Postwar Studebakers

fintail

Here's an odd piece I saw while browsing through Youtube:

https://youtu.be/k2OYA0nnzXc

uplanderguy

Thanks sda, I appreciate the kind words. This whole "Postwar Studebakers" thread got started when another guy (who left long ago in disgust, LOL!) and I would discuss Studebakers on one of the other Edmunds old-car threads and I was told other people were complaining.

uplanderguy

That '62 Cruiser was too nice to destroy! But then, I thought destroying a '59 Chevy with a new Malibu was a waste of an old car, too, a few years back.

That Cruiser has Avanti wheel covers, interesting. Thank you for posting.

berri

Uplander, I was looking at the latest Hemming's Classic Car magazine. You told me about Nance moving on to Edsel after Packard. The issue had early sketches for the Edsel. I've seen sketches of future Packard's elsewhere. All I can say is there must have been some stealing, or some relationship involved because there are some striking similarities.

uplanderguy

I agree, berri. I always thought the '58 Mercury reminded me of "Black Bess", a crude styling mule Packard was working on for late '50's production ideas at the time of the shutdown, too.

Mr_Shiftright

Studebaker did some nice work on many of their coupe body styles, but their sedans always struck me as very awkward--this couldn't have helped them, as sedans are the bread and butter of an automaker.

uplanderguy

This is my favorite four-door Studebaker:

http://www.ritzsite.nl/63Stude/1963_Studebaker_Lark_Cruiser.JPG

I am hard-pressed to think of another car that used a similar cut and rear-door vent-window shape, other than a '75 Seville or '77 Caprice Classic.

I think even the '62 Cruiser, above, that fell off the building, looks less-dated in profile than other cars its general size, which in '62 and '63 would probably be the Ford Fairlane and Mercury Meteor. They have more side sculpturing and small rear-wheel openings, which to me date the designs. I could enjoy a Meteor because of its rarity, and we even had a '62 Fairlane four-door when I was a kid, although it was the car that drove Dad away from Fords.

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

uplanderguy said:

I can't see a price on that link.

That's a really nice truck and although that body started with the '49 model year, I always liked the vertical fiberglass grille they started using on the '57's.

That bed was double-walled and lacked a rolled edge like most everything else. When that cab came out it was considered somewhat modern as the running board (step) was inside the door. The instruments were serviceable from under the hood, somewhat unusual though not a real big deal of course.

Asking $65,000.

65,000 is a TON of money for that but I doubt a nicer one could be found!

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

This is my favorite four-door Studebaker:

http://www.ritzsite.nl/63Stude/1963_Studebaker_Lark_Cruiser.JPG

I am hard-pressed to think of another car that used a similar cut and rear-door vent-window shape, other than a '75 Seville or '77 Caprice Classic.

I think even the '62 Cruiser, above, that fell off the building, looks less-dated in profile than other cars its general size, which in '62 and '63 would probably be the Ford Fairlane and Mercury Meteor. They have more side sculpturing and small rear-wheel openings, which to me date the designs. I could enjoy a Meteor because of its rarity, and we even had a '62 Fairlane four-door when I was a kid, although it was the car that drove Dad away from Fords.

That design is harmless enough. The 57 and 58 sedans were pretty ugly.

uplanderguy

Not my favorite year, but I couldn't really call this ugly. Looks pretty much like the rest of the industry to me. And at least it has a low beltline.

https://img.mecum.com/auctions/CH0911/CH0911-115584/images/CH0911-115584_1.jpg

uplanderguy

On the '63 Cruiser sedan, make mine a supercharged one, 4-speed, disc brakes, in-dash tach, sunroof, and the optional Broadcloth interior and I'd have a rather unusual American compact for the time.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2326/2142735756_a37a2592cc_b.jpg

fintail

In the garage where I park the fintail, the shape should look familiar:



As we have discussed, those 63 or so Cruisers seem to have a distinct European influence. I bet the MB association helped with that.

berri

Were those 57/58 Studebakers originally Studebaker or Packard designs? A few styling touches remind me just a bit of the 57 Pontiac. Maybe it is how the two tone paint is applied. I dunno, can't exactly put my finger on it.

uplanderguy

The '57/58's were Studebaker designs, although James Nance wanted more mainstream styling than the '55's so had his 'editorial' hand in them. The taillights of the '57 are quite close to '57 Pontiac taillights.

uplanderguy

fin, not one, but two! Same owner no doubt. You can always tell an Avanti under a cover by the peaked front fenders I think.

fintail

Both Avanti IIs, both the same color. One is pretty nice, the other is more of a survivor. Funny thing, the owner stored his cars in the same garage I rented before this one, years ago. He also has/had a 66 Continental convertible in a very similar (kind of a dark red) color.

