The Stude dealer that was nearest to me never sold MB. Pretty small building though, and with Seattle having a MB dealer, this then-small suburb probably wouldn't have supported it. The building is still in use today, and appears to have changed little over the years - it looks like a car dealership. Here's an old piece of data I found on the web:
Here's another shot, from that brief flash when Renault looked like the next big thing:
Bring it on in Fin. They'll give you a few beers and swindle you into trading it for a Studebaker - just kidding. Actually, I think the hobbyists would find it funny given the old relationship involved.
I remember back around that time that some gas stations actually sold oddball imports for awhile, at least around the Chicago area. Not surprising really, because it wasn't unusual for them to sometimes include a few used cars back in the 50's and early 60's, so it wasn't really a big step. Just get some metric tools for warranty work.
I always liked that '60's Studebaker logo at the top of fin's post, above. I'd enjoy that '62 Lark convertible now.
A few years back, I spent a day at the Archives at the Studebaker National Museum. My hometown dealer was no. 0097, and from Sept. '63-April '66 I could find each new Studebaker they sold, and to whom, and what they traded in. At least two, or maybe three, had M-B's traded in on Studes. That surprised me. As I've mentioned, our town's population was under 9,000 in the 1960 census, although that is probably a little misleading as it was ten miles of rural in each direction, and those people probably considered themselves part of my hometown.
I do think that in a small town, sometimes you bought the dealer as much as you bought the make of car he sold.
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In today's Automobile Magazine blog, an appreciation of '62-63 Lark Daytonas, including a mention of the author's parents' '58 M-B, bought at a Stude dealer:
I can nitpick that '62 for authenticity items, but it looks like a decent driver.
I remember Bob Merlis' 1983 Car and Driver article, "The Studey Zone", where he drove the '62 from LA to South Bend for the S.D.C. international meet that year. That was before I belonged. It was written a bit tongue-in-cheek, about the Studebaker mania he encountered there.
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Enjoying this color pic of a gentleman picking up his new '62 Champ half-ton pickup at the South Bend plant in December '61. I'd very much enjoy that very truck today. Neat to see new '62 Larks, Hawks, and trucks sitting in the storage lot in the background of the pic.
When I was a kid, a friend of my dad had a Champ in that same color. It was in pretty good shape. He also had a mid 60s Dodge A100 van that was in really nice shape, and he drove it everywhere. Nice old guy, I think he might have passed on several years ago.
Cool pics in that link too, I like the one with the Airstreams, and I think the one with Loewy (?) and the Avanti was taken in Nice or Monte Carlo.
I'm sorry there aren't any Benzes in that pic--I'd bet they weren't real far away at the time!
That is Loewy. I admire the guy's talent and salesmanship, but look at the big 'vee' he put on the front of his own Avanti. Yuck!
A friend of mine worked at Avanti when it moved to Youngstown, Ohio in the mid-to-late '80's. He said Viola Loewy used to call there from France, for parts, herself. They'd refer to her as either "Viola" or "The Widow Loewy".
The guy who lives a few miles from me who has the Travelall I mentioned not too long back, has a mid-sixties Dodge minivan with the pop-up camper top--green and white two-tone. I usually see it motoring around a couple times in the summer, but I didn't see it at all this year. I like those but I think the fact that they had a two-piece windshield was a bit unusual. That said, the Chevy vans built at the same time seemed even more primitive to me.
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There are those who believe that while Loewy was talented, he took credit from many others work. Of course the same is sometimes heard about Lee Iaccoca and his product line successes. My guess; part true, part sour grapes.
I've heard that too, berri. Supposedly he was a master in getting management to buy into what he and his staff were doing. I guess he deserves credit for that.
I had the privilege of meeting Tom Kellogg, one of Loewy's small design group responsible for the Avanti. He couldn't have been nicer. He was in South Bend during an Avanti 30th anniversary celebration I was at. He confirmed that Loewy about had those guys locked up in the house in Palm Springs while they were designing the Avanti in a crash program. No phones, clocks unplugged, and no wives or girlfriends, LOL.
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IIRC Virgil Exner was heavily involved in Studebaker's post war models before being hired by Chrysler. Exner worked for Loewy at the time I think. Several other designers that went on to bigger things were also involved, but I can't recall their names right now.
