Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy

I love that site, thanks. The Avanti, like most Studebakers, was a love-it-or-hate-it design, but I do think it was modern in several ways, like having curved side glass, lack of fake scoops and was almost devoid of chrome, came standard with disc brakes, had what the mags considered the best bucket seats available domestically, and had an automatic trans that could be shifted manually through three forward gears. I wish I could afford one now.

fintail

Just crack open your 401K or get a HELOC, it's the American way

I like the Avanti as well, but I greatly prefer earlier round light cars. The updated lights just aren't right to my eyes.

uplanderguy

I used to say that all the time, that I preferred the round-headlight cars, but lately I've found myself daydreaming about a late '64, with the square headlight enclosures, woodgrained interior and wheel, thicker seat backs, and larger "Supercharged" front fender emblems. There were many small Avanti running changes in the eighteen-month production run, and a late '64 will have all of them.

Tomorrow, I might think differently, LOL.

As we've discussed before, I am just not interested at all in Avanti II's, other than it's an automotive story that is about as against-the-odds as the U.S. presidential election this past week. I strongly dislike the reduced-radius front wheel openings, and that the downwards 'rake' went away.

The story is interesting. A Studebaker dealer actually got bank financing to continue building a car from a company that had just failed to stay in business assembling in the U.S.A. That takes confidence, LOL. He had written that he went in to Gene Hardig, Studebaker engineering VP, and asked him to come work for the Avanti company, after he had engineered the Chevrolet-based engines to fit in the '65 and '66 Canadian-built Studebakers. At first, Hardig ordered him out of his office, saying he was wasting his time. But the dealer, Nate Altman, persisted by saying "All your life you've had to worry about spending 50 cents on a part. With me, you won't have to worry about that at all". Hardig worked for a good number of years at Avanti II.

fintail

Well, I hope the new against the odds story works out better than Avanti I've considered Avanti to be the American Bristol. Bristol was a British maker that was really unique and modern in 40s through the early 60s maybe, but then became a favorite of weird old affluent cultists, and soldiered on for decades making a handful of expensive odd old looking cars until it kind of evaporated a few years ago, and has been tentatively reborn - but I am not holding my breath.

I think the Avanti is one of the few cars where the reverse angle C-pillar works.

uplanderguy

I think the reverse C-pillar works only because it's offset by the huge, wraparound rear window. In fact, in profile, I get the Avanti rear window look in '77-79 Chevy full-size coupes, although that's the only similarity!

Studebaker was still in business when the Avanti and truck rights were sold to Nate Altman....that'd be like Chevy selling the Corvette to an independent maker, LOL. Altman bought the building and tooling the Avanti and trucks were built in/with, but of course did not continue assembly of trucks. The first Avanti II was a '65 and they were built in South Bend 'til '85 I think, before it moved to Youngstown, OH. Again, I don't like the cars but they held on a long time, really against most odds.

I was in the Avanti building in South Bend in '85 while a friend from my hometown who worked for Chrysler got a job application for Youngstown there. He was hired as a jack-of-all-trades in Youngstown, basically, and quit a job as a Zone Service Manager at Chrysler to work for Avanti...true story. Youngstown closed in '91 I think. I was in that plant on a Saturday when no production was going on, too.

fintail

Those 77-79 Chevy "sport coupes" (?) are pretty cool, those have caught my eye since I was a kid. Now that I think of it, it is amusing that Chevy did something so unique.

Something that comes to my mind for the Avanti rear window is the Jensen Interceptor:



This debuted in 1966. Now that I look at it, it also has a reverse C-pillar. Maybe some influence.

I have to imagine Avanti production was really low after 1980 or so.

uplanderguy

I think I've seen or heard someone else compare the Avanti to the Interceptor. The one does remind me of the other in small but significant ways.

