Postwar Studebakers

berri

I know Studebaker was primarily an Indiana plant (until Canada). But did they have one in California for awhile?

Mr_Shiftright

Don't think so, although I think John M. Studebaker initially made enough money there (Placerville, CA) to enable him to build wagons back in Indiana.

uplanderguy

The Vernon, CA ("Los Angeles") Studebaker assembly plant operated from 1938-56. It was assembly only (no stamping, etc.) but it was a long-standing assembly plant.

uplanderguy

That pic, fin, looks quite like my friend's Dad's car. The dealership name was Carl E. Filer Co.

fintail

I'm sure in small town OH/PA in the late 50s, that was an unusual sight indeed.

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

The Vernon, CA ("Los Angeles") Studebaker assembly plant operated from 1938-56. It was assembly only (no stamping, etc.) but it was a long-standing assembly plant.

Oh yeah I forgot about that! Very small output plant I've read. Something like 60 per day.

uplanderguy

Color pic of my hometown Stude-Packard dealer (later M-B as well) on Nov. 22, 1955. I posted this on a Stude Facebook page and someone then posted it on the S.D.C. site. It's pic no. 7171 (about ten down from the top) in this link:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?55365-Studes-in-Roadside-Americana-photos/page180

sda

uplanderguy said:

Color pic of my hometown Stude-Packard dealer (later M-B as well) on Nov. 22, 1955. I posted this on a Stude Facebook page and someone then posted it on the S.D.C. site. It's pic no. 7171 (about ten down from the top) in this link:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?55365-Studes-in-Roadside-Americana-photos/page180

Great pictures that tell a story. Why did all your cars end up in Australia? Did you sell to the same person?

uplanderguy

I sold all three to the same fellow, who is a broker-of-sorts there, of Studebakers. He sold both the '63 and '64 shortly after to retail customers in Australia. The '66, I sold to the same guy (broker) a year or so later. I had none really on the market, but people were always asking me about the '63, because of the optional equipment (R1 engine, factory air, Twin Traction, Skytop sunroof). I was getting nervous with college coming up for daughter number 1, so I did sell it and the '64 at the same time (the '64 was sold new by my hometown dealer but needed much more work than the eBay ad let on). The '66 was a rock-solid car, but I just didn't like it all that much. I was pursued on that one too. The Aussies are good buyers IMHO; you send good, honest pics, give them a price, and they bite. Very little dickering.

I very much miss the white '63, and my wife even admits that she does, too. The '64 was a good color, modestly equipped (V8, auto trans, no PS or PB, split bench reclining seats) and sold new in my hometown. I wish I had had the money to fix it up as it deserved.

fintail

Aussies love American cars. I've seen the place referred to as "Arkansas with a beach". Urban people there put on airs and try to pretend to be cultured Europeans (urban Canadians do the same, LOLOL), but outside of that, it's a little more real. In the past the Aussie dollar was worth more, which also helped with private imports. There's also a history there of aftermarket RHD conversions of new American cars going back generations.

The font on that Filer dealer sign is very 30s, must have been kind of a quaint anachronism by 1960. How long was that sign there? You need another old car, uplanderguy

uplanderguy

I do want another one, fin. A friend of mine says I should get an older GM to play with, since I'm not a wrench. I just wouldn't enjoy it as much as a Stude, although it probably would be easier to get a place to work on it.

uplanderguy

I have a photo of the Filer dealership in spring 1966, and that lettering is still on the building. Funny, that's a Studebaker font used in Parts Dept. signage in dealership buildings built in the '40's. At the Studebaker National Museum archives I actually found an architect's rendering of the building...same basic shape; apparently to give Mr. Filer an idea of what would fit on the lot size. That building was built in '46. Before then, they were in larger building but rented space there. That building is still in town too, but looks like it'd be a good place for a Halloween haunted house gig, LOL. The building in the pic in the link is still around and has been for sale for around $70K for probably going on four or five years.

fintail

There are so many neat old cars that can be had for 10K or even less. Raid that nest egg, you only live once

Sounds like that archive is amazing to have material like that. The building (not originally built as a Stude dealer, I think) and lot that used to be a Stude dealer about 5 blocks from me is now worth a healthy 7 figures.