That '63 Studebaker 1-ton Diesel discussed here last week, was bid to $14,201.00 and is being picked up by its new owner tonight, per a note I just saw on a Stude Facebook page.
That '63 Studebaker 1-ton Diesel discussed here last week, was bid to $14,201.00 and is being picked up by its new owner tonight, per a note I just saw on a Stude Facebook page.
That truck is really neat. Interesting to see the manual radiator shutters. The shift pattern looks awkward. With your love for the Lark and other Studebakers, any in your future? I really liked your previous Lark. It would be one I'd like to have.
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I've had three, but I miss that white one terribly. I had it 23 years and had it restored as a driver. I was involved in the parts-gathering but not the restoration itself.
I could really like a truck like that, honestly, although I can't imagine it'd be very fun on the highway. I understand the diesels are noisy.
Funny, on Facebook I came across a '64 Daytona Hardtop, Bermuda Brown (I actually like that color), 22K miles on the odometer and title, perfect brown vinyl bucket seat interior with floor shift automatic (PRND21), and 259 V8. It has some bubbling in the lower left fender and a patch in the driver's floor, not great I know. Seller has it on mag wheels which look nice. I looked further and it's only 25 miles from me! A little research on the part of a friend of mine shows it was delivered new one town over from where it is now, so sadly it's been in salty NE OH its whole life. Seller is an Olds guy and said he wanted $6K OBO, but seems to be acquiescing now ("I'm liking it more and am thinking of driving it myself"). Wife said, "We have a home equity line of credit, right?". It's tempting, but when I do buy one--and I'd better wait until second daughter is out of college--I need to buy one that's as solid and turnkey as possible.
There were only 2,414 of that model and bodystyle built, and that's combined South Bend and Hamilton, Ontario production.
I'm liking those a lot lately.
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fintail, you can bring your fintail to this show! Yeah I know, distance ridiculous. The fellow giving the talk was the son of a Stude dealer in East Liverpool, Ohio.
Studebaker/Packard/Mercedes-Benz Family Reunion!
The Eastern North Carolina Chapter would like to cordially invite you to The 2016 Studebaker/Packard/Mercedes-Benz Family Reunion on Saturday, November 5, starting at 1:00pm in Raleigh, NC!
What started as a simple club meet has turned into quite a re-gathering of the old gang. We asked Joe Parsons (58 Hawk here on the forum) to give his presentation on the Studebaker/Mercedes-Benz connection. Then Joe mentioned that the local Mercedes-Benz club might be interested in hearing the story as well, so we invited them. Then one of their members said he was also a member of the Old Dominion Packard Club and asked if THEY could come! So now it looks like we will have all three marques that shared showrooms in 1957-58 represented together again on November 5!
The meet will take place on the grounds of Oak View County Park, 4028 Carya Drive, Raleigh, just off Poole Road at I-440. The official start time is 1:00pm, but we expect some of our members to start arriving earlier. Oak View is a restored 19th-century farmstead and national historic district located east of downtown Raleigh. Joe's presentation is set to begin in the farmhouse parlor at 2:00pm and run about 45 minutes. Following that, everyone is welcome to stay and show off the cars, which is what it's all about, of course!
It sounds like we could have 50 or more cars among the three clubs, which would be terrific. There is no charge...just show up! I'm sure there will be questions. Feel free to contact me here or email me at SPMBreunion@gmail.com. Ya’ll come…and BRING THE FAMILY!
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fin, the fellow who's giving the talk has a burgundy and white ("Shadowtone Red", excuse me! LOL) '58 Golden Hawk that is simply stunning. I'm pretty sure he showed it at one of the hoidy-toidy national shows and walked away with a first in the past couple years.
Berri, among '50's independents I'm probably most-interested in Packard, since they bought Studebaker. I find the '55-56 models pretty interesting and I like most of the '57-58's since they are really Studebakers. After that, I probably appreciate Hudsons most. At my hometown's terrific (700 cars this year) annual car show, every year an unrestored and with patina, '54 Hudson 4-door shows up, low mileage, belonged to the current owner's grandmother since new. He's from about 25 miles away and always drives it up. They're so different in concept from other cars...in that way like Studebaker, which is probably why I like them.
Nash was probably the best-managed of the independents in the fifties, but I just really don't like their cars. Just a personal opinion.
Willys' compact cars I find interesting, but not enough to want one.