Below is a chart of Avanti production, including the II's. I was surprised to see the peak II production year to be 1983. But that is the year Steve Blake from D.C. bought the company. He soon was known for having paint problems on the cars.

http://www.theavanti.net/production.html

It has been said that Nate Altman didn't care about becoming rich on the cars, he just truly loved the Avanti. He had been a Packard dealer (with partner Leo Newman) for many years, picking up a Studebaker franchise in South Bend with the merger. He also sold Edsels. But he said he never loved the business so much as the Studebaker years, as being a local dealer he was called into the office even on product decisions. I met a lady in South Bend at a meet, who showed up out of curiosity, and said she and her husband had bought a new II some time earlier and that "Nate was just great" about being polite, interested after the sale, personally picking their car up for service, etc.

uplanderguy

Here's an up-close shot of the instrument panel in the last Studebaker Avanti:

https://assets.blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2014/10/lastAvanti_03_2500.jpg

Someone on the S.D.C. site posted some time back, minutes of executive meetings during 1963. There was one discussing adding the fake-wood wheel to the Avanti. Stude prez Sherwood Egbert liked it. Someone else commented "it looks cheap". End of minutes: "Mr. Egbert approved the wheel for production", LOL.

fintail

I am kind of shocked those malaise era numbers are so low, but then again, maybe not. The car was the definition of a niche product, and wasn't exactly inexpensive. The labor of love aspect has to be respected, too.

sda

This is a road test of the Avanti II. Fun and impressive.
https://youtu.be/DlzrENG2Nvc

uplanderguy

Thanks for posting...I'm not sure they actually sold a supercharged 327 (as opposed to this car being one-of-one), but it's too bad the Chevy engine is so tall that adding a blower required that unsightly (IMHO) hood bulge.

By this time, they were still using the "pirate buckle" emblems on the interior door panels and console, but without the "S" that used to be on them, LOL!

That's some dramatic music.

sda

I enjoy watching the reviews the Lindemann did in the late 60's thru the mid 70's. He is kind of dry but amusing They really put the car thru the paces. You can really see how the performance of the cars suffered from '73 on. I guess Motor Week was influenced by his format.

sda

I saw this '63 today at the Charlotte New Car Auto Show. Unfortunately it was crowded and I could not get a good angle. I like the color with the bone interior.

uplanderguy

Nice period-correct aftermarket wheels, too. That gold color and light interior were used in a lot of the early brochure photos and ads.

Like it or not, one can see how different in styling concept the car was from similar-year Big Three offerings sitting around it.

That gunsight scoop on the hood carries into the interior of the car--the top of the hooded instrument pod is the exact width of that scoop on the other side of the windshield.

Thanks for sharing!

fintail

Those wheels add sport without being offensive. The round lights really look better to me, how it was "meant to be" maybe.

uplanderguy

This month marks 53 years since the Studebaker plant in South Bend, Indiana, closed down after 111 years of production. The South Bend engine plant did continue until June 1964, providing engines for Hamilton, Ontario assembly which lasted until March 1966.

The last car off the 'regular' production line (i.e., Lark-types and Hawks) was built on Dec. 20. The company saved the car and it is the Studebaker National Museum, with 28 miles on the odometer...unrestored, a real N.O.S. Studebaker. Are there any other production (not one-off) cars anywhere preserved like this? If there is, I haven't heard of them.

I think the frontal styling is still modern-looking today.

This '64 Daytona is equipped with the Avanti R1 engine (240 hp), 4-speed, tach, disc brakes, and individual front bench seats, but oddly, no radio. The Daytona hardtop was base-priced right about at the Chevy II Nova two-door hardtop. Only 2,414 Daytona hardtops were made for '64, and that includes both South Bend and Hamilton, Ontario production. It's among the most-desired Studes out there. I owned one and would love another one.

http://usautoindustryworldwartwo.com/images/Studebaker/daytona-1964-107w-1.jpg

The car is on a transport trailer in this pic--before it was pulled off. The car was a customer order and was eventually replaced for the customer, with another car in stock with options then added and deleted.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/12/21/automobiles/21STUDEBAKER-top/21STUDEBAKER-top-jumbo.jpg

This pic was taken on 12/20/63. Note the flag at half-mast for JFK.

https://studebakermuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/1963-Dec-20-1963-last-SB-day.jpg

Avantis were actually last built on Dec. 26, and trucks on Dec. 27, but they were built outside the normal assembly-line building.

sda

Even though it was 50 year ago it makes me sad seeing the last Studebaker produced just like when Olds production ended years later. Imehttp://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040429/040429_oldsmobile_hmed2p.grid-6x2.jpg

fintail

Something I saw on another forum: a RHD Lark spotted at a car show in Australia last weekend:

uplanderguy

That's a '61. On a Stude Australia Facebook page, just a couple days ago I saw my old white Skytop driving by.