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

Not my favorite year, but I couldn't really call this ugly. Looks pretty much like the rest of the industry to me. And at least it has a low beltline.

https://img.mecum.com/auctions/CH0911/CH0911-115584/images/CH0911-115584_1.jpg

Yeah, that "cove" on the back fender does remind one of the '57 Pontiac, but the Pontiac had a much smoother roof line and more rounding in the fenders.

uplanderguy

'57 Pontiac taillights:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/1957-Pontiac-taillights.jpg

'57 Studebaker taillights:

http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/stude/bilder/57stu.jpg

The best thing I could say about the cut of the rear doors on '57 4-door Studebakers was that they didn't require ducking like GM's post sedans did. Even in my friend's '56 Packard Patrician, I'd routinely konk my head getting into the back seat because of the sloping cut of the rear of the door opening.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, built for a time when men still wore hats!

fintail

This thing popped up at the local high end specialty dealer I saw it today, very pretty car, don't know about that price.

uplanderguy

Did you see a price? All I see is "Call" or something like that.

This car was recently mentioned on the S.D.C forum. Unusual that it has no radio. It's a nice-looking car, with a couple authenticity items a problem for me--red wheels instead of off-white (no big deal of course), and two-tone interior that is non-authentic. Also, red valve covers instead of factory yellow.

There's enough documentation of those detail things that I always wonder why people just didn't do it that way to begin with? I know when it's your car you can do whatever you want, but then, know people will notice these things when it's for sale--and it's not nit-picking!

You saw it in person?

fintail

Ah crap I swear it was there. I want to say it was 38 or 39K. Famously optimistic pricing strategy dealer, though.

I have trouble with low mileage claims when the finishes (paint, interior) aren't original. Without original finishes, who cares about low mileages?

sda

fintail said:

Ah crap I swear it was there. I want to say it was 38 or 39K. Famously optimistic pricing strategy dealer, though.

I have trouble with low mileage claims when the finishes (paint, interior) aren't original. Without original finishes, who cares about low mileages?

I agree with your and uplander's comments, absolutely. Have to admit that if uplander had not pointed out the differences the changes made they look like they could have been chosen for '62 and it looks really nice. I really like the comprehensive instrument cluster with the wood accent. Bottom line, buyer beware and do your homework!

uplanderguy

Small thing, and I'm being a nerd again I know, but he's a good 1,000 low on the production number. For years I've seen it as 9,335. Anything less is a calendar-year production number, not model-year.

Mr_Shiftright

I had a '63 GT Hawk---very comfortable reliable, good-looking car. Drove that car California-Colorado 4/5 times in desert heat and winter storms.

But I wouldn't stretch it like that ad did and compare it to a "European sports car". It's much more comparable to a T-Bird or Riviera.

uplanderguy

I question the ad's number of surviving '62 Hawks too. There were twice as many '62's built as '63's, and 5 1/2 times as many '62's built as '64's. I don't care much what the newsstand magazine values are; after looking at them often for over twenty years and seeing many discussions on ones bought and sold, all other things equal, the '62's are the lowest-priced GT's to buy; '63's next, and '64's highest. The difference isn't dramatic, but it's there.

The car's lines make one think it's smaller than it is. At a 120.5 inch wheelbase, it's longer than both a Riv and a Thunderbird...at least in wheelbase. Going from memory, I'm thinking the T-Bird's was 114 but I'm too lazy to look.

uplanderguy

I had mentioned here before that a Facebook friend of mine (I've never met him) is having his low-mileage '64 Studebaker Avanti featured in an episode of Seinfeld's "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee". I've heard of, but never seen, the show. Here's a trailer where you can spot the Avanti in a couple or three places. Fin, if you're watching, there's also a Gullwing Benz shown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4c9vphFoSk

I love the show 'Seinfeld', but I have to say, looking for the cars was the high point of watching that trailer, for me.

fintail

That and the Mazda Cosmo Sport caught my eye - another car once not worth much that is now quite valuable.

explorerx4

Hey uplanderguy,
Locally, we have a series 'Cruisin New England'.
I'm watching a Studebaker themed episode.
Look for it, although it's not on the net just yet.
The series is on Youtube.

uplanderguy

Thanks for the tip explorer! I will definitely check it out! I am on vacation in Savannah, GA right now and using the hotel computer.

sda

uplanderguy said:

Thanks for the tip explorer! I will definitely check it out! I am on vacation in Savannah, GA right now and using the hotel computer.

If you haven't done so already, tour Fort Pulaski, it is really neat. It is maybe a 20 minute drive towards Tybee Island. Enjoy Savannah, we always do.

fintail

Funny thing, just yesterday I was talking with a friend about the last time I visited Savannah, around 4 years ago I think. Pretty place.

berri

I think Savannah and Charleston (SC) are particularly nice to visit in spring.

Mr_Shiftright

Looked at a '27 Studebaker the other day (pic below). Hey, it's "postwar"---post WW I !

It hasn't run in over 40 years. Looks to be a Model EU "Dictator" or maybe "Standard Six".

Not worth a whole lot. Solid car though. Not a speck of rust to be seen and the "wood is good".

uplanderguy

Re.: Savannah trip--I won't drive that far on vacation again, LOL! About 1,600 miles in six days.

I had really no input into the trip. My wife thought, "Beaches for us; history for Bill!", but honestly, I'm more into seeing places I've read about or know something about, than going someplace to see what they present as historical. They went to Tybee Island one day; I hung around the hotel and went to a train museum right next to the hotel.

