Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy

Found this pic online, of my old Lark Skytop and my brother-in-law's '49 Champion convertible, out at my brother-in-law's garage, attached to his house. Nice building; you can drive around back and pull into the second story of the garage. That's my brother-in-law in the pic.

http://s253.photobucket.com/user/newshooter44/media/Studebakers_side_by_side_0071.jpg.html

I like how you can see my Lark's tinted glass, which it had in all windows. Never noticed before, but looks like my brother-in-law's '49 has a tinted windshield as well.

Also came across this pic, of my daughters helping wash the Lark for the July 4 car show downtown. They are 22 and 19 now, LOL:

http://www.studebakerskytop.com/jtskytop63V5224pic4.jpg

Believe it or not, those are even Studebaker accessory white mudflaps on the car. Found them at a swap meet still in the bag with the part no. on them.

fintail

Nice, I didn't recall that you had year of manufacture plates on that car. I have those on mine, too. Also a great color on that 49, there was a brief period when that color worked, it really works on late 40s cars.

More MB similarities - fintails could also be had with tinted glass. although it is quite rare and maybe not really sold on the NA market. It was mostly green or blue. There were also accessory mudflaps, again a Europe thing.

sda

Did your brother in law influence your enthusiasm around Studebaker or was it the other way around? Great pic. Unfortunately I couldn't get the second pic to open.

uplanderguy

Speaking of museums closing, as we did earlier here, just saw now that the Bob McDorman collection museum in Canal Winchester, Ohio, is closing for good. Bob was a 50-year Chevy dealer who actually was crazy about the product. I'd been there, and while there weren't a ton of cars, it was a beautiful building in a small town, and the building was built to fit in with other buildings in town. Sad to hear this.

http://www.bobmcdormanautomuseum.com/

berri

Hadn't heard of that one. Sorry I missed it. The signs would have particularly appealed to me.

uplanderguy

Did your brother in law influence your enthusiasm around Studebaker or was it the other way around?

He didn't become my brother-in-law 'til about ten years ago, but he ran a monument business in our small hometown so I have known who he was most of my life.

He'd had a '56 Sky Hawk for over thirty years, which is a project. I think I got the "bug" going in him again.

He bought the '49 from western Michigan and picked it up when we were at a South Bend meet.

In that second pic I posted, with my daughters, the car is listing to the right, due to the pad in my turnaround leaning and that the car is partly on cement, partly on grass. But I am still delighted with how the restorer did that car, within my limitations. The paint was particularly pretty/authentic. It had reclining seats, like two of the three Studes I've owned. Funny, my latest, newest one, did not have that option.

Larks look nerdy, but that car had a rumble and a loping idle, not keeping with the look of the car, LOL.

sda

uplanderguy said:

Did your brother in law influence your enthusiasm around Studebaker or was it the other way around?

He didn't become my brother-in-law 'til about ten years ago, but he ran a monument business in our small hometown so I have known who he was most of my life.

He'd had a '56 Sky Hawk for over thirty years, which is a project. I think I got the "bug" going in him again.

He bought the '49 from western Michigan and picked it up when we were at a South Bend meet.

In that second pic I posted, with my daughters, the car is listing to the right, due to the pad in my turnaround leaning and that the car is partly on cement, partly on grass. But I am still delighted with how the restorer did that car, within my limitations. The paint was particularly pretty/authentic. It had reclining seats, like two of the three Studes I've owned. Funny, my latest, newest one, did not have that option.

Larks look nerdy, but that car had a rumble and a loping idle, not keeping with the look of the car, LOL.