There's another guy over there who has a green one like this red one in your pic--that two-tone and side trim is not factory, but the lower molding is actually the upper molding placed upside down, which gives a decent center area to paint white.

uplanderguy

Was that last Olds an Alero? I'm thinking I remember it was. Thanks for posting the pic.

If someone had told me twenty-five years ago that Plymouth, Mercury, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac would be gone, I'd have thought they were a lunatic.

I'm an anachronism, but the good ol' days really were the good ol' days for me.

uplanderguy

One nice thing, and really I think it's somewhat amazing, is that besides that red '64 Studebaker with 28 miles, the very last Studebaker, a '66, is in the Studebaker National Museum with just under 20K miles. It was actually sent to South Bend from Hamilton (Studebaker Corporate remained in South Bend) and was given to a couple executives to drive, and in '69 it was retired and given to the City of South Bend.

The last Hawk survives as well, in private hands; the last Studebaker Avanti is in the Crawford Auto and Aviation Museum in Cleveland, OH. Unfortunately, the last truck was sold to the Government Services Administration and was probably used up. Ironically, that was the last production Studebaker built in the U.S.

sda

It was an Alero. Those that produced the last one signed it under hood. Here is a better picture. I really like the dark cherry color that they used on the Final 500 and special details unique to them--Intrigue and Aurora, too.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M062bbabbd28e774c5955c8f7972be66co0&w=259&h=172&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&o=4&dpr=1.5&pid=1.1

uplanderguy

Is the car in a museum or was it sold retail, do you know?

berri

25 years ago was 1991 - I think some rumors were already out there. The biggest surprise may have been Olds because there was a lot of speculation that Pontiac would be the division dropped. The real surprise may have been that both ended up gone. Mercury had been a Ford me-too for many years. I think the only reason Lincoln didn't also go shutting down the entire LM division may have been the limo business and fleet sales. Mopar sealed either Dodge or Plymouth's fate well before the actual thing and Dodge had the trucks! Sad looking back, but a lot of foreign brands brought some nice new models here. At least by the time of these brand shutdowns styling wasn't being changed all that much anymore, so it was probably inevitable and the various brands weren't all that exciting anymore like in the old days. I was probably saddest about Oldsmobile. John Rock had started renovating that brand, but I guess it was too little, too late for the economics at the time.

As for Studebakers, I know you don't want to hear this Uplander - but I think American Motors just had better overall management and leadership. All Studebaker accomplished was overpaying for an already dying Packard thereby sucking away a bunch of cash flow. Leadership ego kept them from listening to George Mason and becoming part of the proposed Nash, Hudson mergers. If it had joined the American Motors proposal I think some of their models may have gone longer. But thus is the reality in corporate executive suites where senior executive ego's often go against the principals of capitalism and forgo the right economic decisions.

uplanderguy

American Motors was indeed better-managed. Studebaker was still operating in some buildings from the carriage days. But to me, Stude's products were far-more inspired--for the most part. I think that is somewhat reflected in values, generally--but not always of course.

Actually, it was Packard that bought Studebaker, not the other way around. But by '56, they were the bigger loser of the two, and the Board and Curtiss-Wright chose appropriately. In 1959, first year without something named "Packard" in the product line, they made their biggest profit in 107 years. Short-lived when the Big Three compacts came out though.

Speaking only personally, I can't tell you how much more I'd prefer that red Daytona above to the same year Chevy II, which was priced similarly. Only a 283 was available for the first time in '64 for Chevy II, at 195 hp. Powerglide two-speed auto the only automatic. No disc brakes or full instrumentation, of course, In fact, in '64, there wasn't even a two-door hardtop Chevy II--it was dropped from the previous year, probably because of the new Chevelle. (The body style was reintroduced for '65). It had small wheel openings, IMHO. But of course, styling is subjective. No one in my family ever had a Studebaker, and I grew up on Chevys, but I'm old enough to remember Studebakers and that is why I appreciate them. The excellent parts situation, for later Studes, was just gravy.