When googling for any cool pics, I found this unusual anecdote:

uplanderguy

Wow, that was quite a sale through one dealership! The '62 and '63's are the most Benz-like in appearance, I think.

Mr_Shiftright

Studebaker truck on the Russian front, with rocket launcher:



Note: Do not sit in cab during launching.

uplanderguy

Short color video of Studebakers at the '62 Indy 500. The Lark Daytona convertible was the pace car, but they teased with an Avanti, which was just starting production. The blonde waving is Connie Hines of the "Mr. Ed" TV show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c06E9ectN9w

fintail

Ah, Camelot. Nice tires on those Studes too.

uplanderguy

I was alive then, but have barely any memories.

Not to wish myself older, but I think I'd have fit in maybe a bit better in those times, who knows.

fintail

The 60s had a lot of problems, but in terms of cars, it was a golden age.

uplanderguy

Even in our small town, there were many fairly-well-paying factory jobs then. And not all have been replaced by automation, but one plant in particular moved to Mexico shortly after NAFTA. Sigh.

My Stude dealer friend said his Dad chose to build his new building where he did, so he could get the drive-by traffic from the Bessemer and Lake Erie railroad car shops just down the street. As he said, those guys could buy a house and a new car every few years, and without a college degree.

fintail

The gap between executive and worker pay was a lot less then, too, and not nearly the amount of dumbo trickle down policy...hmm.

uplanderguy

Personally, I started seeing the big difference, in my hometown, in the mid-nineties, although by that time I had lived away from there for about fifteen years but still got back often.

fintail

I know the pain, when I was an older child, I lived in an area that really de-industrialized in the 80s, due to the waning logging industry (a combination of dumb trade policies and onerous environmental regs). People there are still trying, but it is kind of sad as it was an amazingly busy and prosperous area a few generations ago.

berri

While it is probably true that automation is taking away more manufacturing jobs than China, there is another aspect that is papered over in Washington - all the tax breaks and legal loopholes that let the Wall Street sponsored venture capitalists buyout and flip companies leaving a line of human carnage in their wake while they reap millions. If this country keeps destroying the middle class, it will eventually take the 2% down with them over time. Example, take a look at the 1920's robber barons after the great depression they helped bring on. Greed and short sightedness tends to bring on self destruction eventually.

fintail

I am sure the current draining of the swamp (LOLOLOOLLL) will take care of those issues. I think automation is as much of a distraction as it is a real thing - it has an impact, but it is not the only force at work here. Asinine tax policy and unfair trade are certainly the keystones. Sadly, I don't see those facing legitimate change, even with the wild promises of late.

Aren't most of those old robber barons still in control of some wealth?

berri

Those who survived, but many very rich sank into poverty during the depression. if no one can buy your products or services, you kind of lose your revenue streams.

Mr_Shiftright

It's really sobering to realize how fragile a country's economy can be. Things can go sour in a few weeks.

fintail

And car companies can effectively be mortally wounded in a couple years, It seems to have happened with Packard, maybe a little slower with Stude, and much faster with some who fell before.

I suspect a lot of money out there is still relatively dynastic - a lot of exceptions, but where there's smoke, you know.

berri

I'm waiting for a thinning of the herd in vehicles and perhaps auto manufacturers and vendors. The US market has become a very crowded place.

fintail

Still kind of surprised Mitsu is still in it. And now with Alfa jumping in, very crowded indeed.

berri

I always thought Mitsu is a big conglomerate and it is reflected in mediocrity.

Mr_Shiftright

I think if someone was able to speed up time from 1946-66, it would have become apparent that companies like Packard and Studebaker and Hudson were doomed from the get-go. You can't be so undercapitalized and keep up with giants like GM and Ford. They spit out models and engines so fast it made the little guys' head spin.

Valiant effort, though, from Studebaker. They died swingin'.

berri

Heck, Chrysler's first brushes with death occurred long before the Lee Iacocca days. As I recall, the problem plagued 57's gave the corporation a survival scare (they leveraged the heck out of themselves to develop and rush those models), as did the bad decision on the downsized 62's after controversial designs for a couple of years prior to that are several examples. By '53 the conservative design was also impacting sales. Then came the big '54/55 sales battles between GM and Ford. Probably why the 50's and 60's Chrysler CEO's tended to be finance guys. I also think the only reason that Rambler was able to carry on in the latter 50's was Romney's big bet on moving their focus to economy models, something the Big 3 weren't focused on at the time (until VW started to grow in the US) coupled with luck from the rather significant '58 recession moving buyers to less expensive and more economical vehicles for awhile. The auto industry is always an interesting history.