I was born in 1958 and can remember Studebakers in our town, and even remember the Studebaker dealer a bit, so that's why I think I like them. That, plus they built trucks right 'til the U.S. end, and unlike Rambler, they played the performance card in '63 and '64 and I like that. Plus, my Dad worked at our post office and they used '63-64 Studebaker Zip-Vans. Just an opinion of course.
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Here's the fellow's '58 Golden Hawk, rarest year with under 1,000 produced. I'm not a fan of Golden Hawks, really, but his is really beautifully authentic.
I'd agree with that...plus they rolled the dice on a compact car and that worked out for them....right when medium-priced cars were hitting bottom. It basically enabled them to live a decade longer in the car biz than a lot of the other independents.
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Just recently posted on YouTube--I've met these folks once, briefly; first starting since 1989 of a supercharged '64 Gran Turismo Hawk, my favorite Studebaker model of all. I always liked the smooth decklid of the '64; the '62 and '63 still used the ribbed decklid introduced on the '56, but covered with a thin metal applique. The '64 decklid was retooled for what ended up being only 1,767 units.
I remember seeing a contemporary magazine review of a '64 supercharged Hawk and their only negative remark was underhood accessibility. Good grief, you can sure see that in this video.
The same folks own this '56 Golden Hawk which I've seen in person a few times at South Bend meets; it is the most beautiful Golden Hawk I've seen, and I love the factory, unusual color combo:
The same folks own this '56 Golden Hawk which I've seen in person a few times at South Bend meets; it is the most beautiful Golden Hawk I've seen, and I love the factory, unusual color combo:
They are heavy. And, you have to pull them towards you, then up. Most every Hawk hood I see has a kink in it by not being opened/closed properly. Pretty long hoods too, as they did the long-hood/short-deck styling thing earlier than a lot of cars. My Lark hoods stayed open without prop rods.
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I can't find a link to post here, but Neil Young posted on his Facebook page a half-an-hour ago, a new song called "Indian Givers" and he's clearly driving a Studebaker Avanti in the video, from the interior shots!
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Neil Young is the big Lincoln fan. He has one of those 58-60 huge Lincoln's he had converted to electric power I believe. As for Studebaker, there are Avanti fans and then there are Hawk GT fans.
I've seen that Lincoln. I think he called it the "LincVolt" or something like that. Googling around, I saw that he bought an Avanti in 2013 so it's apparently his car. Would be neat to get the serial number as the trail of ownership is recorded by the Avanti Owners Association, and as I've mentioned one can find out who the original owner was through the archives at the Studebaker National Museum.
Three or so years ago, with help from a couple experts, I was able to pinpoint the serial number of an Avanti, for a car which the lady original owner was trying to locate. It's nice when records like that are available and production was low enough that the task isn't impossible. The lady's car did survive but was a mongrel. She and her husband ended up buying a '64 in the same color, that I told them was only nine cars from the last Studebaker Avanti, probably not a value thing but interesting and because of it, the car included all the many upgrades and revisions Studebaker did to the Avanti along the way in production.
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Neil Young's YouTube video has been removed. Later the day I first saw it, some people were commenting negatively on his use of the word "squaw" in it. He actually replied that he would find another word to use and thanked people for the tip, explaining he meant no ill will. Then, the video was taken down.
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I can't remember if I posted this long ago - I think this pic was at the little MB museum facility at the factory in Alabama. Fintail in a Stude showroom:
I don't remember seeing that; thanks for posting. I love the '62-64 (or even '62-66) era and there aren't nearly as many photos out there as ten years earlier. The car just inside the doors--that's not a Benz, is it? My first impression was a Simca, but I don't think that's right. Stude prez Sherwood Egbert at this time, I think did a good job at making the Stude product more interesting. In my mind I liken him somewhat to JFK--both were 'heads' from '61 to '63, both were much younger men than their predecessors, etc.
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Nope, not a fintail, windshield angle is wrong along with the horizontal line on the fender. It also doesn't match a Simca Ariane or Aronde, not sure what it is.
Nope, not a fintail, windshield angle is wrong along with the horizontal line on the fender. It also doesn't match a Simca Ariane or Aronde, not sure what it is.
Turquoise '64 Avanti, first R3 Avanti of nine built at South Bend, and mounted on reproduction Halibrand mags with knockoffs. Halibrand wheels were a Studebaker-authorized option available through the dealer's Parts and Service department.