I always liked the surprised look from people when they'd come over to my car. Often I'd be the only Studebaker at a general cruise-in, among the many Chevelles and Novas and Camaros.

berri

I thought Studebaker had some nice contemporary design into the mid 60's, but rumors of their demise probably made it kind of moot for the sales volume. Post war Studebaker had some interesting styles and like AMC, accomplished some great design on a shoestring. Personally, I liked those more angular Daytona's to the rounded early Larks. The early Larks looked kind of girly to me (of course a Frenchman was involved, so maybe that was appropriate after all!). If George Mason's strategy had come to fruition, I'm thinking Studebaker would have been their mid-level brand, but who knows. George Romney changed all of that after Mason's death with the elevation of Rambler as their main product line. Turned out to be a smart move for AMC. I sure would have liked to see those mid 60's Studebaker prototypes come to the market. They seemed very advanced styling for the times, yet their design angles would have fit right in with what Ford and Chrysler were doing at the time. If Olds had made it I think we might have seen some interesting product design under the new GM management. What if's are always fun to think about. As for 1964, that's a tough year for me to pick. A lot of stuff was (sometimes over) gussied up design of previous models. Maybe the Dodge coupe simply because I liked the roofline and C-pillar design. Your Daytona was a good looking car for that year though. Not overly formal, but still looked more expensive than it really was. Of course, that's just my opinion

uplanderguy

My gut feeling is that the later Daytonas and Cruisers had a more formal look than other cars their size. That said, they weren't cannibalizing sales from larger Studebakers by doing that, either...there weren't any larger Studebakers, other than the Hawk, which was actually on a longer wheelbase than a full-size Chevrolet of the same year although doesn't look like it. But the Hawk was a fringe product.

I sat in an excellent, original '60 Lark VIII Regal four-door a few weeks back. Black with red interior. I'm like you--I like the longer, later Larks much better. That said, I could see why the '59 and '60 sold so well...big interior in a small package, and V8's and body styles (four-door wagon, convertible) that Rambler and the Big Three didn't offer in a compact in '59-60. I do like the early Lark convertible--there's a cuteness there that's not in the later cars. Something about early Larks always reminded me of the character "Boo Boo Bear" in the 'Yogi Bear' cartoon series, LOL!

I mentioned this '60 Lark I sat in, to my Studebaker dealer friend on the phone the other day. His was a small family operation, but they had to add a salesman in '59 to handle Lark customers. His feeling was that those cars were well-built too. Between he and his dad, they sold Studes in our town for forty years.

uplanderguy

I always liked this promo piece, about the introduction of the '64 models:

http://www.studebakergarage.com/images/1964_lark.jpg

I have always admired Sherwood Egbert. Hands-on guy. In my mind, I'm reminded of JFK. He was three years younger than JFK, but like him, was the "president" from 1961-63, and both died young.

I'm very interested in the JFK assassination, and in looking at many things over the years related to it, came across a White House daily schedule for one day that had "Meet with Mr. Egbert of Studebaker". I'm sure he was lobbying for government business. Supposedly he was always hitting on the governor of Indiana to buy Studebaker products.

I remember reading a newspaper article maybe five years ago, from California, where the author said he wrote Egbert a letter in '62 or '63, expressing his interest in working at Studebaker. Egbert actually invited him to South Bend to meet him and take a tour. Can you imagine that happening now?

I've met Egbert's secretary (now deceased) a couple times, at South Bend big meets. Her name was Martha Fleener and would come out from California where she lived. Very classy older lady...the "gatekeeper" back then.

Mr_Shiftright

He was constantly at war with the board of directors it seems. I don't think they were much interested in success.

sda

In the past year or so I have really enjoyed following and participating in this forum. I had a basic knowledge of Studebaker/Packard and thought it sad that so many smaller players ended up shuttering their companies in the mid 50's-60's. You can now say that I am a Studebaker fan! This may have been discussed before, where did, or did Studebaker have a primary market where they sold the best? Was it more towards Indiana and the mid-west? Having grown up in the south and southeast, Studebakers are a rare sight. In the Charlotte area I cannot recall the last time I saw one or a Packard driving down the road for that Sunday drive. Only time I see them is at a car show of some sort.