Mr_Shiftright

After all is said and done, Studebaker's real problem is that not many people wanted to buy their cars. Outside of South Bend, the appeal was very limited.

Even when they did things right, it went wrong. The '59 Lark was the product of great timing, but within a year the Big Three crushed it. The Avanti was a very unique car, and people loved to look at it, but nobody bought it because they really didn't know what it was supposed to be---and neither did Studebaker. It wasn't a "sports car" and it wasn't a T-Bird and it wasn't a Riviera.

I think the Avanti II people tried to make it a T-Bird, but by that time the T-Bird train had left the station.

Even today, luxury coupes are a pretty hard sell.

uplanderguy

You're a year early Shifty--the '60 Lark sold quite well too. The '61 was down significantly, but in '62 Stude was up and sold over 100K cars for the last time--and it would've been greater had the strike not happened, all about five minutes of washup time. Sheesh. They wanted more than the Big Three got. Well, eighteen months later the workers didn't have to worry about that anymore.

Sadly, it has been noted repeatedly that many, many early Avanti orders were cancelled because of loonnnnggg production delays--same as with the '53 coupes.

Studebaker made the greatest profit in its (then) 107-year history in 1959...no doubt a relief after the $43 million loss of '56, followed by $11 million and $13 million losses the next two years. The auto division also turned a profit in 1960.

Just today on Facebook, people were posting pics of the cool old Newman and Altman parts place in South Bend. The county jail was built on the property probably a decade or so ago. The place was awesome--built in the late 1800's and I remember still being able to see "Studebaker Carriages and Harness" painted between upper-floor windows. There was an old Studebaker big truck parked on the west side of the building, and a trailer with "Studebaker" painted faintly on it. Looked like it was just parked there, and left.

Smithsonian magazine did an article on that business in the late '80's or so. They likened it to an archeological dig, and I'd agree. The parts are far-more organized and catalogued now in the old Studebaker aircraft plant south of town, but the old Newman and Altman on Sample St. was truly stepping into a time warp.

In my small hometown, when the Studebaker dealer hung it up in Dec. '68, the Chrysler-Plymouth-AMC dealer immediately signed up for the Studebaker authorized Parts and Service franchise, and held it though 1972 when Studebaker got out of the parts business.

uplanderguy

I think fans of Studebaker are lucky to have literally a world-class museum. I am not aware of an AMC museum. I understand there's a local Hudson museum or two; one in Indiana and one in Michigan. There are two Packard museums that I'm aware of, one of which is probably only 30 miles from where I live. It's nice, but honestly, it is not the Studebaker National Museum in size, displays, or archives. There is so much archival material from Studebaker, and what was brought in from Packard, that the archives are in their own building across the street from the museum.

Here's the outside of the museum:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/South-bend-studebaker-museum-new.jpg

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, that's right. It was 1961 where sales were 1/2 of 1960! That's quite a beating to take in one year. I guess it took about one year for the compacts from the Big 3 introduced in 1960 to take over the compact market. Studebaker came back a fair bit in 1962 with strong 4-door sales, but it was downhill after that.

Avanti production got all fouled up. Just about everyone who wanted one was put on a waiting list, and well, they mostly didn't wait. They had a lot of fit issues with that glass body. You'd think the people who built the '53 Corvette would know how to do this.

Meanwhile Chevy sold almost 24,000 Corvettes in 1963.

berri

I also think the price of an Avanti versus the possibility of an orphan played into it. Shifty, I actually vaguely seem to remember an article in something like Motor Trend, or maybe the Chicago Tribune about the all new Avanti and remember some comment about what is it exactly. I think maybe Studebaker just didn't have the promo dollars to place and market it after the production delays and other corporate issues. Nice looking car for the times though, although I still am a bit more partial to the more European lines of the Hawk GT.

fintail

If I ever make it to South Bend, I would definitely visit that museum. However, the German maker museums might have spoiled me.

berri

There is an Auburn, Cord, Duesenberg museum in southern Indiana as well, and a Packard one in the Dayton, Ohio area. Escondido, outside of San Diego has a neat postwar car museum, as well as appliances and electronics from the era museum on weekends associated with the Deer Park Winery. But over you way on the left coast is a really good museum in Tacoma (Lemay). Car museums are drying up though, I think insurance and operating expenses are just getting too expensive. Sad

fintail

No doubt it is really tough to operate a museum without manufacturer support. There used to be a nice concours here every year. It eventually moved to LeMay, but now appears to be a thing of the past - it just cost too much, from what I've read.