R3 Avantis don't have the usual nose-down attitude, even from the factory. Something to do with getting everything under the hood to fit.
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More pics of this R3 Avanti in turquoise, recently finished and on display last weekend at the Avanti Owners' Association International meet in Kansas City, below. I'm hard-pressed to think of a more-desirable Avanti in private (not museum) hands, other than possibly the one that was Studebaker president Sherwood Egbert's car which sold at auction a few years back for $75K. See post no. 62 below for the pics.
Comments
Here's another shot, from that brief flash when Renault looked like the next big thing:
The recent Google Earth view of the same building
That building and its 3/4 acre lot are now worth stupid money, assessed at about $3.5MM and I suspect would bring more in an actual sale.
A few years back, I spent a day at the Archives at the Studebaker National Museum. My hometown dealer was no. 0097, and from Sept. '63-April '66 I could find each new Studebaker they sold, and to whom, and what they traded in. At least two, or maybe three, had M-B's traded in on Studes. That surprised me. As I've mentioned, our town's population was under 9,000 in the 1960 census, although that is probably a little misleading as it was ten miles of rural in each direction, and those people probably considered themselves part of my hometown.
I do think that in a small town, sometimes you bought the dealer as much as you bought the make of car he sold.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/collectible-classic-1962-1963-studebaker-lark-daytona/?wc_mid=4035:3097&wc_rid=4035:1076571&_wcsid=5F38EB4024F1A17419B31E6DC7785DA45D21BFE043B329D6
I can nitpick that '62 for authenticity items, but it looks like a decent driver.
I remember Bob Merlis' 1983 Car and Driver article, "The Studey Zone", where he drove the '62 from LA to South Bend for the S.D.C. international meet that year. That was before I belonged. It was written a bit tongue-in-cheek, about the Studebaker mania he encountered there.
It's pic no. 6543 in the thread page below:
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?55365-Studes-in-Roadside-Americana-photos/page164
Round sticker on the windshield says "We Stand Behind the Quality of this Vehicle".
From the exterior trim, it's the Deluxe cab, which would include a sliding rear window, a Stude exclusive at that time.
The Champ was America's lowest-priced pickup.
Cool pics in that link too, I like the one with the Airstreams, and I think the one with Loewy (?) and the Avanti was taken in Nice or Monte Carlo.
That is Loewy. I admire the guy's talent and salesmanship, but look at the big 'vee' he put on the front of his own Avanti. Yuck!
A friend of mine worked at Avanti when it moved to Youngstown, Ohio in the mid-to-late '80's. He said Viola Loewy used to call there from France, for parts, herself. They'd refer to her as either "Viola" or "The Widow Loewy".
The guy who lives a few miles from me who has the Travelall I mentioned not too long back, has a mid-sixties Dodge minivan with the pop-up camper top--green and white two-tone. I usually see it motoring around a couple times in the summer, but I didn't see it at all this year. I like those but I think the fact that they had a two-piece windshield was a bit unusual. That said, the Chevy vans built at the same time seemed even more primitive to me.
I had the privilege of meeting Tom Kellogg, one of Loewy's small design group responsible for the Avanti. He couldn't have been nicer. He was in South Bend during an Avanti 30th anniversary celebration I was at. He confirmed that Loewy about had those guys locked up in the house in Palm Springs while they were designing the Avanti in a crash program. No phones, clocks unplugged, and no wives or girlfriends, LOL.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-8E15-/162175455278?forcerrptr=true&hash=item25c269102e:g:UVcAAOSwMtxXuKa5&item=162175455278
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I could really like a truck like that, honestly, although I can't imagine it'd be very fun on the highway. I understand the diesels are noisy.
Funny, on Facebook I came across a '64 Daytona Hardtop, Bermuda Brown (I actually like that color), 22K miles on the odometer and title, perfect brown vinyl bucket seat interior with floor shift automatic (PRND21), and 259 V8. It has some bubbling in the lower left fender and a patch in the driver's floor, not great I know. Seller has it on mag wheels which look nice. I looked further and it's only 25 miles from me! A little research on the part of a friend of mine shows it was delivered new one town over from where it is now, so sadly it's been in salty NE OH its whole life. Seller is an Olds guy and said he wanted $6K OBO, but seems to be acquiescing now ("I'm liking it more and am thinking of driving it myself"). Wife said, "We have a home equity line of credit, right?". It's tempting, but when I do buy one--and I'd better wait until second daughter is out of college--I need to buy one that's as solid and turnkey as possible.