I don't know where the last Olds ended up. It is fun to think about the 'what ifs'. I did think John Rock was on the right track of redirecting Olds and he helped bring some fresh and distinctive product that was tastefully styled, aimed at a younger market, and had a European flair to it. I thought it was a positive sign when Olds was tasked to introduce the '01 Bravada to market before Chevy and Buick. Olds in the lead--how cool. I owned a couple of the last models of Olds, '00 Intrigue GL and '01 Aurora 4.0 and really liked them. They rode and drove well and were satisfying to own.

One thing I've read and don't know how much weight to give it was the perception of the name Oldsmobile, i.e. younger buyers perceived it as 'old' and not for them. I know Olds had many marketing campaigns to appeal to the younger buyers, '68 Youngmobiles', 'This isn't your father's Oldsmobile', etc. I remember hearing the announcement on the radio that Olds would be no longer. I was driving to Birmingham to see my sister and I felt like I had just lost a friend, well kind of, and sad. I won't hi-jack the conversation any further.

uplanderguy

He was constantly at war with the board of directors it seems. I don't think they were much interested in success.

I think that's true. The diversification program stepped up during his tenure but I'm not sure the Board thought he'd be so interested in the auto business.

Mr_Shiftright

Well anyway he became very ill and couldn't fight back anymore. Soon he was dead.

fintail

That ad copy is what I imagine MB of the era also using to sell its cars. Not too big and crazy, not too small and cheap. Built to a standard, safety, performance potential.

uplanderguy said:

I always liked this promo piece, about the introduction of the '64 models:
.

uplanderguy

Egbert drove Avantis and also M-B's. Totally understandable, but I have heard more than once that some of the diehards at the plant didn't appreciate that!

Maybe six months ago, a longtime Stude buff in the national club who used to go to South Bend when Studebaker was still there, sent me one of Egbert's business cards. I have it under the glass on my desk here. Funny, I've seen other Studebaker business cards and they have a phone number on them. Egbert's just has the Administration Building address on it. I guess you just didn't phone the president, LOL.

berri

I think that some of the Studebaker company diversification like Andy Granatelli and STP provided cash flow to let them keep producing cars a few years longer.

uplanderguy

For sure. 1962 was the last year they exceeded 100,000 production of cars (not counting trucks).

uplanderguy

I think both the names "Oldsmobile" and "Studebaker" hurt image--they just sounded stodgy.

I have a friend who attended GM mechanics' school in the late sixties. He is completely convinced that Oldsmobile was the technology division, and to this day believes their engines were better than other GM divisions back then.

RE.: Studebaker's market--I vaguely remember reading that they did best in Indiana (no surprise), Pennsylvania, and California, as to market share. When I first got into the hobby about 30 years ago, and I'd drive to South Bend for a meet, sometimes I'd stay off the interstate once I got to Indiana....I'd go on Route 6 or Route 20. You'd see Studebakers, often trucks, "outstanding in their field". Gone now, but I do think people were more prone to buy the local product then than now, sadly.

berri

I think there is some truth to that comment on Olds. Seems like from the late 40's many new technologies were initially brought out by GM through Oldsmobile including the Rocket V8 and truly automatic transmission.

Mr_Shiftright

Probably the hot rod culture helped Studebaker in California--that's where they built so many "Studallacs" (did I spell that correctly?) and of course the Bonneville salt flats aren't too far away. But the Studebaker and Oldsmobile simply did not register with the late 50s/early 60s youth culture. I don't think there was a Studebaker or an Olds in "American Graffiti" was there? (1973)

fintail

I wonder what kind of MB Egbert drove, I imagine a W111 coupe or cabrio, or maybe a Ponton coupe or cabrio. I imagine a sedan was too mundane.

uplanderguy

I've never seen the movie except in pieces, but I've always heard there's a '55 Loewy coupe in the movie, with a couple girls in it. The main characters talk to the girls and ask where they're from and they mention a California city (Turlock maybe?) where Stude club members have long-said there was a successful Studebaker dealer, by coincidence no doubt.

Not sure fin about which M-B Egbert drove, but there was a photo in the national club magazine probably twenty years ago or more, which showed the start of a South Bend parade of new '63-model Studebaker cars and trucks. The Studebaker Administration Building is in the pic and parked smack out front is a 230 (I think) coupe--the kind that was built well after that period of time too (fall '62). Parked where it was, and it being a Benz, made me always wonder if that was Egbert's car.