LeMay seems to be going strong, no doubt because the namesake had plenty of money. Such places with more than one or two dozen cars seem to be uncommon.

uplanderguy

Yeah, Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg is an awesome museum in NE Indiana. At least at some point, it was funded by the Kruse auction family. The Packard museum in Dayton is one of the two I mentioned above. It's nice, but it's not the Studebaker museum.

uplanderguy

From 1983-2005, the Studebaker Museum was in the old Freeman-Spicer dealership building across the street from the Studebaker Administration Building. It was plain, but it had its charms. The new building is great, but to me there is some wasted space for appearance (big vestibule area, etc.). I wished it had one more floor. All that said, for an orphan make, I think it impresses.

I used to lobby our local club to donate to the museum yearly. We can afford to. Most people had blank expressions about it, never having been there. I'm a member of the Studebaker National Museum so support it myself instead. It is one of only three auto museums in the U.S. that is accredited.

There was originally talk of moving the museum into a refurbished Studebaker Administration Building. The funding for that never happened, and the costs were too high to make it climate-controlled in the ways a museum should be. There are still some folks sore about that decision. But hey, it's life, not everybody gets what they want!

uplanderguy

When I first went to South Bend, I thought "well, Studebaker was a small automaker". I was surprised at how many multi-story buildings went on for blocks and blocks, that had been Studebaker buildings. It covered almost the entire southwest corner of the city. It occurred to me then that even a "small" automaker was still a very large company.

The multi-story body building is being refurbished into an information hub of some kind, and the Administration Building is empty but protected from demolition. It is amazingly intact inside--lots of wood, marble, and the "Mural of Transportation" that rings the entire inside of the building is still there and in excellent shape.

uplanderguy

Old Edmunds link about the ten best auto museums in the world.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/top-10-automobile-museums.html

I think the ball was dropped by not having Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg on that list. It's located in their old offices and showroom. Talk about stepping back in time.

Mr_Shiftright

berri said:

There is an Auburn, Cord, Duesenberg museum in southern Indiana as well, and a Packard one in the Dayton, Ohio area. Escondido, outside of San Diego has a neat postwar car museum, as well as appliances and electronics from the era museum on weekends associated with the Deer Park Winery. But over you way on the left coast is a really good museum in Tacoma (Lemay). Car museums are drying up though, I think insurance and operating expenses are just getting too expensive. Sad

Yep the Chrysler museum just closed.

Museums in general face this challenge. They are seeing the need to become much more theatrical and inter-active.

Car museums are, in my experience at least, very static. At best you'll see a dusty diorama or an endless loop video. And these museums are usually run by car people who regard them as their own little fiefdom. I think it would be better if the Board of Directors knew less about cars and more about entertainment and outreach.

Consider how Jay Leno does things on YouTube. But alas, theatrics cost money.

Car museums need more live events for sure, and more "related" exhibits to bring non-car people in to visit. And the cars themselves have to go out into the community.

fintail

Nice that Edmunds ranked the Stude museum so highly. Must be from a NA point of view though, to leave out BMW Welt (like a smaller Autostadt) or the Schlumpf Collection is surprising.

uplanderguy

The last two heads of the Studebaker National Museum came without any experience in automobiles or auto museums at all--just museum degrees and fundraising experience. The one who retired a few months ago was a woman. That said, she did a great job in growing the museum and getting accreditation.

uplanderguy

RIP Zsa Zsa Gabor--here she advertises the '63 Lark Daytona:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F22usdIoJkc

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

The last two heads of the Studebaker National Museum came without any experience in automobiles or auto museums at all--just museum degrees and fundraising experience. The one who retired a few months ago was a woman. That said, she did a great job in growing the museum and getting accreditation.

That's what you want---museum experience, not car experience necessarily. How to raise money, how to stay ahead of all regulations and rules, how to engage the public.