshop an Avanti and get it the way I like it.

Please post the result. 

uplanderguy

That military vehicle is called a "Weasel". I sort-of know a guy in Akron who has one and he was talked one year into bringing it to our large regional Studebaker and Packard show at Summit Racing in Tallmadge, OH. It was the only one there.

Mr_Shiftright

I wonder where you get Weasel parts?

Mr_Shiftright

bhill2 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Someday I will Photoshop an Avanti and get it the way I like it.

Please post the result. 

Challenge accepted! Now I have to figure out how to do it....

uplanderguy

Here's a '60's Stude not often seen--a '62 Diesel 96 BBC--called that because the front end is sawed off (factory) to be able to legally carry longer trailers--there were (are?) length limits. With the lack of the usual white fiberglass grille and headlight surround, I think it reminds me of Macks of that time period.

http://www.t137.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10010/1962_Studebaker_Diesel.jpg

uplanderguy

The engine is a flathead Champion I'm fairly sure...but Studebaker International has two warehouses (one in South Bend where Studebaker built airplane engines during the war; the other outside of Indianapolis) just chock-full of NOS and some reproduction parts. I wouldn't be surprised there is some NOS there, maybe not, but they do have some NOS pre-war car and truck parts. When it was under the previous owners, it was never very well-catalogued, but the current owner has spent a ton of time cataloguing and organizing what he was. A behind-the-scenes tour is utterly amazing, at the South Bend location, anyway.

uplanderguy

Whatever you do, please do not put a grille between the headlights of your 'custom' Avanti!

Mr_Shiftright

Nothing conspicuous, no. It's not the right shape for much of a grille. I would concentrate more on getting rid of the disagreeable shovel nose, which IMO is the only style feature that drags the car down from classic towards tacky. I'd be more inclined to stretch the cars skin forward to replicate the muscular shape of the rear quarters. I might even consider a slight fender lift (fender top line above hood). So I'd flatten the nose out, somewhat Toronado-like, but I wouldn't have the fenders move out ahead of the grille, like on the Toro.

uplanderguy

I think the general profile of the car is shovel-down, from the built-in rake to the rear quarter window and shape of the wheel openings. Like most things Studebaker, it's a love-it-or-hate-it, but I admire the ingenuity of the styling. The notable curved side glass and tuck-in below the crease on the body sides, and the A-pillars covered completely in bright metal, are things that were seen later on other cars. The quarter-window shape, like it or hate it, was copied by Dick Teague for the Gremlin and Lincoln-Mercury later for the Cougar.

The last Studebakers were styled by industrial designers as opposed to stylists, and as a result I think they tend to look less cluttered than other makes. Only an opinion in a sea of many, of course.

Mr_Shiftright

There are certainly aspects of the Avanti design that have merit. Can't say the same for the Gremlin or Pacer, which Teague had his hand on.

berri

Personally, I liked the interior of the Avanti, but overall I prefer the Hawk GT

uplanderguy

My dream collection would include one of both, but if I could only have one, my favorite Stude of all is a 1964 Gran Turismo Hawk--dark color, black half-vinyl roof, Avanti Powershift trans (PRND21). It has DNA from the '53 but I just love the cars.

uplanderguy

Very unusual Studebaker on eBay now; a 4x4 Transtar pickup, bid to $39K as of now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-Pickup-/291682077062?forcerrptr=true&hash=item43e99b4986:g:IBMAAOSwWTRWu7eq&item=291682077062

I've heard the story of the U.S. Navy order--the last 4x4's were 1959 models; the Champ pickup with new cab mated to the same box came out for the '60 model year. But the Navy wanted those 4x4's and they are considered 1960 models. I'll be curious to see what the final bid ends up being.

berri

Well, I think that Hawk GT just had clean, very classic styling. Now the pickup may be interesting, but eye candy it's not

uplanderguy

I did always like the toothy white fiberglass grille they starting using on the '57 trucks and that this one has.

uplanderguy

Here's a '64 Hawk I would love to own.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2759/4260981186_29da44b60f_z.jpg?zz=1

berri

Still looks good. The mid sixties was just a great period for auto design IMHO. So much of it continues to look good today.

uplanderguy

I agree.

I always liked a car that was rather plain down the sides, but had rocker trim and wheel-opening trim. I'm thinking those things weren't very often-seen in the early sixties, especially at the $3K price point.

uplanderguy

Loving this '61 Studebaker pickup on eBay now, although the six-cylinder engine gives me pause. I love original/authentic and this truck is it--from the outside (non-original seat upholstery and wrong-color engine). Some spirited bidding for a Champ, too:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-/262294373704?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d11f68548:g:9xsAAOSwWTRWw95H&item=262294373704

uplanderguy

That Champ sells for $16K:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-/262294373704?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d11f68548:g:9xsAAOSwWTRWw95H&item=262294373704

I'm surprised, but then I have heard that trucks in general are hot now.