Ironically, on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum the past few days, supposedly Egbert's grandson has gotten in touch with someone about being interested in Egbert's personal '64-model Avanti which sold at auction a few years ago at $75K.

EDIT: Looking online, it was a 220 coupe I remember in that photo, like this one, but light colored:

http://bringatrailer.com/2013/10/29/no-reserve-1962-mercedes-benz-220se-coupe/

berri

I can only speak from a growing up in the Chicago area perspective, and that area was a big GM market; but in the 60's Olds did attract younger buyers with vehicles like the Cutlass as well as its 442 variant. In the 70's Olds porked up and started appealing more to middle age and older buyers, although it also seemed to snatch more than a few recent college grads with its Cutlass. That worked for awhile as Cutlass became a huge seller and you'd see quite a few 88's. Unfortunately Olds didn't wake up to its dependence on aging buyers until John Rock came onboard, far too late in the game. But Pontiac lost its hold as well frankly and Japan took over a lot of the youth market (even from VW). But the move to homogenize GM (and Fomoco for that matter) product lines in the 80's to reduce costs basically backfired by causing a loss of product differentiation. Now "American Graffiti"; Olds perhaps was too expensive for youth in those days. Didn't see lots of Buick's or Chrysler's either.

It is hard to speculate on how Studebaker would have fared during this time frame because buyers were abandoning what they considered a sinking ship. But in the Chicago area growing up it seemed to always be more of a Rambler market when it came to independents. Young people short on funds seemed to gravitate to used Americans, but those who could afford more often seemed to go Big 3.

fintail

That's exactly what I imagined for Egbert, a 220SE coupe - that's a W111. I have to imagine those cars were among the height of elegance in 1961. They were a notch above a normal fintail, finished similarly to a W112 - a lot more wood, finer veneers, full leather. I think a car like that listed for maybe 9K or so back in 1961, not cheap, but maybe not a bad deal, as they aged gracefully.

An early promo shot, with Euro lights, and the wide whites I imagine were standard on all US-spec cars:



US spec promo material derived from the above pic, with awkwardly touched-up US spec lights:



This one brought 80K at auction a few years ago - an enormous price as solid enough drivers can be found for under 30K, but a top flight restoration on one of these has to be insanely expensive:

Mr_Shiftright

I had to laugh at the "sports car agility" ad copy, though. Sure, compared to a Buick.

fintail

That's exactly who they were likely targeting, the customers of higher Buicks and Cadillacs (many of whom would have hated a 134 cubic inch I6, no doubt). It'd be another 8-9 years before a V8 was available - and the car looked nearly identical even then.

Mr_Shiftright

American luxury car drivers weren't seduced by Mercedes' lures at that time. The amenities too sparse, the AC rather sad, the automatic shifting far too positive for American tastes, and the ride "too harsh" (aka not enough marshmallows in the suspension). And the manual transmission version had a rather regrettable shifting mechanism. Even a Hawk or Avanti would deliver far more comfort for the American driver than the most expensive Benz of the time.

The 220 Coupe was $9000. The Avanti was something like the $5K range.

fintail

I suspect the sometimes-harsh fluid coupling automatic didn't make highline GM (or Stude, for that matter) buyers smile either. For many years you couldn't get AC factory installed in these cars, it was all dealer add-on. What made the car sell was immense build quality and material quality, classic design, and that the brand became chic in affluent areas on both coasts. Many people are resentful of that idea in the bizarro world climate of December 2016, but I think it will always hold true, especially for consumer behavior.

uplanderguy

I've mentioned this here before, but I was surprised to see a couple or three M-B's traded in on later Studebakers in the '63-66 era at my small hometown dealer, per records at the Studebaker National Museum archives. But as I've said before, I think in a small town, people bought the dealer as much as the make. My dealer friend did say there was still some anti-German sentiment back then in our small, industrial town surrounded by farmland, but his Dad drove a 220 sedan and very-much enjoyed it, he said. I have a pic of it--black with red leather inside. It was a late-fifties-something, not sure of what year.

fintail

Late 50s would have been a Ponton, they were pretty much identical by model year, as MB always shunned annual updates. Something like this:

Mr_Shiftright

At least Studebaker had a German-sounding name but they are an old American family.