There were only 2,414 of that model and bodystyle built, and that's combined South Bend and Hamilton, Ontario production.
I'm liking those a lot lately.
Studebaker/Packard/Mercedes-Benz Family Reunion!
The Eastern North Carolina Chapter would like to cordially invite you to The 2016 Studebaker/Packard/Mercedes-Benz Family Reunion on Saturday, November 5, starting at 1:00pm in Raleigh, NC!
What started as a simple club meet has turned into quite a re-gathering of the old gang. We asked Joe Parsons (58 Hawk here on the forum) to give his presentation on the Studebaker/Mercedes-Benz connection. Then Joe mentioned that the local Mercedes-Benz club might be interested in hearing the story as well, so we invited them. Then one of their members said he was also a member of the Old Dominion Packard Club and asked if THEY could come! So now it looks like we will have all three marques that shared showrooms in 1957-58 represented together again on November 5!
The meet will take place on the grounds of Oak View County Park, 4028 Carya Drive, Raleigh, just off Poole Road at I-440. The official start time is 1:00pm, but we expect some of our members to start arriving earlier. Oak View is a restored 19th-century farmstead and national historic district located east of downtown Raleigh. Joe's presentation is set to begin in the farmhouse parlor at 2:00pm and run about 45 minutes. Following that, everyone is welcome to stay and show off the cars, which is what it's all about, of course!
It sounds like we could have 50 or more cars among the three clubs, which would be terrific. There is no charge...just show up!
I'm sure there will be questions. Feel free to contact me here or email me at SPMBreunion@gmail.com. Ya’ll come…and BRING THE FAMILY!
Berri, among '50's independents I'm probably most-interested in Packard, since they bought Studebaker. I find the '55-56 models pretty interesting and I like most of the '57-58's since they are really Studebakers. After that, I probably appreciate Hudsons most. At my hometown's terrific (700 cars this year) annual car show, every year an unrestored and with patina, '54 Hudson 4-door shows up, low mileage, belonged to the current owner's grandmother since new. He's from about 25 miles away and always drives it up. They're so different in concept from other cars...in that way like Studebaker, which is probably why I like them.
Nash was probably the best-managed of the independents in the fifties, but I just really don't like their cars. Just a personal opinion.
Willys' compact cars I find interesting, but not enough to want one.
I was born in 1958 and can remember Studebakers in our town, and even remember the Studebaker dealer a bit, so that's why I think I like them. That, plus they built trucks right 'til the U.S. end, and unlike Rambler, they played the performance card in '63 and '64 and I like that. Plus, my Dad worked at our post office and they used '63-64 Studebaker Zip-Vans. Just an opinion of course.
Your car would be well-enjoyed at that meet I'm sure.
http://www.1956goldenhawk.com/58gh/58gh-joe%20parsons.jpg
I think Studebaker lasted as long as it did because its styling tended toward the clean side, which let them get more years out of it.
I remember seeing a contemporary magazine review of a '64 supercharged Hawk and their only negative remark was underhood accessibility. Good grief, you can sure see that in this video.
http://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/mark56gh.jpg
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They were well-built, too, but in a very old-fashioned way. Without gazillions of dollars, you can only do so much in the auto industry.
Ah, there it is - no shoulder belts or head restraints.
OMG, crank windows!
Three or so years ago, with help from a couple experts, I was able to pinpoint the serial number of an Avanti, for a car which the lady original owner was trying to locate. It's nice when records like that are available and production was low enough that the task isn't impossible. The lady's car did survive but was a mongrel. She and her husband ended up buying a '64 in the same color, that I told them was only nine cars from the last Studebaker Avanti, probably not a value thing but interesting and because of it, the car included all the many upgrades and revisions Studebaker did to the Avanti along the way in production.
I don't know about the Stude, but I think the fintail in the window is no newer than 1962.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Car lust, for me, anyway.
Turquoise '64 Avanti, first R3 Avanti of nine built at South Bend, and mounted on reproduction Halibrand mags with knockoffs. Halibrand wheels were a Studebaker-authorized option available through the dealer's Parts and Service department.
R3 Avantis don't have the usual nose-down attitude, even from the factory. Something to do with getting everything under the hood to fit.
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?97264-1st-of-the-9/page2