The four-wheel drive '60 mentioned a few posts above, brought $39K, less surprising to me than that Champ:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-/262294373704?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d11f68548:g:9xsAAOSwWTRWw95H&item=262294373704

berri

I don't know about these Studebaker trucks Uplander. Next thing you know you'll be cruising around town in a Rambler American too

uplanderguy

Nah, I'd draw the line before I got there.

But an American is probably cheaper to buy than a Lark in like condition.

uplanderguy

I see I accidentally linked the Champ eBay results twice above; sorry about that.

Here's the $39K 4x4 '60 Stude truck that sold last week:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-Pickup-/291682077062?forcerrptr=true&hash=item43e99b4986:g:IBMAAOSwWTRWu7eq&item=291682077062

fintail

Cool truck, that's a lot of money.

uplanderguy

Got my new Hemmings Classic Car out of the mailbox today and this car is the cover/feature article car:

http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014-03-09-001-1778.jpg

Avanti production line car number 0002, built 1962, and a class winner at Amelia Island's concours in 2014--"American Production" class. Supercharged, four-speed, factory "Tangerine" (orange!) interior.

I like the Avanti in profile, but sadly there are no profile shots in the Hemmings Classic Car article. Still, lots of during-the-restoration photos.

uplanderguy

Very much wanting this original/authentic, Bordeaux Red '64 Daytona convertible now on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172135062463

OK, the exhaust tips look ridiculous.

Reclining bucket seats; I like those too.

fintail

AC has to be pretty rare in that.

uplanderguy

That's an aftermarket unit, although somebody slapped that Studebaker logo on it.

sda

uplanderguy said:

That's an aftermarket unit, although somebody slapped that Studebaker logo on it.

Did Studebaker incorporate the a/c vents and unit in the dash or did they always use a hang on underdash unit similar to this one?

uplanderguy

Except in the Avanti, Stude used under-dash A/C as factory equipment. The one on this car is aftermarket though.

uplanderguy

Today, fifty years ago, the very last Studebaker automobile drove off the assembly line in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. It was shipped to South Bend to the corporate office and actually driven by executives until 1969, when it was put into the Studebaker Historical Collection at 19K miles.

The car has a white vinyl top, disc brakes, and transistorized ignition. No idiot lights.

Interior:
http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/1966Cruiser2.jpg

Exterior:
http://image.hotrod.com/f/84463294+w660+h495+cr1/paragraphimage.jpg

Although car production stopped, Studebaker kept on as a corporation, merging with Worthington in 1967. The Parts and Service division soldiered on through 1972, and their several non-automotive divisions lived on as well.

This is my former 1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, which was early production run--built 9/1/65. The vents above the taillights were part of that year's new flow-through ventilation system:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7113/7725779722_497a6fe590_k.jpg

sda

http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBoG1xe.img?h=373&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f
Studebaker Super Lark




The Studebaker Super Lark (pictured left) is arguably the first muscle car ever built. Studebaker took the supercharged V8 from the Avanti sports car, which made 335 horsepower in R2 form, and stuffed it, along with a limited-slip differential and front disc brakes, in the humdrum Lark.It turned a normal economy car into something that ran 15s quarter mile, impressive stuff for 1963.

I found this on the MSN site, and thought you'd enjoy.

uplanderguy

Thanks for posting! I'm sure it's obvious--I like the '63-64 era at Studebaker best, probably in part because it's the end of U.S. assembly and also I was alive when those cars were being built.

jpp75

Some of you may read the Curbside Classic site but I found this article about the old Studebaker facility in South Bend to be an interesting read. Amazing how large it was back in the day.

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/studebaker-in-south-bend-going-going/#more-6850

berri

I think Studebaker in the 50's and 60's was a sad story of an unreasonable UAW and a company with poor cash management skills. Those things seemed to keep it from spending on new product and expanding vertical integration to get the cost savings being wrung out by the Big 3. Personally I think they might have better off if they had partnered with George Mason and Nash than Vance and Packard. I always felt Mason and old man Romney had better business vision, while Nance may have been more driven by his ego and need to be the CEO. Plus, Packard was basically toast by the mid 50's. But eventually all the independents came to an end, and ultimately Chrysler needed a loan guarantee bailout to survive the subsequent Asian import invasion.

uplanderguy

AMC made more money, no doubt, but I think their product line was bland compared to Studebaker's, particularly in the sixties. No trucks of any kind, either.

Avanti at the NY Auto Show--here, the huge rear window is apparent:

http://www.theavanti.net/timecapsule/62nyautoshow.jpg

uplanderguy

jpp, thanks for providing that "Curbside Classics" blog link. I had not seen this particular one, earlier.