I always enjoyed when my daughter wanted to help wash the car. She is 15 now and helping daddy with the car is not on her want list to do. She is lobbying for a car, however. oh boy

uplanderguy

Mentioned a week or so ago here, but Dec. 20, today, it was 53 years ago that the last regular assembly-line Studebaker automobile (i.e., not Avanti) was built in the U.S. Here's a close-up of the front fender badge and the original bias-ply tires are quite visible. The car has 28 miles and is in the Studebaker National Museum:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_UlK0t3FwMY0/TLZDXHYP8zI/AAAAAAAABFo/Flpmb3lD_Gw/s1600/avanti-power.jpg

uplanderguy

From Forbes, Dec. 8, 2016.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/indiana/2016/12/08/once-renowned-car-factory-becomes-hotbed-of-tech-research-lifts-small-city/?sr_source=lift_facebook&nowelcome&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=indiana#9deadd3188ed

berri

I guess that shouldn't really be surprising with Notre Dame down the street

uplanderguy

What is a pleasant surprise to me is that the huge old Studebaker body assembly building is part of the 'campus', although that wasn't specifically mentioned in the article.

uplanderguy

I just saw this for the first time, but it's a couple years old. That brown brick of a '64 Studebaker is amazing. Still owned by its original owner, a retired college music professor. His friend, the driver, was born in 1937 and is a retired high school shop teacher. There are actually people at this race who've refused to go against this guy, merely to save face losing to a Studebaker, LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WmF-w6-EkQ&feature=share

fintail

Love it, the ultimate sleeper.

As MB and Stude are at least related by a marriage, reminds me of this (vintage video quality, sorry):

https://youtu.be/v4M4tRf0eoo

Didn't do as well when he went head to head with a normal dragstrip car:

https://youtu.be/5u7lld9SmnA

berri

A college buddy's dad bought a plain beige Chrysler Newport sedan, but it had a police interceptor big block V8. Evidently Chrysler built a bunch betting on a contract that didn't happen, so they shoved them into consumer cars. A V8 Nova, Camaro, whatever could beat it off the line, but not if you went down the road a bit. As Ronnie Howard so elegantly put it, "eat my dust"

uplanderguy

Not bad at all fin; I've never seen a Benz on a dragstrip before, I can say that for sure!

uplanderguy

My friend and I back in college used to laugh and imitate Ron Howard's nasally, nerdy "Eat My Dust!" remark.

uplanderguy

This car is at Barrett-Jackson. I can't think of a Studebaker I'd want more right now. I typically don't like silver, but with the black top, I do. And this car is dead-to-nuts original/authentic looking, even in the small details, which I appreciate. Interior, too. So many shops/owners think "ah, close enough". This is not an Avanti-powered car, but still...love it. Rarest production run of any year Hawk, since the '64's were only built from August through December, 1963. Hawks didn't make the move to Canada.

I've always heard and read production numbers of 1,767 total, 1,484 of which were U.S. sales.

I'll be curious what she brings. Not the typical black/white/red Hawk, but geez, what a beauty.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1964-STUDEBAKER-GRAN-TOURISMO-203544

fintail

You just bought one car - why not make it two?

uplanderguy

I've already found out that as built, it didn't have the vinyl top, but they were available that year and it adds to the styling I think. Fin, you're one of those guys who'd wave a beer under an alcoholic's nose I bet!

Mr_Shiftright

Without the supercharged engine, these usually hover around $30K if they are very nice. I don't think being a '64 matters much to the market as much as color and equipment.

uplanderguy

Personally, I like the '64 best--I like the denuded decklid and the new wheelcovers, and the instrument panel padding better.

Among Studebaker people, it seems to me that more like the '64. There were about 15.5K GT's built, and the '64's are by-far the rarest. Of course, most people want an R2 if they can find one, and that limits it to '63 and '64. The vinyl top was only available on the '64, and this one was built without it, but I think it adds so much to the looks I won't whine.

fintail

I like to think I encouraged you to get the Cruze, maybe you need to do both, you just don't know it yet

I don't mind the black top either, it's an interesting contrast, and probably not terribly hard to reverse, if one wanted.

uplanderguy said:

I've already found out that as built, it didn't have the vinyl top, but they were available that year and it adds to the styling I think. Fin, you're one of those guys who'd wave a beer under an alcoholic's nose I bet!

sda

That '64 is sweet. Nicely equipped, great color combo. The red plaid interior is sharp and tastefully done.

uplanderguy

That upholstery material, which looks original or authentic at least to me, was not really plaid but I can see where you'd think so. There was a metallic thread running through it every so often. Most Hawks of this period had vinyl interior, but I like the cloth.

isellhondas

uplanderguy said:

I just saw this for the first time, but it's a couple years old. That brown brick of a '64 Studebaker is amazing. Still owned by its original owner, a retired college music professor. His friend, the driver, was born in 1937 and is a retired high school shop teacher. There are actually people at this race who've refused to go against this guy, merely to save face losing to a Studebaker, LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WmF-w6-EkQ&feature=share

I never EVER thought at ANY kind of a Studebaker could beat a Yenko Nova but seeing is believing!