We did eat well the whole week though. My favorite place was "The Olde Pink House" downtown. Not that I'd necessarily know, but that was probably the closest thing to four-or-five-star dining I'd ever been--atmosphere, service, and food. Very southern--while the family had seafood, I had a fried pork chop as big as a plate, homemade mac-and-cheese, and fried onions, and pan gravy--the biscuits and cornbread were sweet with a hint of bacon flavor, just wonderful.

Coming home Thursday night, we drove right into torrential downpours in northern VA and southern WV; black out and zero visibility. We stayed overnight in Princeton, WV on I-77. I've never been happier to see a hotel. This was after being stuck in miserable Charlotte traffic earlier in the evening. I lived in a town of less than 10K people 'til I was 22, and 36 years later, I still detest traffic worse than anything.

I know it's easy and common to knock WV, but I'd say it was by far the most scenic part of the entire drive down there and back.

Mr_Shiftright

They are sure suffering now.

uplanderguy

Yes, they sure are. Where the Greenbrier resort is, they're completely flooded, and much of the state is in a state of emergency still.

uplanderguy

Here's the Avanti episode of "Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee", with Seinfeld and J.B. Smoove, that's currently playing. The Avanti is at the beginning and near the end. The car is a '64 R1 and has 12K miles. Jerry says it was designed 'near Las Vegas' which is really Palm Springs, CA, but that's OK.

http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/j-b-smoove-everybody-respects-a-bloody-nose

uplanderguy

Daydreaming on eBay, and saw this '63 one-ton Studebaker Diesel truck listed. No one else offered a Diesel one-ton at the time. Yes, the cab is dated for the time, but I always liked that styling, with the white fiberglass toothy grille, and the concealed cab step. I'll be curious what she brings. Limited market, obviously. I know there has to be extremely little history on actual sales of these recently. I know I haven't seen one probably in at least a decade. Also, neat 45-second color TV commercial about Studebaker Diesels at the bottom of the ad.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-8E15-/162175455278?forcerrptr=true&hash=item25c269102e:g:UVcAAOSwMtxXuKa5&item=162175455278

berri

Older and unusual trucks; I've always been a bit partial to the IH ones, both pickup and suv. As for the Studebakers, I'm more into their wagons than their trucks. Both their mid 50's Conestaga models and their 60's models.

uplanderguy

I always liked that they continued to build trucks right to the end of U.S. production, distinguishing them a bit from other independent automakers I think.

Internationals used the '64-65 Studebaker full wheelcover later on their Travelall models.

I like I-H trucks too, though a buddy of mine who used to wrench on them said if I worked on them I wouldn't like them. I don't care...I don't work on them and they're different!

The I-H dealer building in my hometown is now a very neat and unique restaurant called "The Bent Fork" and is run by the most delightful, artsy-fartsy lady. I wish an I-H club in western PA would decide to meet there.

berri

You do have to respect that. I'm guessing the truck segment was at least incrementally profitable for them.

fintail

Cool truck, please remove those imperfectly aligned "DIESEL" stickers on the front

uplanderguy

Good point; I hadn't even noticed. Believe it or not, from the factory they had the black "DIESEL" lettering there, although I was thinking (not sure) the lettering was indented in the grille and painted black. I could be wrong. I'm thinking that in this restoration a non-Diesel grille was used and the lettering, about in the right size and location, was applied, but they are a bit crooked. At least they're not two inches high or low, or a different color than original, which makes me crazy!

EDIT: I see in the commercial included at the bottom of the eBay ad, the grilles are all painted the color of the truck, although it looks like these examples were painted commercially in the buyers' colors. I know I have seen black "DIESEL" lettering on the white fiberglass grille before. You're still right...make sure they're straight!

uplanderguy

Speaking of I-H's earlier, about a half-hour ago I got done with waxing my daughter's Cobalt (she's taking it 4.5 hours away to college next weekend). A '70's I-H Travellall, pea green with woodgrain on the side and full black vinyl top, drove by. The owner lives maybe three miles from me, in a nice old farmhouse mostly surrounded by fifteen-year-old housing developments. One day six or seven years ago, my garage door was up and he pulled in to talk a little, as he had seen my white Lark in the garage. Nice guy but I haven't spoken to him since.

uplanderguy

berri, speaking of wagons, I've seen the car shown in the link below a couple times; the last time at our club's international meet in South Bend in 2012, where it was driven from eastern PA. It just looks showroom-fresh everywhere you look, which is something I love--even down to things like whitewall width. It's a '64 Daytona Wagonaire with the sliding roof, and is a 3-speed transmission car...I'm thinking it was overdrive too but I am not sure.

http://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/rr64daywagfa.jpg

berri

Nice color too. But now you got me thinking back to Mr. Ed

fintail

I wonder if I could troll a Studebaker meet in the fintail, showing up and saying it belongs because it was sold at a Studebaker dealer

Mine was actually sold at a building that was originally a Packard dealer, it's still in use as a MB dealer, too.

uplanderguy

There typically isn't a M-B class at a Stude meet, but I don't think you'd be turned away.

uplanderguy

My little hometown Stude dealer also sold M-B's, surprisingly at first to me. Not all Stude dealers did.