There are only two of the original Studebaker buildings in that big pic in the link, still standing. The body plant (tall building, NW part of photo) is still there and being converted to modern use, and the smaller, oblong building to the right of the body building in the pic is the Administration Building, still there and in pretty good repair (executive offices are still beautiful) although not in use now.

I think it's cool that you can still see "STUDEBAKER" spelled out in the trees from the air out at the old Proving Ground.

andre1969

Going back to the Marlin, I think it would look even worse on a smaller car. I don't think the '65-66 is particularly ugly...more that it looks like two shapes that simply were not meant to go together. It's like they tried to force the roof of a '48 Ford 2-door sedan on the boxy Rambler body, and the two clash. I think the '67 works better, partly because the roof part is smaller and toned down (on a smaller car, the roof would have most likely been even larger in proportion to the rest of the car), and also the '67 overall is a bit more rounded and softer.

uplanderguy

I prefer the '67 Marlin myself, for the reasons you mentioned, plus it's rarer. But that tiny decklid and humongous quarter window--I don't know.

The '67 is based on the Ambassador chassis, or so I've read over the years.

berri

Growing up in the Chicago area back in the 50's and 60's, when I hear Rambler I automatically think of a station wagon. They were quite common there back in those days. Rambler dealers also seemed quite promotional with things like pony rides for the kids, free hot dogs, clowns, etc. There was a Willy's dealer tucked away near us. I always liked both the F type and Jeep truck looks. That eventually became part of AMC.

uplanderguy

Here's the 1913 Studebaker E6 Touring Sedan I adopted out at the Studebaker National Museum. A friend was just out there and sent me a pic of the car and the plaque with my name on it, but I can't load pics onto this site--too lazy to learn as I am constantly learning and un-learning new technology at work and want my leisure time to be relatively tech-free...LOL. So here's a web pic of the car:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Studebaker_National_Museum_May_2014_011_(1913_Studebaker_E6_Touring).jpg

uplanderguy

Oh well, sorry. Two attempts and the link doesn't work.

Mr_Shiftright

Big International Studebaker Meet in Rhode Island this summer:



http://www.sdcmeet.com/

uplanderguy

Yeah, I need to get to one of internationals that's someplace else other than South Bend (where it'll be in 2017). I've been to seven internationals since 1988, and drove a Studebaker to four of them. Six of those internationals were in South Bend and one at Greenfield Village in MI.

Mr_Shiftright

Here are some Studebakers I've appraised in the past: A '31 Four Season Roadster and a '28 President. The President isn't worth much but the '31 is pretty rare and quite valuable.

uplanderguy

For a long time, I've heard the Four Seasons Roadster is the most valuable Studebaker.

For postwar cars, I'd say it's the Golden Hawk. Funny--probably a function of my age as much as anything--I'm not crazy about Golden Hawks. If I had a chance at a '50's Hawk, I'd want a '56 Sky Hawk. Still a hardtop; same interior as a Golden Hawk, but no fins outside and the Stude 289 engine and automatic trans.

Mr_Shiftright

I agree. I'm not fond of the GH styling either and that Packard V8 makes it very nose-heavy. I'd say the GT Hawk is my favorite postwar Studebaker.

The Four Seasons is a lovely and well made car. Many people don't realize that Studebaker made some pretty luxurious cars in the 1930s. It's no Model A, that's for sure. Roll up windows!

bhill2

Mr_Shiftright said:

I agree. I'm not fond of the GH styling either and that Packard V8 makes it very nose-heavy. I'd say the GT Hawk is my favorite postwar Studebaker.

The Four Seasons is a lovely and well made car. Many people don't realize that Studebaker made some pretty luxurious cars in the 1930s. It's no Model A, that's for sure. Roll up windows!

Shifty, I agree with you about the GT Hawk, but the GH Hawk only used the Packard engine in 56. Any different feeling about the 57-58?

uplanderguy

The ones that have been doing well at big auctions have been the '57. Looks-wise, I think the '56 is better--much-smaller fins--but, although this is arguable, I've heard the '57 is 100 lbs. lighter over the front wheels than the '56, and there were oiling issues with the Packard V8 and reliability issues with the Packard Ultramatic trans too.

Here is a '56 Sky Hawk I'd enjoy owning...to me the only negative is the parking lights on top of the fenders; something I could see Imperial doing!

http://www.studebaker-info.org/Archive/Cars/1956/56Sky2600/56Sky2600b.JPG

289 Stude V8, 3-speed, 3-speed w/OD, or Borg-Warner automatic trans. Actually rarer than the Golden Hawk too, by about 25% when new. I am nearly sure that the car pictured is one that sold on eBay several years back--a low-mileage, original paint, unrestored car.

berri

Mid 50's Studebakers - I always kind of liked the Conestoga wagons. They looked and were sized a bit unique for the era. I don't know the dimensions, but I'm guessing the 60's Hawk GT was bigger and roomier than the mid 50's GT Hawk?