A street legal (?) Studebaker doing the quarter in the 12's? WOW!

uplanderguy

That R3 engine was conservatively rated at the time at 335 hp and was over $1,000 optionally. Only ten were installed on the line at South Bend by Studebaker, but they also sold them as complete crate engines afterwards. The cost and the fact that South Bend production ended only three or four months after the R3 was introduced, limited its sales of course. While the Yenko was a dealer project, the R3 engine is shown/discussed in the regular '64 Studebaker sales brochure.

uplanderguy

That '64 silver Gran Turismo Hawk sold for $33K.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1964-STUDEBAKER-GRAN-TOURISMO-203544

I believe a darker color would've sold for higher, but I just love the authenticity/accuracy of the car.

Mr_Shiftright

Well with 15% in commission, that would put my estimate right on the money. Thanks for the feedback.

uplanderguy

Is 15% what the buyer's commission is at B-J? Sheesh, that's a lot.

That car was shipped new to Iowa. I'd love to know the story of it.

Mr_Shiftright

Barrett-Jackson earns their money via an 8% seller's premium charged to the seller (consignor) when their car is sold. They also collect a 10% bidder's premium from the buyer once the car sells. For an absentee buyer, it's 12%.

So the "high prices" we see at B-J are actually inflated at least 18%--20%, plus you add for wine and impulsive bidding.

If we looked soberly at say at $30K B-J result, we could safely presume that you could probably buy the same car through Hemmings or other Internet sites for the low to mid $20Ks.

Sometimes cars are bought back by their owners, because they didn't like the "No Reserve" bidding results---an owner isn't going to let his $30,000 car sell for $7,200.

How much the owner eats on a buyback? I'm not exactly sure what they work out with B-J on that. It's not a subject openly discussed.

Then there are also "chandelier" bids on reserve cars--that is phony bids that are like shill bids.

uplanderguy

I was surprised that that Hawk was a no-reserve auction.

That '70 Toronado we discussed that sold for $6,600 at B-J this year seems especially a bargain with the buyer's fee figured in.

Mr_Shiftright

Sometimes at B-J you can catch everyone sleeping, like late at night or first thing in the morning.

Most (almost all) B-J auctions are no reserve.

uplanderguy

An acquaintance with a black '62 Gran Turismo Hawk just pointed out a small 'nit' that I missed on the silver Hawk--the chevron on the interior driver's door is apparently installed upside-down as it is not red-white-blue but blue-white-red. Not a big thing, of course, but seems like that should've been an easy thing to figure out.

uplanderguy

'57 Golden Hawks have continued to do very well at auction. This one went for $95,700 yesterday at B-J:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1957-STUDEBAKER-GOLDEN-HAWK-199547

There is no denying that this is a beautiful example, but I like that '64 much better, most likely a function of my age.

I have raffle tickets for a nice (not like this one) '57 Golden Hawk to be given away in March. I'd probably sell it and try and find a nice Gran Turismo or '64 Daytona hardtop. Pretty sure I won't have to worry about that, though!

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't want to push around an old '57 Hawk either. The later ones drive much better.

uplanderguy

Nice factory pic of a Laguna Blue '64 Daytona hardtop, with one of the high-performance engines since it has the oval front-fender badge. I'd like to find a car exactly like it.

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000keIgD2diCPs/fit=1000x750/1964-Daytona-Hardtop-2.jpg

Photo taken at the Studebaker Proving Ground on U.S. 2, about fifteen miles west of South Bend. It's still there and utilized by Navistar now. Photo probably from late summer 1963.

uplanderguy

Those cars were marketed, and priced, with the Chevy II Nova Sport Coupe, Falcon Futura hardtop, and Valiant V-200 hardtop, but to my eyes the Stude looks bigger. I think that might be due to the 15-inch wheels and large (for the time) wheel openings.

fintail

That's definitely the color I'd choose. I think it looks bigger than a Falcon or Chevy II, too.

berri

They were a bit taller as I recall which could affect perception, but I believe they were overall a little larger - at least on the inside. The hood and trunk were maybe a bit abbreviated from some of the competitors you mentioned. That blue is sharp. Why can't we have colors like that today?

uplanderguy

When I was in middle school (very early '70's), a schoolteacher had a four-door '64 Cruiser in this color, and the car was always cleaned up and looked nice, even though it was older by that time. It had bucket seats and a floor-shift automatic; first four-door car I saw so equipped. So, today, when I see a '64 Stude in this light blue color it always does something for me. I've met a guy from Illinois who has a car that looks just like the one in the factory photo except it doesn't have Avanti power, and at the current moment he has it on aftermarket wheels and tires, but I always ask him to let me know if he wants to sell it. He's completely rebuilt the engine so I probably couldn't afford it anyway though, LOL.

RE: Taller--I think they were taller, but the '64 was less noticeable than earlier Larks this way. But you're right. I'm so used to being around Larks that when I see a '64 Falcon hardtop, to me the roof looks too small for the body. But I realize, others might think the opposite of a Lark hardtop.

uplanderguy

BTW, the doors and rear quarters on that '64 Daytona will interchange with a '63--same part nos.--which is real sleight-of-hand I think. To me, a '63 and a '64 look nothing alike. I also like the '63's and had one; I think they have their charms too although forced to choose would pick a '64. Couldn't get the sunroof in the '64 though.

fintail

On another forum I visit, someone posted a pretty blue 63 Cruiser

berri

Some design similarities with your Fintail perhaps?

fintail

Yep those are the ones that uplanderguy likens to MBs, I think. There's definitely a similarity with the grille and side profile.

uplanderguy

That is a beautiful car IMHO. It has that year's Hawk's wheelcovers, without the band of white around them. Lots of '63 owners seem to not like those wheelcovers with the white on them.

Too bad there's not a better photo of the seating in that car, as I can tell it has the optional broadcloth interior, which to me was drop-dead luxurious and looked like something out of a Cadillac Fleetwood, unheard-of in that size.

My elderly mother could climb right into my '63; no dropping down, no climbing up. It really did have excellent headroom and chair-high seating. Conversely, picking her up for a ride in my old van or Cavalier required my actually lifting her into the van or picking her up to get her out of the Cavalier.

uplanderguy

In four-doors, I actually like the '63 better than the '64; I like the cut of the upper rear-door better in the sedans. I always liked this factory photo, taken out at the Proving Ground as I can tell by the upright brick thingy, which are still there.

http://momentcar.com/images/studebaker-cruiser-1963-5.jpg

"Formal" is not a word normally associated with early-sixties domestic compacts, but I think the word could be applied to the '63 Cruiser.

More and more, I'm liking the factory photos showing cars with no outside mirrors (they were optional), although I know that's not practical for today's driving and probably wasn't even then.

sda

A lot of what we take for granted was indeed optional on older cars. My '62 Ford Galaxie and mom's '63 Olds Dynamic 88 did not have backup lights or a driver's door review mirror, and no seat belts. Both had one speed electric wipers, at least they weren't vacuum, and no washers. Even a heater was optional as mom's Olds had factory a/c and no heater-defrost. The car had been special ordered by a elderly man in St Petersburg, Fl, thus the heater delete. Mom had seat belts installed in the front seat of her Olds and if we (kids) sat up front we had to buckle up. Good early training.

uplanderguy

All my Studebakers ('63, '64, and '66) had electric two-speed wipers, and factory seat belts. But the heater ("Climatizer", LOL) was optional. I think AMC used vacuum wipers as late as maybe 1970? I'd have to check to see.

sda

There is a neat video posted by driver100 about the '64 Avanti in Edmunds Members--Cars and Conversations

uplanderguy

Thanks, I'll check that out!